First item that comes to mind that you can use as a potential card if you need it is Phyrexian Tower. They got cheap and you can absolutely use the 2 black mana.
You don't seem to have enough looting to make original squee worth it, otherwise that could be something.
First item that comes to mind that you can use as a potential card if you need it is Phyrexian Tower. They got cheap and you can absolutely use the 2 black mana.
Oh neat! Didn't know that wasn't $50 anymore. Good deal.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Have you considered Archfiend of Ifnir? Reasonably-costed flying beater, nice to give it haste and a counter, but also really rewards you for playing the deck the way you want. Every time you discard, you get to -1/-1 the whole opponents’ board. Could take the spot of a removal and not even feel bad about it. Also gives you the ability to deal with indestructible or hexproof, if that’s a problem in your meta.
Since Olivia's schtick makes every creature you cast a vampire, you might get more mileage out of Coat of Arms than most other tribal decks that have to compromise here and there.
Looks properly Rakdos, and I’m totally unsurprised to see Hellcarver Demon make an entrance. I like that you’ve focused on haste, as it’s usually something that reanimation doesn’t immediately come with, and it should. To that end, here’s a couple possibles: Mogis’s Marauder - it might be a bit variable in effect, but I’d bet you don’t need a huge amount of potential targets to do some heavy damage. Bond of Revival - Rise from the Grave but fixed. It’s a little pricey to cast, but the haste fixes the value of the card nicely.
I’m going to echo outcry here and reiterate that Archfiend of Ifnir is just nasty. Cheap to pick up, well costed beater, cycles if needed, wrecks board states effortlessly. Considering what your deck does you could consider this guy a board wipe.
Just spitballing here - how well would Rakdos, lord of Riots fit in the deck? If you’re going Rakdos style turbo murder, he could help speed your curve up nicely. You could pair him with Dire Fleet Ravager to hit some awesome levels of cost reduction. Or Malakir Bloodwitch, considering all of your stuff is pseudo vampires.
How would Squee, Goblin Nabob work in the deck as a regular reliable discard outlet?
I’ve yet to play test this myself, but how well do you think Finale of Eternity fits here? Burnt Offering helps you decathlon cast it, and as long as you’ve got a full grip to discard for haste it could be a devastatingly strong finisher. Certainly seems stronger than Twilight’s Call, which has always seemed too bilateral to me.
From a non card suggestion perspective this deck looks like it’d be a blast to play whether you win or lose.
You've got a reasonable amount of self life loss stuff, have you considered Repay in Kind?
Dragonlover
I have not, but I'm not sure that I want to. Assuming that I get to live the dream, Volcano Hellion myself to 1, get 7 mana and Repay in Kind in hand, and then finish everyone off with something like Judith, Scourge Diva, that just means that I didn't get to make more things explode. Most of my decks have a sly win condition card like that, but this deck doesn't want to be sly. This deck wants the subtlety of helicopter gunships flying over Las Vegas.
Have you considered running Anger? I have to imagine that sometimes you would rather not discard spells if you didn't have to...
The percentage of time that I don't have something I actively want to discard is fairly low. The percentage that I have nothing I'm willing to discard is nearly zero. The only reason I'd think about Anger is to reduce my dependency on Olivia herself. So that's worth thinking of, but not for that reason. And while I hate to say it, if I don't have something to discard, I can wait a turn. It hurts, but I'll live.
Have you considered Archfiend of Ifnir? Reasonably-costed flying beater, nice to give it haste and a counter, but also really rewards you for playing the deck the way you want. Every time you discard, you get to -1/-1 the whole opponents’ board. Could take the spot of a removal and not even feel bad about it. Also gives you the ability to deal with indestructible or hexproof, if that’s a problem in your meta.
That is an excellent suggestion. I've never really processed that Archfiend triggers off of any discard. I can picture it already, play or reanimate Archfiend, discard card to trigger, shrink opponents' boards by -1/-1, swing for 6 in the air. Or have my whole board dead, play Living Death, discard to give everything haste, Plague Wind. That sounds disgusting! Thank you.
Since Olivia's schtick makes every creature you cast a vampire, you might get more mileage out of Coat of Arms than most other tribal decks that have to compromise here and there.
The thing about Coat of Arms is that it's sneaky amounts of power. You don't really play it and let it sit, you play it to add 30 power to the board and kill people when they thought they were staring down 6 1/1 goblins. Not only are people inclined to be scared of me before Coat of Arms gets involved because my creatures are terrifying, taking away the surprise, I already have built in burst damage in as much as I have fatties with haste. I genuinely don't think it would add much to the deck's ceiling while being a dud card if people have me under control.
Looks properly Rakdos, and I’m totally unsurprised to see Hellcarver Demon make an entrance. I like that you’ve focused on haste, as it’s usually something that reanimation doesn’t immediately come with, and it should. To that end, here’s a couple possibles: Mogis’s Marauder - it might be a bit variable in effect, but I’d bet you don’t need a huge amount of potential targets to do some heavy damage. Bond of Revival - Rise from the Grave but fixed. It’s a little pricey to cast, but the haste fixes the value of the card nicely.
I’m going to echo outcry here and reiterate that Archfiend of Ifnir is just nasty. Cheap to pick up, well costed beater, cycles if needed, wrecks board states effortlessly. Considering what your deck does you could consider this guy a board wipe.
Just spitballing here - how well would Rakdos, lord of Riots fit in the deck? If you’re going Rakdos style turbo murder, he could help speed your curve up nicely. You could pair him with Dire Fleet Ravager to hit some awesome levels of cost reduction. Or Malakir Bloodwitch, considering all of your stuff is pseudo vampires.
How would Squee, Goblin Nabob work in the deck as a regular reliable discard outlet?
I’ve yet to play test this myself, but how well do you think Finale of Eternity fits here? Burnt Offering helps you decathlon cast it, and as long as you’ve got a full grip to discard for haste it could be a devastatingly strong finisher. Certainly seems stronger than Twilight’s Call, which has always seemed too bilateral to me.
From a non card suggestion perspective this deck looks like it’d be a blast to play whether you win or lose.
Mogis's Marauder was actually in my rakdos deck when my rakdos deck of choice was Rakdos, Lord of Riots, and did work. I have played Rakdos here, but honestly when I'm doing powerful things, I don't even need to cast my creatures. And Marauder was great in that deck cause it would give everything haste and evasion, but my fatties are already stacked with evasion, except super-secret tech Breaker of Armies which has the opposite of evasion.
And I didn't even process the extra text on Finale of Eternity. I need to stop wanting every mythic in this set, it's getting bad.
Edit: forgot to mention Squee. If I'm giving so many creatures haste that I'm worried about running out of cards to discard, something has gone horribly wrong. There are like 20 cards in here that refill my hand one way or another, and if I've run out of cards to play before reaching them, players should be dying already.
Okay, I'm a little shaky on the archetype and commander, so let me see what we've got going on here.
My first thought is why is there a lack of madness cards? You're discarding anyway so adding some for that extra effect, like, say, Reckless Wurm or Fiery Temper. I also don't understand the lack of removal, like you're asking for a blowout. Specifically, Firestorm is on-function with your deck and is certainly better than Conflagratein most situations.
I don't "get" Hellcarver Demon, and I haven't since ROE. I know what he does, and I can read it, I just can't decipher why you'd run this over almost anything else. Maybe I'm too dense. :/
I think your reanimation suite is a bit suspect. Animate Dead? Necromancy? Reanimate? I know you're discarding, but since you're reanimating so heavily, I'd imagine you'd make terrific use of a Buried Alive and Entomb. The five drop 3/3 that does one-third of a buried alive reads as it'd be especially on-point.
I think your threat suite, while I of all people appreciate nostalgia, it reads like a greatest hits of 2012. Thunderblust? Hateflayer? Surely you'd rather reanimate Pathrazer of Ulamog and It That Betrays no? Bane of Bala Ged surely. Wurmcoil Engine would be a beating and a half.
I think your manabase could use a lot of work, even not looking to a fetch-dual-shock manabase. But I'm confident you know this and I'll leave it at that.
Zombie Infestation and Putrid Imp are surely better discard outlets than most of what you have. I'm assuming you've already considered Anvil of Bogardan? Jalum Tome is a wonderful card I discovered in WB Kaalia when I determined I couldn't reasonable use Necropotence. It's pretty efficient, cheap to activate, and colourless. Similarly, Smuggler's Copter though I'd value Jalum Tome over the Looter Scooter for this particular deck.
I will echo 3drinks madness suggestion, but with a few other suggestion cards that have worked well for me in madness decks: Big Game Hunter - madness effects must be cheap. This is pretty much as cheap as they get (outside Call to the Netherworld - inside the Netherworld it is too dark to see) and it is a fairly easy removal spell that happens to leave a small guy behind. Grave Scrabbler - while you like having some creatures in gy, I imagine it is nice to get some of the small creatures back sometimes for cheap.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
Okay, I'm a little shaky on the archetype and commander, so let me see what we've got going on here.
My first thought is why is there a lack of madness cards? You're discarding anyway so adding some for that extra effect, like, say, Reckless Wurm or Fiery Temper. I also don't understand the lack of removal, like you're asking for a blowout. Specifically, Firestorm is on-function with your deck and is certainly better than Conflagratein most situations.
I don't "get" Hellcarver Demon, and I haven't since ROE. I know what he does, and I can read it, I just can't decipher why you'd run this over almost anything else. Maybe I'm too dense. :/
I think your reanimation suite is a bit suspect. Animate Dead? Necromancy? Reanimate? I know you're discarding, but since you're reanimating so heavily, I'd imagine you'd make terrific use of a Buried Alive and Entomb. The five drop 3/3 that does one-third of a buried alive reads as it'd be especially on-point.
I think your threat suite, while I of all people appreciate nostalgia, it reads like a greatest hits of 2012. Thunderblust? Hateflayer? Surely you'd rather reanimate Pathrazer of Ulamog and It That Betrays no? Bane of Bala Ged surely. Wurmcoil Engine would be a beating and a half.
I think your manabase could use a lot of work, even not looking to a fetch-dual-shock manabase. But I'm confident you know this and I'll leave it at that.
Zombie Infestation and Putrid Imp are surely better discard outlets than most of what you have. I'm assuming you've already considered Anvil of Bogardan? Jalum Tome is a wonderful card I discovered in WB Kaalia when I determined I couldn't reasonable use Necropotence. It's pretty efficient, cheap to activate, and colourless. Similarly, Smuggler's Copter though I'd value Jalum Tome over the Looter Scooter for this particular deck.
So I'm reminded of a scene from One Piece (I love One Piece). The pirate crew is in a deep dark forest on a dangerous island, the forest is filled with dangerous animals, and the island has two warring factions fighting on it who both want to kill the protagonists just for setting foot there. Nico Robin, who hasn't been on the crew for very long and has a little different perspective than the others, says something to the group like "We should put out the fire so we don't give away our location and lay low for the night." Two others, Luffy and Usopp make some serious faces, Luffy goes "Man, that's a stupid idea, can you believe she wants to put out the fire?" And Usopp's like "Hey, it's not her fault, she's just ignorant, she just doesn't know better." She's befuddled, asks "what do you mean?" And then their facade of seriousness breaks down and their like "We're SUPPOSED to have a campfire! You just have to have a campfire when you're camping, even if it costs us our lives!" And then they make a bonfire and have a big party.
So like, you're making sensible suggestions, that many people would likely say are right, and I promise to take them seriously... but you just don't know what you don't know! It's not your fault you don't know to party with Hellcarver Demon, but that's just what you're supposed to do! You're supposed to play Hellcarver Demon and have a big party even if it costs you your life!
That being said, Hellcarver Demon is amazing and I love it and I swear I'm 50-75% to win the game whenever I connect with it. But to sell you on the card, I think I need to demonstrate, so Imma stick Hellcarver in my opening hand on purpose and goldfish a game. There's no opponents, so we'll have to make some assumptions, but I think they're reasonable. Turns 1 and 2 I just played lands and passed. Turn 3 I played Olivia, Mobilized for War. Lets pretend my opponents spent their first 3-4 turns establishing their own boards and are tapped out, not an unreasonable assumption in a casual 4-person pod. Turn 4, play a 4th land, Priest of Yawgmoth, discard Hellcarver Demon to Olivia's trigger, and make 3 black. Cast Dread Return on Hellcarver, discard a card to give it haste. Second assumption, also not unreasonable, we pretend there's at least 1 opponent who can't block a flyer. Hellcarver hits and triggers, discard my hand and sacrifice everything but Hellcarver Demon, flip over 6 cards. The flip was kind of mediocre: 3 lands, Thunderblust, Priest of Urabrask, and Sire of Insanity. 3rd assumption, still not unreasonable, let's pretend making everyone discard their hand was enough disruption to protect my demon for 1 turn. So we go to the next turn, attack with Hellcarver again, sac the other 2 creatures, hit 2 more lands, Disciple of Bolas, Priest of Forgotten Gods, Volcano Hellion, and World at War. I do no damage with Hellion, I sac Hellion to Disciple and draw some cards, and Thunderblust persists. Second combat, swing again, sacrifice everything but Hellcarver and discard my hand, this time the flip is sweet: land, Knollspine Dragon, Thrilling Encore (brings back 2 Priests, Hellion, Disciple, Thunderblust, and Sire), Thermopod, Sign in Blood, and Kokusho, the Evening Star. I assume the worst, that I didn't hit any individual player for more than 7, draw 7 with Knollspine Dragon, draw 7 more with Disciple, draw 2 more with Sign in Blood. Sacrifice 3 creatures to flashback Dread Return on Priest of Yawgmoth for 3 black, sacrifice everything else to Thermopod for red mana, cast Living Death from the cards I drew, bring back my creatures, discard my hand to Olivia triggers because I'm gonna discard to Knollspine Dragon, draw 7 more with Knollspine, 7 more with Disciple saccing Knollspine, make 6 mana with my twin Priests, cast Skirge Familiar, discard my hand for mana, cast Animate Dead on Knollspine Dragon, draw 7 more cards, cast Garna, the Bloodflame. Sacrifice Garna to Thermopod in response to it's own trigger, pick up all the creature cards in my graveyard cause they got there this turn, then discard them all to Skirge Familiar. There are more than 4 creature cards to pick up and discard, so this makes an infinite loop with Garna, Skirge Familiar, and Thermopod that nets me infinite black mana, which I can then use to add recurring Kokusho into the infinite loop to kill the table. And that is why I run Hellcarver Demon, because games like that happen frequently once it lands the first blow.
As far as your actual suggestions: I've got a few flashback spells and a big stack of fat things I actively want to discard, I don't really need more things like madness spells to compete with them. Firestorm is worse than Conflagrate in most situations I play Conflagrate, cause it's usually played after I've wheeled a time or 2, and Firestorm doesn't do that from the graveyard. And it's like 50/50 on whether I'm playing Conflagrate to kill creatures or just end the game cause I need a few extra points of damage or have infinite mana as seen above.
Animate Dead is in here. Reanimate should be. I could probably do good things with Entomb, but I have played with Buried Alive and I just never bothered casting it. I know I just described in detail a 3 creature combo that I could search up and Living Death combo finish, but there's just always so many cool things to do, searching for 3 cards feels so laborious, why bother. Entomb is a different beast cause it can put Dread Return in my graveyard, but I don't own one at the moment.
I guess I could put my Wurmspiralmaschine in here. (I don't actually own a german Wurmcoil Engine, but I wish I did.) But don't trash talk my Thunderblust! It's neat with Olivia as a 7/2 that persists forever cause Olivia cancels out the -1/-1 counter. If I'm gonna replace fat things, probably Hateflayer and Soul of Innistrad could go. The mana cost on their usefulness gets in the way of more windmill slamming.
The mana base is just what I happen to own. But like, it's 2 colors, I'd probably be comfortable with straight basics anyway. I would totally play the kamigawa land that sacs all your lands for a demon token though.
Putrid Imp is probably good, as having weenie things is an important part of the deck as well as it being a discard outlet. Zombie Infestation is less cool than the imp. And I really don't care that much for the looting things, they would all make me wait multiple turns to accumulate value, and I don't wanna wait for our lives to be over, I want to know right now what will it be!
I'll be at a card store this evening, I'll add some of these things to the list of cards I'm looking for.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Volcano Hellion is a really cool card. Is it just a reoccurring removal spell for this deck or is there some other synergy I'm missing? If so, I've been impressed with Patron of the Vein in my other decks. It might be better for you especially with Olivia turning everyone into vampires.
Volcano Hellion is a really cool card. Is it just a reoccurring removal spell for this deck or is there some other synergy I'm missing? If so, I've been impressed with Patron of the Vein in my other decks. It might be better for you especially with Olivia turning everyone into vampires.
Volcano Hellion is a really cool card. I would not like to swap it for 2 reasons: it's attacks as a 7/6 for 4 mana with Olivia, and it killing itself is usually an upside. As long as it stays dead, my reanimation can be used as removal, where a Ravenous Chupacapra type card hits once and then just sits there. Patron of the Vein is sweet but it's 2 extra and doesn't have that recursion effect... at the same time, I have Patron in my Mathas deck as a kill spell that pumps my general, and the exile part would be waaaay more valuable here, so that might be worthwhile consideration in the top end, in the spot we're talking about Hateflayer being cuttable.
Balthor is cool, you should send me one.
Phyrexian Rager is as much nostalgia as anything. There are a few little draw weenies that outperform it these days. As far as beefy draw power, I feel like I'm pretty well covered already covered. Harvester was in here at some point, but there are just better draw fatties in my opinion.
Soldevi Adnate is not a Burnt Offering creature, as it neither sacrifices mono-red creatures nor makes red mana, and those are very important to me, but it's still probably exceptional, especially with haste. That's a card I never considered before and will look into acquiring.
And Sire of Insanity is a lot more than Mindslicer. Contributing to board presense while perpetually making people wait to draw removal is oppressive, and is also a big bodied threat. Wiping hands with Mindslicer is a big irritation that left me with less board presence and angry people who want to gun for me, Sire of Insanity makes people continue to fear you on multiple axes.
A mono-black deck that sucks your opponent's cards away into a Bottomless Pit with Erebos, God of the Dead on top to be the only one with cards to play. Yes, this deck has Howltooth Hollow, why would you even ask?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Something I wondering (the deck description doesnt say one way or the other): is the deck creatureless by restriction or based on the belief that creatures would weaken the deck? There do seem to be a few etb creatures that would help you,.. (think black myodjin, Gray Merchant of Asphodel)
Besides there are a few obivious ideas (I imagine you have considered them but still): necropotence - fear of the needle? Is that card common in your meta? Toxic Deluge - one of the best wraths in black black market - you do not believe in mana too much, but in my experience, the one with the most mana typically wins
Various black planeswalkers (if you can keep the table clean, they could help a great deal).
There are also the seriously expensive cards, like imperial seal, but I will refrain from those.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
Necropotence is an odd omission, but speaking as someone who plays Erebos I can almost understand why. I spend a lot of my life and mana activating Erebos to dig into my deck, and there are times when I topdeck Necro and it's dead because I'm so low on life. However, there are also times when I'm behind and it catapults me back into the game. Same with Ad Nauseam. They're two cards I'd rather have and not need than need and not have.
I agree that Toxic Deluge also merits inclusion. It can cost a lot of life and take out Erebos should he be active but the mana efficiency and ability to take out indestructibles and other problematic creatures is nice.
As for cuts, I think Skull of Ramos is the weakest ramp card in the deck, both Worst Fears and Mindslaver seem redundant (one effect to tutor up seems good but two is overkill), Ill-Gotten Gains seems counterintuitive in a deck heavily focused on discard, and Sever the Bloodline seems slooow.
Seems like a rough deck to play against. I'd expect no less from the God of Death.
It does feel like you could do more with big mana - Black Market could be good, and I've had good results with Revel in Riches too. Win con aside, it's a decent mana generator, but with a decent board wipe it's a really, really easy win. If there were any deck to fit Liliana of the Dark Realms into, this is probably it, too. In mono black, could be worth it just for the ramp, if not for removal and her ultimate.
I won't suggest creatures as that seems to be the theme, which I dig - restriction breeds creativity, and if you want creatureless that's fine by me (although all the enchantments would tempt me to add Doomwake Giant). Is that often an issue for you though? If so, you could always include some ways to get chump blockers - Bitterblossom seems great here for that, or Dreadhorde Invasion if you can't the afford the superior original. Even Zombie Infestation gives you something to keep your life totals up. Or you could just run Darkness, Thaumatic Compass and such. Compass could be really good here actually, as a ramp and as a second Maze.
How are you breaking the symmetry on Descent into Madness? Without a constant stream of tokens to help buffer the exile I feel like you probably end up worse off than the rest of the table, but maybe I'm missing something.
Upon analysis, I think the one thing that you need and also will probably have a hard time finding are more win conditions. Sometimes you're not going to draw your X spells and every strategy that involves slowing down your opponent will get overcome over time against decks that are good enough or resilient enough to withstand it.
That's why I prefer not to use such strategies. I prefer to be very direct with my preference towards eliminating everyone.
Although if I were to use such a strategy, I'd want a quick follow up.
This deck seems really weird to me. I have a hard time imagining it doing good in my area. Purely because its win-conditions are slow and they kill people in a way that is highly annoying. For example Painful Quandary is super strong, but I've found cards like that rapidly turn the game into archenemy until you're dead.
Also, I assume there isn't many super-friends decks in the metagame because this deck looks extremely weak against planewalkers.
I don't understand Venser's Journal. I feel like its to help cover the life loss from your general. Yet, you're also running Null Brooch. Has the journal been good enough? Maybe Druidic Satchel? Yeah, druidic satchel seems really good here, it either gains you 2 life (effectively a card draw) or ramps you. Seems good.
Necropotence is an odd omission, but speaking as someone who plays Erebos I can almost understand why. I spend a lot of my life and mana activating Erebos to dig into my deck, and there are times when I topdeck Necro and it's dead because I'm so low on life. However, there are also times when I'm behind and it catapults me back into the game. Same with Ad Nauseam. They're two cards I'd rather have and not need than need and not have.
Necro has two issues, IMO: First, if you don't want Erebos vulnerable to toughness-lowering effects, most forced-sac effects, and exile effects, Necro takes your devotion up to 4. Secondly, it's slightly redundant. Only slightly, since it's obviously much more efficient in terms of mana, but the tempo loss can kill. Obviously having two options is good, but having Necro means you can't draw cards normally. Which is not normally a big deal, this isn't something where it's dealbreaking like Symbiotic Deployment (Dear Symbiotic Deployment, you are neither Necro nor Azusa, please stop pretending.), but again, you're not gaining nearly as much from Necro than you are normally.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
First, if you don't want Erebos vulnerable to toughness-lowering effects, most forced-sac effects, and exile effects, Necro takes your devotion up to 4.
Typically speaking, you don't want to play both Erebos and Necro at the same time because of your second point about it being somewhat redundant. There are rare circumstances where it's the right play, but most often I sandbag the Skull until I need to deploy it. Also, frankly speaking, I don't give a damn what happens to Erebos if I can just resolve Necro.
Secondly, it's slightly redundant. Only slightly, since it's obviously much more efficient in terms of mana, but the tempo loss can kill. Obviously having two options is good, but having Necro means you can't draw cards normally. Which is not normally a big deal, this isn't something where it's dealbreaking like Symbiotic Deployment (Dear Symbiotic Deployment, you are neither Necro nor Azusa, please stop pretending.), but again, you're not gaining nearly as much from Necro than you are normally.
I agree that Necro isn't nearly as good here as it is in, say, Zur or black Sidisi or even Chainer, but the effect is too powerful to ignore. While not to the same degree, it's sort of like saying you shouldn't run Counterspell just because you're running Mana Drain. You want both.
[I agree that Necro isn't nearly as good here as it is in, say, Zur or black Sidisi or even Chainer, but the effect is too powerful to ignore. While not to the same degree, it's sort of like saying you shouldn't run Counterspell just because you're running Mana Drain. You want both.
The only time I don't play Necro is 1) I don't have the mana constraints to reliably land it (white border mana fixing is harsh), or I rely on looting to play out of the graveyard. If neither are true, then you're making a misplay by not including a Necropotence in your deck.
You don't seem to have enough looting to make original squee worth it, otherwise that could be something.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Oh neat! Didn't know that wasn't $50 anymore. Good deal.
Dragonlover
Lathliss Dragon Queen - All dragons all the time!
Mono-White Mono-Legends
Ruhan of the Fomori
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
Storrev, Devkarin Lich
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsMogis’s Marauder - it might be a bit variable in effect, but I’d bet you don’t need a huge amount of potential targets to do some heavy damage.
Bond of Revival - Rise from the Grave but fixed. It’s a little pricey to cast, but the haste fixes the value of the card nicely.
From a non card suggestion perspective this deck looks like it’d be a blast to play whether you win or lose.
I have not, but I'm not sure that I want to. Assuming that I get to live the dream, Volcano Hellion myself to 1, get 7 mana and Repay in Kind in hand, and then finish everyone off with something like Judith, Scourge Diva, that just means that I didn't get to make more things explode. Most of my decks have a sly win condition card like that, but this deck doesn't want to be sly. This deck wants the subtlety of helicopter gunships flying over Las Vegas.
The percentage of time that I don't have something I actively want to discard is fairly low. The percentage that I have nothing I'm willing to discard is nearly zero. The only reason I'd think about Anger is to reduce my dependency on Olivia herself. So that's worth thinking of, but not for that reason. And while I hate to say it, if I don't have something to discard, I can wait a turn. It hurts, but I'll live.
That is an excellent suggestion. I've never really processed that Archfiend triggers off of any discard. I can picture it already, play or reanimate Archfiend, discard card to trigger, shrink opponents' boards by -1/-1, swing for 6 in the air. Or have my whole board dead, play Living Death, discard to give everything haste, Plague Wind. That sounds disgusting! Thank you.
The thing about Coat of Arms is that it's sneaky amounts of power. You don't really play it and let it sit, you play it to add 30 power to the board and kill people when they thought they were staring down 6 1/1 goblins. Not only are people inclined to be scared of me before Coat of Arms gets involved because my creatures are terrifying, taking away the surprise, I already have built in burst damage in as much as I have fatties with haste. I genuinely don't think it would add much to the deck's ceiling while being a dud card if people have me under control.
Mogis's Marauder was actually in my rakdos deck when my rakdos deck of choice was Rakdos, Lord of Riots, and did work. I have played Rakdos here, but honestly when I'm doing powerful things, I don't even need to cast my creatures. And Marauder was great in that deck cause it would give everything haste and evasion, but my fatties are already stacked with evasion, except super-secret tech Breaker of Armies which has the opposite of evasion.
Malakir Bloodwitch might be better for me than the Pontiff of Blight I tossed in for some lifegain, I was leaning too hard into Kokusho, the Evening Star. I'll try that one out.
And I didn't even process the extra text on Finale of Eternity. I need to stop wanting every mythic in this set, it's getting bad.
Edit: forgot to mention Squee. If I'm giving so many creatures haste that I'm worried about running out of cards to discard, something has gone horribly wrong. There are like 20 cards in here that refill my hand one way or another, and if I've run out of cards to play before reaching them, players should be dying already.
My first thought is why is there a lack of madness cards? You're discarding anyway so adding some for that extra effect, like, say, Reckless Wurm or Fiery Temper. I also don't understand the lack of removal, like you're asking for a blowout. Specifically, Firestorm is on-function with your deck and is certainly better than Conflagrate in most situations.
I don't "get" Hellcarver Demon, and I haven't since ROE. I know what he does, and I can read it, I just can't decipher why you'd run this over almost anything else. Maybe I'm too dense. :/
I think your reanimation suite is a bit suspect. Animate Dead? Necromancy? Reanimate? I know you're discarding, but since you're reanimating so heavily, I'd imagine you'd make terrific use of a Buried Alive and Entomb. The five drop 3/3 that does one-third of a buried alive reads as it'd be especially on-point.
I think your threat suite, while I of all people appreciate nostalgia, it reads like a greatest hits of 2012. Thunderblust? Hateflayer? Surely you'd rather reanimate Pathrazer of Ulamog and It That Betrays no? Bane of Bala Ged surely. Wurmcoil Engine would be a beating and a half.
I think your manabase could use a lot of work, even not looking to a fetch-dual-shock manabase. But I'm confident you know this and I'll leave it at that.
Zombie Infestation and Putrid Imp are surely better discard outlets than most of what you have. I'm assuming you've already considered Anvil of Bogardan? Jalum Tome is a wonderful card I discovered in WB Kaalia when I determined I couldn't reasonable use Necropotence. It's pretty efficient, cheap to activate, and colourless. Similarly, Smuggler's Copter though I'd value Jalum Tome over the Looter Scooter for this particular deck.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Big Game Hunter - madness effects must be cheap. This is pretty much as cheap as they get (outside Call to the Netherworld - inside the Netherworld it is too dark to see) and it is a fairly easy removal spell that happens to leave a small guy behind.
Grave Scrabbler - while you like having some creatures in gy, I imagine it is nice to get some of the small creatures back sometimes for cheap.
So I'm reminded of a scene from One Piece (I love One Piece). The pirate crew is in a deep dark forest on a dangerous island, the forest is filled with dangerous animals, and the island has two warring factions fighting on it who both want to kill the protagonists just for setting foot there. Nico Robin, who hasn't been on the crew for very long and has a little different perspective than the others, says something to the group like "We should put out the fire so we don't give away our location and lay low for the night." Two others, Luffy and Usopp make some serious faces, Luffy goes "Man, that's a stupid idea, can you believe she wants to put out the fire?" And Usopp's like "Hey, it's not her fault, she's just ignorant, she just doesn't know better." She's befuddled, asks "what do you mean?" And then their facade of seriousness breaks down and their like "We're SUPPOSED to have a campfire! You just have to have a campfire when you're camping, even if it costs us our lives!" And then they make a bonfire and have a big party.
So like, you're making sensible suggestions, that many people would likely say are right, and I promise to take them seriously... but you just don't know what you don't know! It's not your fault you don't know to party with Hellcarver Demon, but that's just what you're supposed to do! You're supposed to play Hellcarver Demon and have a big party even if it costs you your life!
That being said, Hellcarver Demon is amazing and I love it and I swear I'm 50-75% to win the game whenever I connect with it. But to sell you on the card, I think I need to demonstrate, so Imma stick Hellcarver in my opening hand on purpose and goldfish a game. There's no opponents, so we'll have to make some assumptions, but I think they're reasonable. Turns 1 and 2 I just played lands and passed. Turn 3 I played Olivia, Mobilized for War. Lets pretend my opponents spent their first 3-4 turns establishing their own boards and are tapped out, not an unreasonable assumption in a casual 4-person pod. Turn 4, play a 4th land, Priest of Yawgmoth, discard Hellcarver Demon to Olivia's trigger, and make 3 black. Cast Dread Return on Hellcarver, discard a card to give it haste. Second assumption, also not unreasonable, we pretend there's at least 1 opponent who can't block a flyer. Hellcarver hits and triggers, discard my hand and sacrifice everything but Hellcarver Demon, flip over 6 cards. The flip was kind of mediocre: 3 lands, Thunderblust, Priest of Urabrask, and Sire of Insanity. 3rd assumption, still not unreasonable, let's pretend making everyone discard their hand was enough disruption to protect my demon for 1 turn. So we go to the next turn, attack with Hellcarver again, sac the other 2 creatures, hit 2 more lands, Disciple of Bolas, Priest of Forgotten Gods, Volcano Hellion, and World at War. I do no damage with Hellion, I sac Hellion to Disciple and draw some cards, and Thunderblust persists. Second combat, swing again, sacrifice everything but Hellcarver and discard my hand, this time the flip is sweet: land, Knollspine Dragon, Thrilling Encore (brings back 2 Priests, Hellion, Disciple, Thunderblust, and Sire), Thermopod, Sign in Blood, and Kokusho, the Evening Star. I assume the worst, that I didn't hit any individual player for more than 7, draw 7 with Knollspine Dragon, draw 7 more with Disciple, draw 2 more with Sign in Blood. Sacrifice 3 creatures to flashback Dread Return on Priest of Yawgmoth for 3 black, sacrifice everything else to Thermopod for red mana, cast Living Death from the cards I drew, bring back my creatures, discard my hand to Olivia triggers because I'm gonna discard to Knollspine Dragon, draw 7 more with Knollspine, 7 more with Disciple saccing Knollspine, make 6 mana with my twin Priests, cast Skirge Familiar, discard my hand for mana, cast Animate Dead on Knollspine Dragon, draw 7 more cards, cast Garna, the Bloodflame. Sacrifice Garna to Thermopod in response to it's own trigger, pick up all the creature cards in my graveyard cause they got there this turn, then discard them all to Skirge Familiar. There are more than 4 creature cards to pick up and discard, so this makes an infinite loop with Garna, Skirge Familiar, and Thermopod that nets me infinite black mana, which I can then use to add recurring Kokusho into the infinite loop to kill the table. And that is why I run Hellcarver Demon, because games like that happen frequently once it lands the first blow.
As far as your actual suggestions: I've got a few flashback spells and a big stack of fat things I actively want to discard, I don't really need more things like madness spells to compete with them. Firestorm is worse than Conflagrate in most situations I play Conflagrate, cause it's usually played after I've wheeled a time or 2, and Firestorm doesn't do that from the graveyard. And it's like 50/50 on whether I'm playing Conflagrate to kill creatures or just end the game cause I need a few extra points of damage or have infinite mana as seen above.
Animate Dead is in here. Reanimate should be. I could probably do good things with Entomb, but I have played with Buried Alive and I just never bothered casting it. I know I just described in detail a 3 creature combo that I could search up and Living Death combo finish, but there's just always so many cool things to do, searching for 3 cards feels so laborious, why bother. Entomb is a different beast cause it can put Dread Return in my graveyard, but I don't own one at the moment.
I guess I could put my Wurmspiralmaschine in here. (I don't actually own a german Wurmcoil Engine, but I wish I did.) But don't trash talk my Thunderblust! It's neat with Olivia as a 7/2 that persists forever cause Olivia cancels out the -1/-1 counter. If I'm gonna replace fat things, probably Hateflayer and Soul of Innistrad could go. The mana cost on their usefulness gets in the way of more windmill slamming.
The mana base is just what I happen to own. But like, it's 2 colors, I'd probably be comfortable with straight basics anyway. I would totally play the kamigawa land that sacs all your lands for a demon token though.
Putrid Imp is probably good, as having weenie things is an important part of the deck as well as it being a discard outlet. Zombie Infestation is less cool than the imp. And I really don't care that much for the looting things, they would all make me wait multiple turns to accumulate value, and I don't wanna wait for our lives to be over, I want to know right now what will it be!
I'll be at a card store this evening, I'll add some of these things to the list of cards I'm looking for.
Volcano Hellion is a really cool card. Is it just a reoccurring removal spell for this deck or is there some other synergy I'm missing? If so, I've been impressed with Patron of the Vein in my other decks. It might be better for you especially with Olivia turning everyone into vampires.
I'm rather fond of Balthor the Defiled as a mass reanimation spell.
Wouldn't Grim Haruspex and Midnight Reaper be better than Phyrexian Rager? In a similar vein Harvester of Souls is a beefy version that triggers off everyone.
Soldevi Adnate is an exceptional ramp creature, especially with Olivia giving him haste. It's basically Burnt Offering on a creature.
Also if you like Sire of Insanity, Mindslicer is a cheaper 1-shot of the same effect.
The Ur-Dragon (WUBRG) - Changeling Combo Tribal
Chromium (WUB) - Artifact Beats
Progenitus (WUBRG) - Dredge
Damia, Sage of Stone (GBU) - Elf-storm Tendrils
My Cube Unpowered
My Peasant-ish/Tribal-ish Cube
Volcano Hellion is a really cool card. I would not like to swap it for 2 reasons: it's attacks as a 7/6 for 4 mana with Olivia, and it killing itself is usually an upside. As long as it stays dead, my reanimation can be used as removal, where a Ravenous Chupacapra type card hits once and then just sits there. Patron of the Vein is sweet but it's 2 extra and doesn't have that recursion effect... at the same time, I have Patron in my Mathas deck as a kill spell that pumps my general, and the exile part would be waaaay more valuable here, so that might be worthwhile consideration in the top end, in the spot we're talking about Hateflayer being cuttable.
Balthor is cool, you should send me one.
Phyrexian Rager is as much nostalgia as anything. There are a few little draw weenies that outperform it these days. As far as beefy draw power, I feel like I'm pretty well covered already covered. Harvester was in here at some point, but there are just better draw fatties in my opinion.
Soldevi Adnate is not a Burnt Offering creature, as it neither sacrifices mono-red creatures nor makes red mana, and those are very important to me, but it's still probably exceptional, especially with haste. That's a card I never considered before and will look into acquiring.
And Sire of Insanity is a lot more than Mindslicer. Contributing to board presense while perpetually making people wait to draw removal is oppressive, and is also a big bodied threat. Wiping hands with Mindslicer is a big irritation that left me with less board presence and angry people who want to gun for me, Sire of Insanity makes people continue to fear you on multiple axes.
Random deck to discuss number 8 is:
rogerandover: Look ma, no hands! - Erebos, creatureless control
A mono-black deck that sucks your opponent's cards away into a Bottomless Pit with Erebos, God of the Dead on top to be the only one with cards to play. Yes, this deck has Howltooth Hollow, why would you even ask?
Besides there are a few obivious ideas (I imagine you have considered them but still):
necropotence - fear of the needle? Is that card common in your meta?
Toxic Deluge - one of the best wraths in black
black market - you do not believe in mana too much, but in my experience, the one with the most mana typically wins
Various black planeswalkers (if you can keep the table clean, they could help a great deal).
There are also the seriously expensive cards, like imperial seal, but I will refrain from those.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Necropotence is an odd omission, but speaking as someone who plays Erebos I can almost understand why. I spend a lot of my life and mana activating Erebos to dig into my deck, and there are times when I topdeck Necro and it's dead because I'm so low on life. However, there are also times when I'm behind and it catapults me back into the game. Same with Ad Nauseam. They're two cards I'd rather have and not need than need and not have.
I agree that Toxic Deluge also merits inclusion. It can cost a lot of life and take out Erebos should he be active but the mana efficiency and ability to take out indestructibles and other problematic creatures is nice.
As for cuts, I think Skull of Ramos is the weakest ramp card in the deck, both Worst Fears and Mindslaver seem redundant (one effect to tutor up seems good but two is overkill), Ill-Gotten Gains seems counterintuitive in a deck heavily focused on discard, and Sever the Bloodline seems slooow.
Let me know how Pestilence works out for you.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
It does feel like you could do more with big mana - Black Market could be good, and I've had good results with Revel in Riches too. Win con aside, it's a decent mana generator, but with a decent board wipe it's a really, really easy win. If there were any deck to fit Liliana of the Dark Realms into, this is probably it, too. In mono black, could be worth it just for the ramp, if not for removal and her ultimate.
I won't suggest creatures as that seems to be the theme, which I dig - restriction breeds creativity, and if you want creatureless that's fine by me (although all the enchantments would tempt me to add Doomwake Giant). Is that often an issue for you though? If so, you could always include some ways to get chump blockers - Bitterblossom seems great here for that, or Dreadhorde Invasion if you can't the afford the superior original. Even Zombie Infestation gives you something to keep your life totals up. Or you could just run Darkness, Thaumatic Compass and such. Compass could be really good here actually, as a ramp and as a second Maze.
Dragonlover
Lathliss Dragon Queen - All dragons all the time!
Mono-White Mono-Legends
Ruhan of the Fomori
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
Storrev, Devkarin Lich
That's why I prefer not to use such strategies. I prefer to be very direct with my preference towards eliminating everyone.
Although if I were to use such a strategy, I'd want a quick follow up.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Also, I assume there isn't many super-friends decks in the metagame because this deck looks extremely weak against planewalkers.
Starting recommendations:
Crucible of Worlds. I mean you're running Smallpox.
Mindslicer. You want everyone with no hands, this does that.
I don't understand Venser's Journal. I feel like its to help cover the life loss from your general. Yet, you're also running Null Brooch. Has the journal been good enough? Maybe Druidic Satchel? Yeah, druidic satchel seems really good here, it either gains you 2 life (effectively a card draw) or ramps you. Seems good.
I feel like Liliana of the Dark Realms, Liliana of the Veil, Liliana Vess, Liliana, Dreadhorde General would all compliment your gameplan very well. Could also add in Liliana's Triumph instead of Chainer's Edict.
This deck seems really light on instant speed removal. I'd try to squeeze in some Go for the Throat and friends.
The Ur-Dragon (WUBRG) - Changeling Combo Tribal
Chromium (WUB) - Artifact Beats
Progenitus (WUBRG) - Dredge
Damia, Sage of Stone (GBU) - Elf-storm Tendrils
My Cube Unpowered
My Peasant-ish/Tribal-ish Cube
Necro has two issues, IMO: First, if you don't want Erebos vulnerable to toughness-lowering effects, most forced-sac effects, and exile effects, Necro takes your devotion up to 4. Secondly, it's slightly redundant. Only slightly, since it's obviously much more efficient in terms of mana, but the tempo loss can kill. Obviously having two options is good, but having Necro means you can't draw cards normally. Which is not normally a big deal, this isn't something where it's dealbreaking like Symbiotic Deployment (Dear Symbiotic Deployment, you are neither Necro nor Azusa, please stop pretending.), but again, you're not gaining nearly as much from Necro than you are normally.
On phasing:
I agree that Necro isn't nearly as good here as it is in, say, Zur or black Sidisi or even Chainer, but the effect is too powerful to ignore. While not to the same degree, it's sort of like saying you shouldn't run Counterspell just because you're running Mana Drain. You want both.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
The only time I don't play Necro is 1) I don't have the mana constraints to reliably land it (white border mana fixing is harsh), or I rely on looting to play out of the graveyard. If neither are true, then you're making a misplay by not including a Necropotence in your deck.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.