So Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain was spoiled. Artifacts are my favorite things in the whole game. Darksteel is my favorite set ever, and Mirrodin, Scars of Mirrodin, and Kaladesh are my favorite blocks ever. I'm obsessed a bit. But anyway, I've been wanting a UR artifacts-matter type Legend for a long time, especially since Saheeli Rai came out. Breya, Etherium Shaper was boring to me, and so were all the options for Partners. I like a commander that adds real tech to the deck. Daretti, Scrap Savant and Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient are two of my favorite Commanders ever. Now, personally, I think new Jhoira is also kinda of boring, because all she does is draw cards. But, I also think she seems pretty powerful drawing cards so easy, and she rewards you for playing planeswalkers and cards like Padeem, Consul of Innovation. So I'm kind of excited for her! What do you guys think?
I'm not going to lie, I'm sad she wasn't just draw on historic ETB and cost 1 more. They gave us an Izzet artifact commander, but she's not really exciting to build around. I think you basically just stick her at the head of an artifact deck and treat her like a somewhat fragile and expensive card draw source. I think cheap/free artifacts and ways to bounce them like umbilicus or something will be things that see use with her, but she's really not that high impact. Nin, the Pain Artist has been drawing a pile of cards for a long time by shooting things like Solemn Simulacrum and Stuffy Doll, and she's not that great either. Really I'm just disappointed they wanted this to be our god-sent Izzet artificer we've been clamoring for and it just isn't.
I tend to agree with these sentiments. I'm worried that the best way to build her is going to be Storm/Eggs.dec, which is going to get boring pretty quick. I was hoping they'd explore some design space around red's Scrap Mastery effects or something that would abuse all the artifact token makers we have now between red and blue. I guess for now I'll stick with Breya as she still has better support for those lines of play.
You guys: Give us an Izzet artifact general. Anything. Just say “artifact” somewhere on the card, and we’ll be happy and shut up.
WotC: K
You guys: Uh, Jhoira doesn’t do that much. I mean, draw, but...we wanted more.
This card (and her familiar) are the best spoilers of this set. A+ as a general and the 99.
I appreciate that she's very open-ended. Considering that the Izzet artificer commander has been requested for a long time, and she's the only one we have for now, it's nice to see that she can basically support any kind of artifact strategy. Eggs and Storm may be the most optimal, but drawing cards will never not be good.
However, I agree that this also makes her a bit boring. She's good if you already had an Izzet artifact deck idea in mind and were just waiting for a Commander that actually contributed, but not so good at inspiring new ideas. Personally, I was hoping for something more tricksy and unique along the lines of Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient.
Seems incredibly powerful to me to the point where I'm a bit surprised she got printed in this form. I've seen Sram go absolutely bonkers and he only draws off auras and equipment. Its going to be difficult to build her and not make a deck that just goes crazy ramping and drawing cards. I don't know, I tend to overreact to new cards but I could see her being banworthy.
"Do thing, draw card" is the most boring, strongest ability a commander can have IMO. Leads to very linear deck building.
Artifact deck filled with 0-costs and cost reducers is the most obvious use of her and it will be great. I'm more interested if someone can pull off a legendary-heavy deck.
I'm not going to lie, I'm sad she wasn't just draw on historic ETB and cost 1 more.
A bit disappointing, but this way, you can't counter it. On the flip side, legendary lands (and artifact lands) and tokens aren't helped; nor is cheating them into play. And it allows for legendary sorceries (which, of course, have virtually no downside in Commander).
My biggest concern is, her rules text could just be blue.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
So a potentially strong CA engine, not OP by any means, that enables ANY UR artifact shenanigans and also lets you draw off any legends and sagas that are good in the deck. Sounds pretty good.
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I think Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain has my brew-senses tingling the most of anything we've seen so far. A card that makes 0-CMC artifacts and mana rocks into cantrips in arguably the most Storm-y color combo is just begging to be broken in half. On the other hand, I don't know that it would be a fun deck to actually play, so I may just play her to take a trip on the Weatherlight straight to value town.
I do wish she triggered on ETB so I could use her at the helm of the Contraption deck I've been wanting to build, but she's definitely a strong effect that will be seeing play at tables for quite some time to come.
The thing is I'm looking at my my Nin, the Pain Artist deck, and really any red/blue deck tends to be built around a draw engine. So Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain is another commander who does this very well. But nothing new, and if I was making a deck, falls under a fairly linear strategy of artifact storm. You could try and build something with legendaries or perhaps sagas, but in the end, just not how one can abuse this card right.
You'd want to have a few filtering options so not to flood out too much, i.e. tons of lands in hand. Otherwise you should get to a stage where you are cycling through your deck with artifacts and draw.
I will make a deck, as I can picture how best to chain going off, but it's not filling a void I have deck making or inspiration.
I will make a deck, as I can picture how best to chain going off, but it's not filling a void I have deck making or inspiration.
And that's where I'm at. I'm just not excited to build her, she doesn't add anything new and interesting to Izzet artifacts, and I feel like there are better commanders for storm builds. Now, if she was an anticipate on historic cast, that would be pretty solid. Breya, Etherium Shaper just seems a lot better at being an artifact commander.
Perhaps. I just wish Breya had been more...interesting, I guess. It seems hard to make her fun and good without massive combos, where Daretti and Kurkesh just synergize very well, and then get you to infinite status eventually. I think that Jhoira will be, for me, just a casual deck. Very simple, but also reasonably powerful. I'll use her to play with newer players I think, who aren't as prepared for infinite combos or complex strategies.
I guess that's another point is that since she's simple, it's really easy to build a deck around her, so she'd be a good choice for newer players.
There's nothing to build around though, just a mediocre card draw stapled to a rather lackluster body. Nin, for example, can already do this as a cheaper body. It's a boring commander even for a brand new casual player. Breya at least has options, you don't have to build combo, you can definitely just use her as an interesting sac outlet with an upside.
See I think the opposite about Breya. She's fun because she enables you to do pretty much anything. I run a lifegain/alt-win deck just because Breya means I can run Kraken's Eye/Angel's Feather/Demon's Horn/Dragon's Claw. If I don't need them, Breya turns them into something I can use. Her abilities offer so much flexibility that you can run any jank around her and still compete with the table.
Agreed. Yeah you can jam any number of combos with her, but she's also arguably the best choice for a janky Revel in Riches treasure deck or thopter tribal.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Jhoira 2.0 isn't powerful - she certainly is. Just... a bit uninspired. At least she doesn't have the Ulrich problem - both uninspired and a terrible card :D.
Seems some players will complain about anything that isn't as broken as Breya or Narset. Jhoira is fine. People who want to break her can do stormy combo eggsy crap, other people can just have fun with a dedicated Izzet artifact general. Would she be even more cool if she had some sort of other effect stapled on? Yeah, maybe, but she should be very functional as is.
I like the new Jhoira. It's not a splashy ability, but that also means she's not going to be the target that every broken Artifact Commander (Sharuum, Breya) is.
Seems some players will complain about anything that isn't as broken as Breya or Narset. Jhoira is fine. People who want to break her can do stormy combo eggsy crap, other people can just have fun with a dedicated Izzet artifact general. Would she be even more cool if she had some sort of other effect stapled on? Yeah, maybe, but she should be very functional as is.
I think the problem people are having is that she's either broken or boring. Think of Arcum Dagsson; he's either insanely powerful or you intentionally build him as a joke. Compare that to Sydri, Galvanic Genius; she makes cool synergies such as animating vehicles, artifacts that ping for damage, etc.
If they had done something like giving her a loot ability on cast and a Karador ability for historic you could do cool stuff.
There's nothing to build around though, just a mediocre card draw stapled to a rather lackluster body. Nin, for example, can already do this as a cheaper body. It's a boring commander even for a brand new casual player. Breya at least has options, you don't have to build combo, you can definitely just use her as an interesting sac outlet with an upside.
Making every single permanent spell in your deck replace itself if you build around her is a significant ability that you probably shouldn't handwave. In normal Commander, you need to limit the number of inexpensive creatures you run because they simply don't have the strength-to-card cost ratio to be worthwhile, but Jhoira completely negates that - all artifacts and legends suddenly lose the opportunity cost associated with card advantage.
Nin doesn't really cost less since you need to spend at least 1UURR and 1 turn before you'll get anything out of her - sure the initial cost is pretty low, but once you actually use her you're either spending a lot of mana (and often a creature) every turn or not getting as much card draw as Jhoira would be giving for free. (Don't get me wrong - Nin's amazing, possibly even better than Jhoira, but comparing the two is apples to oranges)
Tbh, Breya does nothing for me. Her abilities are nicely flexible, but they're inherently card disadvantage without using mass token creators or whatnot. The fact that a lot of decks seem to use her either as a combo piece or primarily for her colors just doesn't appeal to me at all. Which is unfortunate because I love the art and would probably buy a second, non-foil copy of her if one was printed even if I don't know that I'd ever use it.
I'm not going to say that you need to love Jhoira, but I think that running her at the head of either Eggs Storm or Ravager Affinity is reasonable as she can significantly improve the number of cards you see on any given turn without costing any extra mana. If those sorts of archetypes aren't your jam or aren't competitive in your meta, fine, but they are things that can exist that gain a lot of value from her.
Perhaps. I just wish Breya had been more...interesting, I guess. It seems hard to make her fun and good without massive combos, where Daretti and Kurkesh just synergize very well, and then get you to infinite status eventually.
See I think the opposite about Breya. She's fun because she enables you to do pretty much anything. I run a lifegain/alt-win deck just because Breya means I can run Kraken's Eye/Angel's Feather/Demon's Horn/Dragon's Claw. If I don't need them, Breya turns them into something I can use. Her abilities offer so much flexibility that you can run any jank around her and still compete with the table.
You forgot (obvious one) Golem's Heart. But that's another thing: Four- or five-color decks are inherently modular.
Jhoira's biggest problem to me is that she could just be monoblue. Just something like
1R, sacrifice an artifact: CARDNAME deals 1 damage to target player
would've helped out a lot.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I was hoping for a janky build around me U/R artificer commander. I find her a little boring for the same reasons as many others (could have been just Blue) but I am going to build it anyways. I'm not going to play some cheerios storm deck or any thing like that. Oh no, I'm going to use her to keep my hand full of cards while I build an engine of inevitable victory out of artifacts that will replace themselves when I cast them. I've been wanting to build this deck for a long, long time and Jhoira v2 is just the gal to take command.
stuff
WotC: K
You guys: Uh, Jhoira doesn’t do that much. I mean, draw, but...we wanted more.
This card (and her familiar) are the best spoilers of this set. A+ as a general and the 99.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
However, I agree that this also makes her a bit boring. She's good if you already had an Izzet artifact deck idea in mind and were just waiting for a Commander that actually contributed, but not so good at inspiring new ideas. Personally, I was hoping for something more tricksy and unique along the lines of Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient.
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Artifact deck filled with 0-costs and cost reducers is the most obvious use of her and it will be great. I'm more interested if someone can pull off a legendary-heavy deck.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
A bit disappointing, but this way, you can't counter it. On the flip side, legendary lands (and artifact lands) and tokens aren't helped; nor is cheating them into play. And it allows for legendary sorceries (which, of course, have virtually no downside in Commander).
My biggest concern is, her rules text could just be blue.
On phasing:
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I do wish she triggered on ETB so I could use her at the helm of the Contraption deck I've been wanting to build, but she's definitely a strong effect that will be seeing play at tables for quite some time to come.
You'd want to have a few filtering options so not to flood out too much, i.e. tons of lands in hand. Otherwise you should get to a stage where you are cycling through your deck with artifacts and draw.
I will make a deck, as I can picture how best to chain going off, but it's not filling a void I have deck making or inspiration.
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And that's where I'm at. I'm just not excited to build her, she doesn't add anything new and interesting to Izzet artifacts, and I feel like there are better commanders for storm builds. Now, if she was an anticipate on historic cast, that would be pretty solid. Breya, Etherium Shaper just seems a lot better at being an artifact commander.
I guess that's another point is that since she's simple, it's really easy to build a deck around her, so she'd be a good choice for newer players.
Agreed. Yeah you can jam any number of combos with her, but she's also arguably the best choice for a janky Revel in Riches treasure deck or thopter tribal.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Jhoira 2.0 isn't powerful - she certainly is. Just... a bit uninspired. At least she doesn't have the Ulrich problem - both uninspired and a terrible card :D.
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I think the problem people are having is that she's either broken or boring. Think of Arcum Dagsson; he's either insanely powerful or you intentionally build him as a joke. Compare that to Sydri, Galvanic Genius; she makes cool synergies such as animating vehicles, artifacts that ping for damage, etc.
If they had done something like giving her a loot ability on cast and a Karador ability for historic you could do cool stuff.
Making every single permanent spell in your deck replace itself if you build around her is a significant ability that you probably shouldn't handwave. In normal Commander, you need to limit the number of inexpensive creatures you run because they simply don't have the strength-to-card cost ratio to be worthwhile, but Jhoira completely negates that - all artifacts and legends suddenly lose the opportunity cost associated with card advantage.
Nin doesn't really cost less since you need to spend at least 1UURR and 1 turn before you'll get anything out of her - sure the initial cost is pretty low, but once you actually use her you're either spending a lot of mana (and often a creature) every turn or not getting as much card draw as Jhoira would be giving for free. (Don't get me wrong - Nin's amazing, possibly even better than Jhoira, but comparing the two is apples to oranges)
Tbh, Breya does nothing for me. Her abilities are nicely flexible, but they're inherently card disadvantage without using mass token creators or whatnot. The fact that a lot of decks seem to use her either as a combo piece or primarily for her colors just doesn't appeal to me at all. Which is unfortunate because I love the art and would probably buy a second, non-foil copy of her if one was printed even if I don't know that I'd ever use it.
I'm not going to say that you need to love Jhoira, but I think that running her at the head of either Eggs Storm or Ravager Affinity is reasonable as she can significantly improve the number of cards you see on any given turn without costing any extra mana. If those sorts of archetypes aren't your jam or aren't competitive in your meta, fine, but they are things that can exist that gain a lot of value from her.
You forgot (obvious one) Golem's Heart. But that's another thing: Four- or five-color decks are inherently modular.
Jhoira's biggest problem to me is that she could just be monoblue. Just something like
1R, sacrifice an artifact: CARDNAME deals 1 damage to target player
would've helped out a lot.
On phasing:
Tl;Dr: I like her.
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