So... I am in the process of making a colorless eldrazi commander deck and I would like to know the absolute necessities to put in there. I have a bunch that I know of but would like feedback from you guys.
I've a Kozilek deck (I switch up which of the two), and the most important thing is to run pretty much every decently efficient mana rock you can get you hands on. Even otherwise mediocre cards like Sisay's Ring are very good when not only are you looking to play a 10 drop ASAP, but also said 10 drop will refill you hand to make up for playing all the rocks.
This latter point is why I would recommend one of the Kozileks as your general - of all the Eldrazi titan's abilities to have in the command zone, card draw is the most useful IMO as the typical gameplay of a big mana colourless deck will leave you very short on cards.
Rings of brighthearth and basalt monolith generates infinite colorless mana.
As for win cons. Casting big fat eldrazi can be a win con on its own. However you will be playing a lot or artifacts, blinkmoth urn can generate you a LOT of mana.
The deck i ran could get kozi out as early as turn 3.
Other win cons are things that can do x damage. Like rocket launcher. You could also run darksteel reactor as a win but that takes 20 turns to go off. Too long. Luxkily you also have access to dark depths. With mana generation, that is an early 20/20
And what are the most efficient mana rocks? And are there colorless cards to create infinite mana or would a color have to be involved?
There are a few ways to create infinite mana in colorless. Rings of Brighthearth + Basalt Monolith, Voltaic Construct + your choice of artifact creature tapping for 3+ (Metalworker, Karn, Silver Golem + Thran Dynamo), etc. You're generally looking for untap or copy effects alongside artifacts that tap for multiple mana and those are frequently worth including already. That said, I agree with PhroX. You're probably better off just running a high density of mana rocks. It's more reliable given the lack of tutoring options in colorless and if you're running with either Kozilek you're refilling your hand as soon as they come down. It's also more difficult to disrupt a wider board of mana rocks than a combo.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
The rings of brighthearth + basalt monolith combo is activating the three on basalt the. Paying 2 to copy the ability leaving one mana in the pool and just continuing copying the ability?
The rings of brighthearth + basalt monolith combo is activating the three on basalt the. Paying 2 to copy the ability leaving one mana in the pool and just continuing copying the ability?
Rings can't copy the mana ability. You need 2 mana plus untapped Monolith to start. Tap Monolith for 3, then use that activate the untap ability on Monolith. Copy the untap with Rings, let the copied untap resolve, tap Monolith for 3 more, then let the original untap resolve. You're back to where you started but with three additional mana in your mana pool, which pays for the Rings trigger the next time around with 1 remaining. Repeat indefinitely for +1 mana on each iteration of the loop.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
That’s a super complicated setup but will confuse others a lot. But I plan on running a lot of rocks and a few infinite combos for mana to help drop big eldrazi. Any creatures or anything that absolutely needs to be included?
It's really not that complicated, and it's a well-known combo. You spend a total of 5 to activate and copy Monolith's untap ability, allowing you to tap it twice for 6.
Mana abilities are kinds of activated abilities and triggered abilities that don't use the stack and therefore can't be copied. Basalt Monolith's T is a mana ability and therefore Rings of Brighthearth doesn't interact with that ability.
So I’m seeing that any artifact or land that states: “add one mana of any color” does not work because of colorless not being a color. Fellwar Stone is a prime example in its ruling.
So I’m seeing that any artifact or land that states: “add one mana of any color” does not work because of colorless not being a color. Fellwar Stone is a prime example in its ruling.
No, Fellwar stone works fine.
You just can't add mana of the colour of your commander because your commander has no colours. So no Commander's Sphere or Command Tower, for example.
Kyren Toy is an odd little rock that I like running. Note that X can be zero, so it can always tap for 1.
With all the rocks, Paradox Engine is unsurprisingly brilliant, and can go infinite with Strionic Resonator, (which itself is a good card in the deck considering the cast and attack triggers many of the eldrazi have) or Sensei's Divining Top and Voltaic Key (both no-brainers to run).
Warping Wail is fun. Having a way to stop Vandalblast or Austere Command is a godsend. And on that note, Torpor Orb, a very strong card in general, is wonderful against Bane of Progress while not affecting many things you would be wanting to run. And on the subject of Orbs, why not Winter Orb? You're getting more mana from rocks than lands.
For a Kozilek deck in particular (as you have a reliable way to refill your hand), Null Brooch is another strong piece of interaction.
“10/4/2004 It only produces one mana even if the land can produce more than one.
10/4/2004 This works even if the opponent’s lands are tapped. It only checks what kinds of mana can be produced, not if the abilities that produce them are usable right now.
10/4/2004 The ability can be activated if the opponent has no lands that produce mana, but the effect will not be able to generate any mana.
10/1/2009 The colors of mana are white, blue, black, red, and green. Fellwar Stone can’t be tapped for colorless mana, even if a land an opponent controls could produce colorless mana.
10/1/2009 Fellwar Stone checks the effects of all mana-producing abilities of lands your opponents control, but it doesn’t check their costs. For example, Vivid Crag has the ability “, Remove a charge counter from Vivid Crag: Add one mana of any color.” If an opponent controls Vivid Crag and you control Fellwar Stone, you can tap Fellwar Stone for any color of mana. It doesn’t matter whether Vivid Crag has a charge counter on it, and it doesn’t matter whether it’s untapped.
10/1/2009 When determining what colors of mana your opponents’ lands could produce, take into account any applicable replacement effects that would apply to those lands’ mana abilities (such as Contamination’s effect, for example). If there is more than one, consider them in any possible order.
10/1/2009 Fellwar Stone doesn’t care about any restrictions or riders your opponents’ lands (such as Ancient Ziggurat or Hall of the Bandit Lord) put on the mana they produce. It just cares about colors of mana.”
Fellwar Stone becomes tapped, and you have opponents that can produce UBG via their lands. What Fellwar does is produce THAT mana(one only of UBG), and that can then be used in whatever spell you have(save for colorless manaC).
Now, if you had Fellwar out, and your entire pod(or last opponent) only had Wastes or Strip Mine or theUrza-tron out, then yes...it could not produce that colorless mana.
When it says as long as it’s not a mana ability does that mean That if it produces mana you can’t copy it or you can’t copy it if it spends mana?
Mana abilities are either activated abilities which produce mana (except for planeswalker loyalty abilities, such as Xenagos, the Reveler's +1 or Koth of the Hammer's -2) or triggered abilities which produce mana and are triggered by the production of mana, e.g. Fertile Ground, Caged Sun.
Mana abilities cannot be responded to.
By the way, spells which produce mana, such as Dark Ritual, can be responded to, at least in this century.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
So I could take a colored mana from someone else and use it as colorless?
No, you could use it as generic mana. Mana from a Fellwar Stone could pay for part of the 8 in Kozilek, the Great Distortion's cost, but it could not be used to pay for either of the C. In a colorless deck, though, it should not be difficult to come up with CC, so that tiny limitation is mostly irrelevant. More relevant if you tried to use several "any color" mana sources (like Fellwar Stone) to cast a cheaper spell with C in its cost like Spatial Contortion, Warping Wail, or Matter Reshaper. You could not, for example, cast Warping Wail off a Fellwar Stone and a City of Brass. But you could cast Warping Wail with Fellwar Stone and a Wastes.
This latter point is why I would recommend one of the Kozileks as your general - of all the Eldrazi titan's abilities to have in the command zone, card draw is the most useful IMO as the typical gameplay of a big mana colourless deck will leave you very short on cards.
As for win cons. Casting big fat eldrazi can be a win con on its own. However you will be playing a lot or artifacts, blinkmoth urn can generate you a LOT of mana.
The deck i ran could get kozi out as early as turn 3.
Other win cons are things that can do x damage. Like rocket launcher. You could also run darksteel reactor as a win but that takes 20 turns to go off. Too long. Luxkily you also have access to dark depths. With mana generation, that is an early 20/20
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
What is your budget?
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Grim Monolith
I think you should have at least 20 mana rocks.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Opal
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Doubling Cube
1 Grim Monolith
1 Thought Vessel
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Inspiring Statuary (gives my artifacts improvise)
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Hedron Archive
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Ur-Golem's Eye
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Dreamstone Hedron
Competitive
GUWB Thrasios/Tymna Breakfast Hulk GUWB - RGBW Tana/Tymna Blood Pod - URGAnimar, Soul of ElementsURG - UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU
Tuned
UBG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant (Write Up) UBG-BG The Gitrog Monster BG-UG Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca UG - UBG Muldrota, the Gravetide UBG - UBW Varina, Lich Queen UBW - RB Xantcha, Sleeper Agent RB - UB Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow UB - GWURafiq of the Many GWU - WUB Oloro, Ageless Lich WUB - GUBRKydele, Chosen of Kruphix and Vial Smasher The Fierce GUBR - BG Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB - WB Athreos, God of Passage WB - UBThe Scarab God UB - UBRMarchesa, the Affinity RoseUBR - UBGTasigur, the Golden FangUBG - GSelvala, Heart of the WildsG - BRGrusilda, Monster MasherBR - BChainer, Dementia MasterB - WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG - URMizzix's Thousand Year StormUR - RGOmnath, Locust of RageRG - GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU - WUBrago, King EternalWU
Legecy Decks
W Death and Taxes W-C Eldrazi Stompy C-R Mono Red Prison R-U MerfolkU
Be careful not to play Commander's Sphere, it doesn't tap for mana in a colorless deck.
Other options to play are Astral Cornucopia, coalition relic, Fellwar Stone, Pyramid of the Pantheon, Worn Powerstone, Palladium Myr, Burnished Hart, solemn simulacrum... you can even play Blinkmoth Urn. Also Eldrazi Temple and Eye of Ugin.
Aside from that, you want to include spells that can deal with opponent's things. Karn Liberated is ideal, but very expensive. Ugin, the spirit dragon is amazing.
But you can also play Steel Hellkite, All is Dust, Meteor Golem, Duplicant,
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
No, Fellwar stone works fine.
You just can't add mana of the colour of your commander because your commander has no colours. So no Commander's Sphere or Command Tower, for example.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Kyren Toy is an odd little rock that I like running. Note that X can be zero, so it can always tap for 1.
With all the rocks, Paradox Engine is unsurprisingly brilliant, and can go infinite with Strionic Resonator, (which itself is a good card in the deck considering the cast and attack triggers many of the eldrazi have) or Sensei's Divining Top and Voltaic Key (both no-brainers to run).
Warping Wail is fun. Having a way to stop Vandalblast or Austere Command is a godsend. And on that note, Torpor Orb, a very strong card in general, is wonderful against Bane of Progress while not affecting many things you would be wanting to run. And on the subject of Orbs, why not Winter Orb? You're getting more mana from rocks than lands.
For a Kozilek deck in particular (as you have a reliable way to refill your hand), Null Brooch is another strong piece of interaction.
“10/4/2004 It only produces one mana even if the land can produce more than one.
10/4/2004 This works even if the opponent’s lands are tapped. It only checks what kinds of mana can be produced, not if the abilities that produce them are usable right now.
10/4/2004 The ability can be activated if the opponent has no lands that produce mana, but the effect will not be able to generate any mana.
10/1/2009 The colors of mana are white, blue, black, red, and green. Fellwar Stone can’t be tapped for colorless mana, even if a land an opponent controls could produce colorless mana.
10/1/2009 Fellwar Stone checks the effects of all mana-producing abilities of lands your opponents control, but it doesn’t check their costs. For example, Vivid Crag has the ability “, Remove a charge counter from Vivid Crag: Add one mana of any color.” If an opponent controls Vivid Crag and you control Fellwar Stone, you can tap Fellwar Stone for any color of mana. It doesn’t matter whether Vivid Crag has a charge counter on it, and it doesn’t matter whether it’s untapped.
10/1/2009 When determining what colors of mana your opponents’ lands could produce, take into account any applicable replacement effects that would apply to those lands’ mana abilities (such as Contamination’s effect, for example). If there is more than one, consider them in any possible order.
10/1/2009 Fellwar Stone doesn’t care about any restrictions or riders your opponents’ lands (such as Ancient Ziggurat or Hall of the Bandit Lord) put on the mana they produce. It just cares about colors of mana.”
Reading the fourth ruling states otherwise.
Fellwar Stone becomes tapped, and you have opponents that can produce UBG via their lands. What Fellwar does is produce THAT mana(one only of UBG), and that can then be used in whatever spell you have(save for colorless manaC).
Now, if you had Fellwar out, and your entire pod(or last opponent) only had Wastes or Strip Mine or the Urza-tron out, then yes...it could not produce that colorless mana.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
Mana abilities are either activated abilities which produce mana (except for planeswalker loyalty abilities, such as Xenagos, the Reveler's +1 or Koth of the Hammer's -2) or triggered abilities which produce mana and are triggered by the production of mana, e.g. Fertile Ground, Caged Sun.
Mana abilities cannot be responded to.
By the way, spells which produce mana, such as Dark Ritual, can be responded to, at least in this century.
On phasing:
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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