I dont know if Errantry works, need a rules lawyer for that. Wildfire Repercussion and Blasphemous Act et al
Curious to see what others are thinking about this new Legendary Devastation + regeneration ect.
I think my goal would be to make her unblockable so she could hit people for me so... Dauthi Embrace and stuff like Fear or Shizo, death's storehouse. Will need Homeward Path of course just as a stop-gap if they get a way to sac her
Ways to keep her alive through wraths and a lot of wraths of our own - so blessing of leeches is good, but so is stuff like Undying Evil or Supernatural Stamina (she'll come back into play and we can pick a new person to give her to).
Do we control Latulla's orders-type effects since the aura is ours, or does the controller of Xantcha? Cuz I don't want them getting to turn her off with laccolith rig.
She deals commander damage, and I imagine people will resent having to attack with her, so will try to spread the damage and not kill any one person. Stop them doing this effectively with instant-speed pump - hatred and howl from beyond seem ok
can we turn off her card-draw at all, so that she just turns into a living burn spell? uba Mask is a cool way to make it weird, and stuff like Sudden impact and blood oath will punish other people using her ability
we'll probably be a target since we're actively making people take damage, so need ways to defend ourselves - koskun falls, sudden spoiling, no mercy, hissing miasma, raging river... other permanents that make attacking us lame. can go full group slug with it and play stuff like polluted bonds but i think trying to lie low and just make her hit people is a better strategy, otherwise you'll be enemy #1 way too often. you want to seem weak and let your opponent use her to kill the strong person
Hi I have been thinking how to build her since I always loved the character and she seems very interesting.
My initial thoughts were this:
Making her a reverse voltron commander:
This route includes two options: instants like hatred, auras like sleeper's guile that can be played directly or equipments that require a bit more of work. I was thinking about threaten effects like Mob Rule or captivating crew to profit from the fact that you can gain control of her, equip her and then return her and therefore get the triggers of things like sword of feast and famine more than once. Cards like [card]Whispersilk Cloak[/card[ seem perfect for this.
My second idea was using some discards like Oppression and Heartstone to force my opponents to use her ability. This can also lead to reanimation spells that profit your opponent's graveyard.
My third idea was to add some interesting cards to donate, and play a bit with the threaten effects and stuff like harmless offering and some dangerous enchantments, or even spy kit + Eradicate
My final idea was to make infinite mana and just drain everyone, that can be done in many ways. I also liked the idea of using Sands of Time and Strionic Resonator to kill an opponent during your upkeep. Sands of time is nice because it gives extra mana to your opponents, but in a moment when they won't be able to use it for much, and it should help keep blockers tapped, since she always has to attack.
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
I think she fits in a good-stuff semi punisher style of commander deck that has a bunch of universal answers, like toxic deluge and vandalblast, that eventually builds up to a big winning by spell like torment of hailfire.
Per the commander I do love the idea of sticking heartstone almost more for flavor over function. This makes sculpting steel a very desirable inclusion so it could do more than just copy mana-rocks. Dropping her ability to just 1cmc is scary.
And she does fill the roll of an infinite-mana wincon in the command zone. Unlike the other rakdos infinite mana commander lyzolda, the blood witch, while still needing a bunch if colorless mana, Xantcha doesn't need 60 black and 60 red mana to kill 3 opponents at 40 life like Lyzolda. She just needs 3 black and 3 red. That's not much to ask for. So something like basalt monolith + rings of brighthearth, or whatever infinite colorless mana generation, can make for a very easy combo commander.
I personally like the idea or playing her as a more thematic commander, using all of the above ideas, while also pushing reference cards like unnerve and ill-gotten gains in the deck. A deck that has tutors so it could try to assemble a combo kill, but could also just tutor up answers to make for a more amusing game. A deck that can still win with exsanguinate or the likes on turn 10+ if something strange bricks Xantcha. A deck that can use yawgmoth's will as a referance, early combo enabler, and late game good-stuff card all in the same 99
I like the idea of "Steal and Sac" with her; we want to steal her anyways to keep the Commander damage going and to suit her up with Assault Suit. It's just unfortunate that you'll have to be suuuuuper careful with Grave Pact in such a build, lest you get your own Commander off the table.
War's Toll seems cruel, unusual, and awesome with her since it minimizes people holding up mana to use her effect AND keeps the unlucky sleepered target without blockers.
While it sounds very fun I'm not sure if relying in her attacking, or even building the deck to functionally rely on combat, is a good idea. There may be many games where no matter which opponent you give xantcha to, she is facing down a larger creature from a different opponent. The biggest issue with Xantcha is that the more she is played in a group, the more the table will begin to realize and see how she warps the game, and the more likely the opponents will start to use combat to just kill her.
While a very scary meta call, bedlam could also be used to help her not die in combat. Although with some of my opponents' decks I would be terrified to play that card.
While it sounds very fun I'm not sure if relying in her attacking, or even building the deck to functionally rely on combat, is a good idea. There may be many games where no matter which opponent you give xantcha to, she is facing down a larger creature from a different opponent.
That's why you include ways to give her evasion. Dauthi Embrace is a particularly good one.
While it sounds very fun I'm not sure if relying in her attacking, or even building the deck to functionally rely on combat, is a good idea. There may be many games where no matter which opponent you give xantcha to, she is facing down a larger creature from a different opponent. The biggest issue with Xantcha is that the more she is played in a group, the more the table will begin to realize and see how she warps the game, and the more likely the opponents will start to use combat to just kill her.
While a very scary meta call, bedlam could also be used to help her not die in combat. Although with some of my opponents' decks I would be terrified to play that card.
If you use mystifying maze on her, who gets her. She says the opponent, the maze says the owner.
While it sounds very fun I'm not sure if relying in her attacking, or even building the deck to functionally rely on combat, is a good idea. There may be many games where no matter which opponent you give xantcha to, she is facing down a larger creature from a different opponent. The biggest issue with Xantcha is that the more she is played in a group, the more the table will begin to realize and see how she warps the game, and the more likely the opponents will start to use combat to just kill her.
While a very scary meta call, bedlam could also be used to help her not die in combat. Although with some of my opponents' decks I would be terrified to play that card.
If you use mystifying maze on her, who gets her. She says the opponent, the maze says the owner.
Not a judge, but I'm fairly certain she would enter the battlefield under your control, then her ETB triggers and you give her to someone.
Does Bitter Feud sound as hilarious as I think it does?
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
The thing is that if you punish your opponents for using her ability, they won't, and you kind of want to see them drain one of them. So I would rather go on the dicard rout than the punishing draw route. I would rather force them to use the ability with heavy discard.
The combat issue is real, green decks are very good at blocking and token decks with sacrifice effect are quite prevalent, we don't have good anwers in rakdos to gravepact effects. My opinion is that one might use wraths that don't hite her, like Toxic Deluge as a way of setting those decks back.
If you use mystifying maze on her, who gets her. She says the opponent, the maze says the owner.
Not a judge, but I'm fairly certain she would enter the battlefield under your control, then her ETB triggers and you give her to someone.
Xantcha replaces entering the battlefield under your control with entering under your opponent's control. It's not an ETB trigger like the original Sleeper Agent.
If you use mystifying maze on her, who gets her. She says the opponent, the maze says the owner.
Not a judge, but I'm fairly certain she would enter the battlefield under your control, then her ETB triggers and you give her to someone.
Xantcha replaces entering the battlefield under your control with entering under your opponent's control. It's not an ETB trigger like the original Sleeper Agent.
I apologize for being obnoxious, I just want to to be very clear. I know she replaces the regular entering the battlefield under your control, but you're staying she will also overwrite the maze's ability too?
Thats how I read it, also not a judge. Anytime it is to enter the battlefield its replacement effect has it go to an opponent of your choosing.
Also from earlier, if you control the aura and the aura creates the effect, you profit. But if the aura says 'enchanted creature gets : x' then it gives the effect to the creature(and creatures controller)
Me and a friend where talking about this, this might be bad, but how about mirror universe Voltron? Where you give an opponent Xantcha buff it with enchantments, and pillowfort up as the other opponents fight it out? Using Homeward path to close out the game once it gets to 1v1 territory.
I had been toying around in my head with the idea of combining must attack effects with Propaganda effects, forcing my opponents to attack each other. I was going Jeskai, but with her and the Jund Spider spoiled, i think i will go 5 color with Najeela, the Blade Blossom as commander. Xantcha fits perfectly in what the deck wants to do along with Varchild, Tahiji, Honored One (Combo!), Edric, Queen Marchesa, that new blue draw a card Propaganda thingy. Croen of Doom for further shenanigans. Rite of the Raging Storm: anyone who ever ran this in multiplayer knows there’s no card that does so much damage for so little mana. Add in some of the best removal and draw the format has to offer and you have a genuine MULTIPLAYER commander deck.
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Just a heads up but Errantry works as you want it to. I.e. Xantcha must attack alone.
Formally, you must satisfy all restrictions while satisfying as many requirements as possible. Xantcha makes a requirement to attack and a restriction not to attack you and Errantry makes a restriction that Xantcha attacks alone (asuming you enchant her).
In essences during combat, you go through each attack (with all your creatures) that satisfies all your restrictions (not attacking at all always satisfies all, so there will be one) and count how many requirements you satisfy. You can then pick any attack, satisfying all restrictions, that satisfies the most requirements. Assuming no other requirements (and they are quite rare, so this is quite plausible) or restrictions, attacking someone not her owner with Xantcha alone satisfies all restrictions and 1 requirement, compared to the 0 requirements from any other legal attack. Thus, its controller must pick such an attack.
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
The original poster has the eseensial down. Astridsikrosaki is spot in with cabal coffers. By sure to go the whole way: cabal coffers, cabal stronghold, urborg tomb of yaggmow, thespian stage, blacket of night (beta urborg), magus of the coffers, nikar revenant, crypt ghast. Add dark ritual and other good rituals like mana geyser. If you can afford it one yagmoths will. Mana rocks with mutch mana like thran dynamo etc.
The dour killers are:
1 homeward path
1 glacial chasmn
1 humilaty
Any meddeling mage effect.
So be sure to include regular card draw outside commander, and things that remove echantments and lands.
Just drain them do death is the plan. Have some instant removal.
I also see people have problems with the timing rules. You never get to equip assault suit on her.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
Some of them are more realistic and budget friendlier the others. I am probably also missing a lot, like several of the eldrazies or mindslaver. I know my monored Godo deck needs some way through Stony Silence.
I dont know if Errantry works, need a rules lawyer for that.
Wildfire
Repercussion and Blasphemous Act et al
Curious to see what others are thinking about this new Legendary
Devastation + regeneration ect.
We should plan to be a big mana deck so we can abuse her draw/drain ability more than everyone else. So Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and the two Cabal Coffers lands, and Burnished Hart, Solemn simulacrum etc... Heartstone is obviously great
Ways to keep her alive through wraths and a lot of wraths of our own - so blessing of leeches is good, but so is stuff like Undying Evil or Supernatural Stamina (she'll come back into play and we can pick a new person to give her to).
Do we control Latulla's orders-type effects since the aura is ours, or does the controller of Xantcha? Cuz I don't want them getting to turn her off with laccolith rig.
She deals commander damage, and I imagine people will resent having to attack with her, so will try to spread the damage and not kill any one person. Stop them doing this effectively with instant-speed pump - hatred and howl from beyond seem ok
can we turn off her card-draw at all, so that she just turns into a living burn spell? uba Mask is a cool way to make it weird, and stuff like Sudden impact and blood oath will punish other people using her ability
we'll probably be a target since we're actively making people take damage, so need ways to defend ourselves - koskun falls, sudden spoiling, no mercy, hissing miasma, raging river... other permanents that make attacking us lame. can go full group slug with it and play stuff like polluted bonds but i think trying to lie low and just make her hit people is a better strategy, otherwise you'll be enemy #1 way too often. you want to seem weak and let your opponent use her to kill the strong person
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
My initial thoughts were this:
Making her a reverse voltron commander:
This route includes two options: instants like hatred, auras like sleeper's guile that can be played directly or equipments that require a bit more of work. I was thinking about threaten effects like Mob Rule or captivating crew to profit from the fact that you can gain control of her, equip her and then return her and therefore get the triggers of things like sword of feast and famine more than once. Cards like [card]Whispersilk Cloak[/card[ seem perfect for this.
My second idea was using some discards like Oppression and Heartstone to force my opponents to use her ability. This can also lead to reanimation spells that profit your opponent's graveyard.
My third idea was to add some interesting cards to donate, and play a bit with the threaten effects and stuff like harmless offering and some dangerous enchantments, or even spy kit + Eradicate
My final idea was to make infinite mana and just drain everyone, that can be done in many ways. I also liked the idea of using Sands of Time and Strionic Resonator to kill an opponent during your upkeep. Sands of time is nice because it gives extra mana to your opponents, but in a moment when they won't be able to use it for much, and it should help keep blockers tapped, since she always has to attack.
Tamanoa - Welcome to the Jungle
Lists can be found here.
Per the commander I do love the idea of sticking heartstone almost more for flavor over function. This makes sculpting steel a very desirable inclusion so it could do more than just copy mana-rocks. Dropping her ability to just 1cmc is scary.
And she does fill the roll of an infinite-mana wincon in the command zone. Unlike the other rakdos infinite mana commander lyzolda, the blood witch, while still needing a bunch if colorless mana, Xantcha doesn't need 60 black and 60 red mana to kill 3 opponents at 40 life like Lyzolda. She just needs 3 black and 3 red. That's not much to ask for. So something like basalt monolith + rings of brighthearth, or whatever infinite colorless mana generation, can make for a very easy combo commander.
I personally like the idea or playing her as a more thematic commander, using all of the above ideas, while also pushing reference cards like unnerve and ill-gotten gains in the deck. A deck that has tutors so it could try to assemble a combo kill, but could also just tutor up answers to make for a more amusing game. A deck that can still win with exsanguinate or the likes on turn 10+ if something strange bricks Xantcha. A deck that can use yawgmoth's will as a referance, early combo enabler, and late game good-stuff card all in the same 99
Btw I love this card. Xantcha is boo.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
You definitely want to further keep the pressure off of you. Vow of Malice, Vow of Lightning, Curse of Opulence, Curse of Stalked Prey, Curse of Disturbance are all good ways to incentivize creatures going elsewhere, and you can also use monarch cards and Coveted Jewel to that effect. On the flip side, rattlesnake cards like No Mercy and fortress cards like Glacial Chasm can keep you safe.
War's Toll seems cruel, unusual, and awesome with her since it minimizes people holding up mana to use her effect AND keeps the unlucky sleepered target without blockers.
Dictate of the Twin Gods is another good instant speed way to surprise kill people with her.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
If using her to manipulate combat is going to be a focus, then maze of ith seems very important to stop her from being killed in combat. mystifying maze is ok too, even if it is very mana intensive. Shinka, the bloodsoaked keep and shizo, death's storehouse seem also very good here.
While a very scary meta call, bedlam could also be used to help her not die in combat. Although with some of my opponents' decks I would be terrified to play that card.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Does Bitter Feud sound as hilarious as I think it does?
Ideas for more punisher style
The combat issue is real, green decks are very good at blocking and token decks with sacrifice effect are quite prevalent, we don't have good anwers in rakdos to gravepact effects. My opinion is that one might use wraths that don't hite her, like Toxic Deluge as a way of setting those decks back.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Also from earlier, if you control the aura and the aura creates the effect, you profit. But if the aura says 'enchanted creature gets : x' then it gives the effect to the creature(and creatures controller)
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Formally, you must satisfy all restrictions while satisfying as many requirements as possible. Xantcha makes a requirement to attack and a restriction not to attack you and Errantry makes a restriction that Xantcha attacks alone (asuming you enchant her).
In essences during combat, you go through each attack (with all your creatures) that satisfies all your restrictions (not attacking at all always satisfies all, so there will be one) and count how many requirements you satisfy. You can then pick any attack, satisfying all restrictions, that satisfies the most requirements. Assuming no other requirements (and they are quite rare, so this is quite plausible) or restrictions, attacking someone not her owner with Xantcha alone satisfies all restrictions and 1 requirement, compared to the 0 requirements from any other legal attack. Thus, its controller must pick such an attack.
I would add Withering Boon to this list. People never see it comming.
Languish, toxic deluge, pestilence and sudden demise are great in keeping the board clear for Xantcha.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
The dour killers are:
1 homeward path
1 glacial chasmn
1 humilaty
Any meddeling mage effect.
So be sure to include regular card draw outside commander, and things that remove echantments and lands.
Just drain them do death is the plan. Have some instant removal.
I also see people have problems with the timing rules. You never get to equip assault suit on her.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Some of them are more realistic and budget friendlier the others. I am probably also missing a lot, like several of the eldrazies or mindslaver. I know my monored Godo deck needs some way through Stony Silence.