I think bloodchief has a nasty rep, at least where I play, of making you public enemy no. 1
If you can discard thier answers it should help wrap the game up nicely. Esp before an Obliterate resolves.
I won't use it for now, but finding the deck list I got going is heavy control/enchantment route so I may toss it in soon.
While a bit risky could this be the one deck that can support Mana Flare? Perhaps in friendly groups. Makes for awsome and ridicules games until a combo winns.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
Just want to check my understanding correctly here. If she is controlled by another player, and hits the third player, does that count as commander damage? Also, if we have a way to gain control of her, and equip the assault suit to her and give her back, if she dies does the assault suit stay with the player that had her, or does it come back to us?
Just want to check my understanding correctly here. If she is controlled by another player, and hits the third player, does that count as commander damage? Also, if we have a way to gain control of her, and equip the assault suit to her and give her back, if she dies does the assault suit stay with the player that had her, or does it come back to us?
The equipment will still be considered to be controlled by you even if the creature it is equipped to changes controllers. You have the option to reequip it to another one of your creatures when she dies and even when she is still on the battlefield under an opponent's control.
I'm fairly certain that commander damage still applies but I could be wrong.
Hey all. I am working on a preliminary build (manabase left out). Trying for a discard/high mana to encourage people to use Xantcha's ability. Also some punishment effects and rattlesnakes to have them leave me alone. Here is my current thought, and I would appreciate ALL feedback :
I will look at your list later. You have some fine founds though.
For the future I would sugest formating them after category.
Also, one thing that is commok in commander is sacrefice effects, that is a blindspot for us.
She really does have a lot of problems doesn't she lol. Even still, I think she's probably the best general Rakdos has for casual multiplayer. I am looking forward to seeing what Ravnica part 3 brings to the table though.
While a 5/5 beater with commander damage is a bit big and dangerush I moatly think only one other player has an insentive to get her off the table. That is a huge gapbin comparison to how good she is.if you drop a bomb commander on the table it is bound to die. Not with this one.
Black has some insane big mana supliers. Neheb and mana geysier ad to that. You can probably also run dark ritual as a cantrip. Also good to turbo het out early. Lotus petal, good turn 2, cycle if you draw later.
If you have yaghmoths will (reserved list) then you can recast all those mana rituals.
As categories of cards in our deck we need at least 10 mana rocks/accelerants. But 'late game' big mana should also be a big category.
Are there any sweepers that does not kill her?
Man, I am so psyked for her.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
This is where I inherently disagree with a lot of the "pain" strategies here. When I think about "In what situation would I actually be able to cast this mid-late game and not have it instantly destroyed?", AND "In what situation would players ACTUALLY commit late game to abusing her ability on a player?"-- an easy answer: When it's their only real choice. If you tap out your mana, drop a Contamination followed by Xancha on opponent for example, and it sticks.. your opponents might have zero plays for several turn-- not to mention, drop this on the player that's winning at 24 life with a lockdown board and watch as your 1-2 other players calculate how much mana to draw him out and kill him. So that's the political side, but without a Lock piece players might use her ability maybe once... but they really have no incentive to go full retard unless there's literally no other options IMO.
I know, I know... I usually hate this kinda infinite "you lose/I win" combo crap, but it's a little bit too tempting especially in a game where it's your only out. It's way too easy here, especially when your own Commander provides the Win Cond (don't even have to search for it), I'd throw this in to cheese the last player, and... screw it, I'd honestly just throw in Leyline of the Void and Helm of Obedience while I'm at it since they're pretty good on their own and its just one extra way to cheese someone out in a pinch (And lets be honest, is there anything more hilarious than crushing someone's dreams when they've got a board filled flooded with huge pumped up elf/zombies/etc and they're gonna win the game next turn?), the answer is no
People will commit to using Xantcha's ability in the mid to late game when she's hugging someone the other players don't have a lot of sympathy for, Xantcha herself isn't geared up to be a strong combat threat, and the table doesn't see her as a core combo piece that needs to be removed. If the question is just, "When will players willingly draw cards and hurt their opponent?" the answer is pretty much always, "Whenever they can get away with it." So long as the act of drawing cards doesn't harm their progression for the turn, they'll soak it up.
I think Xantcha is an exceptionally poor prison option and a decent but not super great infinite mana abuser. The problem with strategies like that is that Xantcha, by design, relies on your opponents to make plays with her to give you the value that other commanders generate naturally. You want your kill to be a big mana play? Cool! You want to include the ability to choke out the last person? Fine! Get ready if your table decides you're not worth dealing with, though, because you can't disrupt spells and your commander gives you minimum value (and essentially zero defensive value) without large amounts of mana and/or your opponents cooperating. If the table doesn't like what you're up to, here's what happens:
1) She dies to targeted removal and there's little to nothing you can do about it because you don't control her and you're in Rakdos.
2) She dies to wide removal and there's little to nothing you can do about it because you're in Rakdos.
3) She dies to a combat step coordinated between two players and there's little to nothing you can do about it because you don't control her and you're in Rakdos.
4) The table frowns heavily at you and uses the resources they have access to and focus you out of the game. There's more you can do about it in Rakdos but that draw isn't cheap and you'll likely need a lot of answers.
Xantcha's slice of the EDH pie is being a snake in the grass. Mark someone more threatening than you. Assure your other opponents that she won't be able to hurt them too badly. Encourage a slap fight that kills the players you can't handle late game. Slide in at the end with whatever win condition you like and finish off whoever you maneuvered into second place.
Xantcha wants to play a game called, "Let's all dunk on that person, come on, it'll be fun!" If you get the table to play along, she generates value. If the table doesn't play along, there's a litany of other Rakdos or black or red or other combinations that will provide a better gameplan even with the exact same win conditions.
You also need a sac outlet. Its been ruled in the c18 notes that you get it back when the player controlling xantcha is killed.(i dont agree with that ruling but wth do i know) Also this is imho a casual rakdos commander, locking people out of the game w contamination ect really goes against that social contract, and there are way better commanders to do that if thats your game plan.
*You dont want this card on the side of a sac for profit commander or anyone you suspect is packing greater good. You need to be a little sneaky and political with a deck like this and not care about winning so much. I dont think that piloting this kind of deck would be easy, but sure seems like alot of fun.
Edit: Ok I get why it goes to your control when the player controlling it dies. Had the wording not said "gains control of it." and had "if it were to enter the battlefield, an opponent puts in onto the battlefield instead" it would be exiled when they died. As worded, they have control of it, that control ends when they die, regardless if you ever controlled it in the first place. Kinda wierd but its one of a kind.
You also need a sac outlet. Its been ruled in the c18 notes that you get it back when the player controlling xantcha is killed.(i dont agree with that ruling but wth do i know) Also this is imho a casual rakdos commander, locking people out of the game w contamination ect really goes against that social contract, and there are way better commanders to do that if thats your game plan.
Even at 4 mana a pop I'm optimistic that Reality Scramble will be worthwhile. I'm also looking forward to finally running a deck that gets use out of Telim'Tor's Edict.
You also need a sac outlet. Its been ruled in the c18 notes that you get it back when the player controlling xantcha is killed.(i dont agree with that ruling but wth do i know) Also this is imho a casual rakdos commander, locking people out of the game w contamination ect really goes against that social contract, and there are way better commanders to do that if thats your game plan.
Even at 4 mana a pop I'm optimistic that Reality Scramble will be worthwhile. I'm also looking forward to finally running a deck that gets use out of Telim'Tor's Edict.
With the tuck rule being what it is, would Xantcha go into teh deck or to the command zone?
Here's what my decklist is looking like so far. I've been playing really casually lately, In order to initiate some new players into commander we've decided to use $100 budgets where infinite Combos and MLD are banned.
Some things I observed in the two games I played over the weekend:
My playgroup was not initially eager to activate Xantcha's ability...
...but then used it as a means to remove a problem player about to win the game. So that was cool.
Two of them were quick to set up a situation where Xantcha blocked a larger creature and died. The takeaway here is to consider the turn order on the turn you play Xantcha.
Xantcha frequently got chumpblocked by some small token. Makes me want to run Virulent Plague.
Holding up Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep and one red mana to essentially make Xantcha unblockable against another opponent's Prossh, Skyraider of Kher was awesome. (Edit: I believe this one was brief turn where that Prossh opponent had sacrificed all his Kobolds and only had Prossh to block with)
Ultimately, I'm still unsure what the deck wants to be. Group slug is probably better suited to another Rakdos commander. The real issue I'm having is the fact that most of what would make Xantcha strong are non-creature cards. And yet I want to include creature sacrifice outlets in the deck to be able to return Xantcha to the command zone if she ends up back in my control.
Maybe the answer is assume she'll die before the opponent controlling her does? I mean, I'll definitely put Infernal Tribute in the deck because it can sacrifice Xantcha and whatever else I need to respond to.
Also since I'm 99 percent sure Virulent Plague is my new sweet meta tech, I won't be running tokens anyway.
The direction I'm leaning is to run unblockable or evasion-granting effects and then high-impact single creatures like Master of Cruelties or Virtus the Veiled. I really want to find a way to make the deck more creature focused, so I can slot Grenzo, Havoc Raiser in there, too.
It will keep other opponents open to be attacked, especially with Saboteur creatures like Master of Cruelties
Also try Bestial Fury, it replaces itself and gives a huge boost if Xantcha becomes chump blocked. Or other evasion granting cards, Dauthi Embrace is a good mention because its not an aura.
Welcome to Rakdos, planning ---> havoc.
It will keep other opponents open to be attacked, especially with Saboteur creatures like Master of Cruelties
Also try Bestial Fury, it replaces itself and gives a huge boost if Xantcha becomes chump blocked. Or other evasion granting cards, Dauthi Embrace is a good mention because its not an aura.
Welcome to Rakdos, planning ---> havoc.
The problem I have with some of these is of you use enough of them, the entire table gets annoyed and will make a pact to all attack you unless another player is extremely threatening.
edit: Disrupt Decorum and Wrath of Goad are good though. They're in my list above too
My main issue with Goblin Spymaster is it gives each opponent an untapped blocker during each end step. I like the concept though. Especially with War's Toll.
Corrupting Licid is a card I've been considering to give Xantcha evasion. The fact that you can turn it off for one black helps to prevent a two-for-one.
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If you can discard thier answers it should help wrap the game up nicely. Esp before an Obliterate resolves.
I won't use it for now, but finding the deck list I got going is heavy control/enchantment route so I may toss it in soon.
The equipment will still be considered to be controlled by you even if the creature it is equipped to changes controllers. You have the option to reequip it to another one of your creatures when she dies and even when she is still on the battlefield under an opponent's control.
I'm fairly certain that commander damage still applies but I could be wrong.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
1 Xantcha, Sleeper Agent
1 archfiend of despair
1 cao cao, lord of wei
1 captivating crew
1 crypt ghast
1 dread
1 hoarding dragon
1 Kaervek the Merciless
1 kazuul, tyrant of the cliffs
1 kokusho, the evening star
1 liliana, heretical healer
1 magus of the coffers
1 mindslicer
1 neheb, the eternal
1 nirkana revenant
1 Silent arbiter
1 solemn simulacrum
1 sower of discord
1 stuffy doll
1 Wrecking Ogre
Mana Rocks
1 Basalt Monolith
1 braid of fire
1 Darksteel ingot
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Hedron Archive
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind Stone
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Unwinding Clock
1 angrath, the flame-chained
1 beseech the queen
1 bitter feud
1 blasphemous act
1 chaos warp
1 creeping dread
1 dauthi embrace
1 diabolic intent
1 dictate of the twin gods
1 errantry
1 expedition map
1 frenzied fugue
1 geth's grimoire
1 heartstone
1 hissing miasma
1 increasing ambition
1 koskun falls
1 languish (or other wrath effect)
1 liliana vess
1 mark of mutiny
1 no mercy
1 oppression
1 pain magnification
1 Painful Quandary
1 Pestilence
1 Pyrohemia
1 repercussion
1 sculpting steel
1 torment of hailfire
1 treacherous link
1 unnatural hunger
1 vandalblast
1 Visions of brutality
1 waste not
For the future I would sugest formating them after category.
Also, one thing that is commok in commander is sacrefice effects, that is a blindspot for us.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
While a 5/5 beater with commander damage is a bit big and dangerush I moatly think only one other player has an insentive to get her off the table. That is a huge gapbin comparison to how good she is.if you drop a bomb commander on the table it is bound to die. Not with this one.
Black has some insane big mana supliers. Neheb and mana geysier ad to that. You can probably also run dark ritual as a cantrip. Also good to turbo het out early. Lotus petal, good turn 2, cycle if you draw later.
If you have yaghmoths will (reserved list) then you can recast all those mana rituals.
As categories of cards in our deck we need at least 10 mana rocks/accelerants. But 'late game' big mana should also be a big category.
Are there any sweepers that does not kill her?
Man, I am so psyked for her.
Languish
There is probably more but cant think atm
Not much in our colors without serious setup ahem...Darksteel Plate, or Goblin Sharpshooter + Basilisk Collar
There's always Phyrexian Purge if you have enough life.
1) Board Lockdown
This is where I inherently disagree with a lot of the "pain" strategies here. When I think about "In what situation would I actually be able to cast this mid-late game and not have it instantly destroyed?", AND "In what situation would players ACTUALLY commit late game to abusing her ability on a player?"-- an easy answer: When it's their only real choice. If you tap out your mana, drop a Contamination followed by Xancha on opponent for example, and it sticks.. your opponents might have zero plays for several turn-- not to mention, drop this on the player that's winning at 24 life with a lockdown board and watch as your 1-2 other players calculate how much mana to draw him out and kill him. So that's the political side, but without a Lock piece players might use her ability maybe once... but they really have no incentive to go full retard unless there's literally no other options IMO.
2) Infinite Combo -- AKA "you lose now!"
I know, I know... I usually hate this kinda infinite "you lose/I win" combo crap, but it's a little bit too tempting especially in a game where it's your only out. It's way too easy here, especially when your own Commander provides the Win Cond (don't even have to search for it), I'd throw this in to cheese the last player, and... screw it, I'd honestly just throw in Leyline of the Void and Helm of Obedience while I'm at it since they're pretty good on their own and its just one extra way to cheese someone out in a pinch (And lets be honest, is there anything more hilarious than crushing someone's dreams when they've got a board filled flooded with huge pumped up elf/zombies/etc and they're gonna win the game next turn?), the answer is no
I think Xantcha is an exceptionally poor prison option and a decent but not super great infinite mana abuser. The problem with strategies like that is that Xantcha, by design, relies on your opponents to make plays with her to give you the value that other commanders generate naturally. You want your kill to be a big mana play? Cool! You want to include the ability to choke out the last person? Fine! Get ready if your table decides you're not worth dealing with, though, because you can't disrupt spells and your commander gives you minimum value (and essentially zero defensive value) without large amounts of mana and/or your opponents cooperating. If the table doesn't like what you're up to, here's what happens:
1) She dies to targeted removal and there's little to nothing you can do about it because you don't control her and you're in Rakdos.
2) She dies to wide removal and there's little to nothing you can do about it because you're in Rakdos.
3) She dies to a combat step coordinated between two players and there's little to nothing you can do about it because you don't control her and you're in Rakdos.
4) The table frowns heavily at you and uses the resources they have access to and focus you out of the game. There's more you can do about it in Rakdos but that draw isn't cheap and you'll likely need a lot of answers.
Xantcha's slice of the EDH pie is being a snake in the grass. Mark someone more threatening than you. Assure your other opponents that she won't be able to hurt them too badly. Encourage a slap fight that kills the players you can't handle late game. Slide in at the end with whatever win condition you like and finish off whoever you maneuvered into second place.
Xantcha wants to play a game called, "Let's all dunk on that person, come on, it'll be fun!" If you get the table to play along, she generates value. If the table doesn't play along, there's a litany of other Rakdos or black or red or other combinations that will provide a better gameplan even with the exact same win conditions.
i dont agree with that ruling but wth do i know) Also this is imho a casual rakdos commander, locking people out of the game w contamination ect really goes against that social contract, and there are way better commanders to do that if thats your game plan.*You dont want this card on the side of a sac for profit commander or anyone you suspect is packing greater good. You need to be a little sneaky and political with a deck like this and not care about winning so much. I dont think that piloting this kind of deck would be easy, but sure seems like alot of fun.
Edit: Ok I get why it goes to your control when the player controlling it dies. Had the wording not said "gains control of it." and had "if it were to enter the battlefield, an opponent puts in onto the battlefield instead" it would be exiled when they died. As worded, they have control of it, that control ends when they die, regardless if you ever controlled it in the first place. Kinda wierd but its one of a kind.
Even at 4 mana a pop I'm optimistic that Reality Scramble will be worthwhile. I'm also looking forward to finally running a deck that gets use out of Telim'Tor's Edict.
With the tuck rule being what it is, would Xantcha go into teh deck or to the command zone?
Owner's choice. (Unless the owner is under a Mindslaver effect at the time...)
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
1 Xantcha, Sleeper Agent
Creature
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Royal Assassin
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Conduit of Storms
1 Dark Impostor
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Garna, the Bloodflame
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
1 Flameblast Dragon
1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
1 Demon of Dark Schemes
1 Hellkite Igniter
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Inferno Titan
Enchantment
1 Dauthi Embrace
1 Pestilence
1 Vicious Shadows
1 Curse of the Nightly Hunt
1 Curse of Opulence
1 Black Market
1 Underworld Connections
1 Pyrohemia
1 Vow of Malice
1 Vow of Lightning
1 Tresserhorn Sinks
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Bloodfell Caves
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Vivid Crag
1 Akoum Refuge
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Cinder Barrens
12 Mountain
16 Swamp
Artifact
1 Thran Turbine
1 Heartstone
1 Unwinding Clock
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Thaumatic Compass
1 Cauldron of Souls
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Hedron Archive
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Sword of the Animist
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Sol Ring
1 Mind Stone
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Mind's Eye
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Soul of New Phyrexia
1 Empty the Pits
1 Chaos Warp
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Terminate
Sorcery
1 Exsanguinate
1 Chain Reaction
1 Vandalblast
1 By Force
1 Disrupt Decorum
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Night's Whisper
1 Sign in Blood
1 Banefire
I realize that my budget makes this list look pretty bad but if you see anything you like or have other comments/criticisms please let me know
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Maybe the answer is assume she'll die before the opponent controlling her does? I mean, I'll definitely put Infernal Tribute in the deck because it can sacrifice Xantcha and whatever else I need to respond to.
Also since I'm 99 percent sure Virulent Plague is my new sweet meta tech, I won't be running tokens anyway.
The direction I'm leaning is to run unblockable or evasion-granting effects and then high-impact single creatures like Master of Cruelties or Virtus the Veiled. I really want to find a way to make the deck more creature focused, so I can slot Grenzo, Havoc Raiser in there, too.
Anyone else proxied Xantcha and tried it out?
It will keep other opponents open to be attacked, especially with Saboteur creatures like Master of Cruelties
Also try Bestial Fury, it replaces itself and gives a huge boost if Xantcha becomes chump blocked. Or other evasion granting cards, Dauthi Embrace is a good mention because its not an aura.
Welcome to Rakdos, planning ---> havoc.
edit: Disrupt Decorum and Wrath of Goad are good though. They're in my list above too
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Corrupting Licid is a card I've been considering to give Xantcha evasion. The fact that you can turn it off for one black helps to prevent a two-for-one.