Are you thinking of another Firemind's Foresight combo? Turnabout, unless my eyes are worse than I thought, is a 4 CMC card, which means it can't be part of the combo(at least, not in the fashion you describe).
Are you thinking of another Firemind's Foresight combo? Turnabout, unless my eyes are worse than I thought, is a 4 CMC card, which means it can't be part of the combo(at least, not in the fashion you describe).
Whoops, I actually meant reiterate, not turnabout. Not even the right type of effect even if it could be tutored (the untap effect is provided by reset which, at 2-cmc, works just fine).
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I've never argued that it wouldn't be bad design. I definitely don't WANT the card to exist. I'm just interested in speculating about where the fair cost of the effect lies.
Well if i really really have to choose, i'd say either 15 to mimic emrakul or 17 to make it more costly than draco.
15 mana would probably require the card to be colored. Penta, monoblack, rakdos or orzhov are possible options imho.
17 for colorless too
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I've never argued that it wouldn't be bad design. I definitely don't WANT the card to exist. I'm just interested in speculating about where the fair cost of the effect lies.
Well if i really really have to choose, i'd say either 15 to mimic emrakul or 17 to make it more costly than draco.
Draco costs 16, but nobody ever pays 16.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
If I should theory craft a card that I feel could potentially be made, I would do something like this:
7BB Deathstorm
Kicker 6WUBRG
Destroy all creatures you don’t control
If the kicker cost was paid, all other players lose the game.
I feel a reduction of 9 mana is okish for cheating the casting cost and you still have to pay 11 mana (if you cheat the casting cost it is basically a two card combo and there are cheaper ways to win than this so fairish) also, 20 mana with quite a few colored is tough if you do not cheat on the cost.
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
As I've said before, I don't think making it 5c stays in the spirit of the exercise. At least within commander, it restricts it to being legally playable in only a small fraction of decks, which would drastically reduce the impact on the format. If you were sitting at a table with no 5c decks you wouldn't even need to worry about it.
Slightly off topic, but as much as I dislike the idea of coalition victory and don't think I'd ever play it, I'm not so sure the card deserves its ban. For one thing, it's disruptable with creature removal and land removal. I guess I can see it being an issue for casual tables, but personally I think I'd be ok with it. You'd just need to be aware when you sit down against a 5c deck that you might need to be prepared to either counter a spell, remove a creature, or strip a land once they get to 8 mana. It's honestly a lot easier to answer, and lot harder to set up, than expropriate is. Expropriate could blindside you from any blue deck, which is to say like 1/2 the format, and there's hardly any way to play around it unless you can turn off their mana or counter their spells yourself.
Slightly off topic, but as much as I dislike the idea of coalition victory and don't think I'd ever play it, I'm not so sure the card deserves its ban.
It's more because you shouldn't be rewarded that much for just playing your commander than an effective power reason
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Anyway, this is a designer's dilemma. You either design an expensive card with no conditions for "You Win!" but accept that it will get abused, or design a card that is harder to abuse but won't get played because its too much of a pain, or you design a card that acts as a giant beacon for every combo deck to come abuse it because of its ludicrous cost that no normal deck would run it.
Well, at a certain mana cost you've made a combo-only card, but it's a bad combo card because there are X-spells that would do the job just as effectively but with added flexibility.
Well, at a certain mana cost you've made a combo-only card, but it's a bad combo card because there are X-spells that would do the job just as effectively but with added flexibility.
Yep. Exsanguinate basically reads "You win the game" if you pump enough mana into it. Even spells without an X in their costs in a variety of combinations can basically read as "You win the game" even if its just by a means of forcing the rest of the table to forfeit. Najeela, the Blade-Blossom has "you win the game" written all over her since she can create infinite combat steps which does the same thing unless one or more opponents has a card that can stop her. Even a Cyclonic Rift can be back breaking enough to cause it if one or more players affected feel they can't come back from being hit when used at the right moment. You could also bore your opponents out of the match with Lethal Vapors + Grand Abolisher + Teferi's Protection if that is your cup of tea.
Slightly off topic, but as much as I dislike the idea of coalition victory and don't think I'd ever play it, I'm not so sure the card deserves its ban. For one thing, it's disruptable with creature removal and land removal. I guess I can see it being an issue for casual tables, but personally I think I'd be ok with it. You'd just need to be aware when you sit down against a 5c deck that you might need to be prepared to either counter a spell, remove a creature, or strip a land once they get to 8 mana. It's honestly a lot easier to answer, and lot harder to set up, than expropriate is. Expropriate could blindside you from any blue deck, which is to say like 1/2 the format, and there's hardly any way to play around it unless you can turn off their mana or counter their spells yourself.
I agree with your assessment of coalition victory; I think it's banning is more to do with it having a higher probability of causing bad-feels at very casual tables. expropriate seems to be the closest to a 'i win' without actually saying 'i win' on it (doesn't even have a single 'n' on it). I'm not sure what the appropriate mana cost for a literally "i win" sorcery should be, but it definitely needs to have a cast condition, and some other easily disruptable condition. Maybe something like:
Rhystic winB
sorcery
Put an emblem with "xxB: Unless another player pays 1 or 3 life, win the game. X is your life total. At the end of turn, you lose the game"
Exile Rhystic Win
That'd be pretty hard to use, easy to disrupt, and pretty balls-to-the-wall-suicide-mission sort of thing. and you'd really need to drain all your mana into it to make the win do-able.
My mind personally went to Lich, Lich's Mastery, Platinum Angel, and Phyrexian Unlife when reading Rhystic Win. If X is the life total and I must pay double that, then the simplest way around it is to purposefully get my life total to 0 or less and still be in the game while in that state. As now it only costs a single black mana per activation for winning unless opponents wish to pay life or mana to prevent it.
I agree with your assessment of coalition victory; I think it's banning is more to do with it having a higher probability of causing bad-feels at very casual tables. expropriate seems to be the closest to a 'i win' without actually saying 'i win' on it (doesn't even have a single 'n' on it). I'm not sure what the appropriate mana cost for a literally "i win" sorcery should be, but it definitely needs to have a cast condition, and some other easily disruptable condition. Maybe something like:
Rhystic winB
sorcery
Put an emblem with "xxB: Unless another player pays 1 or 3 life, win the game. X is your life total. At the end of turn, you lose the game"
Exile Rhystic Win
That'd be pretty hard to use, easy to disrupt, and pretty balls-to-the-wall-suicide-mission sort of thing. and you'd really need to drain all your mana into it to make the win do-able.
agreed about CV. fine for 75%+ tables, feels-bad for casual ones.
And that's all I want to say about it, because that thread got pretty unpleasant.
I think enter the infinite is maybe the most non "i-win" card that wins. That or doomsday. They both give you the massive multitutor, with the ticking clock that says you need to have a way to win or you shouldn't be playing it.
I'm seriously confused about this card you've invented though. Unless you're at 0 you have no chance, even 1 life it's basically impossible since you're paying 3 mana for every 3 life/1 mana you're draining, from 3 opponents. Even at 0, it's roughly the same power as exsanguinate, right? You pay 1 for each 3 life your opponents lose, except you have to pay all black mana. And they can counter activations with mana if they have it. So it's like a worse exsanguinate that doesn't gain life. That only works when you're at 0.
I guess it might work if it was like, pays 3 instead of 1, pays 8 life instead of 3, and the activation cost was XB instead of XXB. Even then, you've basically gotta be at 1-2 life to make it viable unless you're generating tons of mana - in which case exsanguinate (or better yet, torment) seems like it'd be better.
Anyway, this is all fun but pretty silly. I was mostly thinking about the question in the abstract - obviously if you wanted to make a satisfying and interesting win-the-game card you'd want to do something complicated, but that's a different question.
I agree with your assessment of coalition victory; I think it's banning is more to do with it having a higher probability of causing bad-feels at very casual tables. expropriate seems to be the closest to a 'i win' without actually saying 'i win' on it (doesn't even have a single 'n' on it). I'm not sure what the appropriate mana cost for a literally "i win" sorcery should be, but it definitely needs to have a cast condition, and some other easily disruptable condition. Maybe something like:
Rhystic winB
sorcery
Put an emblem with "xxB: Unless another player pays 1 or 3 life, win the game. X is your life total. At the end of turn, you lose the game"
Exile Rhystic Win
That'd be pretty hard to use, easy to disrupt, and pretty balls-to-the-wall-suicide-mission sort of thing. and you'd really need to drain all your mana into it to make the win do-able.
agreed about CV. fine for 75%+ tables, feels-bad for casual ones.
And that's all I want to say about it, because that thread got pretty unpleasant.
I think enter the infinite is maybe the most non "i-win" card that wins. That or doomsday. They both give you the massive multitutor, with the ticking clock that says you need to have a way to win or you shouldn't be playing it.
I'm seriously confused about this card you've invented though. Unless you're at 0 you have no chance, even 1 life it's basically impossible since you're paying 3 mana for every 3 life/1 mana you're draining, from 3 opponents. Even at 0, it's roughly the same power as exsanguinate, right? You pay 1 for each 3 life your opponents lose, except you have to pay all black mana. And they can counter activations with mana if they have it. So it's like a worse exsanguinate that doesn't gain life. That only works when you're at 0.
I guess it might work if it was like, pays 3 instead of 1, pays 8 life instead of 3, and the activation cost was XB instead of XXB. Even then, you've basically gotta be at 1-2 life to make it viable unless you're generating tons of mana - in which case exsanguinate (or better yet, torment) seems like it'd be better.
Anyway, this is all fun but pretty silly. I was mostly thinking about the question in the abstract - obviously if you wanted to make a satisfying and interesting win-the-game card you'd want to do something complicated, but that's a different question.
haha the thought was that it should be some pretty easy-to-disrupt, hard to pull off win. So at least when you do manage to cast it and pull it off, it'd be somewhat memorable. If it was too good, it'd make the whole game feel pointless, and the others on the table hate you for wasting their time.
There's something to be said about this though, even though you thought of it as an interesting experiment (and not to take that away or anything). The more i pondered, the more i came to realise that alternate win-cons seem to be more ok in most other formats, and not so in EDH. I'm not sure why that would be the case. My conjecture would be that players of EDH have to feel like they're still in the game, and facing a type of interaction that they can't interact with gives feel-bads, that somehow aren't kosher with EDH. And i would guess that most alternate win-con cards in magic just come from a angle of interaction that most players don't build decks to deal with. Or something. Not really sure where it is.
also, agreed on doomsday. much less so for enter the infinite. i've had people cast enter the infinite, and then basically re-read every single card of their deck for some reason, not knowing how to continue. I'm not sure most players even have a good idea what their plan is aside from "value!" or "moah kards!". but doomsday seems to be better pre-planned and with a very specific "i kill yous" intent. Which is why you should always save a predict for them.
Anyways, this has been a fun dive into the thought. I'm not sure there is a mana cost, but i strongly suspect that for EDH the answer is infinity.
Anyways, this has been a fun dive into the thought. I'm not sure there is a mana cost, but i strongly suspect that for EDH the answer is infinity.
I mean...you can disagree, but I'd say the absolute limit on a reasonable cost is like ~40. Otherwise exsanguinate/comet storm are almost always just more flexible ways to do the same thing. Let alone torment of hailfire.
I do think people dislike those cards too, though. I generally don't include them in my decks, personally. I prefer the hard-fought victories. But basically no one is calling for exsanguinate to get banned afaik, so it follows that it must be somewhere within the realm of "fair". From which it follows that a card that does kind of the same thing, but with much less flexibility, must cost less than a game-winning exsanguinate.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
Corrected in my original post.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
On phasing:
Well if i really really have to choose, i'd say either 15 to mimic emrakul or 17 to make it more costly than draco.
15 mana would probably require the card to be colored. Penta, monoblack, rakdos or orzhov are possible options imho.
17 for colorless too
Draco costs 16, but nobody ever pays 16.
On phasing:
7BB Deathstorm
Kicker 6WUBRG
Destroy all creatures you don’t control
If the kicker cost was paid, all other players lose the game.
I feel a reduction of 9 mana is okish for cheating the casting cost and you still have to pay 11 mana (if you cheat the casting cost it is basically a two card combo and there are cheaper ways to win than this so fairish) also, 20 mana with quite a few colored is tough if you do not cheat on the cost.
Slightly off topic, but as much as I dislike the idea of coalition victory and don't think I'd ever play it, I'm not so sure the card deserves its ban. For one thing, it's disruptable with creature removal and land removal. I guess I can see it being an issue for casual tables, but personally I think I'd be ok with it. You'd just need to be aware when you sit down against a 5c deck that you might need to be prepared to either counter a spell, remove a creature, or strip a land once they get to 8 mana. It's honestly a lot easier to answer, and lot harder to set up, than expropriate is. Expropriate could blindside you from any blue deck, which is to say like 1/2 the format, and there's hardly any way to play around it unless you can turn off their mana or counter their spells yourself.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
It's just a symbolic thing. The most expensive magic card ever printed!
It's more because you shouldn't be rewarded that much for just playing your commander than an effective power reason
Anyway, this is a designer's dilemma. You either design an expensive card with no conditions for "You Win!" but accept that it will get abused, or design a card that is harder to abuse but won't get played because its too much of a pain, or you design a card that acts as a giant beacon for every combo deck to come abuse it because of its ludicrous cost that no normal deck would run it.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I agree with your assessment of coalition victory; I think it's banning is more to do with it having a higher probability of causing bad-feels at very casual tables.
expropriate seems to be the closest to a 'i win' without actually saying 'i win' on it (doesn't even have a single 'n' on it). I'm not sure what the appropriate mana cost for a literally "i win" sorcery should be, but it definitely needs to have a cast condition, and some other easily disruptable condition. Maybe something like:
Rhystic win B
sorcery
Put an emblem with "xxB: Unless another player pays 1 or 3 life, win the game. X is your life total. At the end of turn, you lose the game"
Exile Rhystic Win
That'd be pretty hard to use, easy to disrupt, and pretty balls-to-the-wall-suicide-mission sort of thing. and you'd really need to drain all your mana into it to make the win do-able.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
And that's all I want to say about it, because that thread got pretty unpleasant.
I think enter the infinite is maybe the most non "i-win" card that wins. That or doomsday. They both give you the massive multitutor, with the ticking clock that says you need to have a way to win or you shouldn't be playing it.
I'm seriously confused about this card you've invented though. Unless you're at 0 you have no chance, even 1 life it's basically impossible since you're paying 3 mana for every 3 life/1 mana you're draining, from 3 opponents. Even at 0, it's roughly the same power as exsanguinate, right? You pay 1 for each 3 life your opponents lose, except you have to pay all black mana. And they can counter activations with mana if they have it. So it's like a worse exsanguinate that doesn't gain life. That only works when you're at 0.
I guess it might work if it was like, pays 3 instead of 1, pays 8 life instead of 3, and the activation cost was XB instead of XXB. Even then, you've basically gotta be at 1-2 life to make it viable unless you're generating tons of mana - in which case exsanguinate (or better yet, torment) seems like it'd be better.
Anyway, this is all fun but pretty silly. I was mostly thinking about the question in the abstract - obviously if you wanted to make a satisfying and interesting win-the-game card you'd want to do something complicated, but that's a different question.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
haha the thought was that it should be some pretty easy-to-disrupt, hard to pull off win. So at least when you do manage to cast it and pull it off, it'd be somewhat memorable. If it was too good, it'd make the whole game feel pointless, and the others on the table hate you for wasting their time.
There's something to be said about this though, even though you thought of it as an interesting experiment (and not to take that away or anything). The more i pondered, the more i came to realise that alternate win-cons seem to be more ok in most other formats, and not so in EDH. I'm not sure why that would be the case. My conjecture would be that players of EDH have to feel like they're still in the game, and facing a type of interaction that they can't interact with gives feel-bads, that somehow aren't kosher with EDH. And i would guess that most alternate win-con cards in magic just come from a angle of interaction that most players don't build decks to deal with. Or something. Not really sure where it is.
also, agreed on doomsday. much less so for enter the infinite. i've had people cast enter the infinite, and then basically re-read every single card of their deck for some reason, not knowing how to continue. I'm not sure most players even have a good idea what their plan is aside from "value!" or "moah kards!". but doomsday seems to be better pre-planned and with a very specific "i kill yous" intent. Which is why you should always save a predict for them.
Anyways, this has been a fun dive into the thought. I'm not sure there is a mana cost, but i strongly suspect that for EDH the answer is infinity.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
I do think people dislike those cards too, though. I generally don't include them in my decks, personally. I prefer the hard-fought victories. But basically no one is calling for exsanguinate to get banned afaik, so it follows that it must be somewhere within the realm of "fair". From which it follows that a card that does kind of the same thing, but with much less flexibility, must cost less than a game-winning exsanguinate.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6