I'm building a Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma deck, mainly to free my inner Timmy from a long incarceration. Then, I remembered Tsunami existed, and well... I'm looking for a reason not to run it. It seems like it would be hilarious, maybe even enough to justify its inclusion despite the fact that sometimes it'll be a dead draw.
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If you want to mainboard some color hate, run Carpet of Flowers instead. It keeps the game fun for the blue player and it helps you more then Tsunami does.
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
My general rule, is that if you're playing color hosers, that you should also have cards that can filter cards in hand so that they can be potentially replaced at some stage in the game.
The sort of thing I mean is that you'd also need to be playing cards like Azor's Gateway. I personally think you should have at least 3 cards in your deck naturally that can filter cards, in order for you to run a card like Tsunami, otherwise it feels bad when it's a dead card.
The other thing is that it doesn't necessarily stop blue splash decks, as it's non-basics that might be providing them the mana. So running Wave of Vitriol can cover this a bit.
Choke is another option, at least this one is ongoing. I think you'd want a small Stax element if going down this track. Root Maze comes to mind.
Excuses for including Stax sub-theme with Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma is that he does have a cost reduction built in. So if you also run Sphere of Resistance type cards, you can navigate around these cards more than opponents in theory.
What would be hilarious with Tsunami is using a Magical Hack-effect while Urborg is out to blow up all the lands. Alas, those spells are blue.
Besides being narrow this card seems like it would draw too much retaliation (in the current game and later, as no one will forget that grudge) to warrant its use.
Not necessarily filters. Relevant discard outlets also do the job well. Or being able to cast the spell and cantrip off it or otherwise benefit, if it's not targeted. So, I might run such cards, provided they're enchantments, in an enchantress deck. Or if it's an artifact in an affinity deck. Or something like that.
Your third option is to force the hoser's relevance: That's what Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth does. (You'll find this is easiest with black hosers, since black already already has so many ways to make everything black.)
Or use hosers, which probably doesn't mean color hosers, which hose something you will find in every deck. For instance, Viridian Revel (which also has Mycosynth Lattice).
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones or something like that. You probably shouldn't be setting a precedent for color-hosing immediately after building a mono-color deck without expecting it to be paid back in kind. I feel like you're just asking for trouble.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones or something like that. You probably shouldn't be setting a precedent for color-hosing immediately after building a mono-color deck without expecting it to be paid back in kind. I feel like you're just asking for trouble.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
sure, run it. expect it to just get countered though. any game where it resolves against a blue deck you were probably already winning. most other times it'll eat a counter, or it'll have minimal impact because a well crafted deck that isn't monocolored runs nonbasics.
The point is that you can’t expect it to be “paid back in kind.” AR rarely sees plays in this format and is not cheap....so probably not in most people’s collections. You would not expect to see it.
The point is that you can’t expect it to be “paid back in kind.” AR rarely sees plays in this format and is not cheap....so probably not in most people’s collections. You would not expect to see it.
I most certainly would expect to see it if someone started playing Tsunami in their mono-green deck. But again, this is beside the point. The point was clearly that the OP should think twice before adding explicit color-hosers to their deck because people might take that as an invitation to hose the OP in return. Acid Rain was just the most obvious counter-point hate card to the proposed Tsunami, but it certainly isn't the only one.
Really, unless your meta includes lots of mono-blue decks, Tsunami is unlikely to be particularly good, and will probably just mostly create a feel-bad situation in any case. I used to run Curse of Marit Lage in one of my mono-red decks, and it screwed over a player pretty bad. Next week, he'd slotted Wrath of Marit Lage into his deck. Point taken.
Unless people in your group are totally cool with that sort of thing, if blue is a big part of what people in your meta do, go with some of the other options noted above. It will make for a friendlier game.
Summoning a tidal wave is about as not-green a thing you could do anyway. I wouldn't run Tsunami because I don't run cards that feel like flavor mistakes.
I appreciate the feedback, everyone. I like the alternatives suggested here. Tsunami and the like aren't normally my style, but something about it really grabbed me for some reason. *shrugs*
I think I'll probably just thrown in a City of Solitude and concentrate on the beatz.
EDIT: On a related note, would you all consider Primal Order to be more or less fair?
I think I'll probably just thrown in a City of Solitude and concentrate on the beatz.
EDIT: On a related note, would you all consider Primal Order to be more or less fair?
I'd say Primal Order is fair. And as an added benefit, practically every deck will get hit, since dual lands are everywhere, utility lands are also commonly played, and even monocolored decks who use no utility lands will at least consider cycling lands.
Keep in mind, Primal Order won't do a damned thing against a combo deck unless you can disrupt the combo.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I've found that Hall of Gemstone serves a similar purpose to what I'd want Tsunami or City of Solitude to do (crush counterspelling gameplans during my turn) while also hosing anyone trying to cast cards with a lot of different mana symbols on them. Mana artifacts get around it though.
Summoning a tidal wave is about as not-green a thing you could do anyway. I wouldn't run Tsunami because I don't run cards that feel like flavor mistakes.
Well actually a Tsunami which is a Japanese term, are generated by large displacements of water, which are normally earthquakes or large underwater explosions. Admittedly that would probably be more of a red thing, but it's the "earth" which is causing the Tsunami, not the manipulation of water.
Summoning a tidal wave is about as not-green a thing you could do anyway. I wouldn't run Tsunami because I don't run cards that feel like flavor mistakes.
I'm curious. How far do you take this? I mean, I'm assembling a deck 'commanded' by a bear, a non-anthropomorphic bear at that. Like, I've got twogods taking orders from a bear. Would this be a flavor mistake by your standards?
I'm building a Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma deck, mainly to free my inner Timmy from a long incarceration. Then, I remembered Tsunami existed, and well... I'm looking for a reason not to run it. It seems like it would be hilarious, maybe even enough to justify its inclusion despite the fact that sometimes it'll be a dead draw.
My 720 Peasant Cube
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
The sort of thing I mean is that you'd also need to be playing cards like Azor's Gateway. I personally think you should have at least 3 cards in your deck naturally that can filter cards, in order for you to run a card like Tsunami, otherwise it feels bad when it's a dead card.
The other thing is that it doesn't necessarily stop blue splash decks, as it's non-basics that might be providing them the mana. So running Wave of Vitriol can cover this a bit.
Choke is another option, at least this one is ongoing. I think you'd want a small Stax element if going down this track. Root Maze comes to mind.
Excuses for including Stax sub-theme with Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma is that he does have a cost reduction built in. So if you also run Sphere of Resistance type cards, you can navigate around these cards more than opponents in theory.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Besides being narrow this card seems like it would draw too much retaliation (in the current game and later, as no one will forget that grudge) to warrant its use.
Also, in monogreen I just like to run a higher density of permanents. Carpet of Flowers, Nature's Wrath, Snake Pit, and even Choke would be options I'd pick over Tsunami. Just seems like I can recur them easily (I always run Creeping Renaissance in my green decks).
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Alternatively, use hosers that are just good all around, like Jaya Ballard, Task Mage and Sword of Fire and Ice. (In my Saskia, Jaya has not one but two cards backing her: Akroma's Memorial and Eldrazi Monument. So the Inferno hurts them a lot more than it hurts me, and even if not, Incinerate supplements the Hydroblast.)
Your third option is to force the hoser's relevance: That's what Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth does. (You'll find this is easiest with black hosers, since black already already has so many ways to make everything black.)
Or use hosers, which probably doesn't mean color hosers, which hose something you will find in every deck. For instance, Viridian Revel (which also has Mycosynth Lattice).
And yeah, Choke is more evil than Tsunami, especially when paired with Root Maze.
On phasing:
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(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Unless people in your group are totally cool with that sort of thing, if blue is a big part of what people in your meta do, go with some of the other options noted above. It will make for a friendlier game.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I think I'll probably just thrown in a City of Solitude and concentrate on the beatz.
EDIT: On a related note, would you all consider Primal Order to be more or less fair?
My 720 Peasant Cube
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I'd say Primal Order is fair. And as an added benefit, practically every deck will get hit, since dual lands are everywhere, utility lands are also commonly played, and even monocolored decks who use no utility lands will at least consider cycling lands.
Keep in mind, Primal Order won't do a damned thing against a combo deck unless you can disrupt the combo.
On phasing:
You don't want to know how she got that name.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I'm curious. How far do you take this? I mean, I'm assembling a deck 'commanded' by a bear, a non-anthropomorphic bear at that. Like, I've got two gods taking orders from a bear. Would this be a flavor mistake by your standards?
My 720 Peasant Cube