I've never built a Glissa deck, an artifact deck, or even a golgari deck but I've had her in mind as a potential GB commander if I ever wanted to build golgari several times becaucse of how sweet of a blocker she is. I love Birthing Pod as a card so I'm always happy to se it played ^^ My lists have been more combo-y when I've played the card though.
Some thoughts though, although keep in mind I've never played pure golgari in EDH haha (I've played BUG a bunch though, a bit of Abzan as well)
Why no signet? It seems more reliable than Fellwar Stone for your colours.
Assassin's Trophy, Abrupt Decay et al seems good here as they not only deal with problem permanents but can also trigger Glissa. Toxic Deluge as well, but Trophy and Deluge might be out of your budget
Any reasons not to run dorks? You have a lot of 3 drops that seems awesome to play T2, Wood Elves, Phyrexian Arena, Necropotence, Birthing Pod, Glissa etc
It seems like a nice deck though even if I could personally never play a deck with only 3 instants haha
My list is in this thread as I was discussing our slightly different game plans in Glissa midrange.
I go a little lower with my salvaging station package rather than a ramp package but then I am leaning on army in a can artifact creatures to try to build board presence with very little cards (then recur them).
I also have very few instants and that lack of instants is definitely an issue when facing combo decks, I think this is a good deck for grindy/low combo meta's you know battlecruiser magic. Occasionally when my meta got more comboy I would play Jester's cap and I play pithing needle as a hate card and there is always the option of stax.
This is a really cool take on a commander that is otherwise pretty linear in terms of building.
I'll go the opposite route and suggest a few cuts. Apologies if you've already discussed one or more of these elsewhere.
- Deathsprout: Ramping on four needs to be extra special to warrant a spot, and removal needs to be flexible enough to target multipletypes of problems.
- End-Raze Forerunners: not Craterhoof Behemoth?
- Lord of Extinction: it's a big body, but it has no evasion or special abilities on it, and I don't see anything like a Warstorm Surge that gives you a benefit for just sheer size.
- Forbidden Orchard: You play green, so you have access to the best fixing there is. Do you really need to give someone else a body just to fix your mana? Where's the Overgrown Tomb? It just got reprinted, so money shouldn't be much of an issue.
- Fellwar Stone: Normally I wouldn't run artifacts in a green deck, but Glissa is the clear exception. That being said, I'd rather guarantee my colors with Golgari Signet, Charcoal Diamond, Moss Diamond, or Golgari Locket.
- Journey to Eternity: It just feels like too many things have to go right for it to work. You need the target creature to survive its casting, then you need the creature to die (not bounce or exile), then you need to spend five more mana to get back your own thing (not someone else's).
Have you considered Grave Pact effects? If nothing else, every time you Pod you kill some creatures and get back some artifacts which seems pretty good.
I did have Dictate of Erebos in here, but I don't have a copy of Grave Pact and kind of don't like them here. Dictate was always the card in hand that I didn't see the need to cast, so I don't really want to go down this route.
Why no signet? It seems more reliable than Fellwar Stone for your colours.
Assassin's Trophy, Abrupt Decay et al seems good here as they not only deal with problem permanents but can also trigger Glissa. Toxic Deluge as well, but Trophy and Deluge might be out of your budget
Any reasons not to run dorks? You have a lot of 3 drops that seems awesome to play T2, Wood Elves, Phyrexian Arena, Necropotence, Birthing Pod, Glissa etc
Valid point, signet is probably better here. Trophy and Deluge are definitely out of budget (I keep saying this, I could use like 4 copies of deluge, it really, really needs a reprint). Abrupt Decay I can see squeezing in though.
Dorks, I'm kind of just not a fan of. I'd prefer rocks where I can. I'm open to consideration though, so if you have a rationale for including some I'm open to convincing.
I go a little lower with my salvaging station package rather than a ramp package but then I am leaning on army in a can artifact creatures to try to build board presence with very little cards (then recur them).
I also have very few instants and that lack of instants is definitely an issue when facing combo decks, I think this is a good deck for grindy/low combo meta's you know battlecruiser magic. Occasionally when my meta got more comboy I would play Jester's cap and I play pithing needle as a hate card and there is always the option of stax.
I feel like I need to reconsider Salvaging Station. There's not much space to squeeze it in, but I do wonder if it's worth looking at trying to wedge it in there. The eggs I was running kinda sucked, but the spellbombs seem reasonable.
Regarding combo, yeah, the deck does kind of fold to it unless I have specific answers in hand - I have a couple of options but they are pretty specific. Stax is an option, and Smokestack is in here for that reason, although it's a definitely a slow burner.
I'll go the opposite route and suggest a few cuts. Apologies if you've already discussed one or more of these elsewhere.
Deathsprout - yeah, it's in a flex spot, and I get how trying to be everything to everyone is not necessarily a good thing. Ideally this could be Decay or Trophy. End-Raze Forerunners - there's a huuuuuge difference in price between this and Craterhoof. I know there's a reason for that, but honestly, I'm tired of seeing Craterhoof. It's been done, and I just don't need to see it again, let alone play it. Forbidden Orchard has been decent, it's less about fixing mana than the body on the other side of the field. A lot of the time when Glissa lands people just hold back their creatures and aim at her, so this is a way I can make sure to get value from her. Overgrown Tomb I definitely want in here, I just can't get a copy from my LGS, they're constantly sold out at present. At any rate, it'll be going in in addition to Orchard, not replacing it most likely. Lord of Extinction - yeah, this guy is lovely, but I've been thinking much the same. I don't have a lot of ways to give him evasion or make him blow up for value, so I've been side eyeing him of late. Journey to Eternity - I honestly haven't had much of a chance to trial it, but I get where you're going with this. There's a lot of hoops to eke value from it.
Thanks for all the comments thus far, keep em coming if there's more - nice to hear some praise for the deck despite my trepidation for it of late, too
Dorks, I'm kind of just not a fan of. I'd prefer rocks where I can. I'm open to consideration though, so if you have a rationale for including some I'm open to convincing.
My rationale is that they come down turn 1, allowing some sweet turn 2 plays like Arena, Pod (which also sacrifices them), Deed or O-Stone if you want to scare the board to play out their stuff, Wood Elves to keep the ramp going, then later they help you get death triggers for your stuff when you don't need the mana. Elves of Deep Shadow both fixes your mana while being money-wise cheap, so for you it's the highest value (birds is better, but costs more). The one's that don't fix aren't of as high value to you unless you want to lower your curve (in which case they become great as you can pod chain off them or get ahead early, but you curve is a bit too high for them to be slam-dunks right now) but I'd recommend at least testing an Elves of Deep Shadow to see how you like it as I think both the best case scenario (having one turn 1) and the worst case scenario (getting one where the mana is unimportant), they provide you more than a rock with the downside of dying to boardwipes.
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UG Arixmethes Combo UGR Wanderer UGB Tasigur Control URB Jeleva Storm RW Gisela Control
This first part is not really a suggestion, in the sense that I presume that your deck fits well into your meta and this might make it too much of an outlier, but I imagine that the deck would be more powerfull if it was more focused. Like, I think the deck is aiming for a sac->reanimate style loop.
Phyrexian Obliterator, Lord of Extinction and Verdurous Gearhulk does not do much for that. Also, the deck would be stronger with a lower curve (like avg cmc of non-lands looks like it is 4-5. 2 point something is much more powerfull in my experience).
Things that would improve the deck would be things like Grim Haruspex, Midnight Reaper and other things that works well with your main loop.
I think adding more mass reanimate would also work great in your deck. Things like twilight's call would likely do wonders.
I can see maybe squeezing Elves of Deep Shadow in. Worst coming to worst if I don’t need them I can feed them to the Pod.
This first part is not really a suggestion, in the sense that I presume that your deck fits well into your meta and this might make it too much of an outlier, but I imagine that the deck would be more powerfull if it was more focused. Like, I think the deck is aiming for a sac->reanimate style loop.
Phyrexian Obliterator, Lord of Extinction and Verdurous Gearhulk does not do much for that. Also, the deck would be stronger with a lower curve (like avg cmc of non-lands looks like it is 4-5. 2 point something is much more powerfull in my experience).
I mean yeah, that’s part of what I’ve struggled with. Pod is strong, and I’ve got some pieces here to benefit from sac, but honestly it’s more than a little tough to make enough space for everything. Extinction and Gearhulk I totally get. Obliterator has been a reasonable value early drop and it’s done well in combat. It forces the dilemma of blocking versus taking damage and what’s more valuable, and I’ve found that people often make the wrong choice when faced with a choice of two bad outcomes.
Things that would improve the deck would be things like Grim Haruspex, Midnight Reaper and other things that works well with your main loop.
I think adding more mass reanimate would also work great in your deck. Things like twilight's call would likely do wonders.
Kagemaro, first to suffer would also be great as more mass removal that is easy(-ish) to get back.
You have a lot of mana symbols, ecspecially black, so I think Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and to a lesser extend Gray Merchant of Asphodel would work well.
Black market may fit well with your deck.
Bolas's Citadel is always great (might have been better with slightly more life gain and a lower curve though).
Haruspex could pull weight for sure. Mass reanimate I love in any deck. I’ve thought about adding Finale of Eternity in here. It gives me Glissa triggers, and in order to hit ten I either am likely saccing treasures (plays nicely with Mazirek) or saccing creatures to Altar, which will then hit the field again anyway. It’s not a perfect mass reanimation spell but it could do things.
I’d actually love a copy of Kagemaro - it’s one of those oldie cards that’s just a little tough to track down despite not being overly pricey.
Nykthos needs a reprint before I’ll puck it up. It’s not drastically overcosted, but it is the sort of card that (like deluge) I could use 4 copies of. Gary I used to run here actually. Surprisingly he was a little underwhelming. I think if I added him again I’d want to be adding several reanimation spells, single and mass to really spam his ability.
Citadel is nuts. There’s very few decks it wouldn’t be excellent. My one copy is already dedicated, but I get where you’re going with it. I think part of the reason your seeing a higher than normal curve here is Pod, btw - it’s important to have a chain in a deck that’s run it, and Scrap Trawler is the same, too. Pod very much more so though - it’s just important to remember that I’m usually not planning on hard casting.
I think part of the reason your seeing a higher than normal curve here is Pod, btw - it’s important to have a chain in a deck that’s run it, and Scrap Trawler is the same, too. Pod very much more so though - it’s just important to remember that I’m usually not planning on hard casting.
But, you have basically no tutors, many expensive cards and only pod to cheat them in (I might miss a card I guess). Thus, I imagine you typically draw the expensive cards and are stuck casting them, even if it is not what you want. I think like 2 of the different casting costs should be enough for pod really (I honestly typically run pod with a curve ending at 5. If the cards are good enough you do not really need more)
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
But, you have basically no tutors, many expensive cards and only pod to cheat them in (I might miss a card I guess). Thus, I imagine you typically draw the expensive cards and are stuck casting them, even if it is not what you want. I think like 2 of the different casting costs should be enough for pod really (I honestly typically run pod with a curve ending at 5. If the cards are good enough you do not really need more)
You don't have to, but do you want to? The 6-drops are like my favorite part of this.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
You don't have to, but do you want to? The 6-drops are like my favorite part of this.
Well, as I said, I believe it makes you more likely to win. Winning is not everything, so I cant really fault anyone for aiming for something slse. If you like something in particular, then go for it.
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
You don't have to, but do you want to? The 6-drops are like my favorite part of this.
Well, as I said, I believe it makes you more likely to win. Winning is not everything, so I cant really fault anyone for aiming for something slse. If you like something in particular, then go for it.
I mean I get what you’re saying, but cutting off at 5 means a significant drop of some of the stronger cards in the deck. Honestly, I haven’t really ever noticed being stuck with these in hand either. There’s enough early ramp, strong draw options and rocks in the deck that mana generally isn’t an issue. Granted, I don’t always see Pod, but Pod is the highway, and there’s always options to take the backroads. There’s no way I put all my eggs in one basket, especially when it’s a card that isn’t in the Command zone.
Fair enough. (That said, to be clear, I was not suggesting to lower the curve to 5, just mentioning it as something that was necessary for me in my meta, which is likely somewhat faster than yours).
If you want a more expensive card (mana wise at least) that is great, have you tried protean hulk? That card is very powerfull, even without an infinite combo. Note that the card recently-ish got unbanned.
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
Looking at this deck it feels almost plodding to me. I personally bask in mana-inefficiency. I really enjoy slowly looping stuff for card advantage, but at some point you gotta kill the table. I struggle to see how casting a six drop a turn and then attacking people with them (especially since most don't have any evasion) is actually going to get there. If that's good enough for your meta then awesome, but it wouldn't stand up the the hate that I usually see. I guess my best example is that I don't think that this deck can beat basically any maelstrom wanderer deck.
Lord of Extinction goes well with Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. He might also help you actually kill the table a little faster. Plus if you have extra lands around he can recur himself nicely for pod and such.
Do Torment of Hailfire and Marionette Master actually do enough? You can generate some additional mana for Torment, but it doesn't look like a back breakingly large amount. With Marionette Master it looks like you only sacrifice one or two creatures a turn. Is 4 damage really enough? Is the token making really that helpful either? There's only a small handful of token synergies.
Fair enough. (That said, to be clear, I was not suggesting to lower the curve to 5, just mentioning it as something that was necessary for me in my meta, which is likely somewhat faster than yours).
If you want a more expensive card (mana wise at least) that is great, have you tried protean hulk? That card is very powerfull, even without an infinite combo. Note that the card recently-ish got unbanned.
I had thought about this as a possible add tbh. It’s ridiculously good value.
Looking at this deck it feels almost plodding to me. I personally bask in mana-inefficiency. I really enjoy slowly looping stuff for card advantage, but at some point you gotta kill the table. I struggle to see how casting a six drop a turn and then attacking people with them (especially since most don't have any evasion) is actually going to get there. If that's good enough for your meta then awesome, but it wouldn't stand up the the hate that I usually see. I guess my best example is that I don't think that this deck can beat basically any maelstrom wanderer deck.
Thedeck does have issues closing from time to time, yes. That being said I feel like comparison to Wanderer is maybe a little tough; guy doesn’t even need to resolve to put value on the table. I get it though, I see what you’re saying.
Demonic tutor is like $50. I know how good it is but damn. Besides, I prefer not to run hard tutors. If it’s a tutor attached to something I can otherwise use, such as Sidisi, well and good, but I’d prefer to run something that holds its own intrinsic value over and above what it can fetch. It’s just how I build, I know it’s restrictive.
I kinda like these. I’ve got a spare resurgent kicking about, could be something to try out.
Lord of Extinction goes well with Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. He might also help you actually kill the table a little faster. Plus if you have extra lands around he can recur himself nicely for pod and such.
Jarad is nasty - he could be a great add.
Do Torment of Hailfire and Marionette Master actually do enough? You can generate some additional mana for Torment, but it doesn't look like a back breakingly large amount. With Marionette Master it looks like you only sacrifice one or two creatures a turn. Is 4 damage really enough? Is the token making really that helpful either? There's only a small handful of token synergies.
Torment I haven’t had a huge chance to trial, it’s a relatively new addition. That being said it works nicely with Mazirek, and it really doesn’t take a ton for it to be a back breaking spell.
Marionette, I’m not sure if you’re reading right. It triggers for every artifact of mine that dies. 9/10 I don’t want the servos, so I pump her, sac some eggs/tokens/treasures and off someone. Again, plays nicely with Mazirek, in fact gets incrementally better with Mazirek. It would be better with more eggs and some more extensive sac synergy though. Trust me, in the right place Marionette puts in work.
Apologies if this sounds like I’m clapping back - I do appreciate the feedback, and in terms of improving a deck it can be a painful process!
"I would die twice for you if I could" sounds poetically loyal, but I don't think that's really what the Orzhov do. A deck full of dies triggers that each trigger twice, where 3 Grave Pacts are child's play when you can effectively have 6. Given some of the graveyard recursion from the most recent set, this deck could likely use some of the same advice my Olivia deck got, but honestly, where else are you going to find someone playing Reliquary Monk?
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
The deck is pretty solid. Maybe I'd want more sac outlets personally, but even in my build closest to this one I'm a little bit short on them. You care less about what the opponent is trying to do to overpower you when you can continuously keep the board clear of creatures until someone deals with your stuff.
Agreed...looks like a pretty solid list for the most part.
The only card that stuck out at first glance was Jet Medallion, only because it’s a two-color deck that doesn’t seem to have a huge curve. I'd probably rather have a MirageDiamond or an Orzhov Locket, but I’m honestly just nitpicking as this sort of deck practically builds itself.
I was going to mention Yosei, but read in the thread that it was cut due to power level concerns.
One pro for including Academy Rector would be getting Martyr's Bond cheated into play. Then when you sac your artifact creatures, anyone without a creature will have to sacrifice a mana rock or something.
but honestly, where else are you going to find someone playing Reliquary Monk?
I added in the Monk based off of a suggestion in the thread and it has actually been very good in this build for a number of situations. I still remember using it to blow up my own Mana Crypt to help stay alive. In that game, I still didn't win but having that option was interesting. Overall it has been very good (much better than I thought it would be).
The deck is pretty solid. Maybe I'd want more sac outlets personally, but even in my build closest to this one I'm a little bit short on them. You care less about what the opponent is trying to do to overpower you when you can continuously keep the board clear of creatures until someone deals with your stuff.
I currently have 8 sac outlets (Teysa, Orzhov Scion is questionable to be included in this list since she is kind of restrictive) and I sometimes think this is too few. However, for the most part, it has worked well and I don't see any other sac outlets I actually want (though, see below). There are a couple I have thought about (like Bloodthrone Vampire) but overall they have felt like they don't do enough. You are right that the deck currently often doesn't care too much about what an opponent is doing as the deck is geared towards keeping the board clear one way or another.
Agreed...looks like a pretty solid list for the most part.
The only card that stuck out at first glance was Jet Medallion, only because it’s a two-color deck that doesn’t seem to have a huge curve. I'd probably rather have a MirageDiamond or an Orzhov Locket, but I’m honestly just nitpicking as this sort of deck practically builds itself.
I was hesitant to include Jet Medallion to begin with but the deck is primarily black and it has mattered a number of times where I wanted to cast more than 1 black spell for the turn so I got a discount on both. While it is unfortunate it doesn't help my white spells, I think the boost it gives currently is worth allowing it to remain.
My main issue with Spawning Pit is that it costs mana to get use out of it (for the second ability). It is one of the big reasons I don't like Ayli in this list as much (though she has managed to stick around for now). However, with that being said, I can't come up with a good reason not to include Spawning Pit other than it is not a creature so it doesn't work as well with some other cards. Being a free sac outlet might be enough. I am more concerned over how often I will actually use the second ability, but "sac 2 creatures, pay 1 mana, sac the Spawn token, clear your board" seems like a pretty fun play. There are a couple flex slots in the deck that I might be able to slot this in to see what it can do.
I have not done anything with Liliana yet as her Foil is more than I want to spend on it. I do agree that she should be given a try, though 6 mana might be a bit much. But, her ultimate just wins games so I think there is good enough reason to try her out. I might try to find a spot for her and just proxy her up for now.
I had Elenda at one time and she was actually very underwhelming (which was kind of surprising). In the end, is was a lot to try to expect her ability to do a lot since she was often dying (being sacrificed) before I could get a lot of value out of her. I was usually only getting 1-4 tokens out of her and I felt like that wasn't enough to warrant keeping her around.
Here's my Shirei Aristocrats deck. Mine's a little more of a combo-y go wide -> Zulaport Cutthroat to kill the table. It's more about looping my own creatures for personal value than as removal but it's got a ton of creatures with triggered abilities on death that you might find worthwhile to try out.
I agree that the Altars probably are the best but I want something more than "just" mana. While the mana from either is likely pretty good I just prefer my sac outlets be creature based. I like the suggestion above regarding Spawning Pit because it creates creatures which is nice to keep things going.
I try to avoid outlets that require mana costs (Ayli is the only one I have I think) and Attrition isn't that great in the deck since I generally have other ways to keep the board clear.
The Plunderer is interesting and I probably should give it a try. 4 mana isn't the worst here and it can help ramp me pretty well. I like the idea of it letting me go off anyway. Black Market is in the same boat but a) is 5 mana and b) is not a creature. Since I am not running any big X spells, I don't feel that the extra mana will always be that useful since I have to use it at a specific time.
Revel in Riches is actually a card I picked up and then did not include because it is probably *too* good. I already don't really like "I win" buttons like this and Teysa makes it too easy. For anyone without my reluctance for these types of cards, this is probably an easy include
I had thought about trying Pontiff when it was spoiled but, again, the mana cost ruins it for me. I am generally playing pretty tight where I don't have a lot of extra mana a lot of the time so needing mana to sac things has been a disappointment. At least one game, I had Ayli as my only sac outlet for the majority of the game and it never felt very smooth and I could tell the deck was just going slow or not performing as well as I wanted simply because I couldn't sac things when I wanted.
I like Butcher over Bond simply because it is a creature. Maybe the deck wants the 4th Grave Pact effect but I have been happy with where it is so far. I may eventually try finding a spot for the Bond but I don't believe a swap is what will happen.
Academy Rector *is* great but it gets me 1 of 2 cards basically all the time. As a personal preference, I don't generally like tutors when they are there solely as an extra copy of another card. And since Rector will always get me either Grave Pact or Dictate (most likely) it feels like it will cause games to be repetitive. And, while not a huge deal, it doesn't work with Teysa to get me 2 Enchantments.
The deck looks really strong, and a blast to play. I really don't have a ton to offer, other than a couple of tiny bits I can scrape up.
It's not perfect, but Sadistic Hypnotist is a really nasty sacrifice trigger. It might trigger the feel-bads, but it's a powerful ability. Altar of Dementia could also be cool - a little different from the traditional altars in that it doesn't give you mana, but it can fill your yard or shred libraries for you.
I'm also going to give a second for Pitiless Plunderer. It's decent acceleration, and I can see it putting in good work here. To me, it deserves a slot over Black Market, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, as you said, you want creatures. Secondly, if Market blows up you lose all of your charge counters and end up with nothing. Third, even if this doesn't happen, the mana is colour specific and you can only use it at one point in your turn.
I guess it's a little redundant in that you have Thrilling Encore, but if you're after a second iteration of this effect, Faith's Reward is a thing.
Some thoughts though, although keep in mind I've never played pure golgari in EDH haha (I've played BUG a bunch though, a bit of Abzan as well)
Why no signet? It seems more reliable than Fellwar Stone for your colours.
Assassin's Trophy, Abrupt Decay et al seems good here as they not only deal with problem permanents but can also trigger Glissa. Toxic Deluge as well, but Trophy and Deluge might be out of your budget
Any reasons not to run dorks? You have a lot of 3 drops that seems awesome to play T2, Wood Elves, Phyrexian Arena, Necropotence, Birthing Pod, Glissa etc
It seems like a nice deck though even if I could personally never play a deck with only 3 instants haha
UGR Wanderer
UGB Tasigur Control
URB Jeleva Storm
RW Gisela Control
I go a little lower with my salvaging station package rather than a ramp package but then I am leaning on army in a can artifact creatures to try to build board presence with very little cards (then recur them).
I also have very few instants and that lack of instants is definitely an issue when facing combo decks, I think this is a good deck for grindy/low combo meta's you know battlecruiser magic. Occasionally when my meta got more comboy I would play Jester's cap and I play pithing needle as a hate card and there is always the option of stax.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I'll go the opposite route and suggest a few cuts. Apologies if you've already discussed one or more of these elsewhere.
- End-Raze Forerunners: not Craterhoof Behemoth?
- Lord of Extinction: it's a big body, but it has no evasion or special abilities on it, and I don't see anything like a Warstorm Surge that gives you a benefit for just sheer size.
- Forbidden Orchard: You play green, so you have access to the best fixing there is. Do you really need to give someone else a body just to fix your mana? Where's the Overgrown Tomb? It just got reprinted, so money shouldn't be much of an issue.
- Fellwar Stone: Normally I wouldn't run artifacts in a green deck, but Glissa is the clear exception. That being said, I'd rather guarantee my colors with Golgari Signet, Charcoal Diamond, Moss Diamond, or Golgari Locket.
- Journey to Eternity: It just feels like too many things have to go right for it to work. You need the target creature to survive its casting, then you need the creature to die (not bounce or exile), then you need to spend five more mana to get back your own thing (not someone else's).
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
I did have Dictate of Erebos in here, but I don't have a copy of Grave Pact and kind of don't like them here. Dictate was always the card in hand that I didn't see the need to cast, so I don't really want to go down this route.
Valid point, signet is probably better here. Trophy and Deluge are definitely out of budget (I keep saying this, I could use like 4 copies of deluge, it really, really needs a reprint). Abrupt Decay I can see squeezing in though.
Dorks, I'm kind of just not a fan of. I'd prefer rocks where I can. I'm open to consideration though, so if you have a rationale for including some I'm open to convincing.
I feel like I need to reconsider Salvaging Station. There's not much space to squeeze it in, but I do wonder if it's worth looking at trying to wedge it in there. The eggs I was running kinda sucked, but the spellbombs seem reasonable.
Regarding combo, yeah, the deck does kind of fold to it unless I have specific answers in hand - I have a couple of options but they are pretty specific. Stax is an option, and Smokestack is in here for that reason, although it's a definitely a slow burner.
Deathsprout - yeah, it's in a flex spot, and I get how trying to be everything to everyone is not necessarily a good thing. Ideally this could be Decay or Trophy.
End-Raze Forerunners - there's a huuuuuge difference in price between this and Craterhoof. I know there's a reason for that, but honestly, I'm tired of seeing Craterhoof. It's been done, and I just don't need to see it again, let alone play it.
Forbidden Orchard has been decent, it's less about fixing mana than the body on the other side of the field. A lot of the time when Glissa lands people just hold back their creatures and aim at her, so this is a way I can make sure to get value from her. Overgrown Tomb I definitely want in here, I just can't get a copy from my LGS, they're constantly sold out at present. At any rate, it'll be going in in addition to Orchard, not replacing it most likely.
Lord of Extinction - yeah, this guy is lovely, but I've been thinking much the same. I don't have a lot of ways to give him evasion or make him blow up for value, so I've been side eyeing him of late.
Journey to Eternity - I honestly haven't had much of a chance to trial it, but I get where you're going with this. There's a lot of hoops to eke value from it.
Thanks for all the comments thus far, keep em coming if there's more - nice to hear some praise for the deck despite my trepidation for it of late, too
My rationale is that they come down turn 1, allowing some sweet turn 2 plays like Arena, Pod (which also sacrifices them), Deed or O-Stone if you want to scare the board to play out their stuff, Wood Elves to keep the ramp going, then later they help you get death triggers for your stuff when you don't need the mana. Elves of Deep Shadow both fixes your mana while being money-wise cheap, so for you it's the highest value (birds is better, but costs more). The one's that don't fix aren't of as high value to you unless you want to lower your curve (in which case they become great as you can pod chain off them or get ahead early, but you curve is a bit too high for them to be slam-dunks right now) but I'd recommend at least testing an Elves of Deep Shadow to see how you like it as I think both the best case scenario (having one turn 1) and the worst case scenario (getting one where the mana is unimportant), they provide you more than a rock with the downside of dying to boardwipes.
UGR Wanderer
UGB Tasigur Control
URB Jeleva Storm
RW Gisela Control
Phyrexian Obliterator, Lord of Extinction and Verdurous Gearhulk does not do much for that. Also, the deck would be stronger with a lower curve (like avg cmc of non-lands looks like it is 4-5. 2 point something is much more powerfull in my experience).
Things that would improve the deck would be things like Grim Haruspex, Midnight Reaper and other things that works well with your main loop.
I think adding more mass reanimate would also work great in your deck. Things like twilight's call would likely do wonders.
Kagemaro, first to suffer would also be great as more mass removal that is easy(-ish) to get back.
You have a lot of mana symbols, ecspecially black, so I think Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and to a lesser extend Gray Merchant of Asphodel would work well.
Black market may fit well with your deck.
Bolas's Citadel is always great (might have been better with slightly more life gain and a lower curve though).
I mean yeah, that’s part of what I’ve struggled with. Pod is strong, and I’ve got some pieces here to benefit from sac, but honestly it’s more than a little tough to make enough space for everything. Extinction and Gearhulk I totally get. Obliterator has been a reasonable value early drop and it’s done well in combat. It forces the dilemma of blocking versus taking damage and what’s more valuable, and I’ve found that people often make the wrong choice when faced with a choice of two bad outcomes.
Haruspex could pull weight for sure. Mass reanimate I love in any deck. I’ve thought about adding Finale of Eternity in here. It gives me Glissa triggers, and in order to hit ten I either am likely saccing treasures (plays nicely with Mazirek) or saccing creatures to Altar, which will then hit the field again anyway. It’s not a perfect mass reanimation spell but it could do things.
I’d actually love a copy of Kagemaro - it’s one of those oldie cards that’s just a little tough to track down despite not being overly pricey.
Nykthos needs a reprint before I’ll puck it up. It’s not drastically overcosted, but it is the sort of card that (like deluge) I could use 4 copies of. Gary I used to run here actually. Surprisingly he was a little underwhelming. I think if I added him again I’d want to be adding several reanimation spells, single and mass to really spam his ability.
Citadel is nuts. There’s very few decks it wouldn’t be excellent. My one copy is already dedicated, but I get where you’re going with it. I think part of the reason your seeing a higher than normal curve here is Pod, btw - it’s important to have a chain in a deck that’s run it, and Scrap Trawler is the same, too. Pod very much more so though - it’s just important to remember that I’m usually not planning on hard casting.
But, you have basically no tutors, many expensive cards and only pod to cheat them in (I might miss a card I guess). Thus, I imagine you typically draw the expensive cards and are stuck casting them, even if it is not what you want. I think like 2 of the different casting costs should be enough for pod really (I honestly typically run pod with a curve ending at 5. If the cards are good enough you do not really need more)
You don't have to, but do you want to? The 6-drops are like my favorite part of this.
Well, as I said, I believe it makes you more likely to win. Winning is not everything, so I cant really fault anyone for aiming for something slse. If you like something in particular, then go for it.
I mean I get what you’re saying, but cutting off at 5 means a significant drop of some of the stronger cards in the deck. Honestly, I haven’t really ever noticed being stuck with these in hand either. There’s enough early ramp, strong draw options and rocks in the deck that mana generally isn’t an issue. Granted, I don’t always see Pod, but Pod is the highway, and there’s always options to take the backroads. There’s no way I put all my eggs in one basket, especially when it’s a card that isn’t in the Command zone.
If you want a more expensive card (mana wise at least) that is great, have you tried protean hulk? That card is very powerfull, even without an infinite combo. Note that the card recently-ish got unbanned.
Looking at this deck it feels almost plodding to me. I personally bask in mana-inefficiency. I really enjoy slowly looping stuff for card advantage, but at some point you gotta kill the table. I struggle to see how casting a six drop a turn and then attacking people with them (especially since most don't have any evasion) is actually going to get there. If that's good enough for your meta then awesome, but it wouldn't stand up the the hate that I usually see. I guess my best example is that I don't think that this deck can beat basically any maelstrom wanderer deck.
Anyway, onto card suggestions... on the more expensive side: this deck seems really reliant on Birthing Pod and your only tutors are on Sidisi, Undead Vizier and Rune-Scarred Demon. Demonic Tutor is a pretty good card.
Mana Reflection or Zendikar Resurgent might allow you to be a little more explosive in actually slamming multiple spells a turn.
Lord of Extinction goes well with Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. He might also help you actually kill the table a little faster. Plus if you have extra lands around he can recur himself nicely for pod and such.
Reassembling Skeleton would be good with skullclamp, trading post, Smokestack, birthing pod and a handful of other cards.
Do Torment of Hailfire and Marionette Master actually do enough? You can generate some additional mana for Torment, but it doesn't look like a back breakingly large amount. With Marionette Master it looks like you only sacrifice one or two creatures a turn. Is 4 damage really enough? Is the token making really that helpful either? There's only a small handful of token synergies.
The Ur-Dragon (WUBRG) - Changeling Combo Tribal
Chromium (WUB) - Artifact Beats
Progenitus (WUBRG) - Dredge
Damia, Sage of Stone (GBU) - Elf-storm Tendrils
My Cube Unpowered
My Peasant-ish/Tribal-ish Cube
I had thought about this as a possible add tbh. It’s ridiculously good value.
Thedeck does have issues closing from time to time, yes. That being said I feel like comparison to Wanderer is maybe a little tough; guy doesn’t even need to resolve to put value on the table. I get it though, I see what you’re saying.
Demonic tutor is like $50. I know how good it is but damn. Besides, I prefer not to run hard tutors. If it’s a tutor attached to something I can otherwise use, such as Sidisi, well and good, but I’d prefer to run something that holds its own intrinsic value over and above what it can fetch. It’s just how I build, I know it’s restrictive.
I kinda like these. I’ve got a spare resurgent kicking about, could be something to try out.
Jarad is nasty - he could be a great add.
Torment I haven’t had a huge chance to trial, it’s a relatively new addition. That being said it works nicely with Mazirek, and it really doesn’t take a ton for it to be a back breaking spell.
Marionette, I’m not sure if you’re reading right. It triggers for every artifact of mine that dies. 9/10 I don’t want the servos, so I pump her, sac some eggs/tokens/treasures and off someone. Again, plays nicely with Mazirek, in fact gets incrementally better with Mazirek. It would be better with more eggs and some more extensive sac synergy though. Trust me, in the right place Marionette puts in work.
Apologies if this sounds like I’m clapping back - I do appreciate the feedback, and in terms of improving a deck it can be a painful process!
WizardMN: Teysa Karlov - Aristocrats
"I would die twice for you if I could" sounds poetically loyal, but I don't think that's really what the Orzhov do. A deck full of dies triggers that each trigger twice, where 3 Grave Pacts are child's play when you can effectively have 6. Given some of the graveyard recursion from the most recent set, this deck could likely use some of the same advice my Olivia deck got, but honestly, where else are you going to find someone playing Reliquary Monk?
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
The only card that stuck out at first glance was Jet Medallion, only because it’s a two-color deck that doesn’t seem to have a huge curve. I'd probably rather have a Mirage Diamond or an Orzhov Locket, but I’m honestly just nitpicking as this sort of deck practically builds itself.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
There is a few suggestions though: Spawning Pit would be redicules.
Have you tried Liliana, Dreadhorde General yet?
Elenda, the Dusk Rose; 4 times as strong as normal...
One pro for including Academy Rector would be getting Martyr's Bond cheated into play. Then when you sac your artifact creatures, anyone without a creature will have to sacrifice a mana rock or something.
I also like Liliana, Heretical Healer in this type of deck.
As far as mana ramp goes, I always auto-include Mind Stone in 2-colour decks, especially ones with Sun Titan.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
I have not done anything with Liliana yet as her Foil is more than I want to spend on it. I do agree that she should be given a try, though 6 mana might be a bit much. But, her ultimate just wins games so I think there is good enough reason to try her out. I might try to find a spot for her and just proxy her up for now.
I had Elenda at one time and she was actually very underwhelming (which was kind of surprising). In the end, is was a lot to try to expect her ability to do a lot since she was often dying (being sacrificed) before I could get a lot of value out of her. I was usually only getting 1-4 tokens out of her and I felt like that wasn't enough to warrant keeping her around.
Thanks for all your comments/suggestions.
For a TL;DR of that deck though...
From experience my Phyrexian Altar and Ashnod's Altar are the best free sacrifice outlets available.
Attrition and Vampiric Rites are also exceptionally good sacrifice outlets (that require a mana cost).
Pitiless Plunderer is filthy strong. You should really give him a whirl.
Harvester of Souls draws a bunch of cards, and extra off your general.
Black Market and Revel in Riches both get extra triggers off Teysa Karlov. I've not actually cast either of them, but I get the feeling they'll be good.
Non-Shirei cards I'd recommend...
Pitiless Pontiff if you really need another sacrifice outlet
martyr's bond seems better than Butcher of Malakir.
Academy Rector would be great.
The Ur-Dragon (WUBRG) - Changeling Combo Tribal
Chromium (WUB) - Artifact Beats
Progenitus (WUBRG) - Dredge
Damia, Sage of Stone (GBU) - Elf-storm Tendrils
My Cube Unpowered
My Peasant-ish/Tribal-ish Cube
I agree that the Altars probably are the best but I want something more than "just" mana. While the mana from either is likely pretty good I just prefer my sac outlets be creature based. I like the suggestion above regarding Spawning Pit because it creates creatures which is nice to keep things going.
I try to avoid outlets that require mana costs (Ayli is the only one I have I think) and Attrition isn't that great in the deck since I generally have other ways to keep the board clear.
The Plunderer is interesting and I probably should give it a try. 4 mana isn't the worst here and it can help ramp me pretty well. I like the idea of it letting me go off anyway. Black Market is in the same boat but a) is 5 mana and b) is not a creature. Since I am not running any big X spells, I don't feel that the extra mana will always be that useful since I have to use it at a specific time.
Revel in Riches is actually a card I picked up and then did not include because it is probably *too* good. I already don't really like "I win" buttons like this and Teysa makes it too easy. For anyone without my reluctance for these types of cards, this is probably an easy include
I had thought about trying Pontiff when it was spoiled but, again, the mana cost ruins it for me. I am generally playing pretty tight where I don't have a lot of extra mana a lot of the time so needing mana to sac things has been a disappointment. At least one game, I had Ayli as my only sac outlet for the majority of the game and it never felt very smooth and I could tell the deck was just going slow or not performing as well as I wanted simply because I couldn't sac things when I wanted.
I like Butcher over Bond simply because it is a creature. Maybe the deck wants the 4th Grave Pact effect but I have been happy with where it is so far. I may eventually try finding a spot for the Bond but I don't believe a swap is what will happen.
Academy Rector *is* great but it gets me 1 of 2 cards basically all the time. As a personal preference, I don't generally like tutors when they are there solely as an extra copy of another card. And since Rector will always get me either Grave Pact or Dictate (most likely) it feels like it will cause games to be repetitive. And, while not a huge deal, it doesn't work with Teysa to get me 2 Enchantments.
The first thing I thought of when I saw that card was finding a spot for it in this deck. I have my 2 boxes pre-ordered so hopefully I pull one
It's not perfect, but Sadistic Hypnotist is a really nasty sacrifice trigger. It might trigger the feel-bads, but it's a powerful ability.
Altar of Dementia could also be cool - a little different from the traditional altars in that it doesn't give you mana, but it can fill your yard or shred libraries for you.
I'm also going to give a second for Pitiless Plunderer. It's decent acceleration, and I can see it putting in good work here. To me, it deserves a slot over Black Market, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, as you said, you want creatures. Secondly, if Market blows up you lose all of your charge counters and end up with nothing. Third, even if this doesn't happen, the mana is colour specific and you can only use it at one point in your turn.
I guess it's a little redundant in that you have Thrilling Encore, but if you're after a second iteration of this effect, Faith's Reward is a thing.