"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Damn, you beat me to it!
Fundamental question: How many Petioners are needed for them to be able to persist efficiently? Same numbers as the apostle deck? Also, if we include cards like Faces of the Past , Intruder Alarm and Paradox Engine we should roughly determine how many iterations of tap/untap will be needed to mill the table
Well, I haven't done an apostle deck but I have done a relentless rats deck,which runs 20 rats, which reminds me we'd want patriarch's biddingas a mass recursion
My first inclination for this deck is for it to have green in its identity. I'm thinking of stuff like Seedborn Muse and Vitalize but...I can't think of any others off the top of my head so I may be going down the wrong rabbit hole there. I do, however, think Dramatic Reversal could do well here.
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
You'll probably want black for Bloodchief Ascension. Once it's active, tapping four Advisors drains 48. This also would let you use Orzhov cards; after all, what's the greatest threat to a democracy other than the marriage of politics with money?
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Well, I haven't done an apostle deck but I have done a relentless rats deck,which runs 20 rats, which reminds me we'd want patriarch's biddingas a mass recursion
You guys have suggested many great cards, but you are missing the most obvious one: Quest for Renewal. Easy to activate, then its a quick way to mill everyone (obviously best in multiplayer games).
There is also awakening but this one is a bit more risky to use.
I think that, given the fact that the bureaucratic win condition is a creature, we are set on blue and black( for reanimation and recovering from wraths) at least?
I like Phenax a bit more given that our standard creature has 3 toughness his ability is rather scary and if he becomes a creature he can mill for 7 which is also great.
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The thing is that we will be tapping petitioners to their ability not Phenax's, so there might be unecessary redundancy. I think that esper are the best colors, esp. flavorwise
Seems to me like the best support cards are in black and green (and blue, but you're obviously already there). Green gets you awakening effects and black gets you tutors, mass recursion, things that target opponents graveyards, and bloodchief ascension. Obviously if he was legal Leovold would be the elf for the job, being an advisor and combing with wheels and other forced card draw that these sort of decks like. Perhaps Thrasios or the other UG partner and Ravos? Ravos can keep grabbing them from your yard while thrasios is always a great CA engine and mana sink.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
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Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
There's a very obvious commander for this deck in Muldrotha, the Gravetide that would allow you to also use the mill on yourself and then cast whatever gets dropped in the bin. With cards like Bloodbond March and Faces of the Past you can quite easily end up casting 12+ Petitioners in one go, even right after a boardwipe.
There's a very obvious commander for this deck in Muldrotha, the Gravetide that would allow you to also use the mill on yourself and then cast whatever gets dropped in the bin. With cards like Bloodbond March and Faces of the Past you can quite easily end up casting 12+ Petitioners in one go, even right after a boardwipe.
Yeah, I think we're firmly in Sultai at this point. Bloodbond March seems fantastic. I think we've damn near got a deck, folks! I think I"m gonna try Muldrotha myself.
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
There's a very obvious commander for this deck in Muldrotha, the Gravetide that would allow you to also use the mill on yourself and then cast whatever gets dropped in the bin. With cards like Bloodbond March and Faces of the Past you can quite easily end up casting 12+ Petitioners in one go, even right after a boardwipe.
That being said, Muldrotha, the Gravetide might actually be a better Commander for this build than Sidisi, Brood Tyrant. While we're on the subject we might as well run Possessed Portal since Muldrotha helps us get back any permanent we discard while we can replace our draws with tutor effects and reveal effects for card advantage. Dredge seems like it could work well especially If we're running Hermit Druid to mill ourselves with Living Death as a pseudo-board wipe for getting back our Persistent Petitioners in our graveyard.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
This is turning into a very interesting thread because of the different reactions and choices,because I personally was thinking flavor/theme over function. But keep the suggestions coming!
Had a bit of trouble with the mana base though it doesn't look too bad.
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Had a bit of trouble with the mana base though it doesn't look too bad.
Ohh this is turning into a very interesting deck and I am sold for Sultai as well. I hope we can keep this one budget conscious
What about Fatestitcher and Intruder Alarm ? Didn't make the final cut?
Also, did anyone consider Mana Severance to think the deck prior to mass milling?
Had a bit of trouble with the mana base though it doesn't look too bad.
You most likely do not want an even distribution of Basic Lands, you want Islands over everything at least that is what was true when I was playing Shadowborn Apostles in 3 and 4 color decks you need to be hitting the color of the most common thing in the deck by far. Also 27 basics makes Hermit Druid feel like a strange choice
I think me personally would go Bant over Sultai you also still can keep the reanimation in Remembrance and Angel of Glory's Rise
I'm not sure if Azor's Elocutors would be on theme or not.
If we're going with a Sultai approach with Persistent Petitioners then Bloodbond March probably wouldn't be too bad especially since it has synergy with Sidisi, Brood Tyrant for spamming Zombie tokens anytime we accidentally mill Persistent Petitioners. Sunscape Familiar with Phyrexian Altar not only helps pay into our Advisors for milling our opponents but also helps fuel Faces of the Past for untap shenanigans as well.
Other cards to look into are Kiora's Follower and Gilder Bairn due to their synergy with Illusionist's Bracers, maybe add in Springleaf Drum as another way to provide mana for casting Persistent Petitioners with Paradox Engine perhaps? Murkfiend Liege and Seedborn Muse seem pretty solid for milling our opponents during their own turns. Not sure how I feel about an Esper route with Oloro, Ageless Ascetic with Persistent Petitioners though.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Fundamental question: How many Petioners are needed for them to be able to persist efficiently? Same numbers as the apostle deck? Also, if we include cards like Faces of the Past , Intruder Alarm and Paradox Engine we should roughly determine how many iterations of tap/untap will be needed to mill the table
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV would be on tribe and mace the Relentless 'Crats cheaper
Ambassador Laquatus would support the milling theme.
Kami of the Crescent Moon might actually be interesting. It is card draw and also thins the decks of our opponents.
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner to protect our board.
Also Teferi, Temporal Archmage or Aminatou, the Fateshifter could also be really solid commander for this.
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You could also go into Jeskai for Jeskai Ascendancy and make the advisors buff.
On phasing:
i did 36 rats when i did that deck
Intruder alarm + Undead Alchemist can be very useful. just a quick practice run and with 6 card (Intruder alarm, Undead alchemist and four Persistent petitioners) i was milling people very quickly (Getting an average of 4 creatures off of the first guy, i had enough activation to mill everyone after he was milled out)
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A nice commander would also be Wrexial, the Risen Deep who likes big graveyards
Also playable would be the Duskmantle Guildmage. His first ability can be activated more than once and cause so a massive life loss.
Azor's Elocutors would totally be on point for either theme or sub-theme of Advisor, also Grindstone might be useful
There is also awakening but this one is a bit more risky to use.
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
I like Phenax a bit more given that our standard creature has 3 toughness his ability is rather scary and if he becomes a creature he can mill for 7 which is also great.
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Yeah, I think we're firmly in Sultai at this point. Bloodbond March seems fantastic. I think we've damn near got a deck, folks! I think I"m gonna try Muldrotha myself.
My 720 Peasant Cube
Since we're milling with Persistent Petitioners we also need to run exile abilities such as Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, Sentinel Totem, and Bojuka Bog. If we're needing to go after combo pieces that we don't mill and exile with Persistent Petitioners then Jester's Cap, Helm of Obedience, and Thought Dissector seem to fit the bill fine. Intruder Alarm could set up for some funny shenanigans with Mesmeric Orb even though it affects us as well not to mention that Cauldron of Souls puts the "Persist" in Persistent Petitioners.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
This is turning into a very interesting thread because of the different reactions and choices,because I personally was thinking flavor/theme over function. But keep the suggestions coming!
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Creatures (40)
28 Persistent Petitioners
1 Nightscape Familiar
1 Hermit Druid
1 Kami of the Crescent Moon
1 Duskmantle Guildmage
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Murkfiend Liege
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Caustic Caterpillar
1 Tradewind Rider
1 Shriekmaw
1 Protean Hulk
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Instants (5)
1 Urborg Justice
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Sultai Charm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Living Death
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Windfall
1 Secret Salvage
1 Assassin's Trophy
Artifacts (10)
1 Sentinel Totem
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sol Ring
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Altar of the Brood
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Mind's Eye
1 Thrumming Stone
Enchantments (5)
1 Bloodbond March
1 Symbiotic Deployment
1 Faces of the Past
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Quest for Renewal
9 Swamp
9 Forest
9 Island
1 Command Tower
1 Opulent Palace
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Homeward Path
1 Reliquary Tower
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Ohh this is turning into a very interesting deck and I am sold for Sultai as well. I hope we can keep this one budget conscious
What about Fatestitcher and Intruder Alarm ? Didn't make the final cut?
Also, did anyone consider Mana Severance to think the deck prior to mass milling?
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
You most likely do not want an even distribution of Basic Lands, you want Islands over everything at least that is what was true when I was playing Shadowborn Apostles in 3 and 4 color decks you need to be hitting the color of the most common thing in the deck by far. Also 27 basics makes Hermit Druid feel like a strange choice
I think me personally would go Bant over Sultai you also still can keep the reanimation in Remembrance and Angel of Glory's Rise