Sure, did you see the Green Lantern movie? No one else did either.
Oh, wait, you mean Demonic Consultation...
I've used it, but never in such a mundane way. The main problem is, the only way you can be sure it won't backfire is if you've looked at the top six cards of your library, like with Soothsaying or Ancestral Knowledge, and if you play Ancestral Knowledge, then frankly, there's no point to using Demonic Consultation. I've used it with Laboratory Maniac.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Last time I cast Demonic Consultation, I named Necrotic Ooze. And I exiled at least one part of almost every single Nooze combo in the deck before finding it. >,<
On the other hand, I did manage to get Umbral Mantle and Paradise Mantle down (second-to-last card in the deck...) as well as Viridian Joiner, so I just pumped all my creatures to arbitrary size and swung for lethal.
It's great when you either find Doomsday and you win or you have LabMan and you win. It still shows up in some lists I see now and then, but it's still a risk, and I don't think it's good as a tutor in a deck that's not going all in on winning with it.
So, people have already covered as using it AS the combo piece. As far as its utility as a tutor, its mediocre. Its actually great at getting you the card you want for a low cost, but its ability to backfire is just such a huge liability that its not worth it. The singleton nature of the format makes its drawback that much more risky, as if the card's in the top six your dead. It also means that using it to tutor for combo pieces sucks unless you already have all the other pieces, making it less valuable than any other commonly ran tutor for combo decks. What it is good at is getting answers, but you need to be running a deck where you have enough threat density that it won't just exile your win cons. Its so, so good at getting the card you want that its a powerful tutor, but not so much better than others that its worth the risk.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Even getting an answer, there is a nonzero (reasonably at least 1 in 15) chance you might exile your whole library, regardless of what you do. With Lab Man, this is a win condition, so, fine. Name something not even in your deck and win.
Divining Witch, by the way, is the spellshaper version. While Demonic Consultation was good in the Standard where it was played, since having four copies of a card, it's highly unlikely all four will be in the top 6, I don't think I've ever seen anyone play Divining Witch, because there's still a law of diminishing returns with Consultation.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
If you want to exile your own deck so you can win with Labman, then it works great.
If you want to use it as another tutor, it really isn't worth it.
I have one copy for my vintage deck/collection and loved it in my old mono black null rod agro build. It works great in traditional 60 card 4x copy magic decks.
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"Whatever style you wish to play, be it fast and frenzied or slow and tactical, the surest way to defeat your opponent consistently is by dominating him or her in the war of card advantage." - Brian Wiseman, April 1996
Even getting an answer, there is a nonzero (reasonably at least 1 in 15) chance you might exile your whole library, regardless of what you do. With Lab Man, this is a win condition, so, fine. Name something not even in your deck and win.
Divining Witch, by the way, is the spellshaper version. While Demonic Consultation was good in the Standard where it was played, since having four copies of a card, it's highly unlikely all four will be in the top 6, I don't think I've ever seen anyone play Divining Witch, because there's still a law of diminishing returns with Consultation.
Witch was one of the famously bad cards until it faded into obscurity. Hilariously enough, its actually worthwhile in EDH because of Labman, and you can only run 1 demonic consultation.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
One interaction to note is Food Chain decks, where it can often get both parts of the combo - name FC, and you've got a decent chance of hitting one of the "cast from exile" creatures first.
I've used it in combo decks or with Lab Maniac. It's more than fine and I'd love a reprint for a foil version.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Played a game yesterday where the player on my right cast Umbral Mantle, which would have ended the game on the spot if it resolved. Player on my left cast Demonic Consultation for Force of Will to counter it.
Unfortunately for him, Force ended up being third from the bottom of his deck, but he did stop the combo.
has it's uses, especially if you have an idea what your deck needs. mine is a very "comes out of nowhere" type, where i require very specific pieces to pull off a win, so yes, consultation works well.
I've whiffed on it early game though, where i exiled my deck. Ah wells, it happens.
Its the perfect response to my Kaalia trigger to ensure I get exactly the piece I want.
Either you know what you need and you play it because it's another means to an end...or that's it. You're not playing this "just because", you have a reason you're considering this card.
Its the perfect response to my Kaalia trigger to ensure I get exactly the piece I want.
Either you know what you need and you play it because it's another means to an end...or that's it. You're not playing this "just because", you have a reason you're considering this card.
I do that too! The reason I posted this thread is because I was putting it in my Kaalia. It helps find Avacyn, Angel of Hope.
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GMR21=OYS, I know you.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
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I think it is an underrated card.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
Oh, wait, you mean Demonic Consultation...
I've used it, but never in such a mundane way. The main problem is, the only way you can be sure it won't backfire is if you've looked at the top six cards of your library, like with Soothsaying or Ancestral Knowledge, and if you play Ancestral Knowledge, then frankly, there's no point to using Demonic Consultation. I've used it with Laboratory Maniac.
Doomsday, Hermit Druid, and Ad Nauseam do the same. Actually, so can Jace, the Mind Sculptor, if your hand is empty, but that seems a bit Rube Goldberg, no? Probably a few others.
On phasing:
On the other hand, I did manage to get Umbral Mantle and Paradise Mantle down (second-to-last card in the deck...) as well as Viridian Joiner, so I just pumped all my creatures to arbitrary size and swung for lethal.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I play it in Grenzo, myself.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Divining Witch, by the way, is the spellshaper version. While Demonic Consultation was good in the Standard where it was played, since having four copies of a card, it's highly unlikely all four will be in the top 6, I don't think I've ever seen anyone play Divining Witch, because there's still a law of diminishing returns with Consultation.
On phasing:
If you want to exile your own deck so you can win with Labman, then it works great.
If you want to use it as another tutor, it really isn't worth it.
I have one copy for my vintage deck/collection and loved it in my old mono black null rod agro build. It works great in traditional 60 card 4x copy magic decks.
Witch was one of the famously bad cards until it faded into obscurity. Hilariously enough, its actually worthwhile in EDH because of Labman, and you can only run 1 demonic consultation.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Unfortunately for him, Force ended up being third from the bottom of his deck, but he did stop the combo.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
i've done a turn 1 demonic consultation naming mana vault, exiling like 3/4 of my library without hesitation before. The rest of the table didn't last long after i mana bursted into lich-repay in kind.
has it's uses, especially if you have an idea what your deck needs. mine is a very "comes out of nowhere" type, where i require very specific pieces to pull off a win, so yes, consultation works well.
I've whiffed on it early game though, where i exiled my deck. Ah wells, it happens.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Either you know what you need and you play it because it's another means to an end...or that's it. You're not playing this "just because", you have a reason you're considering this card.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I do that too! The reason I posted this thread is because I was putting it in my Kaalia. It helps find Avacyn, Angel of Hope.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.