There have been a couple of threads about this card in the past, but they're five years old and I'm hoping that someone has had experience with the card since then.
Is Shrouded Lore useful in a big mana mono-black shell? At a whopping 106 hits on EDHREC the card is either just as bad as I think it is, or it's super secret spicy tech. I'm not optimistic, but I like the flavor and art, so why not?
The drawback is obvious: most of the time, you'll have to pay an unreasonable amount of mana for a simple Regrowth to get what you want. It compares unfavorably with Yawgmoth's Will, but what doesn't fall short of one of the best cards ever printed? Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed is also a card that exists.
However, I think the political aspect of this card is pretty potent, similar to Tasigur, the Golden Fang's ability. While mono-black doesn't have the breadth of answers that Sultai offers, it still has the capacity to control vital elements of the game. When the board has become cluttered and needs a total reset or just the critters cleared, or the blue mage is running away with the game, with a savvy opponent you can be the table savior for the low, low cost of one black mana.
In the early game, you can recur an early tutor or card draw spell, and in the late game, if no one is willing to play ball, you can pump your excessmana to get back win conditions or important removal spells. It's this versatility and relevance at most parts of the game that have piqued my interest.
I'm going to test it regardless, but does anyone have any direct experience with it? I'm skeptical about its viability, but I've been wrong before.
It has an advantage over Xiahou Dun in that it can get nonblack cards if you're in Bx, and an advantage over YawgWin in that the card you get from it doesn't get exiled if it would go to the 'yard this turn. If you're the threat at the table, though, it's probably going to cost you a black for every card in your graveyard. If you have some ability to prune your graveyard, though, that may not be very much.
I currently run it in one deck, Mary O'Kill, primarily because BR has so few ways to get enchantments (Conspiracy specifically) back from the graveyard. The deck also has Xiahou, since the main card I want back is black. As with Tasigur, if I'm aiming to get an answer to Opponent A's threat, Opponent B is usually more than happy to let me have it without forcing me to burn all my mana.
I think you might have inadvertently hit on exactly how I would use it. Paired with liberal use of the delving power of Tasigur (and Time & Cruise) to selectively limit options opponents have
And just so everyone knows, this is a timeshifted version of Forgotten Lore. I loved the old-school, super-secret Type 1 Tech of using Forgotten Lore as Regrowth 2 through 5 specifically to recur Timetwister. Ah, the good ol' days...
In 2018, I think that Shrouded Lore has a place in Commander in the right kind of deck, but you really need to want to recur a very specific card in order for it to be good (like Lithl wanting to recur enchantments in mono-black), you need to not have a better way to recur those specific cards (such as Regrowth or Reanimate effects), and you need a way to thin your graveyard profitably (with Delve being the best option as others have pointed out). Otherwise, I think you have several better options.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
My deck only has 5 enchantments. The only reason I'm concerned with recurring Conspiracy is because it's Mary O'Kill and there are only so many Killbots that it's possible to run (12, counting changelings).
Seems like it could be really good with a bit of delve to get rid of the more useless cards? other than that I think there are cards I would rather have in the 99.
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EDH BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern: RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
As with Tasigur, if I'm aiming to get an answer to Opponent A's threat, Opponent B is usually more than happy to let me have it without forcing me to burn all my mana.
This is one of the things I'm curious about. My playgroup can be pretty malleable, so convincing them to band together against the person in the lead can be done somewhat reliably. In the mid to late game, if I'm not ahead, due to my deck's redundancy and density of answers it can act as a one mana tutor, which I think is pretty good. Unfortunately, that's not always the case, and I worry about it being a dead/prohibitively expensive card otherwise.
I think you might have inadvertently hit on exactly how I would use it. Paired with liberal use of the delving power of Tasigur (and Time & Cruise) to selectively limit options opponents have
The problem with this is that green already has a plethora of ways to recur cards from the graveyard, not to mention your general's ability. Delve is a fantastic way to prune your graveyard for optimal selection but I think it's too many hoops to jump through for a deck that typically has limited black mana available. I'd rather just play Regrowth or Treasured Find, I think.
And just so everyone knows, this is a timeshifted version of Forgotten Lore. I loved the old-school, super-secret Type 1 Tech of using Forgotten Lore as Regrowth 2 through 5 specifically to recur Timetwister. Ah, the good ol' days...
I want to reduce this interaction into the finest oil and slather it all over my body.
In 2018, I think that Shrouded Lore has a place in Commander in the right kind of deck, but you really need to want to recur a very specific card in order for it to be good [...]. Otherwise, I think you have several better options.
It's less about a specific card than it is about a specific type of card.
If the intent is to primarily use it for finding answers with the possibility of recurring a win condition, would a simple tutor effect be more worthwhile? The problem with this avenue is that I'm already playing the best tutors that aren't over a hundred dollars, so that leaves me with jank like Diabolic Tutor, Increasing Ambition, Demonic Collusion, and Diabolic Revelation. I think they all cost too much for what they do. Tutors over three mana have to do a lot to impress me, so Shrouded Lore's potential to recur what I would tutor for at the cost of only one black mana is what appeals to me.
I'm still on the fence about its efficacy in the mid to late game since I haven't been able to use it in that situation. More testing is required before I make any reasonable conclusions.
I think Shrouded Lore is probably too situational, but I've also warped a Mono-B deck's manabase so that I could play Tainted Pact in Toshiro Umezawa, so I don't have room to talk. As long as you've got a commander that consistently keeps your graveyard small, or if you have a critical mass of ways to arbitrarily remove large swaths of cards from your graveyard, (Watchers of the Dead perhaps?) you could make it do what you want, but you just might have to play a bunch of other not-great cards to make it happen.
Is Shrouded Lore useful in a big mana mono-black shell? At a whopping 106 hits on EDHREC the card is either just as bad as I think it is, or it's super secret spicy tech. I'm not optimistic, but I like the flavor and art, so why not?
The drawback is obvious: most of the time, you'll have to pay an unreasonable amount of mana for a simple Regrowth to get what you want. It compares unfavorably with Yawgmoth's Will, but what doesn't fall short of one of the best cards ever printed? Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed is also a card that exists.
However, I think the political aspect of this card is pretty potent, similar to Tasigur, the Golden Fang's ability. While mono-black doesn't have the breadth of answers that Sultai offers, it still has the capacity to control vital elements of the game. When the board has become cluttered and needs a total reset or just the critters cleared, or the blue mage is running away with the game, with a savvy opponent you can be the table savior for the low, low cost of one black mana.
In the early game, you can recur an early tutor or card draw spell, and in the late game, if no one is willing to play ball, you can pump your excess mana to get back win conditions or important removal spells. It's this versatility and relevance at most parts of the game that have piqued my interest.
I'm going to test it regardless, but does anyone have any direct experience with it? I'm skeptical about its viability, but I've been wrong before.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
I currently run it in one deck, Mary O'Kill, primarily because BR has so few ways to get enchantments (Conspiracy specifically) back from the graveyard. The deck also has Xiahou, since the main card I want back is black. As with Tasigur, if I'm aiming to get an answer to Opponent A's threat, Opponent B is usually more than happy to let me have it without forcing me to burn all my mana.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
In 2018, I think that Shrouded Lore has a place in Commander in the right kind of deck, but you really need to want to recur a very specific card in order for it to be good (like Lithl wanting to recur enchantments in mono-black), you need to not have a better way to recur those specific cards (such as Regrowth or Reanimate effects), and you need a way to thin your graveyard profitably (with Delve being the best option as others have pointed out). Otherwise, I think you have several better options.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
If they have tons of choices, I dont think it is that good, but with only 2 or 3 spicy choices, OH YEA.
Thanks for the reminder, I had this pulled a week ago, hadnt added it yet.
Not that red has any better solutions to recurring enchantments than black does.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
T1 Swamp
T2 Swamp, Demonic Tutor for Sol Ring
T3 Swamp, Sol Ring, Shrouded Lore on Demonic Tutor, Demonic Tutor for Cabal Coffers
T4 Cabal Coffers, Erebos, God of the Dead, draw 1 at opponent's EOT
I won that game.
This is one of the things I'm curious about. My playgroup can be pretty malleable, so convincing them to band together against the person in the lead can be done somewhat reliably. In the mid to late game, if I'm not ahead, due to my deck's redundancy and density of answers it can act as a one mana tutor, which I think is pretty good. Unfortunately, that's not always the case, and I worry about it being a dead/prohibitively expensive card otherwise.
The problem with this is that green already has a plethora of ways to recur cards from the graveyard, not to mention your general's ability. Delve is a fantastic way to prune your graveyard for optimal selection but I think it's too many hoops to jump through for a deck that typically has limited black mana available. I'd rather just play Regrowth or Treasured Find, I think.
I want to reduce this interaction into the finest oil and slather it all over my body.
It's less about a specific card than it is about a specific type of card.
If the intent is to primarily use it for finding answers with the possibility of recurring a win condition, would a simple tutor effect be more worthwhile? The problem with this avenue is that I'm already playing the best tutors that aren't over a hundred dollars, so that leaves me with jank like Diabolic Tutor, Increasing Ambition, Demonic Collusion, and Diabolic Revelation. I think they all cost too much for what they do. Tutors over three mana have to do a lot to impress me, so Shrouded Lore's potential to recur what I would tutor for at the cost of only one black mana is what appeals to me.
I'm still on the fence about its efficacy in the mid to late game since I haven't been able to use it in that situation. More testing is required before I make any reasonable conclusions.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Aw dang. Reading is hard. Brb dusting off my copy of Grave Consequences