Name of the thread says it all. Until recently I've been running a Sigarda, Host of Herons voltron deck but I've gotten bored with it and want to turn the deck into an Angel tribal deck. I want to mainly run angels with some control support since the tribe isnt the fastest in the world. I think I've managed to narrow my list of potential commanders down to 4:Shalai, Voice of Plenty, Archangel Avacyn, Jenara, Asura of War, or Selenia, Dark Angel.
My playgroup is my local LGS, so official commanders only (otherwise I'd run maelstrom archangel ), and Kaalia gets to hated.
Personally, of the ones you mentioned in your post, I'd stick with Sigarda, Host of Herons and just switch it from Voltron to rampy tribal. It really sucks paying a bunch of mana for an angel, only to have someone make you sac it. You say it isn't the fastest tribe, but a bit of green ramp will help that far more than red or black. You could ramp hard and smash face with angels.
Hey thanks for responding. I had considered Sigarda but found the issue being her protection from sacrifice ability almost never comes up (in all of 3 years running the deck its been a factor in a game exactly once.) What I do find to be a threat are spot removal/boardwipes alongside super fast aggressive strategies (not alot of all-in combo decks surprisingly), a few I can think of right off the bat being Purphoros goblins, Tuvasa the Sunlit, The Scorpion God, just to name a few. Usually by the time I'm dropping Sigarda(ususally turn 6-7 because I'm delaying my death) they've either got an answer or have alreay pummeled me to the point where she's useless and I die anyways. wasnt sure if i need to just answer that with my own removal or not, and I've been told most the "good" angels are in red/white, so I wasnt sure how I should run it.
Without plugging directly for one of my lists, myself and ISBpathfinder have both had good success with mono white Bruna, the Fading Light. Neither one of our lists is strict angel tribal, although both run several. She's a really decent reanimation option with a fun second option in the meld ability.
Mono white is scary in terms of ramp and draw options, but building with this in mind mitigates that, and there's plenty of options for grinding out some good wins.
Hey thanks for responding. I had considered Sigarda but found the issue being her protection from sacrifice ability almost never comes up (in all of 3 years running the deck its been a factor in a game exactly once.) What I do find to be a threat are spot removal/boardwipes alongside super fast aggressive strategies (not alot of all-in combo decks surprisingly), a few I can think of right off the bat being Purphoros goblins, Tuvasa the Sunlit, The Scorpion God, just to name a few. Usually by the time I'm dropping Sigarda(ususally turn 6-7 because I'm delaying my death) they've either got an answer or have alreay pummeled me to the point where she's useless and I die anyways. wasnt sure if i need to just answer that with my own removal or not, and I've been told most the "good" angels are in red/white, so I wasnt sure how I should run it.
Yeah, if the ability isn't relevant in your meta, she may not be the best for you. We have a fair amount of forced sacrifice in my meta.
Yes, you should always pack removal of your own and use it to best help your wincon. Up against Purphoros? Use enchantment exile or Torpor Orb/Hushwing Gryff effects. Tuvasa? More enchantment destruction and exile. Token swarms? Use sweepers. You can tailor some removal to your meta, but you can also run flexible cards. Austere Command, Cleansing Nova, and Merciless Eviction are flexible and offer card advantage. Use them to hurt your opponents the most and then build up your board as they try to recover.
Red/White gives you some aggressive angels like Aurelia, the Warleader and the fun damage shenanigans of Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, but it really suffers from poor ramp and poor card draw when compared to other color combos.
I guess the question is "How do you want a typical game to play out?" Are you looking to swarm the board? Gain life? Prevent damage?
@3Drinks Like I said in my original post, Kaalia just gets auto-targeted because of her reputation for degeneracy, and I'm not all that good at playing archenemy.
@FunkyDragon I think the main strategy I had settled on was using more controlling angels like Angelic Arbiter, Archangel of Tithes, maybe "cough" Linvala, Keeper of Silence"cough" alongside some enchantments like Ghostly Prison, etc...
edit: Linvala wasn't an option b/c I know what happens when people see her in the command zone and I do want to stick to 2-3 colors.
@FunkyDragon I think the main strategy I had settled on was using more controlling angels like Angelic Arbiter, Archangel of Tithes, maybe "cough" Linvala, Keeper of Silence"cough" alongside some enchantments like Ghostly Prison, etc...
@3Drinks Like I said in my original post, Kaalia just gets auto-targeted because of her reputation for degeneracy, and I'm not all that good at playing archenemy.
So use this to your advantage. Build knowing she will get wiped out and hit 'em with the left hook they neversawcoming.
I definitely would go with Shalai. Coming down at 4 mana is a big pro, and she protects your overcosted creatures really well. You will have a lot of ramp, and she gives you a good mana sink.
Without plugging directly for one of my lists, myself and ISBpathfinder have both had good success with mono white Bruna, the Fading Light. Neither one of our lists is strict angel tribal, although both run several. She's a really decent reanimation option with a fun second option in the meld ability.
Mono white is scary in terms of ramp and draw options, but building with this in mind mitigates that, and there's plenty of options for grinding out some good wins.
I agree
Its a very good robust control deck. Bruna makes you very sticky and good against wraths.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
My recommendation would be Mayael, The Anima. Naya colors, so the good Boros angels plus ramp and draw (greater good would rock this deck). Allows you to cheat some out with Mayael also, which is nice. I’d also run Elvish Piper to do that more.
My recommendation would also be Bruna, the fading light. Having a commander that has synergy with your deck is a lot more fun than simply having a generic beatstick that happens to be the same tribe.
Mono white is able to control and ramp reasonably well, so it should still fit your purpose.
On that note, I'm surprised that Lyra Dawnbringer hasn't been brought up.
My recommendation would also be Bruna, the fading light. Having a commander that has synergy with your deck is a lot more fun than simply having a generic beatstick that happens to be the same tribe.
Mono white is able to control and ramp reasonably well, so it should still fit your purpose.
On that note, I'm surprised that Lyra Dawnbringer hasn't been brought up.
The biggest problem with Lyra Dawnbringer is that she is kind of split between wanting to be voltron herself, a lifegain build, and an angel deck. Giving big expensive angels an anthem isn't nearly as efficient as giving small cheap creatures or tokens an anthem. I think she is cool but ultimately her anthem effect for other angels just isn't that impressive in commander. She is actually probably better with some angel token makers than she is actual angels with maybe the exception of the angel that makes angel tokens.
She has been really good in my Bruna, the fading light deck though. Turning Bruna into a 6/8 lifelinker with vigilance is crazy handy.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I've tried Angel tribal before with Samut, Voice of Dissent. We need green to ramp because the best angels are 4 mana minimum which is kinda a lot, we need red because several of the best angels in the game are also red, and of course white. Samut giving them haste is effective as is, but for theme and path of ancestry reasons I always wanted a legendary Naya angel.
@ISBPathfinder With running mono-white how do you deal with ramp outside of artifacts (I've shied away from artifact ramp lately because of all the artifact hate that people incorporated after C2018).
@ISBPathfinder With running mono-white how do you deal with ramp outside of artifacts (I've shied away from artifact ramp lately because of all the artifact hate that people incorporated after C2018).
So, I think there are a few things to approach the concept with.
2) I play the deck very defensively asking myself how do I stay relivant and stay in this game. I play a lot of defensive tactics including wraths, Moat effects, and several vigilant / lifelink angels. For me, its not necessarily about being fast into the game so much as being robust and hard to remove from said game. Bruna isn't something that I ramp into so much as my recovery plan to stay in the game through removal / wraths.
Because I am not ramping into my commander I put more emphasis on just staying power. Card draw and making my land drops turn after turn is more relevant to me than ramping. Lots of my ramp package nets me lands which plays well into my plan to run 7ish wraths plan which helps reset the game which plays well to Bruna's strengths.
My list is in my signature or here if you want to see anything more of what I run.
A player in our group recently made a Boros Archangel Avacyn deck that has been doing quite well. It focuses on angels, but plays a few key non-angel creatures that help her flip whenever she needs to.
I have to say, it's very hard to wipe the board with Avacyn in the command zone. Flash and giving her things indestructible is super powerful. The flip side is just gravy and gives you access to Red.
You could also consider building a Boros deck with many of the Boros legendary angels in the deck and switch them in and out of the command zone depending on how you feel.
Lyra, New Bruna and Kaalia seem to be the only generals with angel tribal synergy. Id personally go with Kaalia. Idk why people think it's so degenerate. Its good, don't get me wrong but there are far more degerate decks out there imo. As 3drinks said, there are ways to keep her around. Otherwise, just keep playing Sigarda or another strong angel without tribal mechanics like OG Gisela.
Lyra, New Bruna and Kaalia seem to be the only generals with angel tribal synergy. Id personally go with Kaalia. Idk why people think it's so degenerate. Its good, don't get me wrong but there are far more degerate decks out there imo. As 3drinks said, there are ways to keep her around. Otherwise, just keep playing Sigarda or another strong angel without tribal mechanics like OG Gisela.
My issues with Kaalia are numberous:
The commander is designed in such a way that she mostly becomes worthless after the second time you cast her. This means that she falls off hard if the game goes long in that she stops contributing fairly quickly.
Many of the successful builds seem to be based on land disruption. I am not saying you can't play a fair game of magic and win with her but the options seem to be that you goldfish your opponents, disrupt their lands, or lose terribly.
Its hard to build her with a single tribe focus. Each tribe tends to have its strong cards that they add but when you break down a Kaalia deck you are probably talking about 15-30ish creatures that probably fall into those three tribes. When you get past the fifth best card of each creature type its hard to start adding the less good cards of that tribe instead of the other tribes.
Kaalia is a goldfish aggro deck that builds itself. That is my issue with the commander. Its not good if it gets disrupted and slowed down and if you can come back from that its probably because you tend to blow up the lands. These are not things I enjoy about this game. I honestly don't even think that its that good because everyone at the table if they are holding spot removal should be (and usually is) thinking about just throwing it in your face on your first cast. I don't have a problem with if someone wants to play the commander, but its not a deck with very good long game potential if you ask me.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
My playgroup is my local LGS, so official commanders only (otherwise I'd run maelstrom archangel ), and Kaalia gets to hated.
Any advice welcome
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Mono white is scary in terms of ramp and draw options, but building with this in mind mitigates that, and there's plenty of options for grinding out some good wins.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Yes, you should always pack removal of your own and use it to best help your wincon. Up against Purphoros? Use enchantment exile or Torpor Orb/Hushwing Gryff effects. Tuvasa? More enchantment destruction and exile. Token swarms? Use sweepers. You can tailor some removal to your meta, but you can also run flexible cards. Austere Command, Cleansing Nova, and Merciless Eviction are flexible and offer card advantage. Use them to hurt your opponents the most and then build up your board as they try to recover.
Red/White gives you some aggressive angels like Aurelia, the Warleader and the fun damage shenanigans of Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, but it really suffers from poor ramp and poor card draw when compared to other color combos.
I guess the question is "How do you want a typical game to play out?" Are you looking to swarm the board? Gain life? Prevent damage?
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edit: Linvala wasn't an option b/c I know what happens when people see her in the command zone and I do want to stick to 2-3 colors.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
So use this to your advantage. Build knowing she will get wiped out and hit 'em with the left hook they never saw coming.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
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Aurelia, the warleader
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I agree
Its a very good robust control deck. Bruna makes you very sticky and good against wraths.
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[Modern] Allies
Mono white is able to control and ramp reasonably well, so it should still fit your purpose.
On that note, I'm surprised that Lyra Dawnbringer hasn't been brought up.
Esper - Sydri - Alternate take on the Artifacts meta
Orzhov - Regna and Krav - Tokens and Lifegain and +1/+1 counters
Mono Green - Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar - Land Matters
WURG Kynaios and Tiro Grouphug/Fistbump
The biggest problem with Lyra Dawnbringer is that she is kind of split between wanting to be voltron herself, a lifegain build, and an angel deck. Giving big expensive angels an anthem isn't nearly as efficient as giving small cheap creatures or tokens an anthem. I think she is cool but ultimately her anthem effect for other angels just isn't that impressive in commander. She is actually probably better with some angel token makers than she is actual angels with maybe the exception of the angel that makes angel tokens.
She has been really good in my Bruna, the fading light deck though. Turning Bruna into a 6/8 lifelinker with vigilance is crazy handy.
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[Modern] Allies
So, I think there are a few things to approach the concept with.
1) My "ramp" for the deck is as follows:
Because I am not ramping into my commander I put more emphasis on just staying power. Card draw and making my land drops turn after turn is more relevant to me than ramping. Lots of my ramp package nets me lands which plays well into my plan to run 7ish wraths plan which helps reset the game which plays well to Bruna's strengths.
My list is in my signature or here if you want to see anything more of what I run.
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[Modern] Allies
I have to say, it's very hard to wipe the board with Avacyn in the command zone. Flash and giving her things indestructible is super powerful. The flip side is just gravy and gives you access to Red.
You could also consider building a Boros deck with many of the Boros legendary angels in the deck and switch them in and out of the command zone depending on how you feel.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
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BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
My issues with Kaalia are numberous:
Kaalia is a goldfish aggro deck that builds itself. That is my issue with the commander. Its not good if it gets disrupted and slowed down and if you can come back from that its probably because you tend to blow up the lands. These are not things I enjoy about this game. I honestly don't even think that its that good because everyone at the table if they are holding spot removal should be (and usually is) thinking about just throwing it in your face on your first cast. I don't have a problem with if someone wants to play the commander, but its not a deck with very good long game potential if you ask me.
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[Modern] Allies
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)