If WotC made commanders that break color identity rules for a type or subtype. Say, something like this...
Voodoo Dude2BB
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard Mastery — If ~ is your commander, you may include curse cards of any color identity in your deck. You may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast curse spells.
would that be a good thing? Or maybe specific subcategories of a card type, like...
Leader of the Meek1WW
Legendary Creature - Human Coward Mastery — If ~ is your commander, you may include creature cards with power 2 or less of any color identity in your deck. You may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast creature spells with power 2 or less.
Everyone knows this is what Kentaro, the Smiling Cat wants to do.
Should Wizards do this? Discuss...
The problem at the moment is that when making 4 or 5 color good stuff decks, the commanders are an after thought just to get your color pie. Thrasios, Triton Hero + Tymna the Weaver or maybe Ramos, Dragon Engine are chosen not really on their ability to hold a deck together, but merely to get your colors, plus they are very good. So anything that brings originality I think is a good plan.
I think that would be rather fun and as long as it's balanced like your Voodoo Dude the sure. But your Leader of the Meek is broken as, so as long as it wouldn't be overpowered.
I don't see any problem with designs breaking the color identity rule from a philosophical perspective. I think the bigger question is, "Why would Wizards do that?" Like, it's easy enough just to "break" the color identity rule by printing more colored symbols on a card. From a design perspective, breaking the color identity rule by doing what Voodoo Dude and Leader of the Meek does is just awkward. They mandate including some kind of text like "You may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast curse spells." Without that kind of text, players wouldn't be able to cast their off-colored spells realistically since players still wouldn't be able to include lands of other colors. I think there might be some interesting design space to play around with here, but it seems very, very shallow to me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
I'm with Azurhawk, there are cards breaking every other rule, I tell new players 'these are the basic rules....but you will eventually see a card that breaks every one of them, always do what the card says'. I think Wizards should look into it just for the sake of removing an exception to the rule of 'there are exceptions to rules'.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
Color identity is a defining aspect of the format and I don't think it should played around with. From the examples these cards are having a narrow 5c Chromatic Lantern as your commander.
Well, for the record those two are just an example of how the ability might be worded. Presumably they would also both do something else related to their 'mastery' ("Whenever you cast a curse spell, do thing") and have actual power and toughness and other stuff.
Leader of the Meek's "limitation" is laughable, really. A plethora of strong utility is burried in the pool of power 2 and less. Voodoo Dude on the other hand doesn't look like a commander that would be able to carry its own weight.
I'm not a big fan of breaking color identity - at all. Instead i'm a huge fan of color flexible commanders though.
Reaper King and Ramos, Dragon Engine are certainly good examples of how color flexible commanders up to 5C are possible. It certainly requires a thoroughly chosen commander tech, otherwise it gets broken far too easily.
In fact, double hybrid ones would open up for more non-partner 4C commanders. e.g. a legendary creature with X(W/U)(R/G) (or two partners with hybrid mana costs each) would open up for 9 different colored builds... (G/W) (R/W) (U/R) (G/U) WRG URG WUR WUG WUGR
It would be insanely hard to find fitting tech for all 9, but you get the idea.
Leader of the Meek's "limitation" is laughable, really. A plethora of strong utility is burried in the pool of power 2 and less. Voodoo Dude on the other hand doesn't look like a commander that would be able to carry its own weight.
I'm not a big fan of breaking color identity - at all. Instead i'm a huge fan of color flexible commanders though.
Reaper King and Ramos, Dragon Engine are certainly good examples of how color flexible commanders up to 5C are possible. It certainly requires a thoroughly chosen commander tech, otherwise it gets broken far too easily.
In fact, double hybrid ones would open up for more non-partner 4C commanders. e.g. a legendary creature with X(W/U)(R/G) (or two partners with hybrid mana costs each) would open up for 9 different colored builds... (G/W) (R/W) (U/R) (G/U) WRG URG WUR WUG WUGR
It would be insanely hard to find fitting tech for all 9, but you get the idea.
As for the rule that "all rules have exceptions", shouldn't that rule also have...exceptions?
Just think about these cards:
Protozoan Infection GG
Instant
Target creature gets -4/-4 until EOT.
I mean, *****, we'd have enough color identity problems giving hybrids to both colors as Maro wants. (I'm not talking twobrids or Phyrexian mana, though I don't think a better Grasp of Darkness for 1 and some life is a good idea in nonblack decks.) Privileged Position gives you and your noncreature permanents hexproof (a white ability) and gives your creatures hexproof (a green ability). Giant Solifuge, green sometimes gets haste, but red doesn't get shroud. Augury Adept could actually be in one color; unfortunately the color is neither white nor blue, but green. (Come to think of it, rewarding you for high mana costs feels more green anyway.) Spiteful Visions makes sense as monoblack, but not as monored.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Like "WUBRG: Look at the top card of your library"
Basically a useless, overcosted ability, but now you have access to all colours.
Your ideas are interesting in that they would only allow you to play certain kinds of cards outside of the colour identity - I just think all the extra text and rules baggage are not worth it.
I think people are missing the point. Let's take Voodoo Dude for example. Sure you can run a 5 color general, but the mana base cost hundreds to thousands of dollars depending on how good/consistent you want to cast your spells.
If Wizards can provide a way to make the slightly more janky themes more cost affordable, then I see that as a very positive thing.
Honestly if this thread was about "Should you be able to play more than one Commander?" several years ago you'd get the same responses about, "No! Having one commander is a defining aspect of commander...". But Wizards broke the rule, and of course it made the game more versatile and fun.
It is, quite frankly, completely unnecessary not add the rule. You can simply print the spend mana of any color effect and slap a 5 color activated ability on the dude and you get the same results without messing with the rule. This also has the effect of making the commander more flexible, as you can make it as many colors as you want rather than mono color with a weird exception. Tazri + Kintaro would be how you make these cards, its already supported and doesn't require a gimmick ability.
That said, I would like to see a commander year dedicated to Tazri style 5 color commanders. Voodoo dude I think would be very popular, but give him a 5 color activated ability to sac a creature and tutor a curse, then make his deck mono black except for off color curses and a few cheap dual lands. Then make one deck lean heavy into the 5 color theme like tazri allies does, with cards from all colors, one that is mostly 3 color but has a few key cards from the other 2 (I'm thinking Angels for this with Maelstrom Arcangel and a handful of green and blue Angels), and one that's mostly two color with a smattering of the other 3 colors. That lets you do the 5 color commander deck cycle without having them be too samey and lets you check off a bunch of specific niche commanders while your at it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I think people are missing the point. Let's take Voodoo Dude for example. Sure you can run a 5 color general, but the mana base cost hundreds to thousands of dollars depending on how good/consistent you want to cast your spells.
This is pretty much my position. Running a 5C mana base is ostensibly disadvantageous, even if it's actually just a higher budgetary requirement in practice (especially when some people start complaining if you run Blood Moon, Back to Basics, or Ruination).
Honestly if this thread was about "Should you be able to play more than one Commander?" several years ago you'd get the same responses about, "No! Having one commander is a defining aspect of commander...". But Wizards broke the rule, and of course it made the game more versatile and fun.
To be fair, partners only work because they're restricted to other partners. I do agree though that circumventing the color identity restriction would be just as simple (in fact, moreso, due to factors like commander tax and commander damage for partner) as what partner did with the restriction to having only one commander.
Now this just confuses me. Yes, there are tons of utility creatures with power 2 or less. But it is not the same as literally playing all 5 colors. You are left out of good sorceries, instants, and so on.
This tradeoff seems more or less on-par with the supposed sacrifice of playing five-color: you get to play good and/or fun 'white matters' cards, like Endless Horizons, Strata Scythe, and the like but loose out on things like Boros Charm or Mirari's Wake. This seems like an even exchange in the casual sense, and it's hard to argue that this doesn't start to drastically favor five-color as you increase the budget of your manabase. Why, then, is it "busted" or "laughable"?
As far as just slapping on a multi-color activated ability or using hybrid mana...
This is also something I wish WotC did more of, but at the same time it's difficult to properly design a five-color activated ability. Cards like Dragonsoul Knight or Prism Array cheat a bit by tapping into the lore of their set ("multicolor matters" and "colors-versus-colorless"). I suppose you could do something similar and just theme the commanders as being from those respective planes, but that limits design space, and it really doesn't invalidate the alternative of a 'mastery' mechanic (or whatever it should happen to be called) - it just fills a similar design space, no different from Kicker vs. Escalate.
Now this just confuses me. Yes, there are tons of utility creatures with power 2 or less. But it is not the same as literally playing all 5 colors. You are left out of good sorceries, instants, and so on.
I'm with you on that one. What's so great about leader of the meek? It's almost strictly worse than just having a 5-color commander that actually does something, and also provides the ability to cast other spells from those colors. I guess the mana base is cheaper and lets you use more doublers, but that seems way less powerful than having access to all the busted non-white spells.
Personally I'll say what I've said on that other topic: as long the design is compelling go nuts. Considering it's no different than just sticking some ability with colored symbols on it that does nothing, I have a hard time seeing it as being overpowered.
Yes, but first, there are ways to circumvent the power restriction (creatures that ETB with +1/+1 counters or bring tokens with them). Secondly, Mystic Snake, Spike Weaver, Draining Whelk, Goblin Sharpshooter, Goblin Welder, mana dorks in general, Bob...This could easily get out of control.
That's the other reason WOTC is conservative with design space: You have to make sure you aren't turning your "casual" formats into Legacy 2.0.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Yes, but first, there are ways to circumvent the power restriction (creatures that ETB with +1/+1 counters or bring tokens with them). Secondly, Mystic Snake, Spike Weaver, Draining Whelk, Goblin Sharpshooter, Goblin Welder, mana dorks in general, Bob...This could easily get out of control.
That's the other reason WOTC is conservative with design space: You have to make sure you aren't turning your "casual" formats into Legacy 2.0.
ok so....how is that different from just playing a 5 color deck though?
I mean I'm not saying it's trash - atogatog is probably top 50 (or at least 100) commanders despite being garbage just because he's 5C. But it doesn't seem overpowered by any stretch.
Commander is already legacy 2.0 except for people not WANTING to play it that way. That's what stops it from always being high-powered, not color identity.
I also wouldn't say they're very conservative. Inalla was a very risky (and imo stupid) design. They almost always push the envelope pretty far with their precon designs.
Yes, but first, there are ways to circumvent the power restriction (creatures that ETB with +1/+1 counters or bring tokens with them). Secondly, Mystic Snake, Spike Weaver, Draining Whelk, Goblin Sharpshooter, Goblin Welder, mana dorks in general, Bob...This could easily get out of control.
That's the other reason WOTC is conservative with design space: You have to make sure you aren't turning your "casual" formats into Legacy 2.0.
I'm... still confused. I never said the ability was fair because it limits the power your creatures can have, the 'power 2 or less' aspect is just thematic, I'm saying you're losing out on important non-creature cards that you could play in five-color. Pernicious Deed, Crackling Doom, Maelstrom Pulse, Wargate, and so on.
My actual argument was that a tradeoff of a simpler manabase and a few monowhite-matters cards seems fair or even disadvantageous, balance-wise, compared to the dramatically larger pool of cards you can work with by just playing a five-color commander.
I wouldnt like it if they did. Its one of the founding parts of EDH and breeds creativity. I also wonder as to why you would like to? Why not just play a 5c commander and jam whichever cards you want?
The question I think you want to ask is "Should Wizards print some smaller/different 5c commanders" which I would be far more on board with especially if they were executed like the FRF Kahns with coloured abilities. I think there is a good amount of design space to build in so that it, or they, could be pretty unique.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern: RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
Don't think of these examples as mono-color commanders with too much freedom - think of it was a 5C commander with special restrictions. Rather than having a vertical slice of the cards available (all cards of one color) you get a horizontal slice of the cards available (all cards of X type across all colors). Idk I think it could be interesting. It does run the risk of pigeonholing a commander, though, since it's almost forcing you to run X type of card, which often means pushing heavily towards a certain type of strategy. But maybe that's no different from something like mizzix of the izmagnus or karador, ghost chieftain.
Actually Leader of the Meek I think is fine, so will retract my statement that it was broken. I was thinking that it was a command zone thing, but if you still need it in play to get those creatures into play when casting, then it's weak to your commander being removed.
But it would be cool to play an all Plains deck and have access to some powerful creatures. I think it would price a few more people into commander.
"you may pay spend Mana as though it was any color mana" is how these are not the same as playing 5c for those asking. You can run nothing but plains and be able to cast any spell you want without having to manage your resources. Like I said, this is basically tapping a Chromatic Lantern onto your general, except better since now Sol Ring gives colored mana as well.
good 5C manabases pretty much allow you to cast whatever you want anyway though. I mean sure, it's hard to cast patron wizard into dawn elemental without that sort of help, but considering you don't get to play many creatures or any noncreatures outside your CI, plus you don't get a real commander, it still sounds worse than atogatog in terms of strict power level.
One person in my playgroup has an Atogatog deck. He's never played it when I've been around, but he's showed it to me. Hilarious stuff. I guess the strategy is to look harmless and make people feel sorry for you until you can sac everything to atogatog, or to win with a Barren Glory/ various atogs combo.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Special thanks to Bella for my sig
"Cut it down, bury it in the snow, put it to the torch. The rose will still bloom again."
One person in my playgroup has an Atogatog deck. He's never played it when I've been around, but he's showed it to me. Hilarious stuff. I guess the strategy is to look harmless and make people feel sorry for you until you can sac everything to atogatog, or to win with a Barren Glory/ various atogs combo.
I mean, I'm talking about atogatog as a front for an otherwise powerful 5C deck (probably with no other atogs in it), which is essentially what leader of the meek would be doing if he were a deck.
For the record, the assumption was that the 'mastery' ability would work entirely from the command zone and that these would also probably do something else in addition to the mastery thing (just like Inalla has another ability, even if it's not the actually important one, and Arahbo has two synergistic abilities).
So more like...
Voodoo Dude2BB
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Mastery — If ~ is your commander, you may include curse cards of any color identity in your deck and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast curse spells.
Whenever a curse you control becomes attached to an opponent, that player discards two cards.
2/2
Leader of the Meek1WW
Legendary Creature - Human Coward
Mastery — If ~ is your commander, you may include creature cards with power 2 or less of any color identity in your deck and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast creature spells with power 2 or less.
Whenever a creature with power 2 or less enters the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on Leader of the Meek.
1/2
Also for the record, I'm not asking about these two specific cards. Those are just examples. The white commander could just as easily be limited to auras, they could just as easily not be monocolor, and so on.
Having mastery work from.the command zone and just let you cast a specific subset of cards for any mana can work, even if its a bit narrow. I just don't see the benefit of changing the color identity rules when you could just add a Tazri style 5 color ability to achieve the same effect. It's not like they'd have to design a bunch, they'd only release this in a commander product and then only as the face card of each deck, so 4 or 5 tops. It doesn't have to be flavorfully five color, as there really isn't any such thing, it can just be something the cards printed color or colors can do. Maybe Voodoo Dude can spend a rainbow to tutor for a curse, maybe a Mardu Samurai guy can spend a rainbow to give all Samurai double strike. Splashy, something that rewards you for running all five colors, but really a bonus that the deck doesn't die without. You get more functionality, and actually including some of the off color lands lets you customize the deck more and actually gives wizards something to work with when designing this as a product. They rarely make a deck for the commander line that only has one method of play, like even with the tribal decks you had one that could be cats, or equipment, and one that could be wizards, or spells. Voodoo Dude with a 5 color activation could be tribal curses, but the second legend could be a 5 color enchantress commander. The coward that cares about 2 power or less could have the second legendary be a 5 color dude that cares about how many creatures you control in some way (since the first one already wants a lot of smaller creatures there's synergy, but the second guy would encourage you to branch out into tokens). It just seems a lot easier to design decks for a commander product release this way, which is the only way such cards would see print. I don't think that you should make drastic changes to the rules unless there is a big payoff that cannot otherwise be attained. While I'm not sure how big the payoff is for these kind of cards, it can easily be attained without changing the rules through off color activations, and I'd argue that doing so actually makes them better, both as cards and as a potential product.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Honestly, I think this isn't a good idea. We already have some commanders that 'break' color identity, and they are fine (Glissa, the Traitor, Wort, the Raidmother etc). We don't need a mechanic that so blatantly forces a change like this that only works in commander. Honestly, I think they should just print more legendary creatures with interesting abilities. More commanders that make obscure cards that aren't played in any other decks into allstars.
I'm honestly getting tired of looking at decks that look like EDHREC's most popular cards all slammed into one deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Voodoo Dude 2BB
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Mastery — If ~ is your commander, you may include curse cards of any color identity in your deck. You may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast curse spells.
would that be a good thing? Or maybe specific subcategories of a card type, like...
Leader of the Meek 1WW
Legendary Creature - Human Coward
Mastery — If ~ is your commander, you may include creature cards with power 2 or less of any color identity in your deck. You may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast creature spells with power 2 or less.
Everyone knows this is what Kentaro, the Smiling Cat wants to do.
Should Wizards do this? Discuss...
- Rabid Wombat
I think that would be rather fun and as long as it's balanced like your Voodoo Dude the sure. But your Leader of the Meek is broken as, so as long as it wouldn't be overpowered.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
- Rabid Wombat
Voodoo Dude on the other hand doesn't look like a commander that would be able to carry its own weight.
I'm not a big fan of breaking color identity - at all. Instead i'm a huge fan of color flexible commanders though.
The Fate Reforged-cycle (Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, Daghatar the Adamant, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, Tasigur, the Golden Fang & Yasova Dragonclaw) aside from Daghatar the Adamant are all great and allow for 3 different color combinations each.
The hybrid mana approach of the Shadowmoor legends (Oona, Queen of the Fae, Reaper King, Rhys the Redeemed, Rosheen Meanderer, Sapling of Colfenor, Sygg, River Cutthroat & Wort, the Raidmother) was also interesting, even though they only opened up to mono to dual-color builds.
Reaper King and Ramos, Dragon Engine are certainly good examples of how color flexible commanders up to 5C are possible. It certainly requires a thoroughly chosen commander tech, otherwise it gets broken far too easily.
While not legendary, i found it pretty interesting when they toyed with CMC in Alara Reborn with Arsenal Thresher, Bant Sureblade, Esper Stormblade, Giant Ambush Beetle, Grixis Grimblade, Jund Hackblade, Marisi's Twinclaws, Messenger Falcons, Naya Hushblade & Sewn-Eye Drake.
Similarly colored legendary creatures would be cool. As in FRF you'd be able to combine two or three colors as you wish.
In fact, double hybrid ones would open up for more non-partner 4C commanders. e.g. a legendary creature with X(W/U)(R/G) (or two partners with hybrid mana costs each) would open up for 9 different colored builds...
(G/W)
(R/W)
(U/R)
(G/U)
WRG
URG
WUR
WUG
WUGR
It would be insanely hard to find fitting tech for all 9, but you get the idea.
Voodoo Dude on the other hand doesn't look like a commander that would be able to carry its own weight.
I'm not a big fan of breaking color identity - at all. Instead i'm a huge fan of color flexible commanders though.
The Fate Reforged-cycle (Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, Daghatar the Adamant, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, Tasigur, the Golden Fang & Yasova Dragonclaw) aside from Daghatar the Adamant are all great and allow for 3 different color combinations each.
The hybrid mana approach of the Shadowmoor legends (Oona, Queen of the Fae, Reaper King, Rhys the Redeemed, Rosheen Meanderer, Sapling of Colfenor, Sygg, River Cutthroat & Wort, the Raidmother) was also interesting, even though they only opened up to mono to dual-color builds.
Reaper King and Ramos, Dragon Engine are certainly good examples of how color flexible commanders up to 5C are possible. It certainly requires a thoroughly chosen commander tech, otherwise it gets broken far too easily.
While not legendary, i found it pretty interesting when they toyed with CMC in Alara Reborn with Arsenal Thresher, Bant Sureblade, Esper Stormblade, Giant Ambush Beetle, Grixis Grimblade, Jund Hackblade, Marisi's Twinclaws, Messenger Falcons, Naya Hushblade & Sewn-Eye Drake.
Similarly colored legendary creatures would be cool. As in FRF you'd be able to combine two or three colors as you wish.
In fact, double hybrid ones would open up for more non-partner 4C commanders. e.g. a legendary creature with X(W/U)(R/G) (or two partners with hybrid mana costs each) would open up for 9 different colored builds...
(G/W)
(R/W)
(U/R)
(G/U)
WRG
URG
WUR
WUG
WUGR
It would be insanely hard to find fitting tech for all 9, but you get the idea.
As for the rule that "all rules have exceptions", shouldn't that rule also have...exceptions?
Just think about these cards:
Protozoan Infection GG
Instant
Target creature gets -4/-4 until EOT.
I mean, *****, we'd have enough color identity problems giving hybrids to both colors as Maro wants. (I'm not talking twobrids or Phyrexian mana, though I don't think a better Grasp of Darkness for 1 and some life is a good idea in nonblack decks.) Privileged Position gives you and your noncreature permanents hexproof (a white ability) and gives your creatures hexproof (a green ability). Giant Solifuge, green sometimes gets haste, but red doesn't get shroud. Augury Adept could actually be in one color; unfortunately the color is neither white nor blue, but green. (Come to think of it, rewarding you for high mana costs feels more green anyway.) Spiteful Visions makes sense as monoblack, but not as monored.)
On phasing:
Like "WUBRG: Look at the top card of your library"
Basically a useless, overcosted ability, but now you have access to all colours.
Your ideas are interesting in that they would only allow you to play certain kinds of cards outside of the colour identity - I just think all the extra text and rules baggage are not worth it.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
If Wizards can provide a way to make the slightly more janky themes more cost affordable, then I see that as a very positive thing.
Honestly if this thread was about "Should you be able to play more than one Commander?" several years ago you'd get the same responses about, "No! Having one commander is a defining aspect of commander...". But Wizards broke the rule, and of course it made the game more versatile and fun.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
That said, I would like to see a commander year dedicated to Tazri style 5 color commanders. Voodoo dude I think would be very popular, but give him a 5 color activated ability to sac a creature and tutor a curse, then make his deck mono black except for off color curses and a few cheap dual lands. Then make one deck lean heavy into the 5 color theme like tazri allies does, with cards from all colors, one that is mostly 3 color but has a few key cards from the other 2 (I'm thinking Angels for this with Maelstrom Arcangel and a handful of green and blue Angels), and one that's mostly two color with a smattering of the other 3 colors. That lets you do the 5 color commander deck cycle without having them be too samey and lets you check off a bunch of specific niche commanders while your at it.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
To be fair, partners only work because they're restricted to other partners. I do agree though that circumventing the color identity restriction would be just as simple (in fact, moreso, due to factors like commander tax and commander damage for partner) as what partner did with the restriction to having only one commander.
Now this just confuses me. Yes, there are tons of utility creatures with power 2 or less. But it is not the same as literally playing all 5 colors. You are left out of good sorceries, instants, and so on.
This tradeoff seems more or less on-par with the supposed sacrifice of playing five-color: you get to play good and/or fun 'white matters' cards, like Endless Horizons, Strata Scythe, and the like but loose out on things like Boros Charm or Mirari's Wake. This seems like an even exchange in the casual sense, and it's hard to argue that this doesn't start to drastically favor five-color as you increase the budget of your manabase. Why, then, is it "busted" or "laughable"?
As far as just slapping on a multi-color activated ability or using hybrid mana...
This is also something I wish WotC did more of, but at the same time it's difficult to properly design a five-color activated ability. Cards like Dragonsoul Knight or Prism Array cheat a bit by tapping into the lore of their set ("multicolor matters" and "colors-versus-colorless"). I suppose you could do something similar and just theme the commanders as being from those respective planes, but that limits design space, and it really doesn't invalidate the alternative of a 'mastery' mechanic (or whatever it should happen to be called) - it just fills a similar design space, no different from Kicker vs. Escalate.
- Rabid Wombat
Personally I'll say what I've said on that other topic: as long the design is compelling go nuts. Considering it's no different than just sticking some ability with colored symbols on it that does nothing, I have a hard time seeing it as being overpowered.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
That's the other reason WOTC is conservative with design space: You have to make sure you aren't turning your "casual" formats into Legacy 2.0.
On phasing:
I mean I'm not saying it's trash - atogatog is probably top 50 (or at least 100) commanders despite being garbage just because he's 5C. But it doesn't seem overpowered by any stretch.
Commander is already legacy 2.0 except for people not WANTING to play it that way. That's what stops it from always being high-powered, not color identity.
I also wouldn't say they're very conservative. Inalla was a very risky (and imo stupid) design. They almost always push the envelope pretty far with their precon designs.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
My actual argument was that a tradeoff of a simpler manabase and a few monowhite-matters cards seems fair or even disadvantageous, balance-wise, compared to the dramatically larger pool of cards you can work with by just playing a five-color commander.
- Rabid Wombat
The question I think you want to ask is "Should Wizards print some smaller/different 5c commanders" which I would be far more on board with especially if they were executed like the FRF Kahns with coloured abilities. I think there is a good amount of design space to build in so that it, or they, could be pretty unique.
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
But it would be cool to play an all Plains deck and have access to some powerful creatures. I think it would price a few more people into commander.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
RWArchangel Avacyn, GWNazahn, Revered Bladesmith, RKari Zev, Skyship Raider (French Duel)
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
So more like...
Voodoo Dude 2BB
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Mastery — If ~ is your commander, you may include curse cards of any color identity in your deck and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast curse spells.
Whenever a curse you control becomes attached to an opponent, that player discards two cards.
2/2
Leader of the Meek 1WW
Legendary Creature - Human Coward
Mastery — If ~ is your commander, you may include creature cards with power 2 or less of any color identity in your deck and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast creature spells with power 2 or less.
Whenever a creature with power 2 or less enters the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on Leader of the Meek.
1/2
Also for the record, I'm not asking about these two specific cards. Those are just examples. The white commander could just as easily be limited to auras, they could just as easily not be monocolor, and so on.
- Rabid Wombat
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I'm honestly getting tired of looking at decks that look like EDHREC's most popular cards all slammed into one deck.