Of my 10 decks Narset, Trostani, Yidris, Breya, and Omnath, really want it. Ur-Dragon probably does but he costs so much and probably is about to end the game anyway but maybe I'll get him a face hat too. Rakdos doesn't not want it but its probably not necessary. Ramos might want it for some of his friends like Atraxa or Marchesa. Gitrog is meh, and K&T are meh too.
Basically every commander can make use of the helm but some will wear it better than others.
not really, I cast ur-dragon often and while he is useful and can end games, he often is not the deciding factor.
i am still running Helm in dragons though, I have a lot of legendary dragons who will like it. Along with other useful cards like Scourge of Valkas
Godo does not go infinite, Aurelia does. (Well I guess good can go infinite but not as powerful as Aurelia. Aurelia can keep attacking, godo can not.
Godo is infinite. Copy attacks, not the equipped original Godo. Opponent blocks the copy, it gets killed. Start new combat, copy attacks. Start new combat, copy attacks. It's only ever one copy that attacks each combat, but it's infinite times.
Yeah, unless they have a blocker that can survive infinite attacks (indestructible or prevents all damage to itself), eventually the Godo tokens start getting through and it's game over.
One indestructible or pro red will shut it down. Aurelia, not so much.
I mean it's great on basically most commanders, but it needs to fit in with an equipment theme for the most part, otherwise its likely to be a couple of turns worth of casting and equipping.
So you wont see it anytime soon being equipped to an Edric, Spymaster of Trest, because even though it doubles/triples/etc your draw, it's just not mana efficient in the archetype.
Reaper King - You'll actually get an exponential number of permanents you can blow up for each turn, as you'll have many of him on the battlefield, plus all giving +1/+1 to each other.
I mean it's great on basically most commanders, but it needs to fit in with an equipment theme for the most part, otherwise its likely to be a couple of turns worth of casting and equipping.
So you wont see it anytime soon being equipped to an Edric, Spymaster of Trest, because even though it doubles/triples/etc your draw, it's just not mana efficient in the archetype.
Reaper King - You'll actually get an exponential number of permanents you can blow up for each turn, as you'll have many of him on the battlefield, plus all giving +1/+1 to each other.
Reaper king: Until you run out of things to blow up, but by that point, you should have enough of a swarm to just overrun.
Godo does not go infinite, Aurelia does. (Well I guess good can go infinite but not as powerful as Aurelia. Aurelia can keep attacking, godo can not.
Godo is infinite. Copy attacks, not the equipped original Godo. Opponent blocks the copy, it gets killed. Start new combat, copy attacks. Start new combat, copy attacks. It's only ever one copy that attacks each combat, but it's infinite times.
Yeah, unless they have a blocker that can survive infinite attacks (indestructible or prevents all damage to itself), eventually the Godo tokens start getting through and it's game over.
One indestructible or pro red will shut it down. Aurelia, not so much.
You literally would need all of your opponents to have a protection creature, otherwise you just attack the other players first, get a number of Godos equal to their life total dived by 3. So if you have 3 opponents say on 30 life each for example, then you'll get 20 Godo copies, for killing the first two opponents. You'd have to wait another turn to untap them and attack the person with protection, but there is likely to be a lethal number of attackers.
Godo does not go infinite, Aurelia does. (Well I guess good can go infinite but not as powerful as Aurelia. Aurelia can keep attacking, godo can not.
Godo is infinite. Copy attacks, not the equipped original Godo. Opponent blocks the copy, it gets killed. Start new combat, copy attacks. Start new combat, copy attacks. It's only ever one copy that attacks each combat, but it's infinite times.
Yeah, unless they have a blocker that can survive infinite attacks (indestructible or prevents all damage to itself), eventually the Godo tokens start getting through and it's game over.
One indestructible or pro red will shut it down. Aurelia, not so much.
You literally would need all of your opponents to have a protection creature, otherwise you just attack the other players first, get a number of Godos equal to their life total dived by 3. So if you have 3 opponents say on 30 life each for example, then you'll get 20 Godo copies, for killing the first two opponents. You'd have to wait another turn to untap them and attack the person with protection, but there is likely to be a lethal number of attackers.
not really, I cast ur-dragon often and while he is useful and can end games, he often is not the deciding factor.
i am still running Helm in dragons though, I have a lot of legendary dragons who will like it. Along with other useful cards like Scourge of Valkas
I mean yeah. My general point was that Helm can be good in 99.999999% of decks and particularly on most commanders.
even so Ur dragon costs 9, if you are casting him and have no cost reducers, to can play and equip helm the turn after.
I still cant wait to slap helm onto Silumgar, the drifting death and going to combat. (-1/-1 x The amount of Silumgars you have) for each dragon that attacks meaning i should be getting at least -4/-4. Next turn,, -9/-9 and then -16/-16 sooner or later, every time you swing, boards die.
not really, I cast ur-dragon often and while he is useful and can end games, he often is not the deciding factor.
i am still running Helm in dragons though, I have a lot of legendary dragons who will like it. Along with other useful cards like Scourge of Valkas
I mean yeah. My general point was that Helm can be good in 99.999999% of decks and particularly on most commanders.
even so Ur dragon costs 9, if you are casting him and have no cost reducers, to can play and equip helm the turn after.
I still cant wait to slap helm onto Silumgar, the drifting death and going to combat. (-1/-1 x The amount of Silumgars you have) for each dragon that attacks meaning i should be getting at least -4/-4. Next turn,, -9/-9 and then -16/-16 sooner or later, every time you swing, boards die.
Thanks. The best engine with the least pieces you can get going is probably Cloudstone Curio, which can be used to bounce the original Oriss, and Sun Titan equipped with Helm of the Hosts with Cloudstone still on the field to reanimate and then bounce Oriss. This is four cards total and is a pretty distruptable engine, but fortunately the only piece that is terrible on its own is your commander, Oriss.
Really though, I'm seeing a lot of suggestions that are along the lines of this: "I built my deck to do X, by commander enables/rewards X, with copies of my commander, X is enabled/rewarded harder." I don't really think this a good line of thought, and it's pretty obvious why: HotH is very mana intensive. Casting and Equipping it on the same turn, with no cheasts, is just a little short of casting Omniscience, for a much lower benefit.
More likely you'll be casting it one turn for a large chunk of your mana, then equipping it another turn, to a commander who was cast at some point before or after HotH entered the battle field. This is absolutely, glacially slow. It's fun when it happens, and it can certainly happen, but it's not something I would stick in a serious deck unless it was built to accommodate it.
Besides obvious interactions like Godo and Aurelia, there's a couple commanders where HotH might be unintuitively great: Selvala, Explorer Returned -- comes down before helm, makes mana to cast helm, token could immediately recoup some of the equip cost, with other Selvala engine pieces out this can get out of hand pretty fast. Grand Arbiter Augustin IV -- Step 1: equip Grand Arbiter with helm. Step 2: Blow up all lands. Opponents can no longer cast spells unless they have mana rocks on the field already, as the tax rises as much as they rebuild. Step 3: lose your friends.
Of course, HotH can equip any creature. While looking around, I found Mangara of Corondor, who I don't think is good enough as a commander for much thought, even with HotH, but could find herself as part of some "HotH Package." What other creatures are obnoxious when copied every turn?
not really, I cast ur-dragon often and while he is useful and can end games, he often is not the deciding factor.
i am still running Helm in dragons though, I have a lot of legendary dragons who will like it. Along with other useful cards like Scourge of Valkas
I mean yeah. My general point was that Helm can be good in 99.999999% of decks and particularly on most commanders.
even so Ur dragon costs 9, if you are casting him and have no cost reducers, to can play and equip helm the turn after.
I still cant wait to slap helm onto Silumgar, the drifting death and going to combat. (-1/-1 x The amount of Silumgars you have) for each dragon that attacks meaning i should be getting at least -4/-4. Next turn,, -9/-9 and then -16/-16 sooner or later, every time you swing, boards die.
That's pretty hot stuff. I can't think of too many UWx commanders where that's a game-ending play, but definitely a lot of creatures if you have a token swarm out.
That's pretty hot stuff. I can't think of too many UWx commanders where that's a game-ending play, but definitely a lot of creatures if you have a token swarm out.
Yeah, it's a little limited there. But think of Reaper King. Or, the lock you could put down wih Zur the Enchanter. Either of those would be stunningly brutal.
I'm also putting it in Oketra the True because I would love to have 3-4 of her swinging
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I think it also greatly benefits Shalai, Voice of Plenty as once you get two out they also protect each other, basically guaranteeing hexproof for you and your entire board.
Really though, I'm seeing a lot of suggestions that are along the lines of this: "I built my deck to do X, by commander enables/rewards X, with copies of my commander, X is enabled/rewarded harder." I don't really think this a good line of thought, and it's pretty obvious why: HotH is very mana intensive. Casting and Equipping it on the same turn, with no cheasts, is just a little short of casting Omniscience, for a much lower benefit.
Yeah I was also looking for commanders where getting more than one becomes greater than the sum of their parts.
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
OH! Hahaha this is amazing with Brothers Yamazaki! That deck is getting close to viable now!
Sadly that doesn't work as well as you'd want. Once you get your third Brother, you'll have to sac one of your truly legendary ones. So the first turn you're getting no benefit out of it.
Unless I'm mistaking but
Did you forget what the helmet does
"The token isn't legendary if equipped creature is legendary"
Not to mention the tokens never leave
How can the legends rule apply if the token isn't legendary I don't recall the legends rule doesn't apply thing doesn't remove legend type from the creature.
Because Brothers Yamazaki specifically states that as long as there are "TWO permanents named BROTHERS YAMAZAKI, the legend rule doesn't apply."
Now, this means that you can have two Legendary Brothers Yamazaki. However, by creating a third Brothers Yamazaki, that one may not be legendary, the first two still are, thus you have two legendary Brothers Yamazaki, but you're only allowed to do so if there are exactly two of them. Now you have a third (The copy, after all, still retains the name) so you have to sacrifice one of the legendary ones. Any subsequent copies will have no further problems though.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
OH! Hahaha this is amazing with Brothers Yamazaki! That deck is getting close to viable now!
Sadly that doesn't work as well as you'd want. Once you get your third Brother, you'll have to sac one of your truly legendary ones. So the first turn you're getting no benefit out of it.
Unless I'm mistaking but
Did you forget what the helmet does
"The token isn't legendary if equipped creature is legendary"
Not to mention the tokens never leave
How can the legends rule apply if the token isn't legendary I don't recall the legends rule doesn't apply thing doesn't remove legend type from the creature.
Because Brothers Yamazaki specifically states that as long as there are "TWO permanents named BROTHERS YAMAZAKI, the legend rule doesn't apply."
Now, this means that you can have two Legendary Brothers Yamazaki. However, by creating a third Brothers Yamazaki, that one may not be legendary, the first two still are, thus you have two legendary Brothers Yamazaki, but you're only allowed to do so if there are exactly two of them. Now you have a third (The copy, after all, still retains the name) so you have to sacrifice one of the legendary ones. Any subsequent copies will have no further problems though.
How are you getting the second legendary brother though? Only Brother 1 is legendary since all others are copies, unless I'm missing something. The legend rule rules text would only matter if you made a token copy some other way that copies being legendary, or you somehow got a second Brother card (like house ruling them as partners).
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Brothers Yamazaki works fine with helm. You guys are smoking weed or something.
1. The helm copies are not legendary so the legend rule never comes into play.
Legend Rule
A state-based action that causes a player who controls two or more legendary permanents with the same name to put all but one into their owners’ graveyards. See rule 704.5j.
2. You can't play more than one card named "Brothers Yamazaki" so the issue of having multiple legendary Brothers Yamazaki shouldn't come into play ever.
Why are we still talking about Brother's Yamazaki? Right now everyone is arguing the same thing. Its like you went to a train yard and said "This is a train" an then the person you went with said "No, this is a train" And now you are going back and forth arguing the EXACT SAME THING! Even though there is no argument to be made, you agree on something yet argue about it.
That said, Yamazaki gives +2/+2 to all other Yamazakis, so with helm you will be getting +2/+2 pumps.
...I have a big mana Gonti, Lord of Luxury, very much centered around Gonti to begin with. So, yeah, that's the home unless I think of a worse one that also actually wants more of what the commander does. (Copies of Wrexial would be nice, but it wouldn't have the potential for quite as much stupid, for example.)
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
not really, I cast ur-dragon often and while he is useful and can end games, he often is not the deciding factor.
i am still running Helm in dragons though, I have a lot of legendary dragons who will like it. Along with other useful cards like Scourge of Valkas
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One indestructible or pro red will shut it down. Aurelia, not so much.
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You want some number of cards like, Stoneforge Mystic, Stonehewer Giant, Sigarda's Aid, Hammer of Nazahn, type cards to make sure you can efficiently use it.
So you wont see it anytime soon being equipped to an Edric, Spymaster of Trest, because even though it doubles/triples/etc your draw, it's just not mana efficient in the archetype.
Reaper King - You'll actually get an exponential number of permanents you can blow up for each turn, as you'll have many of him on the battlefield, plus all giving +1/+1 to each other.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Reaper king: Until you run out of things to blow up, but by that point, you should have enough of a swarm to just overrun.
Masterwork of Ingenuity
Copy Artifact
Clever Impersonator
Sculpting steel
all could be use to really push helm over the edge, but now we are looking at a deck that focuses more on the helm which is not what you want to do.
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Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
unless there is only one opponent left.
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I mean yeah. My general point was that Helm can be good in 99.999999% of decks and particularly on most commanders.
even so Ur dragon costs 9, if you are casting him and have no cost reducers, to can play and equip helm the turn after.
I still cant wait to slap helm onto Silumgar, the drifting death and going to combat. (-1/-1 x The amount of Silumgars you have) for each dragon that attacks meaning i should be getting at least -4/-4. Next turn,, -9/-9 and then -16/-16 sooner or later, every time you swing, boards die.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Thinking about it, how cool would Mirrorweave be with Helm of the Host? In 5C or Esper, equip Helm, Mirrorweave the token Silumgar, the Drifting Death and watch the board wither.
Or for my Zedruu deck, equip The Locust God, Mirrorweave, draw a ton and freaking SWARM.
Thanks. The best engine with the least pieces you can get going is probably Cloudstone Curio, which can be used to bounce the original Oriss, and Sun Titan equipped with Helm of the Hosts with Cloudstone still on the field to reanimate and then bounce Oriss. This is four cards total and is a pretty distruptable engine, but fortunately the only piece that is terrible on its own is your commander, Oriss.
Really though, I'm seeing a lot of suggestions that are along the lines of this: "I built my deck to do X, by commander enables/rewards X, with copies of my commander, X is enabled/rewarded harder." I don't really think this a good line of thought, and it's pretty obvious why: HotH is very mana intensive. Casting and Equipping it on the same turn, with no cheasts, is just a little short of casting Omniscience, for a much lower benefit.
More likely you'll be casting it one turn for a large chunk of your mana, then equipping it another turn, to a commander who was cast at some point before or after HotH entered the battle field. This is absolutely, glacially slow. It's fun when it happens, and it can certainly happen, but it's not something I would stick in a serious deck unless it was built to accommodate it.
Besides obvious interactions like Godo and Aurelia, there's a couple commanders where HotH might be unintuitively great:
Selvala, Explorer Returned -- comes down before helm, makes mana to cast helm, token could immediately recoup some of the equip cost, with other Selvala engine pieces out this can get out of hand pretty fast.
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV -- Step 1: equip Grand Arbiter with helm. Step 2: Blow up all lands. Opponents can no longer cast spells unless they have mana rocks on the field already, as the tax rises as much as they rebuild. Step 3: lose your friends.
Of course, HotH can equip any creature. While looking around, I found Mangara of Corondor, who I don't think is good enough as a commander for much thought, even with HotH, but could find herself as part of some "HotH Package." What other creatures are obnoxious when copied every turn?
The helm itself is legendary, so you wouldn't be able to copy it.
Gonti, Lord of Luxury to nab an opponent's card.
Kaervek the Merciless to stack on the pain.
Rashmi, Eternities Crafter can get a free spell or draw.
Rasputin Dreamweaver a 7 battery each time.
Ezuri, Claw of Progress can make a lot of counters.
You evil man
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
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WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
That's pretty hot stuff. I can't think of too many UWx commanders where that's a game-ending play, but definitely a lot of creatures if you have a token swarm out.
Yeah, it's a little limited there. But think of Reaper King. Or, the lock you could put down wih Zur the Enchanter. Either of those would be stunningly brutal.
I'm also putting it in Oketra the True because I would love to have 3-4 of her swinging
UG Tishana, Voice of Thunder GU
UBW Sen Triplets WBU
WUBGAtraxa, Praetors' Voice GBUW
WUBRGJodah, Archmage Eternal GRBUW
GWR Mayael the Anima RWG
RWB Edgar Markov BWR
WG Gaddok Teeg GW
W Oketra the True W
---
My Decklist Folder
Yeah I was also looking for commanders where getting more than one becomes greater than the sum of their parts.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Because Brothers Yamazaki specifically states that as long as there are "TWO permanents named BROTHERS YAMAZAKI, the legend rule doesn't apply."
Now, this means that you can have two Legendary Brothers Yamazaki. However, by creating a third Brothers Yamazaki, that one may not be legendary, the first two still are, thus you have two legendary Brothers Yamazaki, but you're only allowed to do so if there are exactly two of them. Now you have a third (The copy, after all, still retains the name) so you have to sacrifice one of the legendary ones. Any subsequent copies will have no further problems though.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
How are you getting the second legendary brother though? Only Brother 1 is legendary since all others are copies, unless I'm missing something. The legend rule rules text would only matter if you made a token copy some other way that copies being legendary, or you somehow got a second Brother card (like house ruling them as partners).
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
1. The helm copies are not legendary so the legend rule never comes into play.
2. You can't play more than one card named "Brothers Yamazaki" so the issue of having multiple legendary Brothers Yamazaki shouldn't come into play ever.
That said, Yamazaki gives +2/+2 to all other Yamazakis, so with helm you will be getting +2/+2 pumps.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
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WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
yuck. do not like.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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