I actually cannot believe it has been mentioned yet, but from seeing a test of this deck, Treasonous Ogre is almost mandatory, especially if you can keep it alive through a wipe.
I actually cannot believe it has been mentioned yet, but from seeing a test of this deck, Treasonous Ogre is almost mandatory, especially if you can keep it alive through a wipe.
that is a good idea, get some extra mana for spells like Fireball or comet storm.
another thing worth mentioning, a bunch of rituals could go a way to suddenly put a game away out of a seemingly 'safe' situation.
it probably is also worth mentioning, especially with burn decks, it always feels like you would've won with just 1 more turn... so final fortune can be a useful thing.
i was gonna bring up djinn illuminatus, but its in the wrong colour combinations
Oh man, I really hope spiritualize combo doesn't work. I kind of instantly lost interest as soon as it came up.
I mean the deck is still going to be aggressively simple to build, but at least it could be fun to play.
It doesn't.
Spiritualize causes you to gain life, which triggers F&S. The source of F&S's damage ability is F&S. (In contrast, the lifegain is caused by giving the instant lifelink, and lifelink doesn't use the stack.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
You're misunderstanding why Spiritualize would or would not go infinite.
FS&SS's ability reads "Whenever a white instant or sorcery spell causes you to gain life, Firesong and Sunspeaker deals 3 damage to target creature or player."
Spiritulaize is a a white instant that reads "Until end of turn, whenever target creature deals damage, you gain that much life."
The source of the damage is FS&SS, which triggers Spiritualize. The source of the lifegain is Spiritualize (it is not granting lifelink,) which triggers FS&SS. All you need to get started is FS&SS dealing damage, which can be done through combat, a lifegain spell, or certain red spells that cause a creature to deal damage.
The only question is if Spiritualize's effect is valid for FS&SS's trigger. According to 603.7d, it looks like it is, but I'd like an official ruling from wizards first.
(In either case, I'd personally not run it just because a card that goes infinite with just your commander is extremely boring. At least with most infinite combos you need to spend some time assembling the pieces.)
another thing worth mentioning, a bunch of rituals could go a way to suddenly put a game away out of a seemingly 'safe' situation.
it probably is also worth mentioning, especially with burn decks, it always feels like you would've won with just 1 more turn... so final fortune can be a useful thing.
i was gonna bring up djinn illuminatus, but its in the wrong colour combinations
You will be in the right colors to Glorious End someone's turn off of Sunforger, then Angel's Grace on your next turn to live. Niche, but fun, and you probably want to forge some Suns anyhow since it's thematic, powerful, and awesome.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I like the look, but I would really rather have a non-foil available too. Oh well. Still going to build it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
Neheb, the Eternal is also an auto-include.
what to put in is very clear, i was thinking a gisela burn deck (there is a good one on this boards, i'm in a bit of a hurry now and can't link it) could be hacked apart for this commander. gisela probably wouldn't fit in it anymore, as with some specific cards such as pyrohemia, and some mana rocks could become fast mana, but aside from this i would use the same ratios.
edit: forgot braid of fire and a healthy number of red instants to empty your hand before a wheel. i always sought to make the card work in commander, this might be the deck.
It has lifelink, so does Firesong and Sunspeaker get triggered twice for separate life gain abilities, or maybe just once because the life gain is all coming from one card?
The Lifelink and the built-in lifegain are considered 2 different lifegaining effects, meaning you get 9 damage total.
Basically, if something is mentioned separately on the card, treat it as a separate instance of something. For example, say you have 2 hypothetical RW cards:
A) "This deals 2 damage to two target players"
B) "This deals 2 damage to target player, then deals 2 damage to another target player"
Card A would trigger FS&SS only once, while Card B triggers them twice, despite both cards having the same basic effect, because B has 2 damaging events instead of A's 1 damaging event.
I think you can make a control deck, but you'd need lots of ways to draw, as I feel the tempo and power is still not enough. Primal Amulet/Primal Wellspring and anything else that helps to reduce spells if you can get a card drawing engine going in Boros.
Expensive things, but still better than no draw at all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
what are some good R/W/C draw spells?
I mean i have wheels but there has to be more.
I would play Past in Flames, Mizzix's Mastery and Gamble. You can always use Gamble to get Past in Flames. There should be a large amount of instants and sorceries in the deck, so these will be allstars. Not "draw" but the sort of thing you need to get leverage from in general underpowered cards.
Some of the Chandras are actually perfect for a deck that packs a lot of instants and sorceries, plus they can provide card advantage over time. So if you're essentially clearing the board of creatures, with your spells, plus F&S 3 damage, then you have a real shot at being able to keep your planeswalkers unmolested. The ultimates should be really good in an F&S shell. Chandra Ablaze Chandra, the Firebrand Chandra, Torch of Defiance Chandra, Pyromaster
Fiery Confluence seems sweet, given how flexible it is as a red burn spell. Orim's Thunder Is similar to Fiery Confluence, but lets you hit enchantments. It's not red though, so you wouldn't gain any life. Aftershock just turns into 4 mana destroy target creature, artifact, or land. Flame Rift, Sizzle, Price of Progress, etc just do a ton of damage and gain you a lot of life.
These are just some ideas off the top of my head, but they seem good to me.
I know they are relatively low impact but every single one of them will be gaining you life anyway so it may not matter.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
My biggest concern with Firesong and Sunspeaker is how does it deal with False Cure? Jester's Cap maybe? Also turns out that Helm of the Host does combo with the Commander since the damage from it's last ability multiplies for each copy of the Commander on the battlefield. Book of Rass helps to circumvent life loss from the Commander with valuable card advantage when combined with mana sinks such as Braid of Fire or getting infinite red mana with Desperate Ritual imprinted on Isochron Scepter with Paradox Engine on the battlefield.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
that is a good idea, get some extra mana for spells like Fireball or comet storm.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
it probably is also worth mentioning, especially with burn decks, it always feels like you would've won with just 1 more turn... so final fortune can be a useful thing.
i was gonna bring up djinn illuminatus, but its in the wrong colour combinations
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
It doesn't.
Spiritualize causes you to gain life, which triggers F&S. The source of F&S's damage ability is F&S. (In contrast, the lifegain is caused by giving the instant lifelink, and lifelink doesn't use the stack.)
On phasing:
FS&SS's ability reads "Whenever a white instant or sorcery spell causes you to gain life, Firesong and Sunspeaker deals 3 damage to target creature or player."
Spiritulaize is a a white instant that reads "Until end of turn, whenever target creature deals damage, you gain that much life."
The source of the damage is FS&SS, which triggers Spiritualize. The source of the lifegain is Spiritualize (it is not granting lifelink,) which triggers FS&SS. All you need to get started is FS&SS dealing damage, which can be done through combat, a lifegain spell, or certain red spells that cause a creature to deal damage.
The only question is if Spiritualize's effect is valid for FS&SS's trigger. According to 603.7d, it looks like it is, but I'd like an official ruling from wizards first.
(In either case, I'd personally not run it just because a card that goes infinite with just your commander is extremely boring. At least with most infinite combos you need to spend some time assembling the pieces.)
You will be in the right colors to Glorious End someone's turn off of Sunforger, then Angel's Grace on your next turn to live. Niche, but fun, and you probably want to forge some Suns anyhow since it's thematic, powerful, and awesome.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I am getting a bx anyway (Splitting with my budy) but what makes you think it is BAB only?
EDIT: nevermidn found the article.
*ahem*
WTF?
great now i have to ope my friend is okay with me taking the F&S
the #1 card (i want) in the set and it is only a Promo.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I really like the look of the card. I like the art, and I also like the style of the bordering. Seems sweet.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
what to put in is very clear, i was thinking a gisela burn deck (there is a good one on this boards, i'm in a bit of a hurry now and can't link it) could be hacked apart for this commander. gisela probably wouldn't fit in it anymore, as with some specific cards such as pyrohemia, and some mana rocks could become fast mana, but aside from this i would use the same ratios.
edit: forgot braid of fire and a healthy number of red instants to empty your hand before a wheel. i always sought to make the card work in commander, this might be the deck.
It has lifelink, so does Firesong and Sunspeaker get triggered twice for separate life gain abilities, or maybe just once because the life gain is all coming from one card?
Do you get to deal 6 damage or 9 damage?
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
The Lifelink and the built-in lifegain are considered 2 different lifegaining effects, meaning you get 9 damage total.
Basically, if something is mentioned separately on the card, treat it as a separate instance of something. For example, say you have 2 hypothetical RW cards:
A) "This deals 2 damage to two target players"
B) "This deals 2 damage to target player, then deals 2 damage to another target player"
Card A would trigger FS&SS only once, while Card B triggers them twice, despite both cards having the same basic effect, because B has 2 damaging events instead of A's 1 damaging event.
White disruption which will also cause 3 damage:
Card advantage:
Win cons:
I think you can make a control deck, but you'd need lots of ways to draw, as I feel the tempo and power is still not enough. Primal Amulet/Primal Wellspring and anything else that helps to reduce spells if you can get a card drawing engine going in Boros.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I mean i have wheels but there has to be more.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Expensive things, but still better than no draw at all.
Land Tax
Scroll Rack
Bedlam Reveler - tech!
Charmbreaker Devils
Galvanoth - play Sensei's Divining Top, Scroll Rack as well
Goblin Dark-Dwellers
Isochron Scepter - renewable advantage.
Izzet Chemister
Mirrorpool
Pyromancer's Goggles - mana and card advantage.
Spellbinder
Some of the Chandras are actually perfect for a deck that packs a lot of instants and sorceries, plus they can provide card advantage over time. So if you're essentially clearing the board of creatures, with your spells, plus F&S 3 damage, then you have a real shot at being able to keep your planeswalkers unmolested. The ultimates should be really good in an F&S shell.
Chandra Ablaze
Chandra, the Firebrand
Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Chandra, Pyromaster
I like foxowar mention of Well of Lost Dreams
Brain in a Jar - cost reduction over time
Young Pyromancer - blockers
Blaze Commando
Monastery Mentor
[edit]
Jaya Ballard - has everything you want
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I'm super happy with the result actually. Really looking forward to playing it!
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Throw it on a lighting Helix ad it may be a game ender right there.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Orim's Thunder Is similar to Fiery Confluence, but lets you hit enchantments. It's not red though, so you wouldn't gain any life.
Aftershock just turns into 4 mana destroy target creature, artifact, or land.
Flame Rift, Sizzle, Price of Progress, etc just do a ton of damage and gain you a lot of life.
These are just some ideas off the top of my head, but they seem good to me.
Edit: Righteous Confluence is also sweet.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Beacon of Destruction
Beacon of Immortality
Red Sun's Zenith
Pulse of the Forge
Pulse of the Fields
I know they are relatively low impact but every single one of them will be gaining you life anyway so it may not matter.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
My biggest concern with Firesong and Sunspeaker is how does it deal with False Cure? Jester's Cap maybe? Also turns out that Helm of the Host does combo with the Commander since the damage from it's last ability multiplies for each copy of the Commander on the battlefield. Book of Rass helps to circumvent life loss from the Commander with valuable card advantage when combined with mana sinks such as Braid of Fire or getting infinite red mana with Desperate Ritual imprinted on Isochron Scepter with Paradox Engine on the battlefield.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta