So I've recently became amused by Malfegor and wants to build a deck with him, though there's a dilemma at hand. I'm hoping to make his deck a mutual discard direction (such as with Delirium Skeins) while benefiting from not only my opponents' lacking but also from madness, a filled graveyard, and other compensations (like Ghirapur Orrery, Geth's Grimoire, etc).
The question is, should I pack wheel effect? A common combo is casting Malfegor right before Wheel of Fate times up and refill the hand right after, but that would of course also fill my opponents' hand (the same could be said about Memory Jar). I would of course still have the advantage of utilizing the graveyard and discarding, but giving opponents a full hand somewhat lessened the profit. I confess I've also won via Megrim and Liliana's Caress with it.
X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
I'm not sure if the mutual discard route really works with Malfaegor. He wants you to have cards in hand to maximize his effect, otherwise he's just a 6/6 flyer for 6. He does get you immediately hellbent, but being a board wipe on a stick seems stronger. If your opponents have cards in hand, wheels are weaker for them tha n for you. Casting him the turn prior to WoF coming off suspend seems really strong, and it may be worth it to keep that one with no other wheels (the others are only good if you top deck them after Malfaegor). Runehorn is probably the best for this deck, since he works from the yard, and this is a deck where you might not always want to wheel so having the option of casting him as a dragon might actually matter.
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Yeah, be careful that you don't shut off his board-clearing ability with the mutual discard. With a card like Uba Mask, you enable Hellbent for the rest of the game, but you also don't ever get back cards in hand to discard to the Crackling Doom effect. I think it's a good route to go to make sure that you're always getting value out of the marginal Madness cards, it would just need a TON of draw to keep going.
I'd lean on the side of more things like Geth's Grimoire, Waste Not, or even things like Erebos, God of the Dead, Greed and Mind's Eye that are permanents on the field providing a fill up after you drop the Demon. Tutor for one before dropping him, and you can be set up for the rest of the game.
Also, anything that flickers the general, clones him, or returns him to hand Conjurer's Closet, Heat Shimmer, etc, seem like they would be strong with this general.
Thank you all. I understand Malfegor requires cards in hand to be effective, but unless my opponent plays a token deck I normally don't see them with 4+ creatures, since I also play the regular B/R spells that remove creatures. In addition to creature removal, Malfegor also serves to discard (Madness), hellbent, and filling the grave for me.
It appears that people too are leaning towards the no-wheel options, while fully utilizing madness, flashback, impulse-draw, and permanents that net card when needed. Good call, since that would justify using mutual discards in group games, remain functional even without a hand. I will keep Runehorn Hellkite, Wheel fo Fate, and Ill-Gotten Gains.
I don't know if I want to use The Rack type of effects since it's not always easy to keep everyone's hand low, Pox type of effect is probably better (use a lot of artifact mana to compensate). Megrim/Liliana's Caress are devastating with wheels but if that's not the formula then they might be removed, but they are good damage source if I use Ensnaring Bridge...
I'm not sure if the mutual discard route really works with Malfaegor.
I agree with this sentiment. Whatever else you do, mutual discard effects will hurt Malf's power, which lies in a one-sided board wipe for cheap (mana-wise, pitching your hand is super expensive).
i would use him with cards that come back from the grave to hand by themselves like Squee, so i always have things to discard,and also use other discard to use effects
Might work a little differently with Malfegor, but i've seen wheel decks with Library of Leng (better check the oracle text!) in them, that kept going by always keeping value top deck.
Might work a little differently with Malfegor, but i've seen wheel decks with Library of Leng (better check the oracle text!) in them, that kept going by always keeping value top deck.
Aye, have that in my current built, though I cannot think of another card that does the same.
The question is, should I pack wheel effect? A common combo is casting Malfegor right before Wheel of Fate times up and refill the hand right after, but that would of course also fill my opponents' hand (the same could be said about Memory Jar). I would of course still have the advantage of utilizing the graveyard and discarding, but giving opponents a full hand somewhat lessened the profit. I confess I've also won via Megrim and Liliana's Caress with it.
What do you think, wheel or no wheel?
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Edit: there's also this nice pile of additions if going the hellbent route: Grafted Skullcap, Fool's Tome, Uba Mask, Nihilistic Glee, Mindstorm Crown, Bottled Cloister, and any Outpost Siege variants.
Aye, I use some of them, and I tried out Anvil of Bogardan to good effect also. Maybe a copy of Runehorn Hellkite, Magus of the Wheel, and Magus of the Will just in case I need to get cards.
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O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I'd lean on the side of more things like Geth's Grimoire, Waste Not, or even things like Erebos, God of the Dead, Greed and Mind's Eye that are permanents on the field providing a fill up after you drop the Demon. Tutor for one before dropping him, and you can be set up for the rest of the game.
Also, anything that flickers the general, clones him, or returns him to hand Conjurer's Closet, Heat Shimmer, etc, seem like they would be strong with this general.
It appears that people too are leaning towards the no-wheel options, while fully utilizing madness, flashback, impulse-draw, and permanents that net card when needed. Good call, since that would justify using mutual discards in group games, remain functional even without a hand. I will keep Runehorn Hellkite, Wheel fo Fate, and Ill-Gotten Gains.
I don't know if I want to use The Rack type of effects since it's not always easy to keep everyone's hand low, Pox type of effect is probably better (use a lot of artifact mana to compensate). Megrim/Liliana's Caress are devastating with wheels but if that's not the formula then they might be removed, but they are good damage source if I use Ensnaring Bridge...
Currently testing Sink into Takenuma, forces opponent to discard cards, then uses Malfegor with my increased hand size. What do you guys think of Dire Fleet Daredevil and Dead Man's Chest?
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
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Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
Damage means you can redirect it to opponent's planeswalkers if they have any.
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Damage dealt can also be prevented by effects that explicitly use the word 'prevent', (like Intervention Pact), but losing life cannot.
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Aye, have that in my current built, though I cannot think of another card that does the same.
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Rona, Disciple of Gix
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Hallar
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