A friend of mine was gifted a Bird Tribal deck awhile back, and he recently discovered Derevi was a better Commander than Kangee. Any suggestions on how to build a Derevi Bird Tribal deck?
One thing I can think of is that Soulcatchers' Aerie is among your best "pay-offs" and Derevi, Empyrial Tactician is a very powerful bit of sacrifice fodder because it has a useful EtB and it never gets more expensive.
I agree Derevi is great sac fodder because the ability cheats commander tax, but because you linked that thought with Soulcatchers' Aerie in the same sentence, I feel obligated to point out that The Aerie will never trigger on Derevi unless it goes to the graveyard rather than the command zone - at which point, you can no longer use Derevi's ability to return to the battlefield. Other than that, a great list of staples.
I might also suggest Bident of Thassa/Edric/Coastal Piracy - with a deck full of flying birds, you're almost certainly going to be hitting someone, and turning that into card draw is awesome.
Seems like we're stretching the definition of "recently". That or you've got a whole lot of friends who are previous kangee, current derevi, players.
I stand by what I said before. Derevi is a more powerful commander, but Kangee is the better bird commander deck since he actually offers incentives to include birds instead of other, better, evasive creatures. I see no point to building tribal if you aren't going to take advantage of it in a meaningful way.
If he wants to play bird tribal, play kangee (or soraya). If he wants a good deck, play derevi non-bird-tribal. Or, like, anything else.
Man, I have a lot to say on this subject, but I'm really struggling with words today. I guess I should begin by saying I have really mixed feelings about Derevi helming a bird tribal deck.
My first reservation, I suppose, is about building a bird deck in the first place. I mean, why bother? There aren't that many cards that explicitly care about birds. In fact, I looked them up. They're all right here:
That's 11 in total. And some of them (like Cloudreach Cavalry and Raven Guild Initiate) suck pretty bad, so realistically the list of cards you're working from is even shorter than that. And if you don't work from this list of cards, then you're not really playing a bird deck. You would just be playing a deck that coincidentally happens to be playing a lot of birds and therefore benefits from playing cards like Door of Destinies. I mean, yes, you're going to want to supplement your bird lords with generic tribal cards like Vanquisher's Banner and Herald's Horn because 1.) there just aren't enough cards that care about birds, and 2.) they're just so good that they belong in most tribal decks anyway, but that doesn't mean these generic tribal cards should be the meat of your theme deck. If they were, that would be like playing any other unsupported tribe (juggernaut, starfish, etc.).
In this regard, Derevi helming a bird deck is one step further away from making a bird deck that actually cares about birds. You can build all sorts of decks with Derevi at the helm. You can't say the same for a card like Kangee because Kangee only cares about birds, so it makes more sense to lead a bird deck with a general that explicitly cares about what the deck is based around instead of some generic goodstuff general like Derevi. And yes, Kangee sucks, but this is bird tribal. What were you expecting? Virtually any deck would be improved by helming it with Derevi.
My second reservation is that Derevi is green. Looking back at the list above, none of the cards that explicitly care about birds are green. (And why would they be? Flying isn't even in green's part of the color pie.) That may sound like a minor quibble, but you wouldn't want to lead U/W deck with a Bant commander if you couldn't play it, so that necessitates playing green sources. And now that you're playing green sources, it only makes sense that you'd want to include some green cards except, whoops!, none of these green cards you'll want to include are going to have anything to do with birds, so now you'll be muddying your deck's message even further. At some point, your bird deck filled with green cards that don't care about birds led by a commander that doesn't care about birds begins to become unrecognizable as bird tribal. If you want to build bird tribal, you have to draw the line somewhere between what constitutes a bird deck and what doesn't, and I fear this may be dangerously close territory.
Now, having said all that, I will concede that there's a lot of implicit synergy between Derevi and the rest of the cards that explicitly care about birds. For one, birds fly. They're evasive. That goes extremely well with Derevi because you need to be able to reliably connect with your creatures in order to trigger his ability. In addition, Derevi's ability scales with the number of creatures you hit with. That suggests going wide. Many of the best bird tribal cards also suggest going wide, so Derevi and the other bird lords are playing on the same axis. The fact that Derevi just so happens to be a bird is purely coincidental. I mean, yes, he's a bird, so he's going to receive buffs from the rest of your tribe, but the real reason one ought to consider leading a bird deck with Derevi is because he's mechanically doing all the things birds care about even if he doesn't explicitly call out birds on his card. In that regard, Edric is another card you might want to strongly consider playing if you're insistent upon playing Derevi. While Edric, himself, is not a bird, he very much operates in the same sphere as Derevi, so there's a lot of cross-synergy going on there. Eh, I guess I talked myself into Derevi being a permissible commander for this deck.
Three considerations (suggestions?) entered my mind as I was making this post. First, you can notably expand upon your tribal support by including cards that care about qualities your birds have in common, namely flying in this case. Favorable Winds, Pride of the Clouds, and Gravitational Shift are all the sort of thing I would give a look over.
Second, because both Derevi and many of your bird lords care about going wide, you may want to invest some space into making bird tokens. You're going to get a fair bit of mileage out of cards like Migratory Route even if they don't immediately appear to work well with your strategy beyond having the word "bird" printed on it.
Finally, since tapping yours birds to Keeper of the Nine Gales or Crookclaw Elder also means likely not attacking with them (you could use your triggers with Derevi to untap them, but that hardly seems like the best use), it appears as though you'd get a lot of mileage out of vigilance granting cards. Reconnaissance is one of my all time favorites. Not only does it allow you to fearlessly attack with everything, but you can still untap your creatures after they deal damage in the end of combat step, effectively also giving all your creatures vigilance (sort of). It's versatile, powerful, and I highly recommend trying it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Man, you're playing Derevi a lot different than I do: Winter Orb, Meekstone, Glare of Subdual, that's how I play Derevi. (She does get a lot of undue hate due to being able to circumvent taxes, counters, and Rule of Law and friends, and being often seen as Stax. If you play a well-known Stax commander as tribal, you're gonna have a bad time.)
But if you are going this route, may I suggest Asceticism? Hexproof and evasion is crazy.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Reconnaissance is one of my all time favorites. Not only does it allow you to fearlessly attack with everything, but you can still untap your creatures after they deal damage in the end of combat step, effectively also giving all your creatures vigilance (sort of). It's versatile, powerful, and I highly recommend trying it.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
- Useful sacrifice outlets: Phyrexian Altar, Blasting Station, Ashnod's Altar, Seaside Haven, Perilous Forays.
- Useful "EtB" triggers and Death Triggers: Kindred Discovery, Cathar's Crusade, Aura Shards, Ashes of the Abhorrent, Fecundity, Skullclamp, Martyr's Bond. Cards that allow a creature to tap for value, like Opposition, Earthcraft, and Azami, Lady of Scrolls, are also good.
- Lots of ways to keep looping Derevi in and out - Market Festival, Mirari's Wake, Seedborn Muse, Intruder Alarm (especially alongside something like Song of Freyalise or Cryptolith Rite).
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I might also suggest Bident of Thassa/Edric/Coastal Piracy - with a deck full of flying birds, you're almost certainly going to be hitting someone, and turning that into card draw is awesome.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/797986-crafting-bird-tribal-need-help
Seems like we're stretching the definition of "recently". That or you've got a whole lot of friends who are previous kangee, current derevi, players.
I stand by what I said before. Derevi is a more powerful commander, but Kangee is the better bird commander deck since he actually offers incentives to include birds instead of other, better, evasive creatures. I see no point to building tribal if you aren't going to take advantage of it in a meaningful way.
If he wants to play bird tribal, play kangee (or soraya). If he wants a good deck, play derevi non-bird-tribal. Or, like, anything else.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
My first reservation, I suppose, is about building a bird deck in the first place. I mean, why bother? There aren't that many cards that explicitly care about birds. In fact, I looked them up. They're all right here:
Airborne Aid
Aven Brigadier
Celestial Gatekeeper
Cloudreach Cavalry
Crookclaw Elder
Kangee, Aerie Keeper
Keeper of the Nine Gales
Raven Guild Initiate
Seaside Haven
Soraya the Falconer
Soulcatchers' Aerie
That's 11 in total. And some of them (like Cloudreach Cavalry and Raven Guild Initiate) suck pretty bad, so realistically the list of cards you're working from is even shorter than that. And if you don't work from this list of cards, then you're not really playing a bird deck. You would just be playing a deck that coincidentally happens to be playing a lot of birds and therefore benefits from playing cards like Door of Destinies. I mean, yes, you're going to want to supplement your bird lords with generic tribal cards like Vanquisher's Banner and Herald's Horn because 1.) there just aren't enough cards that care about birds, and 2.) they're just so good that they belong in most tribal decks anyway, but that doesn't mean these generic tribal cards should be the meat of your theme deck. If they were, that would be like playing any other unsupported tribe (juggernaut, starfish, etc.).
In this regard, Derevi helming a bird deck is one step further away from making a bird deck that actually cares about birds. You can build all sorts of decks with Derevi at the helm. You can't say the same for a card like Kangee because Kangee only cares about birds, so it makes more sense to lead a bird deck with a general that explicitly cares about what the deck is based around instead of some generic goodstuff general like Derevi. And yes, Kangee sucks, but this is bird tribal. What were you expecting? Virtually any deck would be improved by helming it with Derevi.
My second reservation is that Derevi is green. Looking back at the list above, none of the cards that explicitly care about birds are green. (And why would they be? Flying isn't even in green's part of the color pie.) That may sound like a minor quibble, but you wouldn't want to lead U/W deck with a Bant commander if you couldn't play it, so that necessitates playing green sources. And now that you're playing green sources, it only makes sense that you'd want to include some green cards except, whoops!, none of these green cards you'll want to include are going to have anything to do with birds, so now you'll be muddying your deck's message even further. At some point, your bird deck filled with green cards that don't care about birds led by a commander that doesn't care about birds begins to become unrecognizable as bird tribal. If you want to build bird tribal, you have to draw the line somewhere between what constitutes a bird deck and what doesn't, and I fear this may be dangerously close territory.
Now, having said all that, I will concede that there's a lot of implicit synergy between Derevi and the rest of the cards that explicitly care about birds. For one, birds fly. They're evasive. That goes extremely well with Derevi because you need to be able to reliably connect with your creatures in order to trigger his ability. In addition, Derevi's ability scales with the number of creatures you hit with. That suggests going wide. Many of the best bird tribal cards also suggest going wide, so Derevi and the other bird lords are playing on the same axis. The fact that Derevi just so happens to be a bird is purely coincidental. I mean, yes, he's a bird, so he's going to receive buffs from the rest of your tribe, but the real reason one ought to consider leading a bird deck with Derevi is because he's mechanically doing all the things birds care about even if he doesn't explicitly call out birds on his card. In that regard, Edric is another card you might want to strongly consider playing if you're insistent upon playing Derevi. While Edric, himself, is not a bird, he very much operates in the same sphere as Derevi, so there's a lot of cross-synergy going on there. Eh, I guess I talked myself into Derevi being a permissible commander for this deck.
Three considerations (suggestions?) entered my mind as I was making this post. First, you can notably expand upon your tribal support by including cards that care about qualities your birds have in common, namely flying in this case. Favorable Winds, Pride of the Clouds, and Gravitational Shift are all the sort of thing I would give a look over.
Second, because both Derevi and many of your bird lords care about going wide, you may want to invest some space into making bird tokens. You're going to get a fair bit of mileage out of cards like Migratory Route even if they don't immediately appear to work well with your strategy beyond having the word "bird" printed on it.
Finally, since tapping yours birds to Keeper of the Nine Gales or Crookclaw Elder also means likely not attacking with them (you could use your triggers with Derevi to untap them, but that hardly seems like the best use), it appears as though you'd get a lot of mileage out of vigilance granting cards. Reconnaissance is one of my all time favorites. Not only does it allow you to fearlessly attack with everything, but you can still untap your creatures after they deal damage in the end of combat step, effectively also giving all your creatures vigilance (sort of). It's versatile, powerful, and I highly recommend trying it.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
But if you are going this route, may I suggest Asceticism? Hexproof and evasion is crazy.
If you want, Scavenging Ooze might help you exploit Derevi with Soulcatchers' Aerie.
On phasing:
Gustcloak Savior is a bird that also grants this ability.
Keep in mind Onslaught engineered it for the Soldier creature type to cross over with Bird. Keep an eye out for Aven Warhawk or even use Captain of The Watch with enough Bird Soldiers. Look out for the Odyssey block cycle of bird legends. Lieutenant Kirtar, Major Teroh and Commander Eesha.
I slightly out of date.
- obelisk of urd + Vanquisher's Banner
I put in Aven mimeomancer somehow as well.
I am thinking of putting in Healer's hawk because it's so strong in standard.
I need a kindred discovery but no one will trade me one :/. I think I am going to have to make a card buy.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own