What are cards you play in the Commander format that are underplayed or underrated but are still worth playing? Be sure to explain why the card you are naming is a good hidden gem.
I'm NOT interested in hearing about cards that are very good but only with one niche commander or archetype. For example, Ashnod's Transmogrant is card most players have never played against and it has fantastic synergy with Padeem, Consul of Innovation. Otherwise the card is quite mediocre. For the context of this discussion Ashnod's Transmogrant is NOT a hidden gem.
Instead, I am interested in hearing about hidden gems that could fit into a wide variety of decks and strategies. Hidden gems are cards that are rarely played. They certainly shouldn't be listed on EDHREC'stopmostplayedcardslists and they should be cards you rarely encounter when playing at a LGS.
Examples of good hidden gems in my opinion:
Submerge: Submerge a removal spell that is free provided your meta has players that use Forest cards (i.e. virtually all play groups). It gets around indestructible effects and it is great in response to our opponents using tutors and fetch lands which are very common in the format. I think any deck that mono or two color blue deck should be running Submerge and even some three colored decks depending on their mana base.
Winged Coatl is an auto-include for UG for me. No one sees it coming as a top chumper (flying, instant-speed, not needing to target). Kaseto, Ezuri, Rashmi, Vig, Animar, Riku, and Surrak have some synergy with it, too.
For a deck in green that has a low mana curve and wants to play multiple spells a turn, there's Frontier Siege. It's four extra mana a turn for four mana if you can spend it all.
The hidden gems list contains dozens of cards that are only good with a niche commander or a narrow archetype similar to Ashnod's Transmogrant. Thran Turbine is another card that is only good in a narrow set of situations because you have to have a mana sink and it has to be a mana sink that is useful specifically during the upkeep phase.
Hua Tuo, Honored Physician is kind of neat in tandem with Sylvan Library but not sure it's worth a slot.
Here's a few in Black and one other that I've come to love, which despite what EDHREC may or may not suggest, I don't meet other people who play them. The latter two have very generic, easy requirements:
Ashes to Ashes - Really great mono-B removal for a trivial loss of life as far as Commander goes.
Soul Exchange - Another really cheap Reanimation option for anyone who likes bringing their stuff back when playing Black, if you don't mind exiling a creature.
Koskun Falls - Black had Propaganda and Ghostly Prison before they were even a thing. Tapping a creature during your upkeep isn't a bad cost to play at all for holding back attacks on you. This is particularly nice if you're playing a lot of cards like Necropotence and Phyrexian Arena, which is common in Black, that taxes your life total. Holding off some aggression can be a great benefit
Withering Boon - If you're playing with three or more other players, there's a good chance this will be very useful to stem the tide of creatures coming your way or nasty ETB effects.
Primal Growth - I'm really shocked I don't see this played more. The kicker isn't hard to pay, and it puts both lands into play untapped. EDHREC suggests this is in thousands of decks, yet in all my metas I've been the only one playing this card. *shrug*
One of my favorites is Ritual of the Machine. Permanently stealing someone else's good creature in black, at the mere cost of sacrificing another creature, which is already a core black strategy. It's on the reserve list, which is one reason why I think it has slid under the radar for many people, but I have always found it a very solid card. The only thing that keeps me from playing it in most decks with black in them is that I only have a couple of copies. Unless most of your opponents are playing primarily black or artifact creatures, I don't can't imagine this not being good except in super-competitive, high-combo metagames.
For a deck in green that has a low mana curve and wants to play multiple spells a turn, there's Frontier Siege. It's four extra mana a turn for four mana if you can spend it all.
Mimic Vat is a card I put in almost any deck. you can always find value for it and if you need to exile an opponents creastue to stop reanimated shenanigans.
Deglamer/Unravel the Aether - Ever had problems dealing with a resolved and "offline" Theros god outside of W? There you go. Propably my biggest pet cards in this whole list.
Dust to Dust - While the more restrictive Ashes to Ashes sees some play, Dust to Dust is heavily underplayed. Yeah, it is only sorcery speed, but you will always find targets that need to be dealt with for good.
Hymn of Rebirth - People never see this coming outside of B.
Learn from the Past/Repopulate - Since i hate telegraphing gy-disruption in the form of artifact solutions, both of these are great if i don't have access to B. Plus, they both (can) replace themselves.
Mercadia's Downfall - Idk about your Meta, but in mine, this easily outranks a lot of overrun effects. No trample, yet you can blast it off after blockers are declared.
Soothsaying - In a format where instant speed answers and keeping mana open are vital, it's of great value to have a mana sink eot before your turn that digs as deep as you want.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Null Brooch - The negative effect of discarding your hand can really be negated in the right build. Solidly overlooked in non-blue decks, that look to put most of your hand into play. This can protect your board, while giving opponents pause to cast their own big spells for advantage.
Duelist's Heritage - Obviously good for your own Voltron type builds, but also if you are sitting at a table where you are able to make deals with opponents to attack other players, with the reward of giving them double strike, you can avoid damage to you while actually providing more damage. So not only is this card offensive but plays defensively as well. You'd be surprised how much damage you can avoid/redirect due to this card.
Mystic Barrier - One of my all time favorite casual play cards. This card is actually bonkers, it sets the complete tone for how/who gets attacked for most of the damage. Has this effect of players sitting opposite (i.e. not next to you) as a potential ally, as you don't care about their creature base. This card is actually difficult to use, changing directions due to threats will change.
Walking Atlas - In non-green decks, this little dude has the ability make extra land drops. Drawing isn't the issue in a lot of decks, getting mana into play is. This guy makes a lot of my builds outside of green. Seriously this card could/should make most decks.
Faerie Artisans - This card is the real deal. If you've ever wondered if this card is good, it always exceeds my expectations when it comes to value. If it doesn't get removed, then its shocking just how much value you get out of ETB effects and even blocking.
Countersquall hasn't been mentioned yet and it is truly fantastic.
It essentially functions as a second copy of Negate plus it hits our opponent for a little bit of damage.
Any time I build a deck with blue and black if I run more than two counter spells I always run Countersquall
Not to pick on you specifically (this is really more directed at the OP), but this is exactly why this sort of list is doomed to become both uselessly long and a nightmare to manage.
Countersquall is a moderately played card. It's got almost 2K hits on EDHrec, which is a pretty respectable number, certainly a lot more than other, more deserving (imo) cards that can be in the hundreds or even tens of cards. Just to pick one I was looking at this morning, painbringer - not a particularly great card, but if you're dredging a lot he's basically a 4 mana visara the dreadful that kills indestructibles, and he's got 36 hits. Again, not an amazing or versatile card, but just to give an idea of how buried some gem-like cards can be. 2K hits is practically celebrity status by comparison.
Countersquall itself is, no offense, but nothing special. Negate is a barely playable counterspell in commander as it's competing with the likes of arcane denial, mana drain, forbid, counterspell, force of will, disallow, etc., all of which are vastly superior at a similar cost, not to mention the more expensive value counters like cryptic command and mystic confluence. Adding 2 life lost is barely worth the mana restriction even if you're straight-up UB in a format like commander (especially when you're presumably playing a control deck with some more reliable wincon than slowing pinging people down for miniscule amounts of damage). Without a list in front of me, I'm guessing countersquall ranks somewhere in the 20s or 30s in terms of the best EDH counterspells, if not lower.
So is it a hidden gem? I mean, I'd obviously argue no. It's not particularly hidden and it's certainly not a gem (imo). But I'm willing to bet that others would disagree. And then there's a big discussion over one card. At the end of the day it's pretty subjective what constitutes both hidden and a gem. And there's twenty-thousand cards or so, at this point. If you just take the easy way out and add everything you'll have a hopelessly long list, like the old one. If you don't manage the list at all and just let people post what they like, then it becomes both long and impossible to search.
These sorts of lists are just not useful imo. For every truly hidden gem (which I'll agree submerge is, for the record) there are a hundred pseudo-gems that people like but aren't actually very good, or very rare, or either. The line is blurry as hell and it's next to impossible to draw and stick to. EDHrec is great because it provides a totally objective view of what people are using. Sure, it's limited to the meta as it exists today, but if you dig deep enough you'll find someone doing something clever. At the end of the day I think everyone has to dig as deep as they want to, and decide for themselves what constitutes a hidden gem.
Chronomantic Escape, Reality Strobe, and Delay, in addition of their literal effect they force opponents to postpone their plan due to count down. Because time counters could be manipulated it also lure opponents into false investment at the wrong time.
Countersquall hasn't been mentioned yet and it is truly fantastic.
It essentially functions as a second copy of Negate plus it hits our opponent for a little bit of damage.
Any time I build a deck with blue and black if I run more than two counter spells I always run Countersquall
Not to pick on you specifically (this is really more directed at the OP), but this is exactly why this sort of list is doomed to become both uselessly long and a nightmare to manage.
Countersquall is a moderately played card. It's got almost 2K hits on EDHrec, which is a pretty respectable number, certainly a lot more than other, more deserving (imo) cards that can be in the hundreds or even tens of cards. Just to pick one I was looking at this morning, painbringer - not a particularly great card, but if you're dredging a lot he's basically a 4 mana visara the dreadful that kills indestructibles, and he's got 36 hits. Again, not an amazing or versatile card, but just to give an idea of how buried some gem-like cards can be. 2K hits is practically celebrity status by comparison.
Countersquall itself is, no offense, but nothing special. Negate is a barely playable counterspell in commander as it's competing with the likes of arcane denial, mana drain, forbid, counterspell, force of will, disallow, etc., all of which are vastly superior at a similar cost, not to mention the more expensive value counters like cryptic command and mystic confluence. Adding 2 life lost is barely worth the mana restriction even if you're straight-up UB in a format like commander (especially when you're presumably playing a control deck with some more reliable wincon than slowing pinging people down for miniscule amounts of damage). Without a list in front of me, I'm guessing countersquall ranks somewhere in the 20s or 30s in terms of the best EDH counterspells, if not lower.
So is it a hidden gem? I mean, I'd obviously argue no. It's not particularly hidden and it's certainly not a gem (imo). But I'm willing to bet that others would disagree. And then there's a big discussion over one card. At the end of the day it's pretty subjective what constitutes both hidden and a gem. And there's twenty-thousand cards or so, at this point. If you just take the easy way out and add everything you'll have a hopelessly long list, like the old one. If you don't manage the list at all and just let people post what they like, then it becomes both long and impossible to search.
These sorts of lists are just not useful imo. For every truly hidden gem (which I'll agree submerge is, for the record) there are a hundred pseudo-gems that people like but aren't actually very good, or very rare, or either. The line is blurry as hell and it's next to impossible to draw and stick to. EDHrec is great because it provides a totally objective view of what people are using. Sure, it's limited to the meta as it exists today, but if you dig deep enough you'll find someone doing something clever. At the end of the day I think everyone has to dig as deep as they want to, and decide for themselves what constitutes a hidden gem.
I'm going to disagree with a lot of this. Negate is one of the best counterspells in the format. Probably top 5. The only ones that are obviously better are Counterspell and Mana Drain. The other better counterspell is Cryptic Command which costs twice as much and many decks wouldn't want to play it. I would play Countersquall over Dissolve or Dissipate practically any day. Forbid is a good counterspell, but it doesn't outclass Negate. Negate counters all card types except for creatures for 1U.
Countersquall has one reprint, it has never been printed in a Commander set and it hasn't been in Standard in nearly a decade. Considering how strong and useful the spell is, it is surprising it doesn't see more play. Countersquall is a hidden gem.
Submerge is played less than Countersquall, but considering how strong Countersquall is, it should be seeing much more play and frankly it's weird that it's not. The only reason it isn't seeing play is because of lack of knowledge and/or scarcity.
I think a good rule of thumb for determining is a card is a hidden gem is if it meets the following criteria:
A hidden gem should be good for several decks and arch types, rather only useful than niche commanders and narrow decks.
A hidden gem isn't a card that has several reprints.
A hidden gem most likely wasn't printed in a Commander set.
A hidden gem is a card you don't encounter frequently when playing at local game and card shops.
Based on this criteria, Countersquall, Cursed Totem and Submerge are hidden gems. Frontier Siege, a card mentioned earlier in this thread, does not meet this criteria. Faerie Artisans was another card mentioned that meets this criteria (with the exception that is was printed in a Commander set) along with Delay and Ashes to Ashes.
I would recommend not getting caught up in semantics of whether people think posts are "hidden gems" or not. The idea is just to post cards which people might not have thought about before. I've already taken away Teferi's Veil as a card I didn't even know existed, and its got me puzzling on how to use/abuse it.
Remember that there are thousands of new players to Commander, we assume everybody knows everything, which just isn't the case. A little bit of repetition on cards mentioned is not a problem, just extra reinforcement that it is good.
Holy crap on Teferi's Veil. I had completely forgotten this card existed, even though it turns out I have several copies. Good find, NoNeedToBragoBoutIt.
I've used Teferi's Veil to great effect in my Tymna the Weaver/Thrasios, Triton Hero weenies deck. All my creatures are small and wouldn't block anyways, and this helps all my creatures avoid sorcery speed removal and wraths. Its a pretty sweet card. I guess I also play Submerge in that deck, as well as a few other cards listed here. Cursed Totem, Delay have performed well in a deck full of 1 mana 1/1s.
A hidden gem I would offer is Beckon Apparition. The foil is beautiful (and cheap!) and can really but the hurt on in competitive metas. Plus getting a flying token at instant speed isn't too shabby either. Especially when the token draws you a card every turn cuz of tymna, but its still good either way.
Fragmentize and Natural State are also underplayed, especially when looking at the superior Nature's Claim, but I think they are worth running in competitive metas, with artifact mana everywhere.
Suppression Field is one of my favorite cards, and it stops tons of combos. It slows down superfriends, Thrasios, hermit druid, and tons of commanders. It hurts fetchlands as well. If you play in a 'competitive' group but don't have a competitive deck, this card will go a long way.
I think the most important thing to take away from this is that one man's trash is another man's treasure, as I basically said. Regardless of who is right, the point is that people are going to disagree, and simply including everything that everyone thinks is a hidden gem essentially renders the whole effort nearly pointless.
I'm going to disagree with a lot of this. Negate is one of the best counterspells in the format. Probably top 5. The only ones that are obviously better are Counterspell and Mana Drain. The other better counterspell is Cryptic Command which costs twice as much and many decks wouldn't want to play it. I would play Countersquall over Dissolve or Dissipate practically any day. Forbid is a good counterspell, but it doesn't outclass Negate. Negate counters all card types except for creatures for 1U.
Countersquall has one reprint, it has never been printed in a Commander set and it hasn't been in Standard in nearly a decade. Considering how strong and useful the spell is, it is surprising it doesn't see more play. Countersquall is a hidden gem.
Submerge is played less than Countersquall, but considering how strong Countersquall is, it should be seeing much more play and frankly it's weird that it's not. The only reason it isn't seeing play is because of lack of knowledge and/or scarcity.
I think a good rule of thumb for determining is a card is a hidden gem is if it meets the following criteria:
A hidden gem should be good for several decks and arch types, rather only useful than niche commanders and narrow decks.
A hidden gem isn't a card that has several reprints.
A hidden gem most likely wasn't printed in a Commander set.
A hidden gem is a card you don't encounter frequently when playing at local game and card shops.
Based on this criteria, Countersquall, Cursed Totem and Submerge are hidden gems. Frontier Siege, a card mentioned earlier in this thread, does not meet this criteria. Faerie Artisans was another card mentioned that meets this criteria (with the exception that is was printed in a Commander set) along with Delay and Ashes to Ashes.
I think it's pretty funny that you totally ignored the counterspells I mentioned and instead compared negate to relative junker counterspells like dissipate and dissolve. Also I'd love to know why you think it's better than forbid. Sometimes forbid is just cancel, but sometimes you have a loam engine going or whatever and it locks out the game. That's a pretty big upside considering you're only overpaying by 1 in the worst case. And even ignoring the buyback I don't think it's obvious that negate is superior to a simple cancel. I mean, I'd run negate over cancel personally, but it's not by a lot. Many games I'd rather have the cancel.
Anyway here's all the counters I'd personally put it behind:
arcane denial (more flexible AND less card disadvantageous)
And those are just the ones I feel comfortable putting it behind, in practice there's probably a few more. You may disagree with a few but certainly arcane denial, counterspell, disallow, dream fracture, forbid, FoW, mana drain, and mystic confluence are just much stronger cards by any reasonable metric. You may also notice that 6 of those are on the "top 25 blue noncreatures" list while negate and countersquall are not. Sure, it's probably more frequently played than some of those counters, but that's mostly because it's been reprinted to death while the better counters have not.
I don't like you list. Why does getting reprinted matter? Johan got reprinted and I've never seen anyone playing him. "whether you see it at a local store" is pretty relative, and "good" is extremely subjective (case in point negate).
Bottom line is that whether something is hidden and whether something is a gem is simply subjective. I'll be very surprised if you could devise any kind of objective criteria that would satisfy hardly anyone as a metric for gauging either.
Countersquall and Negate are functionally equivalent 99.9999% of the time. :\
100% disagree. Countersquall's downside (requiring two different colors of mana) far outweighs its upside (2 life lost). Negate is miles better. I would only consider Countersquall if I was somehow needing more than, say, 15 counters in a heavily blue and black based control deck. And considering I'm actively rebrewing my Dralnu deck, that's coming from a place of deep analysis.
As I intimated in your Phelddagrif thread (which is boss, by the way), I think you're underestimating Negate. The most dangerous spells in EDH are largely noncreatures and being able to stop them cold for only two mana is incredible. As I'm sure you're aware, Negate is the kind of card that increases in quality the higher you move up on the competitive ladder, as mana costs and universality become more relevant. Obviously it's no Mana Drain, and you'd have to be on The Good ***** ® to think otherwise, but I think it's a lot better than the following from your list:
Delay (same CMC, but Negate hard counters rather than, well, delays)
Dream Fracture (Negate has a lower CMC despite card disadvantage]
Commandeer (potentially wins games but also loses games due to extremely awkward casting costs)
Remand (doesn't actually prevent the spell from resolving, putting it more in Memory Lapse tempo territory)
I'm not saying it's top 5 (hint: it's not) but I think it's certainly worth a look if you're in the mood for a heavily blue-based control deck. I would say it's better than most 3 CMC counters, with someobviousexceptions.
While I'm here I'm gonna go ahead and say Exclude is a wonderful hidden gem. Anyone who has played Pauper understands the power of this card. You are guaranteed to have juicy targets for it in EDH, and with only 1713 inclusions on EDHREC I feel comfortable saying it's hidden. As for it being a gem, well, a significantly easier to cast Dismiss that will always have a relevant target is golden as far as I'm concerned.
I would run Negate above any counterspell that costs more than two mana except possiblyDisallow depending on meta. Force of Will, Mana Drain and Counterspell are outright better, I'll generally run Arcane Denial, Pact of Negation and Swan Song above it, and maybe Delay for fast metas where 3 turns later means never. So that still puts Negate very high up on the "best counterspells" list. That said, I rate Negate higher than Countersquall as a less restrictive cost is better than 2 damage in this format.
I would recommend not getting caught up in semantics of whether people think posts are "hidden gems" or not. The idea is just to post cards which people might not have thought about before. I've already taken away Teferi's Veil as a card I didn't even know existed, and its got me puzzling on how to use/abuse it.
It's a good second Sundial of the Infinite as far as preserving creatures / creature tokens that have a sacrifice/exile at the beginning of the next end step trigger like Wizard tokens from Inalla or Unearth creatures. Ever since C17 came out, creature tokens can actually phase instead of being exiles instead.
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I'm NOT interested in hearing about cards that are very good but only with one niche commander or archetype. For example, Ashnod's Transmogrant is card most players have never played against and it has fantastic synergy with Padeem, Consul of Innovation. Otherwise the card is quite mediocre. For the context of this discussion Ashnod's Transmogrant is NOT a hidden gem.
Instead, I am interested in hearing about hidden gems that could fit into a wide variety of decks and strategies. Hidden gems are cards that are rarely played. They certainly shouldn't be listed on EDHREC's top most played cards lists and they should be cards you rarely encounter when playing at a LGS.
Submerge: Submerge a removal spell that is free provided your meta has players that use Forest cards (i.e. virtually all play groups). It gets around indestructible effects and it is great in response to our opponents using tutors and fetch lands which are very common in the format. I think any deck that mono or two color blue deck should be running Submerge and even some three colored decks depending on their mana base.
Cursed Totem: Cursed Totem hates on mana ability creatures like Birds of Paradise and Llanowar Elves while also preventing power commander abilities from being activated like Mayael the Anima, Azami, Lady of Scrolls and Teysa, Orzhov Scion. It also hoses powerful utility creatures like Spore Frog, Mother of Runes and Viscera Seer. It does impact your own creatures, so it would be better suited for a control list with limited creatures or a list without activated abilities but it is incredibly powerful and if it isn't removed it can totally change a game.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Some of my favorites are Thran Turbine and Hua Tuo, Honored Physician alongside Call of the Wild
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/204388-share-your-hidden-gems-first-post-contains-a
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
The hidden gems list contains dozens of cards that are only good with a niche commander or a narrow archetype similar to Ashnod's Transmogrant. Thran Turbine is another card that is only good in a narrow set of situations because you have to have a mana sink and it has to be a mana sink that is useful specifically during the upkeep phase.
Hua Tuo, Honored Physician is kind of neat in tandem with Sylvan Library but not sure it's worth a slot.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Ashes to Ashes - Really great mono-B removal for a trivial loss of life as far as Commander goes.
Soul Exchange - Another really cheap Reanimation option for anyone who likes bringing their stuff back when playing Black, if you don't mind exiling a creature.
Koskun Falls - Black had Propaganda and Ghostly Prison before they were even a thing. Tapping a creature during your upkeep isn't a bad cost to play at all for holding back attacks on you. This is particularly nice if you're playing a lot of cards like Necropotence and Phyrexian Arena, which is common in Black, that taxes your life total. Holding off some aggression can be a great benefit
Withering Boon - If you're playing with three or more other players, there's a good chance this will be very useful to stem the tide of creatures coming your way or nasty ETB effects.
Primal Growth - I'm really shocked I don't see this played more. The kicker isn't hard to pay, and it puts both lands into play untapped. EDHREC suggests this is in thousands of decks, yet in all my metas I've been the only one playing this card. *shrug*
(Also known as Xenphire)
Good card but not exactly a hidden gem.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Blinding Fog - No Heroic Intervention, but still a decent roleplayer against spot removal and R board wipes.
Deglamer/Unravel the Aether - Ever had problems dealing with a resolved and "offline" Theros god outside of W? There you go. Propably my biggest pet cards in this whole list.
Dust to Dust - While the more restrictive Ashes to Ashes sees some play, Dust to Dust is heavily underplayed. Yeah, it is only sorcery speed, but you will always find targets that need to be dealt with for good.
Fortuitous Find/Grim Discovery/Remember the Fallen/Reviving Melody - I grew very fond of these flexible gy-recursion spells, tbh.
Hymn of Rebirth - People never see this coming outside of B.
Learn from the Past/Repopulate - Since i hate telegraphing gy-disruption in the form of artifact solutions, both of these are great if i don't have access to B. Plus, they both (can) replace themselves.
Mercadia's Downfall - Idk about your Meta, but in mine, this easily outranks a lot of overrun effects. No trample, yet you can blast it off after blockers are declared.
Peace and Quiet/Rack and Ruin/Into the Core - Dealing with 2 problematic permanents at instant speed is value most of the time.
Righteous Aura - More versatile than Forcefield, stalls Comet Storm-slingers and commander damage decks amazingly.
Ritual of the Machine - Totally agree on this one. Could've stumbled upon it earlier for my Gonti, Lord of Luxury deck, myself. Morbid Curiosity is equally underplayed.
Soothsaying - In a format where instant speed answers and keeping mana open are vital, it's of great value to have a mana sink eot before your turn that digs as deep as you want.
Sudden Death/Wipe Away - While Trickbind, Sudden Spoiling and Krosan Grip see a lot of play, these totally should as well. Split Second is simply amazing.
Teferi's Veil - Ever since tokens can phase this thing has gotten even better. Sorcery speed board wipes won't bother you any longer.
Yavimaya Dryad - Wood Elves 2.0 says hi.
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How on earth is Mimic Vat a hidden gem, with literally 10k decks running it?
Add green for Aura Shards (and Doubling Season and Parallel Lives), black for Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos, red for Purphoros, God of the Forge and Warstorm Surge. I'm sure blue has some value here too?
On phasing:
Null Brooch - The negative effect of discarding your hand can really be negated in the right build. Solidly overlooked in non-blue decks, that look to put most of your hand into play. This can protect your board, while giving opponents pause to cast their own big spells for advantage.
Duelist's Heritage - Obviously good for your own Voltron type builds, but also if you are sitting at a table where you are able to make deals with opponents to attack other players, with the reward of giving them double strike, you can avoid damage to you while actually providing more damage. So not only is this card offensive but plays defensively as well. You'd be surprised how much damage you can avoid/redirect due to this card.
Mystic Barrier - One of my all time favorite casual play cards. This card is actually bonkers, it sets the complete tone for how/who gets attacked for most of the damage. Has this effect of players sitting opposite (i.e. not next to you) as a potential ally, as you don't care about their creature base. This card is actually difficult to use, changing directions due to threats will change.
Walking Atlas - In non-green decks, this little dude has the ability make extra land drops. Drawing isn't the issue in a lot of decks, getting mana into play is. This guy makes a lot of my builds outside of green. Seriously this card could/should make most decks.
Faerie Artisans - This card is the real deal. If you've ever wondered if this card is good, it always exceeds my expectations when it comes to value. If it doesn't get removed, then its shocking just how much value you get out of ETB effects and even blocking.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
It essentially functions as a second copy of Negate plus it hits our opponent for a little bit of damage.
Any time I build a deck with blue and black if I run more than two counter spells I always run Countersquall
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Countersquall is a moderately played card. It's got almost 2K hits on EDHrec, which is a pretty respectable number, certainly a lot more than other, more deserving (imo) cards that can be in the hundreds or even tens of cards. Just to pick one I was looking at this morning, painbringer - not a particularly great card, but if you're dredging a lot he's basically a 4 mana visara the dreadful that kills indestructibles, and he's got 36 hits. Again, not an amazing or versatile card, but just to give an idea of how buried some gem-like cards can be. 2K hits is practically celebrity status by comparison.
Countersquall itself is, no offense, but nothing special. Negate is a barely playable counterspell in commander as it's competing with the likes of arcane denial, mana drain, forbid, counterspell, force of will, disallow, etc., all of which are vastly superior at a similar cost, not to mention the more expensive value counters like cryptic command and mystic confluence. Adding 2 life lost is barely worth the mana restriction even if you're straight-up UB in a format like commander (especially when you're presumably playing a control deck with some more reliable wincon than slowing pinging people down for miniscule amounts of damage). Without a list in front of me, I'm guessing countersquall ranks somewhere in the 20s or 30s in terms of the best EDH counterspells, if not lower.
So is it a hidden gem? I mean, I'd obviously argue no. It's not particularly hidden and it's certainly not a gem (imo). But I'm willing to bet that others would disagree. And then there's a big discussion over one card. At the end of the day it's pretty subjective what constitutes both hidden and a gem. And there's twenty-thousand cards or so, at this point. If you just take the easy way out and add everything you'll have a hopelessly long list, like the old one. If you don't manage the list at all and just let people post what they like, then it becomes both long and impossible to search.
These sorts of lists are just not useful imo. For every truly hidden gem (which I'll agree submerge is, for the record) there are a hundred pseudo-gems that people like but aren't actually very good, or very rare, or either. The line is blurry as hell and it's next to impossible to draw and stick to. EDHrec is great because it provides a totally objective view of what people are using. Sure, it's limited to the meta as it exists today, but if you dig deep enough you'll find someone doing something clever. At the end of the day I think everyone has to dig as deep as they want to, and decide for themselves what constitutes a hidden gem.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I'm going to disagree with a lot of this. Negate is one of the best counterspells in the format. Probably top 5. The only ones that are obviously better are Counterspell and Mana Drain. The other better counterspell is Cryptic Command which costs twice as much and many decks wouldn't want to play it. I would play Countersquall over Dissolve or Dissipate practically any day. Forbid is a good counterspell, but it doesn't outclass Negate. Negate counters all card types except for creatures for 1U.
Countersquall is a better Negate that isn't in the top 50 played EDH multicolored spells or even in the top 50 played EDHREC blue black spells. Even among Oona, Queen of the Fae, arguably the best blue/black control commander in the format, Countersquall isn't a frequently played spell. To put that in perspective, Negate is a top spell played in Oona lists and is a top played blue spell.
Countersquall has one reprint, it has never been printed in a Commander set and it hasn't been in Standard in nearly a decade. Considering how strong and useful the spell is, it is surprising it doesn't see more play. Countersquall is a hidden gem.
Submerge is played less than Countersquall, but considering how strong Countersquall is, it should be seeing much more play and frankly it's weird that it's not. The only reason it isn't seeing play is because of lack of knowledge and/or scarcity.
I think a good rule of thumb for determining is a card is a hidden gem is if it meets the following criteria:
Based on this criteria, Countersquall, Cursed Totem and Submerge are hidden gems. Frontier Siege, a card mentioned earlier in this thread, does not meet this criteria. Faerie Artisans was another card mentioned that meets this criteria (with the exception that is was printed in a Commander set) along with Delay and Ashes to Ashes.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Remember that there are thousands of new players to Commander, we assume everybody knows everything, which just isn't the case. A little bit of repetition on cards mentioned is not a problem, just extra reinforcement that it is good.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
A hidden gem I would offer is Beckon Apparition. The foil is beautiful (and cheap!) and can really but the hurt on in competitive metas. Plus getting a flying token at instant speed isn't too shabby either. Especially when the token draws you a card every turn cuz of tymna, but its still good either way.
Fragmentize and Natural State are also underplayed, especially when looking at the superior Nature's Claim, but I think they are worth running in competitive metas, with artifact mana everywhere.
Suppression Field is one of my favorite cards, and it stops tons of combos. It slows down superfriends, Thrasios, hermit druid, and tons of commanders. It hurts fetchlands as well. If you play in a 'competitive' group but don't have a competitive deck, this card will go a long way.
Anyway here's all the counters I'd personally put it behind:
And those are just the ones I feel comfortable putting it behind, in practice there's probably a few more. You may disagree with a few but certainly arcane denial, counterspell, disallow, dream fracture, forbid, FoW, mana drain, and mystic confluence are just much stronger cards by any reasonable metric. You may also notice that 6 of those are on the "top 25 blue noncreatures" list while negate and countersquall are not. Sure, it's probably more frequently played than some of those counters, but that's mostly because it's been reprinted to death while the better counters have not.
I don't like you list. Why does getting reprinted matter? Johan got reprinted and I've never seen anyone playing him. "whether you see it at a local store" is pretty relative, and "good" is extremely subjective (case in point negate).
Bottom line is that whether something is hidden and whether something is a gem is simply subjective. I'll be very surprised if you could devise any kind of objective criteria that would satisfy hardly anyone as a metric for gauging either.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
100% disagree. Countersquall's downside (requiring two different colors of mana) far outweighs its upside (2 life lost). Negate is miles better. I would only consider Countersquall if I was somehow needing more than, say, 15 counters in a heavily blue and black based control deck. And considering I'm actively rebrewing my Dralnu deck, that's coming from a place of deep analysis.
As I intimated in your Phelddagrif thread (which is boss, by the way), I think you're underestimating Negate. The most dangerous spells in EDH are largely noncreatures and being able to stop them cold for only two mana is incredible. As I'm sure you're aware, Negate is the kind of card that increases in quality the higher you move up on the competitive ladder, as mana costs and universality become more relevant. Obviously it's no Mana Drain, and you'd have to be on The Good ***** ® to think otherwise, but I think it's a lot better than the following from your list:
I'm not saying it's top 5 (hint: it's not) but I think it's certainly worth a look if you're in the mood for a heavily blue-based control deck. I would say it's better than most 3 CMC counters, with some obvious exceptions.
While I'm here I'm gonna go ahead and say Exclude is a wonderful hidden gem. Anyone who has played Pauper understands the power of this card. You are guaranteed to have juicy targets for it in EDH, and with only 1713 inclusions on EDHREC I feel comfortable saying it's hidden. As for it being a gem, well, a significantly easier to cast Dismiss that will always have a relevant target is golden as far as I'm concerned.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
It's a good second Sundial of the Infinite as far as preserving creatures / creature tokens that have a sacrifice/exile at the beginning of the next end step trigger like Wizard tokens from Inalla or Unearth creatures. Ever since C17 came out, creature tokens can actually phase instead of being exiles instead.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.