I think you should have some good targets for TSG in your deck, but 3/4 of your wins will be from controlling the game and reanimating your opponents' cards to win.
From my experience of playing against a pretty controlly TSG deck, while you definitely want some classic control instants and sorceries, you can get a good amount of value from switching some of you interactive effects over to creatures with ETBs or sacrifice effects so you can get extra value from your general. The most obvious starting point is the black ones that destroy creatures - Bone Shredder, Shriekmaw (both can easily get themselves into the yard), Ravenous Chupacabra etc. Kagemaro, First to Suffer can give you a board wipe. From the blue side of things, you have some counterspells like Mausoleum Wanderer (really benefits from being a 4/4), plus Venser, Shaper Savant.
If you want a wincon, the one I'll always recommend for this general is Mirror-Mad Phantasm. EoT Scarab God the MMP, activate it, mill your entire deck. On upkeep, Scarab God Laboratory Maniac, win on draw step.
Thanks for all the suggestions - I'll have to sit down and do some more work on the list when I get some time.
Here's the list as it sits now and it certainly needs some work.
Tree of Perdition should definitely not be in the deck.
Why not? The tree could be sac-reanimated, and if you eternalize the tree you could turn target player's life into 4 instead of 13.
It's not a control card, and it is a huge threat. Try casting this and see what happens before you can activate it the next turn. You will be targeted by everything and it will probably just die.
Target player loses 27 life is not a control card, it is a burn card. If you play this, you better be applying a lot of pressure.
Unless you want to use it as a combo piece - discard it and reanimate it during someone's end step, kill them on upkeep.
Tree of Perdition should definitely not be in the deck.
Why not? The tree could be sac-reanimated, and if you eternalize the tree you could turn target player's life into 4 instead of 13.
It's not a control card, and it is a huge threat. Try casting this and see what happens before you can activate it the next turn. You will be targeted by everything and it will probably just die.
Target player loses 27 life is not a control card, it is a burn card. If you play this, you better be applying a lot of pressure.
Unless you want to use it as a combo piece - discard it and reanimate it during someone's end step, kill them on upkeep.
In my opinion, that list could benefit from more Ramp. In my experience TSG is a very mana hungry general. Id recommend like 12+ pieces of ramp (10 min). Massacre Worm is neat but might I suggest Pestilence Demon instead? Being able to kill more things for more than one turn is worth it imo. No Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur? He is hands down theee reanimator target. Mulldrifter is overrated imo. There are much better forms of card draw such as the aformentioned Jin-Git.
A couple neat pieces of tech that I have found useful and game winning in my experience are Keeper of Keys and Kindred Dominance. Keeper is usually kinda meh but being able to reanimate it on an opponents end step for immediate mass unblockable on your turn in nice, not to mention the monarch cantrip. steel Hellkite is another one that can really benefit from TSG's instant speed reanimation. Both of these cards ususally die before you can use them on your next turn.
Kindred Dominance is nice when you pick zombie. You get to keep your undead reanimated zombies and scarab just bounces to your hand.
Why are you playing pack rat? Imo its only good in mass discard decks.
Hostage Taker is one of very few ways for Dimir to deal with resolved artifacts.
Also, Razaketh, the Foulblooded just because. That said, he can be a touch slow as you often need to pay 4 scarabs abulity to get a sac target which is quite a bit. Ymmv
Edit: My list currently runs almost 20 instants because I want to do as much as I possibly can at instant speed since I have a sweet mana sink via TSG to throw mana at if I don't want to play em. Like, I can hold mana open for a counterspell and if nothing I want to counter shows up, I can just dump that mana elsewhere. This type of thing works with all instants, It gives you even more flexibility which is what you want in control..
I really like Kokusho in my Chainer, Dementia Master deck cause I can sac/reanimate him multiple times. Idk if you're getting enough value out of a single trigger (edit 2, wait, i guess its potentially 2. Still though)
Tree of Perdition should definitely not be in the deck.
Why not? The tree could be sac-reanimated, and if you eternalize the tree you could turn target player's life into 4 instead of 13.
It's not a control card, and it is a huge threat. Try casting this and see what happens before you can activate it the next turn. You will be targeted by everything and it will probably just die.
Target player loses 27 life is not a control card, it is a burn card. If you play this, you better be applying a lot of pressure.
Unless you want to use it as a combo piece - discard it and reanimate it during someone's end step, kill them on upkeep.
It's not uncommon for a control deck to have a wincon. In fact, I think almost all decks have at least one wincon. Just because a card is not purely control doesn't make it unviable in such decks.
I think I want to make The Scarab God into a control/reanimator deck.
I've got some ideas for cards - Tidespout Tyrant, Tree of Perdition, Lazav the Multifarious, etc.
I'm not sure of a wincon though I guess Tidespout Tyrant and some things to cast ruins board states.
I don't mind something powerful.
Help!
Competitive
GUWB Thrasios/Tymna Breakfast Hulk GUWB - RGBW Tana/Tymna Blood Pod - URGAnimar, Soul of ElementsURG - UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU
Tuned
UBG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant (Write Up) UBG-BG The Gitrog Monster BG-UG Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca UG - UBG Muldrota, the Gravetide UBG - UBW Varina, Lich Queen UBW - RB Xantcha, Sleeper Agent RB - UB Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow UB - GWURafiq of the Many GWU - WUB Oloro, Ageless Lich WUB - GUBRKydele, Chosen of Kruphix and Vial Smasher The Fierce GUBR - BG Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB - WB Athreos, God of Passage WB - UBThe Scarab God UB - UBRMarchesa, the Affinity RoseUBR - UBGTasigur, the Golden FangUBG - GSelvala, Heart of the WildsG - BRGrusilda, Monster MasherBR - BChainer, Dementia MasterB - WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG - URMizzix's Thousand Year StormUR - RGOmnath, Locust of RageRG - GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU - WUBrago, King EternalWU
Legecy Decks
W Death and Taxes W-C Eldrazi Stompy C-R Mono Red Prison R-U MerfolkU
To me, if you play TSG control, you should play a ton of board wipes, including Life's Finale, the good evoke creatures, about 15 counterspells, about 10 spot removal/bounce spells, Jace, Architect of Thought, Liliana, Death's Majesty, Ob Nixilis Reignited, and a good mix of card draw and ramp.
You should include Entomb and a couple of good targets. Tidespout Tyrant is fine. Ulamog, the infinity gyre could be good.
I think you should have some good targets for TSG in your deck, but 3/4 of your wins will be from controlling the game and reanimating your opponents' cards to win.
That's how I would play it.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
If you want a wincon, the one I'll always recommend for this general is Mirror-Mad Phantasm. EoT Scarab God the MMP, activate it, mill your entire deck. On upkeep, Scarab God Laboratory Maniac, win on draw step.
Here's the list as it sits now and it certainly needs some work.
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Dreamborn Muse
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Grave Titan
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Kederekt Leviathan
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
1x Massacre Wurm
1x Merciless Executioner
1x Mulldrifter
1x Night Incarnate
1x Notion Thief
1x Oracle of Dust
1x Overseer of the Damned
1x Pack Rat
1x Plaguecrafter
1x Puppeteer Clique
1x Sepulchral Primordial
1x Shriekmaw
1x Sire of Stagnation
1x Tree of Perdition
1x Careful Study
1x Chart a Course
1x Damnation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Notion Rain
1x Reanimate
1x Whispering Madness
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Command Tower
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Fetid Pools
1x Flooded Strand
8x Island
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Strip Mine
1x Sunken Hollow
8x Swamp
1x Underground Sea
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Watery Grave
1x Altar of Dementia
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Dimir Signet
1x Illusionist's Bracers
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mesmeric Orb
1x Mindcrank
1x Mox Diamond
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Counterspell
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Entomb
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Forbid
1x Force of Will
1x Frantic Search
1x Mana Drain
1x Mission Briefing
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Sinister Sabotage
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Animate Dead
1x Dictate of Erebos
1x Necromancy
1x Nether Void
1x No Mercy
1x Propaganda
1x Search for Azcanta Flip
1x The Abyss
1x Training Grounds
Competitive
GUWB Thrasios/Tymna Breakfast Hulk GUWB - RGBW Tana/Tymna Blood Pod - URGAnimar, Soul of ElementsURG - UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU
Tuned
UBG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant (Write Up) UBG-BG The Gitrog Monster BG-UG Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca UG - UBG Muldrota, the Gravetide UBG - UBW Varina, Lich Queen UBW - RB Xantcha, Sleeper Agent RB - UB Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow UB - GWURafiq of the Many GWU - WUB Oloro, Ageless Lich WUB - GUBRKydele, Chosen of Kruphix and Vial Smasher The Fierce GUBR - BG Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB - WB Athreos, God of Passage WB - UBThe Scarab God UB - UBRMarchesa, the Affinity RoseUBR - UBGTasigur, the Golden FangUBG - GSelvala, Heart of the WildsG - BRGrusilda, Monster MasherBR - BChainer, Dementia MasterB - WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG - URMizzix's Thousand Year StormUR - RGOmnath, Locust of RageRG - GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU - WUBrago, King EternalWU
Legecy Decks
W Death and Taxes W-C Eldrazi Stompy C-R Mono Red Prison R-U MerfolkU
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Why not? The tree could be sac-reanimated, and if you eternalize the tree you could turn target player's life into 4 instead of 13.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Nope, we are a pretty relaxed bunch. Just follow the ban list from the RC.
Competitive
GUWB Thrasios/Tymna Breakfast Hulk GUWB - RGBW Tana/Tymna Blood Pod - URGAnimar, Soul of ElementsURG - UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU
Tuned
UBG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant (Write Up) UBG-BG The Gitrog Monster BG-UG Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca UG - UBG Muldrota, the Gravetide UBG - UBW Varina, Lich Queen UBW - RB Xantcha, Sleeper Agent RB - UB Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow UB - GWURafiq of the Many GWU - WUB Oloro, Ageless Lich WUB - GUBRKydele, Chosen of Kruphix and Vial Smasher The Fierce GUBR - BG Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB - WB Athreos, God of Passage WB - UBThe Scarab God UB - UBRMarchesa, the Affinity RoseUBR - UBGTasigur, the Golden FangUBG - GSelvala, Heart of the WildsG - BRGrusilda, Monster MasherBR - BChainer, Dementia MasterB - WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG - URMizzix's Thousand Year StormUR - RGOmnath, Locust of RageRG - GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU - WUBrago, King EternalWU
Legecy Decks
W Death and Taxes W-C Eldrazi Stompy C-R Mono Red Prison R-U MerfolkU
It's not a control card, and it is a huge threat. Try casting this and see what happens before you can activate it the next turn. You will be targeted by everything and it will probably just die.
Target player loses 27 life is not a control card, it is a burn card. If you play this, you better be applying a lot of pressure.
Unless you want to use it as a combo piece - discard it and reanimate it during someone's end step, kill them on upkeep.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
That's sort of the idea.
Competitive
GUWB Thrasios/Tymna Breakfast Hulk GUWB - RGBW Tana/Tymna Blood Pod - URGAnimar, Soul of ElementsURG - UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU
Tuned
UBG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant (Write Up) UBG-BG The Gitrog Monster BG-UG Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca UG - UBG Muldrota, the Gravetide UBG - UBW Varina, Lich Queen UBW - RB Xantcha, Sleeper Agent RB - UB Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow UB - GWURafiq of the Many GWU - WUB Oloro, Ageless Lich WUB - GUBRKydele, Chosen of Kruphix and Vial Smasher The Fierce GUBR - BG Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB - WB Athreos, God of Passage WB - UBThe Scarab God UB - UBRMarchesa, the Affinity RoseUBR - UBGTasigur, the Golden FangUBG - GSelvala, Heart of the WildsG - BRGrusilda, Monster MasherBR - BChainer, Dementia MasterB - WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG - URMizzix's Thousand Year StormUR - RGOmnath, Locust of RageRG - GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU - WUBrago, King EternalWU
Legecy Decks
W Death and Taxes W-C Eldrazi Stompy C-R Mono Red Prison R-U MerfolkU
A couple neat pieces of tech that I have found useful and game winning in my experience are Keeper of Keys and Kindred Dominance. Keeper is usually kinda meh but being able to reanimate it on an opponents end step for immediate mass unblockable on your turn in nice, not to mention the monarch cantrip. steel Hellkite is another one that can really benefit from TSG's instant speed reanimation. Both of these cards ususally die before you can use them on your next turn.
Kindred Dominance is nice when you pick zombie. You get to keep your undead reanimated zombies and scarab just bounces to your hand.
Intuition/Buried Alive/Corpse Connoisseur are all nice in here too.
Why are you playing pack rat? Imo its only good in mass discard decks.
Hostage Taker is one of very few ways for Dimir to deal with resolved artifacts.
Also, Razaketh, the Foulblooded just because. That said, he can be a touch slow as you often need to pay 4 scarabs abulity to get a sac target which is quite a bit. Ymmv
Edit: My list currently runs almost 20 instants because I want to do as much as I possibly can at instant speed since I have a sweet mana sink via TSG to throw mana at if I don't want to play em. Like, I can hold mana open for a counterspell and if nothing I want to counter shows up, I can just dump that mana elsewhere. This type of thing works with all instants, It gives you even more flexibility which is what you want in control..
I really like Kokusho in my Chainer, Dementia Master deck cause I can sac/reanimate him multiple times. Idk if you're getting enough value out of a single trigger (edit 2, wait, i guess its potentially 2. Still though)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
It's not uncommon for a control deck to have a wincon. In fact, I think almost all decks have at least one wincon. Just because a card is not purely control doesn't make it unviable in such decks.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
So far it's a blast but I need to get a couple more games in first.
Competitive
GUWB Thrasios/Tymna Breakfast Hulk GUWB - RGBW Tana/Tymna Blood Pod - URGAnimar, Soul of ElementsURG - UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU
Tuned
UBG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant (Write Up) UBG-BG The Gitrog Monster BG-UG Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca UG - UBG Muldrota, the Gravetide UBG - UBW Varina, Lich Queen UBW - RB Xantcha, Sleeper Agent RB - UB Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow UB - GWURafiq of the Many GWU - WUB Oloro, Ageless Lich WUB - GUBRKydele, Chosen of Kruphix and Vial Smasher The Fierce GUBR - BG Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB - WB Athreos, God of Passage WB - UBThe Scarab God UB - UBRMarchesa, the Affinity RoseUBR - UBGTasigur, the Golden FangUBG - GSelvala, Heart of the WildsG - BRGrusilda, Monster MasherBR - BChainer, Dementia MasterB - WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG - URMizzix's Thousand Year StormUR - RGOmnath, Locust of RageRG - GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU - WUBrago, King EternalWU
Legecy Decks
W Death and Taxes W-C Eldrazi Stompy C-R Mono Red Prison R-U MerfolkU