I need help finding a deck. If I haven't already lost you, please continue reading.
While this may no be the best way to begin my first thread on the Commander side of these forums, in the spirit of full disclosure, I have to tell you that this will be my third time trying EDH/Commander. I have played Magic for at least a decade now, but every time I've ever tried to play Commander, I haven't really enjoyed. In theory, the format seems awesome to me, but in practice, I get wipe away almost every time because I didn't draw a good curve, my deck wasn't that good to begin with, or I just didn't play well. I say this to tell you that I realize my unhappiness with EDH probably has more to due with poor deckbuilding choices and playing than the format itself. Therefore, I need your help and advice.
What Commander should I play?
I'm looking for one that is moderately competitive, but not cutthroat. One that would give me a fair chance against more established players, so that I can interact and play Magic. I like to win, but as long as the games are somewhat close, I have fun. A deck that can be built on a fair budget, but that I wouldn't mind upgrading over time if I stick with the format.
I like decks that tend to control the board and have answers to different types of threats.
Most of my casual 60 card decks tend to control the board until I can begin to play Battlecruiser Magic. Grindy games.
Most importantly, I like decks that include some type of engine to generate card advantage, especially if that engine is recursive. For example, my favorite casual deck is a Seasons Past deck that might even work well here.
Previously, I've tried building Ezuri, Claw of Progress and Azusa, Lost but Seeking.
With this in mind, I think a Sultai, Jund, or Abzan deck might be best, but if you think otherwise, please let me know.
Thank you for reading this and for any advice you can give.
Sultai is probably the most flexible. It has a lot of really good commanders.
I'd probably start w/ the type of cards u want to play w/. I like stuff like life from the loam, birthing pod and gy strategies. When I saw the rally the ancestors standard deck I wanted a similar edh deck and slowly converted my sidisi deck to a mass rez strat. It's now easily my favorite deck and haven't really seen anything else like it.
It can generate slow value and attrition out ppl w/ targeted rezzing, loam + cycle lands, pod and all the etb. Swarm w/ sidisi into craterhoof win. Or rez everything from everyone's gy and just win, or cast a massive genesis wave w/ urborg coffers combo. I stayed away from infinite combos b/c it tends to make decks boring imo.
I would make a suggestion to run WBG. A graveyard reanimated deck. You literally have the best removal in those colours as well as some of the most degenerate creatures. Everything from creature removal, artifact and enchantment destruction, Planeswalker removal and hand destruction. Most of the commanders are synergistic with the style or Grindy games. I currently run Teneb, the Harvested for the reanimation ability. It's really up to you.
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What I'm Playing
EDH/Commander
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Teneb, The Harvester
Brago, King Eternal
if you're on a budget & like green & black, just buy the Meren of Clan Nel Toth precon. it can grind & generate value w/ the best of them right out of the box. of course it can be upgraded & there are better cards that you could add to it, but honestly, the only card i feel like WoTC dropped the ball on including is Spore Frog, but thats a cheap enuff card to buy & add to the deck.
Pick a (strong enough) general that really appeals to you, is my advice. A creature you want to cast over and over, or at least (quite likely) more than once on average.
As for colours, I personally prefer to have either White or Green (or both) in most decks, because of convenient access to removal of some otherwise difficult permanents. Also, having White or Black (or both) is handy for creature removal / sweepers.
My general tendencies aside, it is also worth looking at deck types, and what takes your fancy there: spellslinger, voltron, combo, control, stax/prison, goodstuff/recursion, reanimator, swarm/tokens, pillowfort, and so on. Better to build what you will enjoy playing, long term.
Muldrotha or Karador both seem like where I want to be. I'd like to build s recursive, good stuff, control deck. I've looked at deck lists for Karador before and been to EDHRec but I'm still unsure how to construct a deck. I assume you start with different win conditions and packages for removal and card draw. Any advice there?
don't want to be mean and you might have gotten better since then but it seems like deck building might be your weakness at least in this format.
one big mistake people make in edh early is they don't play ramp so they can get to the end game quicker and more things feel on curve.
in would possibly look at some primers for the decks you are interested but be careful because some might not play right if you try to budgrtize them especially if you try to remove the tutors because they are expensive. there is no shame in wasting a d tutor for an urborg.
I personally really like ezuri claw of progress. it can win thru combo, going tall, or going wide without changing the deck. the idea of the deck is simple but it plays out differently every time depending on board state and what decks you're playing against.
No offense taken. I realize that I'm bad at deck building in this format. A lot of the time what I've found is that EDH decks seem to rely on different packages for ramp and win conditions, ect. When I look at a deck someone else has build, it's difficult to tell which pieces are most important and which pieces so what. What you said about missing tutors because they're expensive also totally applies to me. Is there a way to build decks for this format without expensive tutors?
For grindy games my vote is Abzan,(B for tutor/draw/creature control, W for removal/recursion, G for ramp/recursion, fatties and draw) pick a one you like. If Karador is your thang then decide what type of deck you want. Inf combo, gy recursion/attrition, goodstuff value ect.
Now the most important thing about building a commander deck.
Playtest, tweak, play, tweak more, repeat.
Decks dont come finished, they take alot of subtle and deft changes. Try not to get discouraged and if something isn't working, change it little by little.
Commander is a ramp, draw, engine format. Find a balance that works for you, id try 8-10ish ramp spells/effects depending on how big you want to go, and 6-9 ish draw spells/effects. There is no set in stone answers for these, every deck is different.
Then toss in some removal, mass and spot.
Then add in what you want your deck to do.
In each instance I try to keep a 'curve' in mind. 2 mana ramp is awesome, 1 mana dorks better. Scale these down. Example*
4-5 dorks, 3-4x 2 mana ramp, 2 or so 3 mana spells (kodamas reach ect)
Then follow suit with removal and draw.
Hopefully you have a functional deck after all this then keep playtesting, tweaking, searching for other synergistic options, tweaking, playing etc.
In order to improve your deckbuilding, look for the 8x8 commander theory (on phone no url sorry). They provide a good basic approach to start building decks.
My personal experience has taught me that, after brainstorming cards, to first pick the removal, ramp and draw I want to run. Set those aside, then fill the rest of the deck with the cool stuff that will make your deck awesome. If found that if I first build the cool stuff i’m usually tempted to skimp on these to make room, but these are like the radiator and oil tubes on a Ferrari: it’s not what makes it awesome, but it won’t run properly without them even though the rest is specced off the charts.
As for how much land to run, my starting formula is 35 + average cmc of cards in deck rounded up -/- 1 for every 4 ramp cards i run.
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Having a 2 and 3 drop (one of which is a mana sink) in the command zone will help make sure you always have a good early curve.
This set of colors lets you play a wonderful selection of answers, including ways to interact on the stack. Seasons Past is wonderful in the deck.
No offense taken. I realize that I'm bad at deck building in this format. A lot of the time what I've found is that EDH decks seem to rely on different packages for ramp and win conditions, ect. When I look at a deck someone else has build, it's difficult to tell which pieces are most important and which pieces so what. What you said about missing tutors because they're expensive also totally applies to me. Is there a way to build decks for this format without expensive tutors?
Unless you're planning on making a competitive deck you really don't need to go all-out for efficient tutors. I try to keep my (non-land, obviously) tutors as minimal as possible to help keep the games fresh. If you just tutor for the same 2 cards every game it gets pretty boring pretty fast. If you feel like you NEED tutors you can try running some of the less expensive, less efficient ones like Diabolic Tutor or Increasing Ambition, or maybe some of the creature-only ones like Green Sun's Zenith or Chord of Calling to restrict yourself.
At the end of the day it's up to you. You've got to do whatever you like and build a deck that you enjoy playing.
No offense taken. I realize that I'm bad at deck building in this format. A lot of the time what I've found is that EDH decks seem to rely on different packages for ramp and win conditions, ect. When I look at a deck someone else has build, it's difficult to tell which pieces are most important and which pieces so what. What you said about missing tutors because they're expensive also totally applies to me. Is there a way to build decks for this format without expensive tutors?
you can help negate the lack of tutors by playing blue and some good draw spells. beseech the queen is a decent budget tutor. or like stated play the more narrow tutors however I feel they run more into the problem he stated where you grab the same creature each time.
Unless you're planning on making a competitive deck you really don't need to go all-out for efficient tutors. I try to keep my (non-land, obviously) tutors as minimal as possible to help keep the games fresh. If you just tutor for the same 2 cards every game it gets pretty boring pretty fast. If you feel like you NEED tutors you can try running some of the less expensive, less efficient ones like Diabolic Tutor or Increasing Ambition, or maybe some of the creature-only ones like Green Sun's Zenith or Chord of Calling to restrict yourself.
If you are using a tutor in a combo deck then yes it feels this way. But playing it in something else it very rarely gets the same thing every game. draw a cabal coffer grab the urborg. need a board wipe even then some are better at certain things grab a toxic deluge for indestructible or damnation for a easy wipe. Even grabbing a life from the loam to turn on the value train is acceptable. the utility tutors bring are really not easy to replace.
Like some others have said, pick a commander you think is cool and would like to cast many times throughout the game. Pick a strategy or a theme that compliments the commander and has some sweet cards that you like to play.
Whatever you build, for starters I would start with 35 lands, around 10 ramp spells, and some card draw. After that, find cards that work well with your commander, and prioritize those. After that some removal/gravehate and that should be enough to play some of your first games.
I would recommend a pro-active strategy to a beginner, rather than a controlling style. It doesn't have to be 'attack with creatures' but it should be something you are working towards, not trying to prevent the opponent from doing. Push towards a goal.
Pick a commander with 2 or 3 colors. One color limits you a bunch, and 4-5 colors gives huge consistency problems when building on a budget.
I just wanted to thank all of you for your help in helping me decide. I think that I have it narrowed down to several choices, but I'd still like your input concerning which one would be strongest to build starting on a budget of about $150.
I just wanted to thank all of you for your help in helping me decide. I think that I have it narrowed down to several choices, but I'd still like your input concerning which one would be strongest to build starting on a budget of about $150.
I would say it comes down to either Karador or Muldrotha, with the main factor being would you rather play Blue or White? Blue gives you Counterspells and Cyclonic Rift while White gives you some value creatures like Karmic Guide and quality removal like Swords. I think both will end up being roughly equal in terms of power (making a guess about Muldrotha, obviously) and it will come down how you would prefer to play.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I need help finding a deck. If I haven't already lost you, please continue reading.
While this may no be the best way to begin my first thread on the Commander side of these forums, in the spirit of full disclosure, I have to tell you that this will be my third time trying EDH/Commander. I have played Magic for at least a decade now, but every time I've ever tried to play Commander, I haven't really enjoyed. In theory, the format seems awesome to me, but in practice, I get wipe away almost every time because I didn't draw a good curve, my deck wasn't that good to begin with, or I just didn't play well. I say this to tell you that I realize my unhappiness with EDH probably has more to due with poor deckbuilding choices and playing than the format itself. Therefore, I need your help and advice.
What Commander should I play?
I'm looking for one that is moderately competitive, but not cutthroat. One that would give me a fair chance against more established players, so that I can interact and play Magic. I like to win, but as long as the games are somewhat close, I have fun. A deck that can be built on a fair budget, but that I wouldn't mind upgrading over time if I stick with the format.
I like decks that tend to control the board and have answers to different types of threats.
Most of my casual 60 card decks tend to control the board until I can begin to play Battlecruiser Magic. Grindy games.
Most importantly, I like decks that include some type of engine to generate card advantage, especially if that engine is recursive. For example, my favorite casual deck is a Seasons Past deck that might even work well here.
Previously, I've tried building Ezuri, Claw of Progress and Azusa, Lost but Seeking.
With this in mind, I think a Sultai, Jund, or Abzan deck might be best, but if you think otherwise, please let me know.
Thank you for reading this and for any advice you can give.
I'd probably start w/ the type of cards u want to play w/. I like stuff like life from the loam, birthing pod and gy strategies. When I saw the rally the ancestors standard deck I wanted a similar edh deck and slowly converted my sidisi deck to a mass rez strat. It's now easily my favorite deck and haven't really seen anything else like it.
It can generate slow value and attrition out ppl w/ targeted rezzing, loam + cycle lands, pod and all the etb. Swarm w/ sidisi into craterhoof win. Or rez everything from everyone's gy and just win, or cast a massive genesis wave w/ urborg coffers combo. I stayed away from infinite combos b/c it tends to make decks boring imo.
EDH/Commander
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Teneb, The Harvester
Brago, King Eternal
As for colours, I personally prefer to have either White or Green (or both) in most decks, because of convenient access to removal of some otherwise difficult permanents. Also, having White or Black (or both) is handy for creature removal / sweepers.
My general tendencies aside, it is also worth looking at deck types, and what takes your fancy there: spellslinger, voltron, combo, control, stax/prison, goodstuff/recursion, reanimator, swarm/tokens, pillowfort, and so on. Better to build what you will enjoy playing, long term.
one big mistake people make in edh early is they don't play ramp so they can get to the end game quicker and more things feel on curve.
in would possibly look at some primers for the decks you are interested but be careful because some might not play right if you try to budgrtize them especially if you try to remove the tutors because they are expensive. there is no shame in wasting a d tutor for an urborg.
I personally really like ezuri claw of progress. it can win thru combo, going tall, or going wide without changing the deck. the idea of the deck is simple but it plays out differently every time depending on board state and what decks you're playing against.
Now the most important thing about building a commander deck.
Playtest, tweak, play, tweak more, repeat.
Decks dont come finished, they take alot of subtle and deft changes. Try not to get discouraged and if something isn't working, change it little by little.
Commander is a ramp, draw, engine format. Find a balance that works for you, id try 8-10ish ramp spells/effects depending on how big you want to go, and 6-9 ish draw spells/effects. There is no set in stone answers for these, every deck is different.
Then toss in some removal, mass and spot.
Then add in what you want your deck to do.
In each instance I try to keep a 'curve' in mind. 2 mana ramp is awesome, 1 mana dorks better. Scale these down. Example*
4-5 dorks, 3-4x 2 mana ramp, 2 or so 3 mana spells (kodamas reach ect)
Then follow suit with removal and draw.
Hopefully you have a functional deck after all this then keep playtesting, tweaking, searching for other synergistic options, tweaking, playing etc.
My personal experience has taught me that, after brainstorming cards, to first pick the removal, ramp and draw I want to run. Set those aside, then fill the rest of the deck with the cool stuff that will make your deck awesome. If found that if I first build the cool stuff i’m usually tempted to skimp on these to make room, but these are like the radiator and oil tubes on a Ferrari: it’s not what makes it awesome, but it won’t run properly without them even though the rest is specced off the charts.
As for how much land to run, my starting formula is 35 + average cmc of cards in deck rounded up -/- 1 for every 4 ramp cards i run.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Having a 2 and 3 drop (one of which is a mana sink) in the command zone will help make sure you always have a good early curve.
This set of colors lets you play a wonderful selection of answers, including ways to interact on the stack.
Seasons Past is wonderful in the deck.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
Unless you're planning on making a competitive deck you really don't need to go all-out for efficient tutors. I try to keep my (non-land, obviously) tutors as minimal as possible to help keep the games fresh. If you just tutor for the same 2 cards every game it gets pretty boring pretty fast. If you feel like you NEED tutors you can try running some of the less expensive, less efficient ones like Diabolic Tutor or Increasing Ambition, or maybe some of the creature-only ones like Green Sun's Zenith or Chord of Calling to restrict yourself.
At the end of the day it's up to you. You've got to do whatever you like and build a deck that you enjoy playing.
you can help negate the lack of tutors by playing blue and some good draw spells. beseech the queen is a decent budget tutor. or like stated play the more narrow tutors however I feel they run more into the problem he stated where you grab the same creature each time.
If you are using a tutor in a combo deck then yes it feels this way. But playing it in something else it very rarely gets the same thing every game. draw a cabal coffer grab the urborg. need a board wipe even then some are better at certain things grab a toxic deluge for indestructible or damnation for a easy wipe. Even grabbing a life from the loam to turn on the value train is acceptable. the utility tutors bring are really not easy to replace.
Whatever you build, for starters I would start with 35 lands, around 10 ramp spells, and some card draw. After that, find cards that work well with your commander, and prioritize those. After that some removal/gravehate and that should be enough to play some of your first games.
I would recommend a pro-active strategy to a beginner, rather than a controlling style. It doesn't have to be 'attack with creatures' but it should be something you are working towards, not trying to prevent the opponent from doing. Push towards a goal.
Pick a commander with 2 or 3 colors. One color limits you a bunch, and 4-5 colors gives huge consistency problems when building on a budget.
Some cool commanders to consider, Maelstrom Wanderer, Marchesa, the Black Rose, and Tasigur, the Golden Fang all fulfill the requirements above, and are quite fun to play.
Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Karametra, God of Harvests
Tatyova, Benthic Druid
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
In terms of making the most of your budget, Karador or Karametra is my vote. Karador because you want recursion.
On phasing: