Joraga Treespeaker is great. Its a slightly less good sol ring, which is still really good.
Weak links? Thunderfoot Baloth - You're slamming huge creatures not a bunch of tokens. He seems underwhelming. Mage-Ring Network - This seems waaaay slow. I get you can dump extra mana in it while rattlesnaking with flash cards. But eh? There's got to be something better right? Garruk Wildspeaker - Does he do enough? You're not really tapping lands during your turn anyway. I guess he's good with cradle?
Boring card recommendations - Sol Ring and tooth and nail. Everyone plays them because they're boringly good. I assume they'd be boringly good here too.
Less boring recommendation - Crop Rotation. I heard Gaea's Cradle is a good card, this effectively lets you play two of them. It also allow for some hilarious end of turn plays with Yeva. Flash in Cradle, make a ton of mana, flash in a lethal board that no one was expecting. If you're really on the Gaea's Cradle abuse train you can also add Magus of the Candelabra and Sylvan Scrying.
Speaking of cards that are good with Gaea's Crade, Wolfbriar Elemental can make a large army if you're generating as much mana as it looks like you want. It's super weak to wraths, but Yeva sidesteps that nicely.
Least boring recommendation - Hunting Pack. Not the most competitive but Hunting Pack could definitely be hilarious here since you're always holding up so much mana. Probably not worth it from a strict power level perspective, but definitely worth it for the look on the face of the first opponent you blow out with it.
Roon, the flicker rhino. One may question how exactly they decided a rhinoceros with a basketball sized fist was the appropriate character to give the dainty ability to flicker things to and fro, but I would remind you that flickering cards is typically quite literally picking things up and putting them down. Gotta have those rhino biceps. Personally, my favorite card here is Venser, the Sojourner: the plus is on theme, and the ult terrifies people so much, they often (in my experience with Venser) forget that his -1 just sucker punches people to death. And the thread does claim it typically wins through combat.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Well, I think primers are a bad idea for this thread, because they will often have discussed anything we can come up with in a few days. It is a nice deck, but what is the point?
That said, how did Brago, King Eternal do? I notice it was discussed and none said it was bad in the deck, but it is not in the deck of the first post.
Is farhaven elf better than Yavimaya Dryad and wood elves? The former is much better offensive card while the latter is better at accel. Is the problem that you do not have enough forests? Have you considered Scattered Groves and/or Canopy Vista. Both have draw backs, but also upsides that may make up for that.
Brago, King Eternal is solid in the deck. I don’t currently run it in the list, but I probably should.
Yes, I was running Farhaven Elf due to what I considered a lack of forests, I think I did it as a snap decision after a game or two of failing to search with Wood Elves.
Knight of Autumn, in this deck, is a strict upgrade to Reclamation Sage. I think my deck actually made that swap but my list hasn’t reflected to update that.
My counter suite is mostly a meta call - my group has a few nasty reanimator decks (Meren of Clan Nel Toth and Karador, Ghost Chieftan). The exile is very relevant to beat something as dumb as a Spore Frog. But yes, in most instances, cards like Dream Fracture should be better.
Everything is better with flash, and green creatures are very far from an exception to that rule. And if your opponents are as flighty as I am when playing magic, they will never ever remember not to attack into a commander that's an Ambush Viper. I've attacked into a Yeva's "empty board" an embarrassing number of times.
Aw man, this is what I get for taking a few days off from this wonderful site.
- This is the oldest current deck in my box, and the second one I ever created, so it's great to get it featured here.
- I try to focus as much as possible on the speed advantage of Yeva's flash ability.
- It's about 90% "flashy" (foiled). Missing Cavern of Souls, Gaea's Cradle, and Yavimaya Hollow cuz they're all insanely expensive.
- It's biggest weakness is flyers, which is a bit ironic given the original name of this format.
- My best memory with this deck is putting 16 creatures on the stack in response to a Gather Specimens on the blue player's own upkeep.
- Finally, wanted to send a shoutout to Iansisle for maintaining an excellent thread on this commander, and for giving me so many good ideas I hadn't thought of (looking at you, Timbermare).
- I finally got a Beast Whisperer the other day. I'll update the list shortly (and change some of the maybes that I don't have yet to acquires).
- I've never been a fan of Elvish Mystic, but then I tried Joraga Treespeaker after it overperformed in my cube, and it was like a green Sol Ring, so I kept it. The next one on my list is Karametra's Acolyte, but four mana is not a great spot on the curve for ramping. Probably need to re-evaluate my position on these ramp guys.
- The final level of Joraga Treespeaker was never really a goal, but the more I think about it, that just makes it a Wayfarer's Bauble or Diligent Farmhand, which are both still fine cards.
- Verdant Sun's Avatar was appealing for the fact that it gives life for every creature, and the deck can always respond to removal by putting a bunch of guys on the board and gaining a lot of life. I used to have a problem with life-gain, and this card solved that specific problem.
- Patron of the Orochi is here because it can untap everything on everyone else's turn, so it's almost a slightly lesser copy of Seedborn Muse, which is one of the best green cards in the format, and especially good here.
- I don't know why I haven't put a Dryad Arbor in here.
- Because I can play creatures whenever I want, Duskwatch Recruiter is really easy to flip. Even when it's not flipped, it's still a fine place to stick extra mana and refill.
- Magus of the Library was a recent addition, and unfortunately I don't get to play as much as I used to anymore, so I haven't actually cast it here yet.
- Primordial Sage was already on my cut list. Zendikar Resurgent hasn't made it in yet because I try to cram as many creatures as possible to take fullest advantage of Yeva.
- Lotus Cobra never really came up on my radar because it always felt like an inconsistent way to gain extra mana, and I don't run many fetches in here.
- Ulvenwald Hydra has three jobs: find Cradle and Nykthos, help out against flyers, and beat face. It does all three very well.
- Bramble Sovereign would probably be a solid addition. Cloudstone Curio and Panharmonicon are not creatures, so as good as they are, it will be harder to justify them. Wirewood Symbiote feels like more of a safety blanket for Yeva than anything else.
- Shamanic Revelation is neither a creature nor an instant, so it doesn't really fit in a deck built on speed.
- Thunderfoot Baloth is there for the power boost and the trample in a single card. There are other global anthems out there, but most of them only last for one turn, and there are other global trample effects out there, but none of them do both.
- Garruk Wildspeaker is always relevant, and gets to Overrun after just one turn. I did just pick up a Garruk, Caller of Beasts, at the suggestion of Iansisle, so I'll probably try that out in the near future (in place of Primordial Sage).
- Manglehorn is kind of a meta call. There isn't a dedicated artifact deck in my local group right now, so I feel like I have enough removal.
Thanks to everyone for the feedback! At the very least, I need to take another look at my stance on ramp creatures.
Roon, the flicker rhino. One may question how exactly they decided a rhinoceros with a basketball sized fist was the appropriate character to give the dainty ability to flicker things to and fro, but I would remind you that flickering cards is typically quite literally picking things up and putting them down. Gotta have those rhino biceps. Personally, my favorite card here is Venser, the Sojourner: the plus is on theme, and the ult terrifies people so much, they often (in my experience with Venser) forget that his -1 just sucker punches people to death. And the thread does claim it typically wins through combat.
The one card that sticks out to me in this list is Armada Wurm. I understand its purpose, but I find it difficult to believe that a pair of mostly vanilla bodies is worthy of a slot in a three-color deck with access to so many different possible cards. Also, that casting cost seems a little tricky for my taste. Can't think of a better replacement at this time, but one has to be out there...
I don't have a lot of advice for this one as I tend to stay away from Bant pretty hard, with the last time I dabbled in it being a half-stock Derevi deck (that was still obscene as we'd expect from the bird wizard).
Well, I think primers are a bad idea for this thread, because they will often have discussed anything we can come up with in a few days. It is a nice deck, but what is the point?
Speaking as a primer authour, I don't think primer status should be a disqualifer from discussion honestly. Yes, we've worked for years, (for some of us a near decade even) on the deck so the likelihood of missing obvious cards is pretty low, but that doesn't absolve us of any margin for error. This thread also doesn't have to be about card selection, but also on the strategy of the deck in question. Play rate, good match ups/bad match ups, and ways for improvement on said bad matches. I.e. I know I've pretty well given up on improving my sub10% win rate vs Esper inside of Kaalia, but I still value the possible avenues of attack I never considered from others. Even if they end up not making it into the deck (for whatever reason), having something I never considered is an appreciated last chance.
Roon, the flicker rhino. One may question how exactly they decided a rhinoceros with a basketball sized fist was the appropriate character to give the dainty ability to flicker things to and fro, but I would remind you that flickering cards is typically quite literally picking things up and putting them down. Gotta have those rhino biceps. Personally, my favorite card here is Venser, the Sojourner: the plus is on theme, and the ult terrifies people so much, they often (in my experience with Venser) forget that his -1 just sucker punches people to death. And the thread does claim it typically wins through combat.
The one card that sticks out to me in this list is Armada Wurm. I understand its purpose, but I find it difficult to believe that a pair of mostly vanilla bodies is worthy of a slot in a three-color deck with access to so many different possible cards. Also, that casting cost seems a little tricky for my taste. Can't think of a better replacement at this time, but one has to be out there...[/quote]
Actually tstorm had a good suggestion that he (she?) posted in my thread - Precursor Golem. But yes, good call, it is probably subpar.
Speaking as a primer authour, I don't think primer status should be a disqualifer from discussion honestly. Yes, we've worked for years, (for some of us a near decade even) on the deck so the likelihood of missing obvious cards is pretty low, but that doesn't absolve us of any margin for error. This thread also doesn't have to be about card selection, but also on the strategy of the deck in question. Play rate, good match ups/bad match ups, and ways for improvement on said bad matches. I.e. I know I've pretty well given up on improving my sub10% win rate vs Esper inside of Kaalia, but I still value the possible avenues of attack I never considered from others. Even if they end up not making it into the deck (for whatever reason), having something I never considered is an appreciated last chance.
I second this. Having my deck recently featured gave me some great new perspective, even on something I've had for years. Nothing wrong with taking a new look at an old favorite.
Well, I think primers are a bad idea for this thread, because they will often have discussed anything we can come up with in a few days. It is a nice deck, but what is the point?
Speaking as a primer authour, I don't think primer status should be a disqualifer from discussion honestly. Yes, we've worked for years, (for some of us a near decade even) on the deck so the likelihood of missing obvious cards is pretty low, but that doesn't absolve us of any margin for error. This thread also doesn't have to be about card selection, but also on the strategy of the deck in question. Play rate, good match ups/bad match ups, and ways for improvement on said bad matches.
Totally agree. As part of the committee, I can say that while most people try to make their primers the definitive guide to playing said commander, most commanders are buildable in different contexts, and there's plenty of scope for variation. A perfect example is my Nissa build, which will come up here at some point. It does what it does fine, but there is another existing primer for the same commander that does different things entirely. Not only that, a lot of making a thread primer-worthy comes down to clean and concise presentation of your information and a well-maintained thread. TL;DR - your list may be closer to primer level than you think, and if you want to apply for primer status you should. We're not there to tell you no, we're there to help you make it happen, so if you're interested definitely apply
I've had a look at Outcry's build before - my wife runs Roon, and it's easily her most oppressive deck, capable of infinite mana with ease, and easily able to more or less lock someone out of the game. This build looks really, really solid. I can't actually see anything I'd suggest overly. I guess there's options to reduce the cost of Roon's ability with things like Illusionist's Bracers, Training Grounds, Biomancer's Familiar, but they all seem a little surplus to requirements.
I agree that Armada Wurm is a little subpar, and Precursor Golem is the king of exponential math in the right place. There's also the obvious 'if you're running Karmic and 'Lark, why no Saffi?', but you don't have a ton of ETB triggers to abuse so that probably covers that. Also, do you have a way to abuse Coalition Relic? Without proliferate or an untap source it seems like you'd be just fine with Darksteel Ingot, or possibly better with Crystalline Crawler.
Aside from these, I see three of my all time favourite creatures in the deck and it makes me happy: Perplexing Chimera is so much damn fun. Seemingly casual, but when it becomes crucial it can really save your ass and I love it. Ixidron is the most abnormal 'removal' that exists, and I'm really pleased to see it here. Mangara of Corondor is a straight up, muthaf*ckin boss machine gun.
Speaking as a primer authour, I don't think primer status should be a disqualifer from discussion honestly. Yes, we've worked for years, (for some of us a near decade even) on the deck so the likelihood of missing obvious cards is pretty low, but that doesn't absolve us of any margin for error. This thread also doesn't have to be about card selection, but also on the strategy of the deck in question. Play rate, good match ups/bad match ups, and ways for improvement on said bad matches. I.e. I know I've pretty well given up on improving my sub10% win rate vs Esper inside of Kaalia, but I still value the possible avenues of attack I never considered from others. Even if they end up not making it into the deck (for whatever reason), having something I never considered is an appreciated last chance.
I can see what you are saying and many seems ro agree, so it matters little what I think, but if we restrict discussion about a deck to ones that have played with that commander before (which is basically required in order to discuss matchups or most things beyond cards - heck even cards get somewhat annoying when you have to search through the thread for discussions on the cards), we do risk killing the thread - only one so far has seemingly played Roon for instance and the value of the thread would decrease a lot if only one or two posted per deck.
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
I can see what you are saying and many seems ro agree, so it matters little what I think, but if we restrict discussion about a deck to ones that have played with that commander before (which is basically required in order to discuss matchups or most things beyond cards - heck even cards get somewhat annoying when you have to search through the thread for discussions on the cards), we do risk killing the thread - only one so far has seemingly played Roon for instance and the value of the thread would decrease a lot if only one or two posted per deck.
I see what you are saying. But as a primer author whose deck is up right now, I can tell you that I still appreciate feedback and fresh perspectives, even if it’s just “you should try X card”, and even if that card has been discussed before. Traffic to my thread and getting people interested in Roon are both big boons for me and my thread. I do not want people to be discouraged from posting about my Roon deck just because they haven’t played the deck - rather the opposite. I’ve had back-and-forth conversations with lots of regulars on my thread, and I’d love some new opinions! Feel free to drop by.
This deck seems tailor-made for a Training Grounds. Didn't see any discussion of it in your thread, but it does serious work for me in Scarab God.
Lastly, a friend of mine used to have a Roon deck and he mentioned that one of his most underrated cards was Loxodon Warhammer. He said that it solved a lot of specific problems and shored up a lot of weaknesses. Might be something to try out.
Lastly, a friend of mine used to have a Roon deck and he mentioned that one of his most underrated cards was Loxodon Warhammer. He said that it solved a lot of specific problems and shored up a lot of weaknesses. Might be something to try out.
Loxodon Warhammer is something I had in my short-lived Roon deck as well, and if your friend's experience is like mine, the weakness being shored up is lack of win condition. Roon innately has the ability to flicker a creature blocking it and trample through like nothing was ever there, and 7 power is really the magic number for commander damage.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
This deck seems tailor-made for a Training Grounds. Didn't see any discussion of it in your thread, but it does serious work for me in Scarab God.
Lastly, a friend of mine used to have a Roon deck and he mentioned that one of his most underrated cards was Loxodon Warhammer. He said that it solved a lot of specific problems and shored up a lot of weaknesses. Might be something to try out.
You're right, Spell Crumple lost most of its appeal when the tuck rule came into being. I'll probably replace with Counterspell.
Training Grounds is good and should probably be in the deck. I have my only copy in a Sliver deck currently, so I just make do with other cards I have available.
Loxodon Warhammer is great and I use it in multiple decks. I'm wondering if your friend plays against a lot of agro decks, as I'm typically losing with this deck to something worse than incremental damage. Does he have a more agro-oriented deck?
For a competitive list, it needs more Intruder Alarm for more Roon shenanigans. Throw in a critter that taps for two mana like a leveled-up Joraga Treespeaker and you can blink to your hearts content.
I'm also a big fan of Toothy, Imaginary Friend in my Brago, King Eternal blink deck, although the wording on Roon may make this less attractive (Roon puts the creature back into play end of turn versus immediately, so Toothy wouldn't be in play when you draw the cards off it). It still works very well with Eldrazi Displacer, Deadeye Navigator, and Conjurer's Closet though, so maybe its worth a look.
Regarding Intruder Alarm: yup, the issue is that some of my better blink sources, like Roon, return EoT and so do not interact quite as amazingly with it. But yes, Mistmeadow Witch and Eldrazi Displacer are incredible with it. I should dig up my old copies...
In this particular build of Glissa, the Traitor, most of what I presume are the primary targets for Glissa's triggered ability are actually artifact creatures, built into a tidy utility Birthing Pod chain. If you're anything like me, you will look over this and think "huh, I've never seen a Glissa player without Executioner's Capsule" (or some similar card), but if you'd like to save yourself that momentary confusion, there's actually a second decklist spoilered in the thread of an older build that may contain the cards you're expecting to see. The list that's prominently displayed may have some things you're not expecting, like instead of that Capsule, you get a Noxious Geahulk.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I've been waiting for this one to come up. When it's good it's great, but it does slump from time to time, and it's easily the deck I've had the hardest time building and brewing. I welcome any thoughts.
So, I'm happy this one came up as a Glissa connoisseur or as I was in a previous life before choosing to live in the heat of draconic flames (fyi, I think that's somewhere in the Mountains of Shiv, about 72 Klicks out from my Nomad Outpost on Tarkir).
First suggestion is really like the rule 0 of Glissa decks. You never start this build without Guardian Beast, and this is the one deck where I'd argue his reserved list pricing is still far, far worth it. Adding a Darksteel Plate to this guy makes a pseudo Darksteel Forge for half the mana which is quite good. Pretty hard to justify playing the deck without this guy (impossible for me, in all actuality).
So, some of the suggestions I've come to enjoy were Viridian Longbow because often opponents read your cards and won't attack into your great wall of deathtouch. This allows you to gtet your triggers and pick off annoying pests that shouldn't stick to the board.
Next, I always absolutely adored the Salvaging Station package with this deck! This was the best deck for the Station that couldn't play Artificier's Intuition for a number of reasons, the best of which because Lotus Bloom becomes a reusable, legal Black Lotus here. And if that's not enough convincing (how could it not be), you can also keep graveyard decks super, super honest with the (I see you already have) Nihil Spellbomb, but you can also make great use of Phyrexian Furnace and Scrabbling Claws. In general I find your lack of more cantripping artifacts somewhat jarring, I'd at least feel better about this deck including a Moriok Replica (whoops, missed that on first read) and Horizon Spellbomb. Maybe some other artifact sac outlets (KCI comes to mind) though I was quite partial to Grinding Station, which both sacs your spellbombs (that you can still draw on) and puts more Glissa targets in the 'Yard for better selection. Oh, and you can also make people regret wrathing you with Lifespark Spellbomb activations (or cycle it when not needed, or add extra power to your board or whatever) while Necrogen Spellbomb can soft lock someone's draw step, or again, cycle when not needed. Station is super super good, and even better here, people will learn to respect it after they're done hating what kind of machine you've constructed here.
I think this naturally irritates people and they will want to send aggro your way (or they just don't like me ), so low mana answers to them are necessary. I'd call the E-Capsule you addressed already a corre piece (I'd play it alongside Gearhulk, not replace it with Gearhulk) because sometimes you need to answer things for under six mana and at instant speed. I'd also suggest with all these sacrifices, that Fangren Marauder does a terrific job of keeping our life totals in a nice and healthy range; do not be mislead by his ugly "5/5 for 6" stats, he more than pulls his weight once your sacrificing. Note if you're trying to soak damage, Forcefield is not worth buying into. Holding up 1 for every creature and still letting them trigger their swords and jittes is a pretty miserable experience for the money that thing commands normally, in my experiences.
I see you've got the Wurmcoil and Battlesphere, but friendly reminder that Scuttling Doom Engine is a pretty great clock here as well. People really don't like him being sacrificed on-demand.
If you do decide to add Nim Deathmantle, then Su-Chi is a combo with an arbitrarily large number of sacrifices for you. You can replicate this with Cathodion if your sac outlet is KCI, Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar specifically. Same combo, but with fewer sac outlets so it's a little more restrictive. Once you assemble the engine though you can murder everybody else at the table with Bitter Ordeal.
Once again, I hope I didn't come off too harsh on you.
Once again, I hope I didn't come off too harsh on you.
Not at all! Glissa has proved a deck I enjoy playing but have struggled to build effectively, and it's been tough to get clear idea of where I wanted it to go, so I appreciate the feedback. As it is at present, I'm at a place where I'm fairly happy but have no idea where to make cuts, so that's made things tough on its own. First world problems, I guess.
First suggestion is really like the rule 0 of Glissa decks. You never start this build without Guardian Beast, and this is the one deck where I'd argue his reserved list pricing is still far, far worth it. Adding a Darksteel Plate to this guy makes a pseudo Darksteel Forge for half the mana which is quite good. Pretty hard to justify playing the deck without this guy (impossible for me, in all actuality).
This guy looks like a shoe in. Clearly really strong, and I can see why he's worth the money. Still, he's close around $650 here, so he's probably a pipe dream unless my life gets all Dickens-esque and a long lost family member dies and bequeaths me a small fortune. It could happen!
So, some of the suggestions I've come to enjoy were Viridian Longbow because often opponents read your cards and won't attack into your great wall of deathtouch. This allows you to gtet your triggers and pick off annoying pests that shouldn't stick to the board.
I like it as being a superior way to get triggers than swinging with Glissa. I did at one point have Thornbite Staff in here for a similar purpose. It just always ended up being mana expensive.
Next, I always absolutely adored the Salvaging Station package with this deck! snip
Perhaps the eggs I had in with the package were the wrong ones to have in here - there was little cantripping, which really meant I was durdling and achieving nothing. Lotus Bloom is supremely gross. That's a cool idea, and I can see how some of the spellbombs would make a nice addition too. It's worth thinking about adding that package back in maybe, although the decklist is tight. What would you cut?
I see you've got the Wurmcoil and Battlesphere, but friendly reminder that Scuttling Doom Engine is a pretty great clock here as well. People really don't like him being sacrificed on-demand.
I'd forgotten this guy existed. It could be awesome here and he's a dollar bin card. I can find space for him.
If you do decide to add Nim Deathmantle, then Su-Chi is a combo with an arbitrarily large number of sacrifices for you. You can replicate this with Cathodion if your sac outlet is KCI, Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar specifically. Same combo, but with fewer sac outlets so it's a little more restrictive. Once you assemble the engine though you can murder everybody else at the table with Bitter Ordeal.
I think I will try Deathmantle in here, it hasn't really popped in Varina. Su-Chi would be great, but again suffers from reserved list pricing at around $60 NZD. I'd probably be happier with Cathodion anyway, as I prefer not to lean into combo too heavily.
I definitely appreciate the thoughts, Glissa has been a challenge. As far as cuts go, what would you see as suitable to remove from the list? I feel like I'm too close to it, every time I pick up the deck I end up not being able to pull anything out of it.
Of the top of my head? Ratchet bomb is an easy cut here. I'd also kick o-stone to the curb, that's my own distaste but I've never liked it vs Nev Disk.
I think the gearhulks are great but I struggle to see what verdurous gearhulk is doing here. That's a cut.
Have you considered Grave Pact effects? If nothing else, every time you Pod you kill some creatures and get back some artifacts which seems pretty good.
Weak links?
Thunderfoot Baloth - You're slamming huge creatures not a bunch of tokens. He seems underwhelming.
Mage-Ring Network - This seems waaaay slow. I get you can dump extra mana in it while rattlesnaking with flash cards. But eh? There's got to be something better right?
Garruk Wildspeaker - Does he do enough? You're not really tapping lands during your turn anyway. I guess he's good with cradle?
Boring card recommendations - Sol Ring and tooth and nail. Everyone plays them because they're boringly good. I assume they'd be boringly good here too.
Less boring recommendation - Crop Rotation. I heard Gaea's Cradle is a good card, this effectively lets you play two of them. It also allow for some hilarious end of turn plays with Yeva. Flash in Cradle, make a ton of mana, flash in a lethal board that no one was expecting. If you're really on the Gaea's Cradle abuse train you can also add Magus of the Candelabra and Sylvan Scrying.
Speaking of cards that are good with Gaea's Crade, Wolfbriar Elemental can make a large army if you're generating as much mana as it looks like you want. It's super weak to wraths, but Yeva sidesteps that nicely.
Least boring recommendation - Hunting Pack. Not the most competitive but Hunting Pack could definitely be hilarious here since you're always holding up so much mana. Probably not worth it from a strict power level perspective, but definitely worth it for the look on the face of the first opponent you blow out with it.
The Ur-Dragon (WUBRG) - Changeling Combo Tribal
Chromium (WUB) - Artifact Beats
Progenitus (WUBRG) - Dredge
Damia, Sage of Stone (GBU) - Elf-storm Tendrils
My Cube Unpowered
My Peasant-ish/Tribal-ish Cube
Outcryqq: Roon of the Hidden Realm (Primer)
Roon, the flicker rhino. One may question how exactly they decided a rhinoceros with a basketball sized fist was the appropriate character to give the dainty ability to flicker things to and fro, but I would remind you that flickering cards is typically quite literally picking things up and putting them down. Gotta have those rhino biceps. Personally, my favorite card here is Venser, the Sojourner: the plus is on theme, and the ult terrifies people so much, they often (in my experience with Venser) forget that his -1 just sucker punches people to death. And the thread does claim it typically wins through combat.
That said, how did Brago, King Eternal do? I notice it was discussed and none said it was bad in the deck, but it is not in the deck of the first post.
Is farhaven elf better than Yavimaya Dryad and wood elves? The former is much better offensive card while the latter is better at accel. Is the problem that you do not have enough forests? Have you considered Scattered Groves and/or Canopy Vista. Both have draw backs, but also upsides that may make up for that.
Knight of Autumn seems better than Reclamation Sage or Qasali Pridemage to me.
Dream Fracture seems better than many of those 3 cost counters in multiplayer to me (exile is nice, but cards are typically better).
Yes, I was running Farhaven Elf due to what I considered a lack of forests, I think I did it as a snap decision after a game or two of failing to search with Wood Elves.
Knight of Autumn, in this deck, is a strict upgrade to Reclamation Sage. I think my deck actually made that swap but my list hasn’t reflected to update that.
My counter suite is mostly a meta call - my group has a few nasty reanimator decks (Meren of Clan Nel Toth and Karador, Ghost Chieftan). The exile is very relevant to beat something as dumb as a Spore Frog. But yes, in most instances, cards like Dream Fracture should be better.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears- This is the oldest current deck in my box, and the second one I ever created, so it's great to get it featured here.
- I try to focus as much as possible on the speed advantage of Yeva's flash ability.
- It's about 90% "flashy" (foiled). Missing Cavern of Souls, Gaea's Cradle, and Yavimaya Hollow cuz they're all insanely expensive.
- It's biggest weakness is flyers, which is a bit ironic given the original name of this format.
- My best memory with this deck is putting 16 creatures on the stack in response to a Gather Specimens on the blue player's own upkeep.
- Finally, wanted to send a shoutout to Iansisle for maintaining an excellent thread on this commander, and for giving me so many good ideas I hadn't thought of (looking at you, Timbermare).
- I finally got a Beast Whisperer the other day. I'll update the list shortly (and change some of the maybes that I don't have yet to acquires).
- I've never been a fan of Elvish Mystic, but then I tried Joraga Treespeaker after it overperformed in my cube, and it was like a green Sol Ring, so I kept it. The next one on my list is Karametra's Acolyte, but four mana is not a great spot on the curve for ramping. Probably need to re-evaluate my position on these ramp guys.
- The final level of Joraga Treespeaker was never really a goal, but the more I think about it, that just makes it a Wayfarer's Bauble or Diligent Farmhand, which are both still fine cards.
- Verdant Sun's Avatar was appealing for the fact that it gives life for every creature, and the deck can always respond to removal by putting a bunch of guys on the board and gaining a lot of life. I used to have a problem with life-gain, and this card solved that specific problem.
- Patron of the Orochi is here because it can untap everything on everyone else's turn, so it's almost a slightly lesser copy of Seedborn Muse, which is one of the best green cards in the format, and especially good here.
- I don't know why I haven't put a Dryad Arbor in here.
- Because I can play creatures whenever I want, Duskwatch Recruiter is really easy to flip. Even when it's not flipped, it's still a fine place to stick extra mana and refill.
- Magus of the Library was a recent addition, and unfortunately I don't get to play as much as I used to anymore, so I haven't actually cast it here yet.
- Primordial Sage was already on my cut list. Zendikar Resurgent hasn't made it in yet because I try to cram as many creatures as possible to take fullest advantage of Yeva.
- Lotus Cobra never really came up on my radar because it always felt like an inconsistent way to gain extra mana, and I don't run many fetches in here.
- Ulvenwald Hydra has three jobs: find Cradle and Nykthos, help out against flyers, and beat face. It does all three very well.
- Bramble Sovereign would probably be a solid addition. Cloudstone Curio and Panharmonicon are not creatures, so as good as they are, it will be harder to justify them. Wirewood Symbiote feels like more of a safety blanket for Yeva than anything else.
- Shamanic Revelation is neither a creature nor an instant, so it doesn't really fit in a deck built on speed.
- Thunderfoot Baloth is there for the power boost and the trample in a single card. There are other global anthems out there, but most of them only last for one turn, and there are other global trample effects out there, but none of them do both.
- Garruk Wildspeaker is always relevant, and gets to Overrun after just one turn. I did just pick up a Garruk, Caller of Beasts, at the suggestion of Iansisle, so I'll probably try that out in the near future (in place of Primordial Sage).
- Manglehorn is kind of a meta call. There isn't a dedicated artifact deck in my local group right now, so I feel like I have enough removal.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
The one card that sticks out to me in this list is Armada Wurm. I understand its purpose, but I find it difficult to believe that a pair of mostly vanilla bodies is worthy of a slot in a three-color deck with access to so many different possible cards. Also, that casting cost seems a little tricky for my taste. Can't think of a better replacement at this time, but one has to be out there...
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Speaking as a primer authour, I don't think primer status should be a disqualifer from discussion honestly. Yes, we've worked for years, (for some of us a near decade even) on the deck so the likelihood of missing obvious cards is pretty low, but that doesn't absolve us of any margin for error. This thread also doesn't have to be about card selection, but also on the strategy of the deck in question. Play rate, good match ups/bad match ups, and ways for improvement on said bad matches. I.e. I know I've pretty well given up on improving my sub10% win rate vs Esper inside of Kaalia, but I still value the possible avenues of attack I never considered from others. Even if they end up not making it into the deck (for whatever reason), having something I never considered is an appreciated last chance.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The one card that sticks out to me in this list is Armada Wurm. I understand its purpose, but I find it difficult to believe that a pair of mostly vanilla bodies is worthy of a slot in a three-color deck with access to so many different possible cards. Also, that casting cost seems a little tricky for my taste. Can't think of a better replacement at this time, but one has to be out there...[/quote]
Actually tstorm had a good suggestion that he (she?) posted in my thread - Precursor Golem. But yes, good call, it is probably subpar.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI second this. Having my deck recently featured gave me some great new perspective, even on something I've had for years. Nothing wrong with taking a new look at an old favorite.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
He, but I can certainly imagine the lovely lady in my avatar being misleading.
There are definitely downsides to Precursor Golem, but it's cool and weird and easy to cast.
Totally agree. As part of the committee, I can say that while most people try to make their primers the definitive guide to playing said commander, most commanders are buildable in different contexts, and there's plenty of scope for variation. A perfect example is my Nissa build, which will come up here at some point. It does what it does fine, but there is another existing primer for the same commander that does different things entirely. Not only that, a lot of making a thread primer-worthy comes down to clean and concise presentation of your information and a well-maintained thread. TL;DR - your list may be closer to primer level than you think, and if you want to apply for primer status you should. We're not there to tell you no, we're there to help you make it happen, so if you're interested definitely apply
I've had a look at Outcry's build before - my wife runs Roon, and it's easily her most oppressive deck, capable of infinite mana with ease, and easily able to more or less lock someone out of the game. This build looks really, really solid. I can't actually see anything I'd suggest overly. I guess there's options to reduce the cost of Roon's ability with things like Illusionist's Bracers, Training Grounds, Biomancer's Familiar, but they all seem a little surplus to requirements.
I agree that Armada Wurm is a little subpar, and Precursor Golem is the king of exponential math in the right place. There's also the obvious 'if you're running Karmic and 'Lark, why no Saffi?', but you don't have a ton of ETB triggers to abuse so that probably covers that. Also, do you have a way to abuse Coalition Relic? Without proliferate or an untap source it seems like you'd be just fine with Darksteel Ingot, or possibly better with Crystalline Crawler.
Aside from these, I see three of my all time favourite creatures in the deck and it makes me happy:
Perplexing Chimera is so much damn fun. Seemingly casual, but when it becomes crucial it can really save your ass and I love it.
Ixidron is the most abnormal 'removal' that exists, and I'm really pleased to see it here.
Mangara of Corondor is a straight up, muthaf*ckin boss machine gun.
I can see what you are saying and many seems ro agree, so it matters little what I think, but if we restrict discussion about a deck to ones that have played with that commander before (which is basically required in order to discuss matchups or most things beyond cards - heck even cards get somewhat annoying when you have to search through the thread for discussions on the cards), we do risk killing the thread - only one so far has seemingly played Roon for instance and the value of the thread would decrease a lot if only one or two posted per deck.
I see what you are saying. But as a primer author whose deck is up right now, I can tell you that I still appreciate feedback and fresh perspectives, even if it’s just “you should try X card”, and even if that card has been discussed before. Traffic to my thread and getting people interested in Roon are both big boons for me and my thread. I do not want people to be discouraged from posting about my Roon deck just because they haven’t played the deck - rather the opposite. I’ve had back-and-forth conversations with lots of regulars on my thread, and I’d love some new opinions! Feel free to drop by.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsThis deck seems tailor-made for a Training Grounds. Didn't see any discussion of it in your thread, but it does serious work for me in Scarab God.
Lastly, a friend of mine used to have a Roon deck and he mentioned that one of his most underrated cards was Loxodon Warhammer. He said that it solved a lot of specific problems and shored up a lot of weaknesses. Might be something to try out.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Loxodon Warhammer is something I had in my short-lived Roon deck as well, and if your friend's experience is like mine, the weakness being shored up is lack of win condition. Roon innately has the ability to flicker a creature blocking it and trample through like nothing was ever there, and 7 power is really the magic number for commander damage.
You're right, Spell Crumple lost most of its appeal when the tuck rule came into being. I'll probably replace with Counterspell.
Training Grounds is good and should probably be in the deck. I have my only copy in a Sliver deck currently, so I just make do with other cards I have available.
Loxodon Warhammer is great and I use it in multiple decks. I'm wondering if your friend plays against a lot of agro decks, as I'm typically losing with this deck to something worse than incremental damage. Does he have a more agro-oriented deck?
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI'm also a big fan of Toothy, Imaginary Friend in my Brago, King Eternal blink deck, although the wording on Roon may make this less attractive (Roon puts the creature back into play end of turn versus immediately, so Toothy wouldn't be in play when you draw the cards off it). It still works very well with Eldrazi Displacer, Deadeye Navigator, and Conjurer's Closet though, so maybe its worth a look.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearstoctheyounger77: Glissa, the Traitor - midrange Birthing Pod toolbox build
In this particular build of Glissa, the Traitor, most of what I presume are the primary targets for Glissa's triggered ability are actually artifact creatures, built into a tidy utility Birthing Pod chain. If you're anything like me, you will look over this and think "huh, I've never seen a Glissa player without Executioner's Capsule" (or some similar card), but if you'd like to save yourself that momentary confusion, there's actually a second decklist spoilered in the thread of an older build that may contain the cards you're expecting to see. The list that's prominently displayed may have some things you're not expecting, like instead of that Capsule, you get a Noxious Geahulk.
So, I'm happy this one came up as a Glissa connoisseur or as I was in a previous life before choosing to live in the heat of draconic flames (fyi, I think that's somewhere in the Mountains of Shiv, about 72 Klicks out from my Nomad Outpost on Tarkir).
First suggestion is really like the rule 0 of Glissa decks. You never start this build without Guardian Beast, and this is the one deck where I'd argue his reserved list pricing is still far, far worth it. Adding a Darksteel Plate to this guy makes a pseudo Darksteel Forge for half the mana which is quite good. Pretty hard to justify playing the deck without this guy (impossible for me, in all actuality).
So, some of the suggestions I've come to enjoy were Viridian Longbow because often opponents read your cards and won't attack into your great wall of deathtouch. This allows you to gtet your triggers and pick off annoying pests that shouldn't stick to the board.
Next, I always absolutely adored the Salvaging Station package with this deck! This was the best deck for the Station that couldn't play Artificier's Intuition for a number of reasons, the best of which because Lotus Bloom becomes a reusable, legal Black Lotus here. And if that's not enough convincing (how could it not be), you can also keep graveyard decks super, super honest with the (I see you already have) Nihil Spellbomb, but you can also make great use of Phyrexian Furnace and Scrabbling Claws. In general I find your lack of more cantripping artifacts somewhat jarring, I'd at least feel better about this deck including
a Moriok Replica(whoops, missed that on first read) and Horizon Spellbomb. Maybe some other artifact sac outlets (KCI comes to mind) though I was quite partial to Grinding Station, which both sacs your spellbombs (that you can still draw on) and puts more Glissa targets in the 'Yard for better selection. Oh, and you can also make people regret wrathing you with Lifespark Spellbomb activations (or cycle it when not needed, or add extra power to your board or whatever) while Necrogen Spellbomb can soft lock someone's draw step, or again, cycle when not needed. Station is super super good, and even better here, people will learn to respect it after they're done hating what kind of machine you've constructed here.I think this naturally irritates people and they will want to send aggro your way (or they just don't like me ), so low mana answers to them are necessary. I'd call the E-Capsule you addressed already a corre piece (I'd play it alongside Gearhulk, not replace it with Gearhulk) because sometimes you need to answer things for under six mana and at instant speed. I'd also suggest with all these sacrifices, that Fangren Marauder does a terrific job of keeping our life totals in a nice and healthy range; do not be mislead by his ugly "5/5 for 6" stats, he more than pulls his weight once your sacrificing. Note if you're trying to soak damage, Forcefield is not worth buying into. Holding up 1 for every creature and still letting them trigger their swords and jittes is a pretty miserable experience for the money that thing commands normally, in my experiences.
I see you've got the Wurmcoil and Battlesphere, but friendly reminder that Scuttling Doom Engine is a pretty great clock here as well. People really don't like him being sacrificed on-demand.
If you do decide to add Nim Deathmantle, then Su-Chi is a combo with an arbitrarily large number of sacrifices for you. You can replicate this with Cathodion if your sac outlet is KCI, Ashnod's Altar or Phyrexian Altar specifically. Same combo, but with fewer sac outlets so it's a little more restrictive. Once you assemble the engine though you can murder everybody else at the table with Bitter Ordeal.
Once again, I hope I didn't come off too harsh on you.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Not at all! Glissa has proved a deck I enjoy playing but have struggled to build effectively, and it's been tough to get clear idea of where I wanted it to go, so I appreciate the feedback. As it is at present, I'm at a place where I'm fairly happy but have no idea where to make cuts, so that's made things tough on its own. First world problems, I guess.
This guy looks like a shoe in. Clearly really strong, and I can see why he's worth the money. Still, he's close around $650 here, so he's probably a pipe dream unless my life gets all Dickens-esque and a long lost family member dies and bequeaths me a small fortune. It could happen!
I like it as being a superior way to get triggers than swinging with Glissa. I did at one point have Thornbite Staff in here for a similar purpose. It just always ended up being mana expensive.
Perhaps the eggs I had in with the package were the wrong ones to have in here - there was little cantripping, which really meant I was durdling and achieving nothing. Lotus Bloom is supremely gross. That's a cool idea, and I can see how some of the spellbombs would make a nice addition too. It's worth thinking about adding that package back in maybe, although the decklist is tight. What would you cut?
I'd forgotten this guy existed. It could be awesome here and he's a dollar bin card. I can find space for him.
I think I will try Deathmantle in here, it hasn't really popped in Varina. Su-Chi would be great, but again suffers from reserved list pricing at around $60 NZD. I'd probably be happier with Cathodion anyway, as I prefer not to lean into combo too heavily.
I definitely appreciate the thoughts, Glissa has been a challenge. As far as cuts go, what would you see as suitable to remove from the list? I feel like I'm too close to it, every time I pick up the deck I end up not being able to pull anything out of it.
I think the gearhulks are great but I struggle to see what verdurous gearhulk is doing here. That's a cut.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Dragonlover
Lathliss Dragon Queen - All dragons all the time!
Mono-White Mono-Legends
Ruhan of the Fomori
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
Storrev, Devkarin Lich