I know the sphinx is awesome, I have played her a lot in other blue decks and I kow her value, the thing is that she is the primary target for removal, stealing effects and even reanimator effects from my opponents.
Also I am building a 3vs1 kind of deck and I need to keep the mana curve low enought to build my stuff and hold an answer, so 6cmc is too high for my taste (my other 6cmc spells in the deck are Elspeth, sun's champion , merciless eviction and terminus).
Almost all my curve is 2, mostrly 3, a lot of 4 and a couple of 5cmc.
What do you think? is cutting her nerfing too much?
I preface this by saying that I have zero experience with C Sphinx. Against or with. It's out of my price range.
That said,
Probably not? Curse of Verbosity is by far the worst of those cards. Especially if you're preparing to be the archenemy. If expecting to be in a 3v1 playing in control colors you can't afford to be giving your opponents more resources. Sphinx is pricy but powerful.
Considering you're playing Sun Droplet, one of the worst cards ever printed, I'd cut that first. There are much better options than Sun Droplet to get more powerful life gain effects.
Considering you're playing Sun Droplet, one of the worst cards ever printed, I'd cut that first. There are much better options than Sun Droplet to get more powerful life gain effects.
I think you are underestimating sun droplet here. 2 mana is a pretty small investment for a card that provides a ton of life gain triggers. If you have well or oloro with some spare you can draw 4 cards each turn cycle which is honestly pretty nuts. Makes phyrexian arena look pretty sad in comparison.
Considering you're playing Sun Droplet, one of the worst cards ever printed, I'd cut that first. There are much better options than Sun Droplet to get more powerful life gain effects.
I think you are underestimating sun droplet here. 2 mana is a pretty small investment for a card that provides a ton of life gain triggers. If you have well or oloro with some spare you can draw 4 cards each turn cycle which is honestly pretty nuts. Makes phyrexian arena look pretty sad in comparison.
well....except for the part where it costs 3 total, has no setup cost, doesn't require your opponents to cooperate and hit you (or I guess use pain lands or w/e), and doesn't require any mana to draw.
Anyway sun droplet is a niche card but it's nowhere near the worst cards ever printed, especially in commander where 99% of vanilla and french vanilla dudes are basically unplayable.
Commander has some weird contradictions. Sometimes worse cards are better, because they don't draw removal. Sometimes having a weaker deck is better, because you don't draw attention. So there's rarely a simple answer of whether or not cutting or adding something is going to make your deck more likely to win.
From a pure power perspective, the curse is clearly the weakest card imo, especially if you're already consigned to 3v1 (which you should never consign yourself to that, probably the other people don't like playing against you and you should take the hint and play weaker decks or play with other people). It's hard to say much more than that without knowing a ton about the deck and the environment you're playing it in.
Considering you're playing Sun Droplet, one of the worst cards ever printed, I'd cut that first. There are much better options than Sun Droplet to get more powerful life gain effects.
Well, Sun droplet is awesome, every painland gives me 1 counter and combat damage also gives a lot, I can remove a counter EVERY upkeep including my opponents one, so, If I have in the table Crested sunmare, then I have 1 life and 1 5/5 token every single turn, if the sunmare is not removed I can have 4 5/5 in my next upkeep, not that bad.
If I have Well of lost dreams in the table, well is one card draw every single turn, same with Oloro in the table.
I have more interactions with the sun droplet in the deck, remember that I am building my deck for a 3v1, so I need a high value LOW curve, I can-t blame you for thinking sun droplet is bad, I have never EVER played it (and I own the card since mirrodin) but after playing it in Oloro, I can assure you, it is great in the right deck
[quote from="Wizmin »" url="/forums/the-game/commander-edh/790652-is-consecrated-sphinx-worth-cutting-in-my-deck?comment=3"]Considering you're playing Sun Droplet, one of the worst cards ever printed, I'd cut that first. There are much better options than Sun Droplet to get more powerful life gain effects.
From a pure power perspective, the curse is clearly the weakest card imo, especially if you're already consigned to 3v1 (which you should never consign yourself to that, probably the other people don't like playing against you and you should take the hint and play weaker decks or play with other people). It's hard to say much more than that without knowing a ton about the deck and the environment you're playing it in.
My playgroup is 'strange' I am building this deck because of their playstyle and 'treat awareness' , If they think you are on top in some pouint of the game they will attack you HUGE wich is normall to gets things leveled but normally they wont stop, they are like dogs, if they can have blood they will want all of it, so If you get picked up you will be just deleted.
They think a deck like Kaalia is oppressive and will go full attack from turn zero (she is my main deck), but they think Narset, enlightened master is less powerfull.
So far, with my build I am able to 3v1 and have a good time and even win some games, but I think the deck as is is still weak, my goal is to punish the 3v1 situation using a non high oppresive strategy, that is why I am not running full stax, or full combo (I have some 'combos' as alternate wincons but they are not the centerpiece of the deck)
I know this feeling I have a UW flash control deck and Consecrated Sphinx is almost the only non flash creature in it, other than my commander Dragonlord Ojutai and Monastery mentor, and it is certainly the highest mana cost one.
Every time I have to back to look at the list for a cut for a new card, I look at consecrated sphinx and think... "do I want to tap out for this"... and so far the answer has always been yes...
6 mana is a lot, but then I look at Connie Sphinx and realize I'd pay 7 for that, so 6 is a bargain.
If she survives just your turn, and eats removal during the next opponents main, you've just got a 3 for 1 (draw two during their draw step and they spend a kill spell). If she makes it to your second opponents turn before dying, you've cast an Opportunity that also got rid of a kill spell. Survive till opponent 3, you've drawn 6 cards for 6. This is all with your opponents only drawing their card per turn. Make it around the table, and you get a possible attack for 4 through the air before getting to ride the card draw carrousel again.
The only drawback here is that she is your only creature and thus if your opponents pack enough spot removal and really do just go for your throat right out of the gate then it has a high chance of not making it to your end step. If that is happening, then cut it for a non creature to blank your opponents spot removal. Otherwise, if you can land it for half a turn or better, leave it in. Basically only cut it if it will consistently die before you pass the turn.
I also agree with cutting the curse, replace it with Erebos. Spend the mana and draw the card, easy mana sink before your turn, also keeps opponents from gaining life and you can turn it on and swing for 5 when needed. Dodges non exile spot removal and most sweepers, so harder to deal with than sphinx. Also consider cutting Phyrexian Arena for Greed. Yea, its more life and mana, but you can draw a lot from it, and you should be gaining enough life that you won't care about pumping 5 or 6 black mana into it.
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you're playing oloro. you're already gaining life. do you need more life gain? life gain doesn't win you the game. but felidar sovereign you'll say, to which i'll say... you're already gaining life. sure, you can pump mana into its effect to draw/drain your opponents too assuming you actually played oloro... and now you've got a full grip and can't actually cast anything, plus made oloro a target. good job.
here's why i say put in con sphinx over droplet
one rotation around the table on average will net you at least 6 cards assuming it sticks. for your 6 mana investment. if it survives that mana is free going forward and you're drawing as long as it stays in play. it also punishes people who run things like brainstorm, ponder, sylvan library, etc. which in any competent meta is going to be... everyone. yes, it dies to removal, but thats also the benefit to it. it can bait removal and let you combo out with something else that they now don't have resources to deal with. generally if that thing hits play and isn't dealt with immediately you're so far ahead no one can contend with you even after the sphinx dies. it doesn't matter the build either, control, combo, hell even aggro. you just end up with dumb amounts of cards quickly.
oh. i just saw you're running curse of verbosity.
DROP THAT ***** ASAP
look here's the thing with it. you might draw cards. you might make your opponents gang up on someone. but this is the key bit: you're feeding your opponents tools to beat you. outside of you attacking that person, there is ZERO benefit to your master plan here. it has no synergy with your commander, and is a BOON to your opponents. keep you crappy sun droplet, get rid of this pile of garbage.
honestly, this question doesn't seem so much should i drop this for that, so much as it feels like 'defend my pet card(s)'
look here's the thing with it. you might draw cards. you might make your opponents gang up on someone. but this is the key bit: you're feeding your opponents tools to beat you. outside of you attacking that person, there is ZERO benefit to your master plan here. it has no synergy with your commander, and is a BOON to your opponents. keep you crappy sun droplet, get rid of this pile of garbage.
honestly, this question doesn't seem so much should i drop this for that, so much as it feels like 'defend my pet card(s)'
I have not tried curse yet, my objective with curse of verbosity is poiting people away from me because I am always attack 3v1 so, I was trying to deflect the attacks elsewhere. Maybe it is bad, I haven-t played it yet so I cannot argue in its favor or against it.
Trust me on this, Sun droplet is not my pet card, read above the interactions it has with other cards I run and see why I am running it, that does not mean I would not cut it for other things, so far.
My question was about dropping or not the CS because of his mana cost, I am glad to see that I am not the only one that sometimes thinks about it
look here's the thing with it. you might draw cards. you might make your opponents gang up on someone. but this is the key bit: you're feeding your opponents tools to beat you. outside of you attacking that person, there is ZERO benefit to your master plan here. it has no synergy with your commander, and is a BOON to your opponents. keep you crappy sun droplet, get rid of this pile of garbage.
honestly, this question doesn't seem so much should i drop this for that, so much as it feels like 'defend my pet card(s)'
I have not tried curse yet, my objective with curse of verbosity is poiting people away from me because I am always attack 3v1 so, I was trying to deflect the attacks elsewhere. Maybe it is bad, I haven-t played it yet so I cannot argue in its favor or against it.
Trust me on this, Sun droplet is not my pet card, read above the interactions it has with other cards I run and see why I am running it, that does not mean I would not cut it for other things, so far.
My question was about dropping or not the CS because of his mana cost, I am glad to see that I am not the only one that sometimes thinks about it
you're saying its not your pet card, but you have multiple people saying that con sphinx is the better inclusion here over sun droplet, and you go out of your way to defend it. its your pet card.
there may be things that interact with it, but no matter how you build your oloro deck the sphinx is going to push you further ahead faster. counterspells? well now you can protect it and get more. combo? now you can dig for more! sun droplet doesn't do that
as for the curse, take it from someone who has seen it in action. it won't do what you want it to do. if you really want to deflect attacks this way run no mercy run propaganda run solitary confinement there are so many better options that DON'T feed your opponent, sorry, opponents. thats the key bit. its not feeding just one person, its feeding all but one person. on top of that, there have been many, many, many instances where i don't care about the singular card draw from attacking a guy if you're the threat. a lot of times i see people trying to politics out of lethal/near lethal pushing the idea that i'll draw a card... and then i just smash them in the face anyway and someone else finishes the job
yeah, everyone CONSIDERS dropping sphinx, and then realizes in most situations its going to push you further ahead than is reasonable. regardless, you have other things that you should drop first. this isn't a debate between con sphinx and mana drain, its a debate between con sphinx... and crap
look here's the thing with it. you might draw cards. you might make your opponents gang up on someone. but this is the key bit: you're feeding your opponents tools to beat you. outside of you attacking that person, there is ZERO benefit to your master plan here. it has no synergy with your commander, and is a BOON to your opponents. keep you crappy sun droplet, get rid of this pile of garbage.
honestly, this question doesn't seem so much should i drop this for that, so much as it feels like 'defend my pet card(s)'
I have not tried curse yet, my objective with curse of verbosity is poiting people away from me because I am always attack 3v1 so, I was trying to deflect the attacks elsewhere. Maybe it is bad, I haven-t played it yet so I cannot argue in its favor or against it.
Trust me on this, Sun droplet is not my pet card, read above the interactions it has with other cards I run and see why I am running it, that does not mean I would not cut it for other things, so far.
My question was about dropping or not the CS because of his mana cost, I am glad to see that I am not the only one that sometimes thinks about it
you're saying its not your pet card, but you have multiple people saying that con sphinx is the better inclusion here over sun droplet, and you go out of your way to defend it. its your pet card.
there may be things that interact with it, but no matter how you build your oloro deck the sphinx is going to push you further ahead faster. counterspells? well now you can protect it and get more. combo? now you can dig for more! sun droplet doesn't do that
as for the curse, take it from someone who has seen it in action. it won't do what you want it to do. if you really want to deflect attacks this way run no mercy run propaganda run solitary confinement there are so many better options that DON'T feed your opponent, sorry, opponents. thats the key bit. its not feeding just one person, its feeding all but one person. on top of that, there have been many, many, many instances where i don't care about the singular card draw from attacking a guy if you're the threat. a lot of times i see people trying to politics out of lethal/near lethal pushing the idea that i'll draw a card... and then i just smash them in the face anyway and someone else finishes the job
yeah, everyone CONSIDERS dropping sphinx, and then realizes in most situations its going to push you further ahead than is reasonable. regardless, you have other things that you should drop first. this isn't a debate between con sphinx and mana drain, its a debate between con sphinx... and crap
Maybe you should try to read his posts again. He's got both in his deck already, and he's not comparing sphinx to droplet, he's considering whether to drop Sphinx on its own merits based on it being his highest mana card, his deck being almost creature less which makes Sphinx the only removal target, and the fact that his opponents 3v1 him meaning the sphinx will definitely eat a kill spell ASAP. The only question is whether it will consistently survive his turn, or whether his opponents pack enough removal that they will consistently deal with it before he passes the turn, rendering it a six mana waste that makes otherwise dead removal relevant. It's a pretty niche situation, and even here sphinx is good enough that it dying before doing anything has to be almost certain before it should be cut.
Sun droplet is already in the deck next to it. He's not cutting sphinx for it. He's running a deck that's heavy on lifegain triggers, and droplet gives you triggers every turn. That's a Tom of draw with Oloro and Well, and a ton of triggers for all the other synergies he has.
Honestly, telling someone who built a deck around lifegain synergy that gaining life doesn't win you the game is pretty noob, and shows a misunderstanding of the point of the adage. Gaining life just to have a higher life total doesn't win you the game is a bad move, but gaining life to use as a resource and to trigger abilities is effective, because it does more than just gain life. He's looking to make four 5/5 horses a turn while drawing 4 cards with it. Probably looking to exile a bunch of critters with Karlov too. Few cards will get you that many triggers a round. It possibly gaining him a significant amount of life over the course of a few turns to pad his total is just gravy.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I know the sphinx is awesome, I have played her a lot in other blue decks and I kow her value, the thing is that she is the primary target for removal, stealing effects and even reanimator effects from my opponents.
This is the primary reason I don't run Sphinx: it's an enormous detriment when there's a lot of Bribery and Reanimate effects running about. Cheap burst draw like Painful Truths might not be a bad idea since you don't need to tap out, nor do you need to wait multiple turns to get value out of it. It is a lot less innocuous than something like Phyrexian Arena while also not being removal-prone. For larger levels of draw, instants like Blue Sun's Zenith mean you don't need to tap out to draw a lot so you're free to hold open counters and removal, and unlike the others, USZ can be reused without relying on gy recursion so you can cast it earlier for some advantage and then use it later for game-winning draw power. For some of the most cards per mana in sorcery-speed draw, Recurring Insight can give you a huge amount although it is a lot slower speed than I prefer for my large draws.
Considering you're playing Sun Droplet, one of the worst cards ever printed, I'd cut that first. There are much better options than Sun Droplet to get more powerful life gain effects.
The Ornithopter Rule applies.
To explain, the Ornithopter Rule states "If a deck has an ornithopter, it has a damn good reason to be there." (Namely, affinity, but possibly other reasons.)
That said, I'm pretty sure a simple Soul's Attendant would play this role just as well.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
My playgroup is 'strange' I am building this deck because of their playstyle and 'treat awareness'
(emphasis added)
I have great treat awareness. I can sniff them out anywhere, especially if chocolate is involved.
On a more serious note, I'd cut the curse long before the Consecrated Sphinx. While the Sphinx has its problems, mostly in the form of it being a theft liability, it's still a great card. Just be smart when playing it, and play it only when you can protect it.
On a more serious note, I'd cut the curse long before the Consecrated Sphinx. While the Sphinx has its problems, mostly in the form of it being a theft liability, it's still a great card. Just be smart when playing it, and play it only when you can protect it.
So many people against Curse of verbosity needs to mean something, I haven-t tried it yet, perhaps is not worth it as many has daid so I will be cutting it, I also needed a slot for vedalken orrery so..
Thanks everyone for the time and effort you have taken to answer me.
One thing that should be noted: When talking about cutting or adding something with 6 cmc, you really should include the whole decklist. Commander still has a curve.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
One thing that should be noted: When talking about cutting or adding something with 6 cmc, you really should include the whole decklist. Commander still has a curve.
I haven't posted my decklist here because of the forum rules.
But my curve is pretty low 9 1drops 15 2 drops, 12 3drops, 12 4drops, 10 5drops, 5 6drops
I haven't posted my decklist here because of the forum rules.
You can always post a link to an off-site deck list, and tbh I doubt you'd get a warning even if you posted the deck here since
1) It's not in the original post
2) It's relevant to the conversation at hand
3) You were explicitly asked for it
Personally, I never run the Sphinx since I never enjoy seeing it on the other side of the board and I try to avoid playing cards like that.
I haven't posted my decklist here because of the forum rules.
You can always post a link to an off-site deck list, and tbh I doubt you'd get a warning even if you posted the deck here since
1) It's not in the original post
2) It's relevant to the conversation at hand
3) You were explicitly asked for it
Personally, I never run the Sphinx since I never enjoy seeing it on the other side of the board and I try to avoid playing cards like that.
I have very few creatures, Karlov of the Ghost Council sinergyes well with every life gain, and for 2cmc can be a huge threat but,... I just don't know if is really worth it, I haven't tested it yet, With a bit of luck I can exile at least one creture per upkeep if I have enought life gains triggers (like the hated sun droplet), the 5/5 horse is just too good, with 3 charges in the droplet I can have 4 5/5 undestructible horses in one turn, the griffing is to counter some bad things like magister sphinx and some ETB shenanigans, Sidri comboes with aetherflux but... also can turn any other artifact in a lifelink / deathtouch creature , so suddendly my mana rocks are removal too or I can turn other people artifacts in creatures so it gives me some political coins. Snapcaster mage is because.. it is snappy
I have some things I would like to put in the maindeck but I have no slots for them, like ivory tower and blue sun's zenit
One thing that should be noted: When talking about cutting or adding something with 6 cmc, you really should include the whole decklist. Commander still has a curve.
I haven't posted my decklist here because of the forum rules.
But my curve is pretty low 9 1drops 15 2 drops, 12 3drops, 12 4drops, 10 5drops, 5 6drops
If it's low like that, then yeah, CSphinx is a possible option. I also like all the mana rocks you included.
But I have to ask because, like, you could've put too many 6 drops in.
And my advice for "Should I cut CARD?" threads for the future, include a link to the decklist. No card exists in a vacuum, and curves should always be the top priority, IMO.
But I guess this is just my experience playing Stax more than anything. In Stax, many of the cards exist just to break the symmetry of the effects.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Also, if you're very worried about sphinx being stolen once on board, you can include some cards like High Market and/or Phyrexian Tower. They're not too hard to fit in, and will allow you to sacrifice your sphinx in response to someone trying to steal it.
I am trimming cards from a deck I am building, I am aiming at a creatureless Oloro, Ageless ascetic , control durdle.
So far, my Card draw is this:
Rhystic study, phyrexian arena, well of lost dreams (with sinergyes a lot with sun droplet too), necropotence, curse of verbosity, Consecrated sphinx and off course Oloro itself.
I know the sphinx is awesome, I have played her a lot in other blue decks and I kow her value, the thing is that she is the primary target for removal, stealing effects and even reanimator effects from my opponents.
Also I am building a 3vs1 kind of deck and I need to keep the mana curve low enought to build my stuff and hold an answer, so 6cmc is too high for my taste (my other 6cmc spells in the deck are Elspeth, sun's champion , merciless eviction and terminus).
Almost all my curve is 2, mostrly 3, a lot of 4 and a couple of 5cmc.
What do you think? is cutting her nerfing too much?
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
That said,
Probably not? Curse of Verbosity is by far the worst of those cards. Especially if you're preparing to be the archenemy. If expecting to be in a 3v1 playing in control colors you can't afford to be giving your opponents more resources. Sphinx is pricy but powerful.
I think you are underestimating sun droplet here. 2 mana is a pretty small investment for a card that provides a ton of life gain triggers. If you have well or oloro with some spare you can draw 4 cards each turn cycle which is honestly pretty nuts. Makes phyrexian arena look pretty sad in comparison.
Anyway sun droplet is a niche card but it's nowhere near the worst cards ever printed, especially in commander where 99% of vanilla and french vanilla dudes are basically unplayable.
Commander has some weird contradictions. Sometimes worse cards are better, because they don't draw removal. Sometimes having a weaker deck is better, because you don't draw attention. So there's rarely a simple answer of whether or not cutting or adding something is going to make your deck more likely to win.
From a pure power perspective, the curse is clearly the weakest card imo, especially if you're already consigned to 3v1 (which you should never consign yourself to that, probably the other people don't like playing against you and you should take the hint and play weaker decks or play with other people). It's hard to say much more than that without knowing a ton about the deck and the environment you're playing it in.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Well, Sun droplet is awesome, every painland gives me 1 counter and combat damage also gives a lot, I can remove a counter EVERY upkeep including my opponents one, so, If I have in the table Crested sunmare, then I have 1 life and 1 5/5 token every single turn, if the sunmare is not removed I can have 4 5/5 in my next upkeep, not that bad.
If I have Well of lost dreams in the table, well is one card draw every single turn, same with Oloro in the table.
I have more interactions with the sun droplet in the deck, remember that I am building my deck for a 3v1, so I need a high value LOW curve, I can-t blame you for thinking sun droplet is bad, I have never EVER played it (and I own the card since mirrodin) but after playing it in Oloro, I can assure you, it is great in the right deck
My playgroup is 'strange' I am building this deck because of their playstyle and 'treat awareness' , If they think you are on top in some pouint of the game they will attack you HUGE wich is normall to gets things leveled but normally they wont stop, they are like dogs, if they can have blood they will want all of it, so If you get picked up you will be just deleted.
They think a deck like Kaalia is oppressive and will go full attack from turn zero (she is my main deck), but they think Narset, enlightened master is less powerfull.
So far, with my build I am able to 3v1 and have a good time and even win some games, but I think the deck as is is still weak, my goal is to punish the 3v1 situation using a non high oppresive strategy, that is why I am not running full stax, or full combo (I have some 'combos' as alternate wincons but they are not the centerpiece of the deck)
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
Every time I have to back to look at the list for a cut for a new card, I look at consecrated sphinx and think... "do I want to tap out for this"... and so far the answer has always been yes...
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
If she survives just your turn, and eats removal during the next opponents main, you've just got a 3 for 1 (draw two during their draw step and they spend a kill spell). If she makes it to your second opponents turn before dying, you've cast an Opportunity that also got rid of a kill spell. Survive till opponent 3, you've drawn 6 cards for 6. This is all with your opponents only drawing their card per turn. Make it around the table, and you get a possible attack for 4 through the air before getting to ride the card draw carrousel again.
The only drawback here is that she is your only creature and thus if your opponents pack enough spot removal and really do just go for your throat right out of the gate then it has a high chance of not making it to your end step. If that is happening, then cut it for a non creature to blank your opponents spot removal. Otherwise, if you can land it for half a turn or better, leave it in. Basically only cut it if it will consistently die before you pass the turn.
I also agree with cutting the curse, replace it with Erebos. Spend the mana and draw the card, easy mana sink before your turn, also keeps opponents from gaining life and you can turn it on and swing for 5 when needed. Dodges non exile spot removal and most sweepers, so harder to deal with than sphinx. Also consider cutting Phyrexian Arena for Greed. Yea, its more life and mana, but you can draw a lot from it, and you should be gaining enough life that you won't care about pumping 5 or 6 black mana into it.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
you're playing oloro. you're already gaining life. do you need more life gain? life gain doesn't win you the game. but felidar sovereign you'll say, to which i'll say... you're already gaining life. sure, you can pump mana into its effect to draw/drain your opponents too assuming you actually played oloro... and now you've got a full grip and can't actually cast anything, plus made oloro a target. good job.
here's why i say put in con sphinx over droplet
one rotation around the table on average will net you at least 6 cards assuming it sticks. for your 6 mana investment. if it survives that mana is free going forward and you're drawing as long as it stays in play. it also punishes people who run things like brainstorm, ponder, sylvan library, etc. which in any competent meta is going to be... everyone. yes, it dies to removal, but thats also the benefit to it. it can bait removal and let you combo out with something else that they now don't have resources to deal with. generally if that thing hits play and isn't dealt with immediately you're so far ahead no one can contend with you even after the sphinx dies. it doesn't matter the build either, control, combo, hell even aggro. you just end up with dumb amounts of cards quickly.
oh. i just saw you're running curse of verbosity.
DROP THAT ***** ASAP
look here's the thing with it. you might draw cards. you might make your opponents gang up on someone. but this is the key bit: you're feeding your opponents tools to beat you. outside of you attacking that person, there is ZERO benefit to your master plan here. it has no synergy with your commander, and is a BOON to your opponents. keep you crappy sun droplet, get rid of this pile of garbage.
honestly, this question doesn't seem so much should i drop this for that, so much as it feels like 'defend my pet card(s)'
I have not tried curse yet, my objective with curse of verbosity is poiting people away from me because I am always attack 3v1 so, I was trying to deflect the attacks elsewhere. Maybe it is bad, I haven-t played it yet so I cannot argue in its favor or against it.
Trust me on this, Sun droplet is not my pet card, read above the interactions it has with other cards I run and see why I am running it, that does not mean I would not cut it for other things, so far.
My question was about dropping or not the CS because of his mana cost, I am glad to see that I am not the only one that sometimes thinks about it
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
you're saying its not your pet card, but you have multiple people saying that con sphinx is the better inclusion here over sun droplet, and you go out of your way to defend it. its your pet card.
there may be things that interact with it, but no matter how you build your oloro deck the sphinx is going to push you further ahead faster. counterspells? well now you can protect it and get more. combo? now you can dig for more! sun droplet doesn't do that
as for the curse, take it from someone who has seen it in action. it won't do what you want it to do. if you really want to deflect attacks this way run no mercy run propaganda run solitary confinement there are so many better options that DON'T feed your opponent, sorry, opponents. thats the key bit. its not feeding just one person, its feeding all but one person. on top of that, there have been many, many, many instances where i don't care about the singular card draw from attacking a guy if you're the threat. a lot of times i see people trying to politics out of lethal/near lethal pushing the idea that i'll draw a card... and then i just smash them in the face anyway and someone else finishes the job
yeah, everyone CONSIDERS dropping sphinx, and then realizes in most situations its going to push you further ahead than is reasonable. regardless, you have other things that you should drop first. this isn't a debate between con sphinx and mana drain, its a debate between con sphinx... and crap
Maybe you should try to read his posts again. He's got both in his deck already, and he's not comparing sphinx to droplet, he's considering whether to drop Sphinx on its own merits based on it being his highest mana card, his deck being almost creature less which makes Sphinx the only removal target, and the fact that his opponents 3v1 him meaning the sphinx will definitely eat a kill spell ASAP. The only question is whether it will consistently survive his turn, or whether his opponents pack enough removal that they will consistently deal with it before he passes the turn, rendering it a six mana waste that makes otherwise dead removal relevant. It's a pretty niche situation, and even here sphinx is good enough that it dying before doing anything has to be almost certain before it should be cut.
Sun droplet is already in the deck next to it. He's not cutting sphinx for it. He's running a deck that's heavy on lifegain triggers, and droplet gives you triggers every turn. That's a Tom of draw with Oloro and Well, and a ton of triggers for all the other synergies he has.
Honestly, telling someone who built a deck around lifegain synergy that gaining life doesn't win you the game is pretty noob, and shows a misunderstanding of the point of the adage. Gaining life just to have a higher life total doesn't win you the game is a bad move, but gaining life to use as a resource and to trigger abilities is effective, because it does more than just gain life. He's looking to make four 5/5 horses a turn while drawing 4 cards with it. Probably looking to exile a bunch of critters with Karlov too. Few cards will get you that many triggers a round. It possibly gaining him a significant amount of life over the course of a few turns to pad his total is just gravy.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
This is the primary reason I don't run Sphinx: it's an enormous detriment when there's a lot of Bribery and Reanimate effects running about. Cheap burst draw like Painful Truths might not be a bad idea since you don't need to tap out, nor do you need to wait multiple turns to get value out of it. It is a lot less innocuous than something like Phyrexian Arena while also not being removal-prone. For larger levels of draw, instants like Blue Sun's Zenith mean you don't need to tap out to draw a lot so you're free to hold open counters and removal, and unlike the others, USZ can be reused without relying on gy recursion so you can cast it earlier for some advantage and then use it later for game-winning draw power. For some of the most cards per mana in sorcery-speed draw, Recurring Insight can give you a huge amount although it is a lot slower speed than I prefer for my large draws.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
The Ornithopter Rule applies.
To explain, the Ornithopter Rule states "If a deck has an ornithopter, it has a damn good reason to be there." (Namely, affinity, but possibly other reasons.)
For Sun Droplet in Oloro, it's because Oloro, Drogskol Reaver, and Well of Lost Dreams all draw cards off it, Archangel of Thune gives you a Meadowboon each turn, etc. And you can just use painlands or Pestilence to put charge counters on it.
That said, I'm pretty sure a simple Soul's Attendant would play this role just as well.
On phasing:
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Nothing will replace Consecrated Sphinx, that card is bonkers. For draw I'd suggest Night's Whisper, Sign in Blood, Ancient Craving, Ambitions Cost, Fact or Fiction, Promise of Power and Recurring Insight. And I know this varies from meta to meta but I usually draw more from Recurring Insight than I do with Consecrated Sphinx
I have great treat awareness. I can sniff them out anywhere, especially if chocolate is involved.
On a more serious note, I'd cut the curse long before the Consecrated Sphinx. While the Sphinx has its problems, mostly in the form of it being a theft liability, it's still a great card. Just be smart when playing it, and play it only when you can protect it.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsSo many people against Curse of verbosity needs to mean something, I haven-t tried it yet, perhaps is not worth it as many has daid so I will be cutting it, I also needed a slot for vedalken orrery so..
Thanks everyone for the time and effort you have taken to answer me.
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
On phasing:
I haven't posted my decklist here because of the forum rules.
But my curve is pretty low 9 1drops 15 2 drops, 12 3drops, 12 4drops, 10 5drops, 5 6drops
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
You can always post a link to an off-site deck list, and tbh I doubt you'd get a warning even if you posted the deck here since
1) It's not in the original post
2) It's relevant to the conversation at hand
3) You were explicitly asked for it
Personally, I never run the Sphinx since I never enjoy seeing it on the other side of the board and I try to avoid playing cards like that.
In that case, this is my decklis https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/oloro-non-combo-durdle/
I have very few creatures, Karlov of the Ghost Council sinergyes well with every life gain, and for 2cmc can be a huge threat but,... I just don't know if is really worth it, I haven't tested it yet, With a bit of luck I can exile at least one creture per upkeep if I have enought life gains triggers (like the hated sun droplet), the 5/5 horse is just too good, with 3 charges in the droplet I can have 4 5/5 undestructible horses in one turn, the griffing is to counter some bad things like magister sphinx and some ETB shenanigans, Sidri comboes with aetherflux but... also can turn any other artifact in a lifelink / deathtouch creature , so suddendly my mana rocks are removal too or I can turn other people artifacts in creatures so it gives me some political coins. Snapcaster mage is because.. it is snappy
I have some things I would like to put in the maindeck but I have no slots for them, like ivory tower and blue sun's zenit
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
If it's low like that, then yeah, CSphinx is a possible option. I also like all the mana rocks you included.
But I have to ask because, like, you could've put too many 6 drops in.
And my advice for "Should I cut CARD?" threads for the future, include a link to the decklist. No card exists in a vacuum, and curves should always be the top priority, IMO.
But I guess this is just my experience playing Stax more than anything. In Stax, many of the cards exist just to break the symmetry of the effects.
On phasing:
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears