Rtfc
Ones instant, ones sorcery.
Both kinda suck imho.
Dragon throne is terrible to me because it is based on power of equipped creature.
They are both instants?
Arcades has 3 power. Dragon throne is basically a repeatable overrun. Arcades also has vigilance so he can attack and activate the ability.
Just for the record, nothing granting reach until EOT is ever a sorcery because reach is irrelevant on the creature's controller's turn. It'll be an instant or an activated ability or triggered ability. Reach is actually unique among keywords in this way, though there are a few keyword abilities (like trample, fear/intimidate, and menace) which are irrelevant on opp's turn.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
True Conviction is downright scary with the toughness/cc of those Walls. You could use Aetherflux Reservior + True Conviction and straight-up sniper people.
(0/4) + (0/4) + (Arcades) + (0/8 + 1/5) + (True Conviction) is quite a curve. And you'd still be up 3 cards b/c you played your General & drew two cards.
It'd be the first time I ever Aetherflux'd someone and didn't feel like it cheesed anyone out of the game.
A card that popped into my mind when I first read Arcades was Brave the Sands especially if you're running the planeswalkers theme. Mainly useful for token spam decks which I face a lot of in my play group which could be why I'm attracted to it.
Did anyone consider brewing Arcades with an enchantress subtheme for longer grindier matches? If yes how many enchantments which synergize with walls you would run?
Did anyone consider brewing Arcades with an enchantress subtheme for longer grindier matches? If yes how many enchantments which synergize with walls you would run?
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Its a land so that's irrelevant, as even if it did have defender it still wouldn't enter as a creature. With Arcades out its a swole manland. it locks up 1WW (because I count the mana you could have gotten from the man land in its activation cost as you forgo it when attacking usually) each time you use it, but its a land that's basically a 5/5 when you need it. As its not a dual, its fighting against a basic or an untapped colorless utility land. In 3 color decks those slots are valuable, and etb tapped is something I'd typically avoid, so even having a cheap 5/5 manland may not be worth it. I've ran a number of the Zendikar manlands, but those usually also have evasion or some other good ability and are duals.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
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Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
With Arcades out its a swole manland. ... but its a land that's basically a 5/5 when you need it.
Arcades only lets defenders deal damage equal to toughness - and Forbidding Watchtower doesn't have defender. Doran would make it essentially a 5/5, but Arcades keeps it at a lame 1/5.
I think swinging out with walls should be the backup plan and NOT the primary wincon in this deck, as I believe Arcades' true power is his ability to gain card advantage while simultaneously building a pillow fort. Furthermore, I believe this deck should be built under the assumption that Arcades WILL get hated off the table simply because of that animation effect, how scary it is, and how fragile Arcades is as he has no built-in protection.
Thankfully, utility defenders like Doorkeeper, Overgrown Battlement, and Axebane Guardian make sure your defenders all serve a purpose if and when Arcades leaves the battlefield. I think these cards in addition to Sunscape Familiar should be staples in Arcades since they synergize with his abilities but can also function without him. (Though Doorkeeper needs extra help in the form of infinites to really be useful).
From there, wincons are plentiful considering you're in Bant and the amount of mana you can generate with Battlement and Axebane. Omniscience, DramaticScepter with Doorkeeper, Eldrazi, etc. all function well.
With Arcades out its a swole manland. ... but its a land that's basically a 5/5 when you need it.
Arcades only lets defenders deal damage equal to toughness - and Forbidding Watchtower doesn't have defender. Doran would make it essentially a 5/5, but Arcades keeps it at a lame 1/5.
I stand corrected
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I think swinging out with walls should be the backup plan and NOT the primary wincon in this deck, as I believe Arcades' true power is his ability to gain card advantage while simultaneously building a pillow fort. Furthermore, I believe this deck should be built under the assumption that Arcades WILL get hated off the table simply because of that animation effect, how scary it is, and how fragile Arcades is as he has no built-in protection.
Thankfully, utility defenders like Doorkeeper, Overgrown Battlement, and Axebane Guardian make sure your defenders all serve a purpose if and when Arcades leaves the battlefield. I think these cards in addition to Sunscape Familiar should be staples in Arcades since they synergize with his abilities but can also function without him. (Though Doorkeeper needs extra help in the form of infinites to really be useful).
From there, wincons are plentiful considering you're in Bant and the amount of mana you can generate with Battlement and Axebane. Omniscience, DramaticScepter with Doorkeeper, Eldrazi, etc. all function well.
To add, Intruder Alarm and Paradox Engine also do great work. The question is though, how much of an effect are you getting out of those cards if you don't have the Axebane Guardian? I don't like sliding in random combo cards if you have no further use of them beyond the specific combo, as they can often feel like dead cards.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Has Words of Wind been mentioned? I think it's an interesting synergy once you start going off with a Wall of Kelp/Intruder Alarm/Paradox Engine and one of the mana generating Defenders? Lets you bounce Defenders back to your hand to get more card draw, while also putting opponents behind.
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WUG Arcades' Moving Castle RUG RUG Doublecast BBB Kokusho Big Black
But you always want to be asking "what makes defenders better?". Earthcraft and Cryptolith Rite even without combo are good as it makes your defenders more valuable, and gives them the edge up on otherwise what you'd be using mana creatures instead.
I'm also running Tradewind Rider and Opposition, as a means to get more versatility out of my defenders.
OK, so one of the best cards in the deck is...drum roll...Brago, King Eternal. Busted card draw engine once you have a few defenders and Arcades. On that note it's probably already been suggested by running Eerie Interlude.
There is also Ghostway if you wanted another effect like that.
I think swinging out with walls should be the backup plan and NOT the primary wincon in this deck, as I believe Arcades' true power is his ability to gain card advantage while simultaneously building a pillow fort. Furthermore, I believe this deck should be built under the assumption that Arcades WILL get hated off the table simply because of that animation effect, how scary it is, and how fragile Arcades is as he has no built-in protection.
OK, so one of the best cards in the deck is...drum roll...Brago, King Eternal. Busted card draw engine once you have a few defenders and Arcades. On that note it's probably already been suggested by running Eerie Interlude.
There is also Ghostway if you wanted another effect like that.
So both of these things, in a nutshell. 30_Walls.dec is probably fine for a casual build, but I think it's a trap to just jam a bunch of walls and swing for a more streamlined build. The list I've got penciled out picks about 14-15 walls - all the decent ETB ones like Mnemonic Wall and the 4 cantrippers plus the "defender matters" ones. Given that Arcades cares about stuff ETB, I think you round out the rest of the deck with some blink enablers and the usual suspects for a Bant blink deck.
So both of these things, in a nutshell. 30_Walls.dec is probably fine for a casual build, but I think it's a trap to just jam a bunch of walls and swing for a more streamlined build. The list I've got penciled out picks about 14-15 walls - all the decent ETB ones like Mnemonic Wall and the 4 cantrippers plus the "defender matters" ones. Given that Arcades cares about stuff ETB, I think you round out the rest of the deck with some blink enablers and the usual suspects for a Bant blink deck.
It's actually a planewalker deck, running 20 defenders. The idea is that the deck has to operate without Arcades, so at least the walls provide protection for the Super Friends.
It's actually a planewalker deck, running 20 defenders. The idea is that the deck has to operate without Arcades, so at least the walls provide protection for the Super Friends.
That should work too. I guess I was thinking more of a blink shell than a superfriends shell. I think the point we're on agreement on is that smacking with walls is Plan B, not Plan A.
Given that Arcades cares about stuff ETB, I think you round out the rest of the deck with some blink enablers and the usual suspects for a Bant blink deck.
This is how I built him replacing the low cmc Birthing Pod enablers for low cmc walls that draw cards. Wall of Denial was already in the deck when it was helmed by Jenara, Asura of War
Ghostly Prison and Propaganda - not sure if these cards are very necessary since people aren't exactly thrilled to be attacking into our board state when it's full of 0/7s and 0/6s.
Sprouting Phytohydra - pretty expensive CMC for a tiny body and no way to really abuse it.
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WUG Arcades' Moving Castle RUG RUG Doublecast BBB Kokusho Big Black
I guess i won't see many Arcades deck then
people playing it superfriends will switch for Atraxa
people playing it etb/combo will switch for Roon or Derevi
Really, he propose you a unique playstyle, while make it general combo #137? Play him with walls and cut the combo crap
I don't think that will be the case. I mean I'll probably be the only person playing a sub-theme planeswalker version.
The key to what a few people have been saying in this thread, is just that you shouldn't go all-in on attacking with walls, unless you really do want a super casual version.
However I have to say that my literal Plan C, which is attacking with walls, has won games down the stretch.
That's the beauty of Arcades, I guess. You can play him pretty combo-heavy - at which point you gotta ask if he's better than other options - and you can play him in a more casual "Just jam walls and attack" variety. Personally I'm going for an in-between, it's mostly aggro but it has a few combo pieces in there in case I need to lock out the game. It doesn't tutor for the combo pieces though, it just goes along it's merry way and eventually I'll win one way or another. (Or lose, if others are faster)
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I guess i won't see many Arcades deck then
people playing it superfriends will switch for Atraxa
people playing it etb/combo will switch for Roon or Derevi
Really, he propose you a unique playstyle, while make it general combo #137? Play him with walls and cut the combo crap
I don't think that will be the case. I mean I'll probably be the only person playing a sub-theme planeswalker version.
The key to what a few people have been saying in this thread, is just that you shouldn't go all-in on attacking with walls, unless you really do want a super casual version.
However I have to say that my literal Plan C, which is attacking with walls, has won games down the stretch.
I may play a few as well, but ONLY if they can drive me to a win. I don't need the draw from jaces. Maybe just Kioras and Tamiyos.
Just for the record, nothing granting reach until EOT is ever a sorcery because reach is irrelevant on the creature's controller's turn. It'll be an instant or an activated ability or triggered ability. Reach is actually unique among keywords in this way, though there are a few keyword abilities (like trample, fear/intimidate, and menace) which are irrelevant on opp's turn.
On phasing:
GROSS!
So throwing that into my deck.
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Pillows are an obvious choice, as is Brave the Sands. Thought Reflection means more cards from Arcades, and from all your cantrip walls. (Also, Bonded Fetch.) Crackdown (and Meekstone) also seem nice, just like in Doran.
By the way, while we're here, Wall of Denial seems spicy as a beater in Arcades. And Basilica Guards can extort.
On phasing:
Forbidding Watchtower
Just no.
It doesn't have defender so no
Its a land so that's irrelevant, as even if it did have defender it still wouldn't enter as a creature. With Arcades out its a swole manland. it locks up 1WW (because I count the mana you could have gotten from the man land in its activation cost as you forgo it when attacking usually) each time you use it, but its a land that's basically a 5/5 when you need it. As its not a dual, its fighting against a basic or an untapped colorless utility land. In 3 color decks those slots are valuable, and etb tapped is something I'd typically avoid, so even having a cheap 5/5 manland may not be worth it. I've ran a number of the Zendikar manlands, but those usually also have evasion or some other good ability and are duals.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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Thankfully, utility defenders like Doorkeeper, Overgrown Battlement, and Axebane Guardian make sure your defenders all serve a purpose if and when Arcades leaves the battlefield. I think these cards in addition to Sunscape Familiar should be staples in Arcades since they synergize with his abilities but can also function without him. (Though Doorkeeper needs extra help in the form of infinites to really be useful).
From there, wincons are plentiful considering you're in Bant and the amount of mana you can generate with Battlement and Axebane. Omniscience, Dramatic Scepter with Doorkeeper, Eldrazi, etc. all function well.
I stand corrected
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
To add, Intruder Alarm and Paradox Engine also do great work. The question is though, how much of an effect are you getting out of those cards if you don't have the Axebane Guardian? I don't like sliding in random combo cards if you have no further use of them beyond the specific combo, as they can often feel like dead cards.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
RUG RUG Doublecast
BBB Kokusho Big Black
The main combos are Aluren, Cloudstone Curio, Paradox Engine, Intruder Alarm.
So to make Paradox Engine, Intruder Alarm better, you want Earthcraft and Cryptolith Rite, with possibly Song of Freyalise, although I don't run that last one.
But you always want to be asking "what makes defenders better?". Earthcraft and Cryptolith Rite even without combo are good as it makes your defenders more valuable, and gives them the edge up on otherwise what you'd be using mana creatures instead.
I'm also running Tradewind Rider and Opposition, as a means to get more versatility out of my defenders.
OK, so one of the best cards in the deck is...drum roll...Brago, King Eternal. Busted card draw engine once you have a few defenders and Arcades. On that note it's probably already been suggested by running Eerie Interlude.
There is also Ghostway if you wanted another effect like that.
Karametra, God of Harvests is also great.
Depending on your build, but Captain Sisay is "the biz" probably in most builds.
That Words of Wind suggestion is pretty good BANTer, also works with Aluren, spending a mana each time to return as many permanents as possible.
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-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
So both of these things, in a nutshell. 30_Walls.dec is probably fine for a casual build, but I think it's a trap to just jam a bunch of walls and swing for a more streamlined build. The list I've got penciled out picks about 14-15 walls - all the decent ETB ones like Mnemonic Wall and the 4 cantrippers plus the "defender matters" ones. Given that Arcades cares about stuff ETB, I think you round out the rest of the deck with some blink enablers and the usual suspects for a Bant blink deck.
stuff
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
That should work too. I guess I was thinking more of a blink shell than a superfriends shell. I think the point we're on agreement on is that smacking with walls is Plan B, not Plan A.
stuff
This is how I built him replacing the low cmc Birthing Pod enablers for low cmc walls that draw cards. Wall of Denial was already in the deck when it was helmed by Jenara, Asura of War
Here is my initial chopping block:
Angelic Chorus - this card felt okay, but the game I actually received value off it (Venser, the Soujourner blinking Wall of Roots) I ended up dying to infect. Maybe if the deck wants to move in a Aetherflux Reservoir or Felidar Sovereign direction it would be more helpful since we are also generating life gain off Perimeter Captain
Ghostly Prison and Propaganda - not sure if these cards are very necessary since people aren't exactly thrilled to be attacking into our board state when it's full of 0/7s and 0/6s.
Sprouting Phytohydra - pretty expensive CMC for a tiny body and no way to really abuse it.
RUG RUG Doublecast
BBB Kokusho Big Black
The key to what a few people have been saying in this thread, is just that you shouldn't go all-in on attacking with walls, unless you really do want a super casual version.
However I have to say that my literal Plan C, which is attacking with walls, has won games down the stretch.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
https://deckstats.net/decks/88154/1033583-arcades-wall-tribal?lng=en
The only real wincon is just wall beats and it works pretty well.
I may play a few as well, but ONLY if they can drive me to a win. I don't need the draw from jaces. Maybe just Kioras and Tamiyos.
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