Recently, I (or we) have run into a problem where our games just don't end. We literally durdle each other into a standstill and 3-hour games are becoming the norm. This is in part because of recent additions to the metagame, such as Celestial Kirin Turbo-Fog, Ishkanah, Grafwidow Spiders, Lord Windgrace "Lands Durdle", Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim Lifegain Control and Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca Counter-Fish.
It wasn't always this way. Games used to end on turn 5 or 6 when I was playing Rakdos, Lord of Riots versus Kaalia of the Vast or Animar, Soul of Elements. Now these decks get chewed up by board wipes, fogs and lock pieces and there is no one left to progress the game.
So, what's next?
We aren't the kind of playgroup to ban anything or tell people what to bring to the table. Everyone gets to play what they want.
We have one friend who's been winning a lot lately because he runs 2-card combos like Zealous Conscripts/Kiki-Jiki or Sanguine Bond/ Exquisite Blood. I personally don't like running them because I don't like how they play, but don't have a problem playing against them. This got me thinking: Is this the answer to a durdle-fest? Should I/we start running some combos to simply end games on the spot? It still requires skill and timing to do so and could help steer us into a new direction without having to revamp completely what we bring to the table.
My favorite speed-the-game-up commander, for sure, has been kaervek, the merciless. You can check the link in my sig (if you can find it, lol. Control + F is your friend) for my version.
The important part is the self-imposed "rules":
When an opponent casts a spell, they get to choose Kaervek's target, so long as:
-The spell doesn't screw you over (if it does, kaervek targets their stuff/them)
-The choice of Kaervek target doesn't screw you over (if it does, kaervek targets their stuff/them)
-The game isn't about to end
At least in my experience, this results in people throwing out spells with wild abandon to knock down each others' board states and savage their life totals, while mostly leaving kaervek alone. And the rest of the deck is almost entirely mana to get kaervek out as quickly and frequently as possible, along with equipment and enchantments that make his ability even more savage.
To be fair, it seems your meta has gone from one end of the extreme to the other and neither is really preferable. At least, I know I wouldn't want to be in a 3 hour game but I *also* would not want games to end by turn 6 on a frequent basis. Perhaps the shift in the meta was more of an "overcorrection" to games ending too soon? Which of course means going back to those types of decks might be something to avoid.
Is this a concern for your group? Are the games dragging on simply because they want them to last longer compared to the ones that ended on turn 5 or 6? If so, trying to find something in the middle is likely where you want to be. Maybe an aggressive Simic build? This gives you ways to end the game (Tooth and Nail; Craterhoof; etc.) as well as ways to try to stop the board from constantly being wrathed. Selesnya can be similar in that you get Avacyn, Teferi's Protection, Heroic Intervention, etc. to, again, stop wraths.
If fogs are a problem, red seems the way to go. Gruul, Boros, or maybe Izzet (though not as much) can provide aggressive strategies along with ways to get through fogs (red has a bunch of "damage can't be prevented" effects for example). Green gives you Heroic Intervention and White gives you Boros Charm and Teferi's Protection. These all ensure your board sticks around.
Green also gives you toolbox elements and Bane of Progress. I mention that because I assume at least some "lock pieces" are artifacts or enchantments and Bane can be useful to get rid of them (assuming you can find a way to land a 6 mana creature amid the lock pieces).
And, as you mentioned, combo is another answer. And it doesn't have to be infinite combos or a deck dedicated to a combo. I personally don't like infinite combos (it sounds like you don't either) but adding one or two into your deck(s) can help end the games quicker. Tooth and Nail, which I mentioned above, can be used to "combo" out a table without it necessarily being an infinite combo. There are other ways to use combos that are not infinite if you choose to stay away from infinites, but they are a resource you can use to help end the current game and start the next one.
I am going to agree with avoiding building hard combo but the semi combo of the "big play" is what it seems like your meta needs. Typically what I feel a good commander game is a bunch of set up into a series of "big plays" which all get answered until one doesn't.
I am going to agree with the play red idea, either red or green utilising effects such as Craterhoof Behemoth that board stall breaking power. But to be honest any colour can do it. Black can rise of the dark realms for example.
If it weren't for the Fog deck I'd of suggested Zirilan of the claw all he can do is big plays, but playing against fog sucks.
Why not play teams instead of all-on-all multiplayer? I know EDH is sort of default massively multiplayer but I think you'll find a lot of problems solved when there is one side against another.
we ran into the same problem in our group and we've tried a few different things over the years
we tried 2v2, it was horrible. every deck turned into time warps but at least the games ended fast. newer people hated it (with good reason) and it did tremendous damage to our edh night as we couldn't retain any new blood. two strong players would be oppressive, and if you ended up partnered with someone not as good, or with a weaker deck, forget it you might as well not play.
what has naturally happened since we gave up on that was that yes, people started including more ways to WIN. we would discuss things, we still do, and ultimately the consensus is that... well the game has to end.
combo helps give the deck a goal and speed that end along. almost everyone packs something. maybe not many combos, but a few, just to close out games. ultimately we've seen interactivity increase. what happens is that guy is going to combo, so i need to run ways to stop him, i'm going to combo, so i need to run ways to protect it. the games become much more dynamic than 30 craw wurms lining up or sitting there fogging every turn. we tend to play 4-6 games a night now instead of 1-2.
new players *****, they moan and complain still, but some of them join the discussion and actually start pushing their decks. i've seen more silver bullets pop up lately than i ever have before, and the games where everyone is on the same page become intense but don't carry on all night.
what happens a lot when you start running things just to try and stop their durdliness is that they just run more ways to maintain it. if you want to shift things you have to push a different angle.
the problem with combo isn't that its cheap or lame or anything like that, its actually that it becomes oppressive in a group where no one changes their deck to embrace the fact that it exists. when you find ways to combo out and not get mired in durdletown, but your opponents don't bother to adapt.
To be fair, it seems your meta has gone from one end of the extreme to the other and neither is really preferable. At least, I know I wouldn't want to be in a 3 hour game but I *also* would not want games to end by turn 6 on a frequent basis. Perhaps the shift in the meta was more of an "overcorrection" to games ending too soon? Which of course means going back to those types of decks might be something to avoid.
Is this a concern for your group? Are the games dragging on simply because they want them to last longer compared to the ones that ended on turn 5 or 6? If so, trying to find something in the middle is likely where you want to be. Maybe an aggressive Simic build? This gives you ways to end the game (Tooth and Nail; Craterhoof; etc.) as well as ways to try to stop the board from constantly being wrathed. Selesnya can be similar in that you get Avacyn, Teferi's Protection, Heroic Intervention, etc. to, again, stop wraths.
This is spot-on. The shift has been happening over the last 2 years or so.
This is a concern for us because we have limited time to play every week. we have a 4-6 hour window to get as many games in as possible, and lately we haven't been able to finish more than one game in an evening. Something more in the middle would be preferable.
If fogs are a problem, red seems the way to go. Gruul, Boros, or maybe Izzet (though not as much) can provide aggressive strategies along with ways to get through fogs (red has a bunch of "damage can't be prevented" effects for example). Green gives you Heroic Intervention and White gives you Boros Charm and Teferi's Protection. These all ensure your board sticks around.
Green also gives you toolbox elements and Bane of Progress. I mention that because I assume at least some "lock pieces" are artifacts or enchantments and Bane can be useful to get rid of them (assuming you can find a way to land a 6 mana creature amid the lock pieces).
And, as you mentioned, combo is another answer. And it doesn't have to be infinite combos or a deck dedicated to a combo. I personally don't like infinite combos (it sounds like you don't either) but adding one or two into your deck(s) can help end the games quicker. Tooth and Nail, which I mentioned above, can be used to "combo" out a table without it necessarily being an infinite combo. There are other ways to use combos that are not infinite if you choose to stay away from infinites, but they are a resource you can use to help end the current game and start the next one.
Gonna be honest, I'm the guy running the fogs... I am definitely part of the problem and intend to change...
Having more proactive answers seems nice, and I especially like that I was somewhat on track with the idea of combo, though not dedicating a deck to it seems wise. Just out of curiosity, using only green cards, what would Tooth and Nail fetch to end the game? I imagine the first card is Craterhoof Behemoth, but what's the second?
I am going to agree with avoiding building hard combo but the semi combo of the "big play" is what it seems like your meta needs. Typically what I feel a good commander game is a bunch of set up into a series of "big plays" which all get answered until one doesn't.
I am going to agree with the play red idea, either red or green utilising effects such as Craterhoof Behemoth that board stall breaking power. But to be honest any colour can do it. Black can rise of the dark realms for example.
If it weren't for the Fog deck I'd of suggested Zirilan of the claw all he can do is big plays, but playing against fog sucks.
Thanks for the great suggestions. I really think it's those "big plays" that our current decks are lacking to close out games and move on.
I'll have to do some research and find something. My friends are all very open to suggestions for their decks and take criticism very well, which is nice. We can always talk about how our games are going.
we ran into the same problem in our group and we've tried a few different things over the years
we tried 2v2, it was horrible. every deck turned into time warps but at least the games ended fast. newer people hated it (with good reason) and it did tremendous damage to our edh night as we couldn't retain any new blood. two strong players would be oppressive, and if you ended up partnered with someone not as good, or with a weaker deck, forget it you might as well not play.
This is really good to know, thank you for sharing. I was planning on suggesting 2v2, but will avoid it now.
what has naturally happened since we gave up on that was that yes, people started including more ways to WIN. we would discuss things, we still do, and ultimately the consensus is that... well the game has to end.
combo helps give the deck a goal and speed that end along. almost everyone packs something. maybe not many combos, but a few, just to close out games. ultimately we've seen interactivity increase. what happens is that guy is going to combo, so i need to run ways to stop him, i'm going to combo, so i need to run ways to protect it. the games become much more dynamic than 30 craw wurms lining up or sitting there fogging every turn. we tend to play 4-6 games a night now instead of 1-2.
new players *****, they moan and complain still, but some of them join the discussion and actually start pushing their decks. i've seen more silver bullets pop up lately than i ever have before, and the games where everyone is on the same page become intense but don't carry on all night.
what happens a lot when you start running things just to try and stop their durdliness is that they just run more ways to maintain it. if you want to shift things you have to push a different angle.
the problem with combo isn't that its cheap or lame or anything like that, its actually that it becomes oppressive in a group where no one changes their deck to embrace the fact that it exists. when you find ways to combo out and not get mired in durdletown, but your opponents don't bother to adapt.
This is all great advice and pretty much in line with what a lot of people and myself are thinking. We should all be packing some sort of inevitability that allows us to win. I'm really craving that dymanic game that we've been lacking over the last few weeks.
I trust that my friends will all adapt well to change; we always do. It's just been a particularly rough patch these days. Thanks for the great advice and insight from your personal experience!
Having more proactive answers seems nice, and I especially like that I was somewhat on track with the idea of combo, though not dedicating a deck to it seems wise. Just out of curiosity, using only green cards, what would Tooth and Nail fetch to end the game? I imagine the first card is Craterhoof Behemoth, but what's the second?
I usually think of red cards to go with T&N (when not trying for an "infinite" combo). Purphoros, God of the Forge and Avenger. Or Ogre Battledriver with Avenger. Since Red also gives you Urabrask the Hidden and other haste enablers, the Craterhoof/Avenger play could be more consistent.
To be fair, it seems your meta has gone from one end of the extreme to the other and neither is really preferable. At least, I know I wouldn't want to be in a 3 hour game but I *also* would not want games to end by turn 6 on a frequent basis. Perhaps the shift in the meta was more of an "overcorrection" to games ending too soon? Which of course means going back to those types of decks might be something to avoid.
Is this a concern for your group? Are the games dragging on simply because they want them to last longer compared to the ones that ended on turn 5 or 6? If so, trying to find something in the middle is likely where you want to be. Maybe an aggressive Simic build? This gives you ways to end the game (Tooth and Nail; Craterhoof; etc.) as well as ways to try to stop the board from constantly being wrathed. Selesnya can be similar in that you get Avacyn, Teferi's Protection, Heroic Intervention, etc. to, again, stop wraths.
This is spot-on. The shift has been happening over the last 2 years or so.
This is a concern for us because we have limited time to play every week. we have a 4-6 hour window to get as many games in as possible, and lately we haven't been able to finish more than one game in an evening. Something more in the middle would be preferable.
If fogs are a problem, red seems the way to go. Gruul, Boros, or maybe Izzet (though not as much) can provide aggressive strategies along with ways to get through fogs (red has a bunch of "damage can't be prevented" effects for example). Green gives you Heroic Intervention and White gives you Boros Charm and Teferi's Protection. These all ensure your board sticks around.
Green also gives you toolbox elements and Bane of Progress. I mention that because I assume at least some "lock pieces" are artifacts or enchantments and Bane can be useful to get rid of them (assuming you can find a way to land a 6 mana creature amid the lock pieces).
And, as you mentioned, combo is another answer. And it doesn't have to be infinite combos or a deck dedicated to a combo. I personally don't like infinite combos (it sounds like you don't either) but adding one or two into your deck(s) can help end the games quicker. Tooth and Nail, which I mentioned above, can be used to "combo" out a table without it necessarily being an infinite combo. There are other ways to use combos that are not infinite if you choose to stay away from infinites, but they are a resource you can use to help end the current game and start the next one.
Gonna be honest, I'm the guy running the fogs... I am definitely part of the problem and intend to change...
Having more proactive answers seems nice, and I especially like that I was somewhat on track with the idea of combo, though not dedicating a deck to it seems wise. Just out of curiosity, using only green cards, what would Tooth and Nail fetch to end the game? I imagine the first card is Craterhoof Behemoth, but what's the second?
I am going to agree with avoiding building hard combo but the semi combo of the "big play" is what it seems like your meta needs. Typically what I feel a good commander game is a bunch of set up into a series of "big plays" which all get answered until one doesn't.
I am going to agree with the play red idea, either red or green utilising effects such as Craterhoof Behemoth that board stall breaking power. But to be honest any colour can do it. Black can rise of the dark realms for example.
If it weren't for the Fog deck I'd of suggested Zirilan of the claw all he can do is big plays, but playing against fog sucks.
Thanks for the great suggestions. I really think it's those "big plays" that our current decks are lacking to close out games and move on.
I'll have to do some research and find something. My friends are all very open to suggestions for their decks and take criticism very well, which is nice. We can always talk about how our games are going.
we ran into the same problem in our group and we've tried a few different things over the years
we tried 2v2, it was horrible. every deck turned into time warps but at least the games ended fast. newer people hated it (with good reason) and it did tremendous damage to our edh night as we couldn't retain any new blood. two strong players would be oppressive, and if you ended up partnered with someone not as good, or with a weaker deck, forget it you might as well not play.
This is really good to know, thank you for sharing. I was planning on suggesting 2v2, but will avoid it now.
what has naturally happened since we gave up on that was that yes, people started including more ways to WIN. we would discuss things, we still do, and ultimately the consensus is that... well the game has to end.
combo helps give the deck a goal and speed that end along. almost everyone packs something. maybe not many combos, but a few, just to close out games. ultimately we've seen interactivity increase. what happens is that guy is going to combo, so i need to run ways to stop him, i'm going to combo, so i need to run ways to protect it. the games become much more dynamic than 30 craw wurms lining up or sitting there fogging every turn. we tend to play 4-6 games a night now instead of 1-2.
new players *****, they moan and complain still, but some of them join the discussion and actually start pushing their decks. i've seen more silver bullets pop up lately than i ever have before, and the games where everyone is on the same page become intense but don't carry on all night.
what happens a lot when you start running things just to try and stop their durdliness is that they just run more ways to maintain it. if you want to shift things you have to push a different angle.
the problem with combo isn't that its cheap or lame or anything like that, its actually that it becomes oppressive in a group where no one changes their deck to embrace the fact that it exists. when you find ways to combo out and not get mired in durdletown, but your opponents don't bother to adapt.
This is all great advice and pretty much in line with what a lot of people and myself are thinking. We should all be packing some sort of inevitability that allows us to win. I'm really craving that dymanic game that we've been lacking over the last few weeks.
I trust that my friends will all adapt well to change; we always do. It's just been a particularly rough patch these days. Thanks for the great advice and insight from your personal experience!
It might not be deemed relevant to the discussion, but i just wanted to say this is the kind of response and back and forth that makes the format great. encourage this with your group, encourage this on forums, encourage this everywhere. talking about problems, or solutions, or advancing the meta will make it everything so much more healthy in the long run
I agree with red being a pretty good answer to this meta. Heartless hidetsugu will certainly speed the game up.
Can confirm. I played against this on Friday and the game ended on turn 7, with me blowing everyone up(including myself) with Plague Rats x=4. Probably my favorite game in months. Something like Niv-Mizzet, Parun might be good too, storm is fun.
It wasn't always this way. Games used to end on turn 5 or 6 when I was playing Rakdos, Lord of Riots versus Kaalia of the Vast or Animar, Soul of Elements. Now these decks get chewed up by board wipes, fogs and lock pieces and there is no one left to progress the game.
So, what's next?
We aren't the kind of playgroup to ban anything or tell people what to bring to the table. Everyone gets to play what they want.
We have one friend who's been winning a lot lately because he runs 2-card combos like Zealous Conscripts/Kiki-Jiki or Sanguine Bond/ Exquisite Blood. I personally don't like running them because I don't like how they play, but don't have a problem playing against them. This got me thinking: Is this the answer to a durdle-fest? Should I/we start running some combos to simply end games on the spot? It still requires skill and timing to do so and could help steer us into a new direction without having to revamp completely what we bring to the table.
Any thoughts?
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
The important part is the self-imposed "rules":
When an opponent casts a spell, they get to choose Kaervek's target, so long as:
-The spell doesn't screw you over (if it does, kaervek targets their stuff/them)
-The choice of Kaervek target doesn't screw you over (if it does, kaervek targets their stuff/them)
-The game isn't about to end
At least in my experience, this results in people throwing out spells with wild abandon to knock down each others' board states and savage their life totals, while mostly leaving kaervek alone. And the rest of the deck is almost entirely mana to get kaervek out as quickly and frequently as possible, along with equipment and enchantments that make his ability even more savage.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Is this a concern for your group? Are the games dragging on simply because they want them to last longer compared to the ones that ended on turn 5 or 6? If so, trying to find something in the middle is likely where you want to be. Maybe an aggressive Simic build? This gives you ways to end the game (Tooth and Nail; Craterhoof; etc.) as well as ways to try to stop the board from constantly being wrathed. Selesnya can be similar in that you get Avacyn, Teferi's Protection, Heroic Intervention, etc. to, again, stop wraths.
If fogs are a problem, red seems the way to go. Gruul, Boros, or maybe Izzet (though not as much) can provide aggressive strategies along with ways to get through fogs (red has a bunch of "damage can't be prevented" effects for example). Green gives you Heroic Intervention and White gives you Boros Charm and Teferi's Protection. These all ensure your board sticks around.
Green also gives you toolbox elements and Bane of Progress. I mention that because I assume at least some "lock pieces" are artifacts or enchantments and Bane can be useful to get rid of them (assuming you can find a way to land a 6 mana creature amid the lock pieces).
And, as you mentioned, combo is another answer. And it doesn't have to be infinite combos or a deck dedicated to a combo. I personally don't like infinite combos (it sounds like you don't either) but adding one or two into your deck(s) can help end the games quicker. Tooth and Nail, which I mentioned above, can be used to "combo" out a table without it necessarily being an infinite combo. There are other ways to use combos that are not infinite if you choose to stay away from infinites, but they are a resource you can use to help end the current game and start the next one.
I am going to agree with the play red idea, either red or green utilising effects such as Craterhoof Behemoth that board stall breaking power. But to be honest any colour can do it. Black can rise of the dark realms for example.
If it weren't for the Fog deck I'd of suggested Zirilan of the claw all he can do is big plays, but playing against fog sucks.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Or some other kind of limitation, like cards that start with the same letter.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Seconded. Even without the support from a typical build, being able to Thanos-Snap life totals ain't nothing to **** with.
Fog can be answered by Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir or City of Solitude.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
we tried 2v2, it was horrible. every deck turned into time warps but at least the games ended fast. newer people hated it (with good reason) and it did tremendous damage to our edh night as we couldn't retain any new blood. two strong players would be oppressive, and if you ended up partnered with someone not as good, or with a weaker deck, forget it you might as well not play.
what has naturally happened since we gave up on that was that yes, people started including more ways to WIN. we would discuss things, we still do, and ultimately the consensus is that... well the game has to end.
combo helps give the deck a goal and speed that end along. almost everyone packs something. maybe not many combos, but a few, just to close out games. ultimately we've seen interactivity increase. what happens is that guy is going to combo, so i need to run ways to stop him, i'm going to combo, so i need to run ways to protect it. the games become much more dynamic than 30 craw wurms lining up or sitting there fogging every turn. we tend to play 4-6 games a night now instead of 1-2.
new players *****, they moan and complain still, but some of them join the discussion and actually start pushing their decks. i've seen more silver bullets pop up lately than i ever have before, and the games where everyone is on the same page become intense but don't carry on all night.
what happens a lot when you start running things just to try and stop their durdliness is that they just run more ways to maintain it. if you want to shift things you have to push a different angle.
the problem with combo isn't that its cheap or lame or anything like that, its actually that it becomes oppressive in a group where no one changes their deck to embrace the fact that it exists. when you find ways to combo out and not get mired in durdletown, but your opponents don't bother to adapt.
Heartless Hidetsugu with Gisela, Blade of Goldnight on your side of the board.
Phenax, God of Deception with Lord of Extinction.
This is spot-on. The shift has been happening over the last 2 years or so.
This is a concern for us because we have limited time to play every week. we have a 4-6 hour window to get as many games in as possible, and lately we haven't been able to finish more than one game in an evening. Something more in the middle would be preferable.
Gonna be honest, I'm the guy running the fogs... I am definitely part of the problem and intend to change...
Having more proactive answers seems nice, and I especially like that I was somewhat on track with the idea of combo, though not dedicating a deck to it seems wise. Just out of curiosity, using only green cards, what would Tooth and Nail fetch to end the game? I imagine the first card is Craterhoof Behemoth, but what's the second?
Maybe my Fog deck will play Divine Intervention... or not.
Thanks for the great suggestions. I really think it's those "big plays" that our current decks are lacking to close out games and move on.
I'll have to do some research and find something. My friends are all very open to suggestions for their decks and take criticism very well, which is nice. We can always talk about how our games are going.
This is really good to know, thank you for sharing. I was planning on suggesting 2v2, but will avoid it now.
This is all great advice and pretty much in line with what a lot of people and myself are thinking. We should all be packing some sort of inevitability that allows us to win. I'm really craving that dymanic game that we've been lacking over the last few weeks.
I trust that my friends will all adapt well to change; we always do. It's just been a particularly rough patch these days. Thanks for the great advice and insight from your personal experience!
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
I usually think of red cards to go with T&N (when not trying for an "infinite" combo). Purphoros, God of the Forge and Avenger. Or Ogre Battledriver with Avenger. Since Red also gives you Urabrask the Hidden and other haste enablers, the Craterhoof/Avenger play could be more consistent.
Well, it does end the game
It might not be deemed relevant to the discussion, but i just wanted to say this is the kind of response and back and forth that makes the format great. encourage this with your group, encourage this on forums, encourage this everywhere. talking about problems, or solutions, or advancing the meta will make it everything so much more healthy in the long run
Can confirm. I played against this on Friday and the game ended on turn 7, with me blowing everyone up(including myself) with Plague Rats x=4. Probably my favorite game in months. Something like Niv-Mizzet, Parun might be good too, storm is fun.
Deal with it.
Alternatively, a mill and/or alternative wincon strategy may spice things up.