I've been playing Commander for sometime and of all the commanders out there Nekusar, the Mindrazer is my fav. I know I know he is tier 3 and very much hated (just because some people run infect) but I do think he may be competitive, so I just wanna try him in a competitive scenario. (I also acknowledge that there are "better" Grixis commanders like Kess, Dissident Mage and Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge but I don't like them). I don't know if there are other posts already made regarding this subject and I'm not really into searching because I am lazy to spend some time searching in forums but so far, I got these cards:
I need help to build a Nekusar deck based not only on wheeling but also milling so I got this card Mind Grind for some epic group milling and Mindcrank is amazing. I'm wondering: what other cards must I include in my deck? Should I put stax cards? Pillowforts? What about the mana rocks? And cards like Cabal Ritual, Dark Ritual, Pyretic Ritual, High Tide, Drain Power? How many tutors and fetch lands I must put? - Thanks in advance.
Bloodchief Ascension goes online after one turn in a four-man pod. (Three-man if you have a way to shock one opponent on your turn.) It goes infinite with Mindcrank, and it can be good whenever anyone discards anything.
You'll probably want Black Vise and friends as well.
You might consider Arcane Laboratory to keep your opponents from actually, you know, using all those cards you drew.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
The problem with running arcane laboratory in a nekusar shell is that there is only one, and it affects you as well. I would, however, consider a lot of mass bounce. In particular, cyclonic rift should be a no-brainer, but others are equally good, such as evacuation. Giving an aggressive creature deck or quick combo extra cards is going to quickly lead to you getting killed if you can't stop them in their tracks. I realize arcane laboratory will stop spell-based combo, but if you do that, then you end up running a heavily tutor based build in a deck that usually prefers draw 7 effects for the kill. It's just some food for thought.
Generally speaking, you're in a deck that runs a lot of card draw, so outside of demonic tutor, mystical tutor, and vampiric tutor, I am not sure I would run that many. These tutors are the most competitive in your colors. I realize gamble is a one mana tutor, but it is a dangerous one because of the discard at random clause.
For pillowfort, in BUR? I think you're better off just running damnation or similar in addition to the mass bounce previously suggested. Innocent blood and barter in blood are relatively budget options that are extremely potent in a more competitive meta because not many people play battlecruiser go-wide decks.
Nekusar can be very competitive; he's usually the deck I go to when I want to be especially evil. I have seen tier-1 versions of him as well as versions that are more casual without being completely useless. There are many different ways of running Nekusar but as far as staples go, you need:
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The problem with running arcane laboratory in a nekusar shell is that there is only one, and it affects you as well.
Fair enough. If you're running storm, that can be a problem, but "only one" isn't really a problem in the colors of universal tutors. My biggest concern is, I've actually helped my opponents combo out on me before.
By the way, you forgot Darksteel Ingot. It's my boardwipe insurance.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Bloodchief Ascension goes online after one turn in a four-man pod. (Three-man if you have a way to shock one opponent on your turn.) It goes infinite with Mindcrank, and it can be good whenever anyone discards anything.
You'll probably want Black Vise and friends as well.
The problem with running arcane laboratory in a nekusar shell is that there is only one, and it affects you as well. I would, however, consider a lot of mass bounce. In particular, cyclonic rift should be a no-brainer, but others are equally good, such as evacuation. Giving an aggressive creature deck or quick combo extra cards is going to quickly lead to you getting killed if you can't stop them in their tracks. I realize arcane laboratory will stop spell-based combo, but if you do that, then you end up running a heavily tutor based build in a deck that usually prefers draw 7 effects for the kill. It's just some food for thought.
Generally speaking, you're in a deck that runs a lot of card draw, so outside of demonic tutor, mystical tutor, and vampiric tutor, I am not sure I would run that many. These tutors are the most competitive in your colors. I realize gamble is a one mana tutor, but it is a dangerous one because of the discard at random clause.
For pillowfort, in BUR? I think you're better off just running damnation or similar in addition to the mass bounce previously suggested. Innocent blood and barter in blood are relatively budget options that are extremely potent in a more competitive meta because not many people play battlecruiser go-wide decks.
I already have most of the mana rocks you mentioned. I was thinking about adding cards like Propaganda, Dissipation Field and No Mercy to protect myself since I'm the most hated. But I don't know, I'm wondering if those enchantments will make my deck slower.
Nekusar can be very competitive; he's usually the deck I go to when I want to be especially evil. I have seen tier-1 versions of him as well as versions that are more casual without being completely useless. There are many different ways of running Nekusar but as far as staples go, you need:
I cut off Spiteful Visions because of the self-harm. Coupling Spiteful Visions and fetch lands I kill myself. I also cut Fevered Visions because I thought it was a stupid card, but I'm rethinking.
The problem with running arcane laboratory in a nekusar shell is that there is only one, and it affects you as well.
Fair enough. If you're running storm, that can be a problem, but "only one" isn't really a problem in the colors of universal tutors. My biggest concern is, I've actually helped my opponents combo out on me before.
By the way, you forgot Darksteel Ingot. It's my boardwipe insurance.
Allow me to introduce you to Underworld Dreams and Spiteful Visions. Now one Forced Fruition trigger does 7 damage for each time your opponent does that for Nekusar, 7 for Dreams, and 7 for Visions. You should also include some equipment to give Nekusar lifelink, again to keep your plans from backfiring on you. The Locust God also lets you harass your opponents whenever you draw cards.
And remember to include lots of targeted card draw. Sign in Blood is also a shock to the dome (and you shock again for each of the aforementioned cards!)
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Allow me to introduce you to Underworld Dreams and Spiteful Visions. Now one Forced Fruition trigger does 7 damage for each time your opponent does that for Nekusar, 7 for Dreams, and 7 for Visions. You should also include some equipment to give Nekusar lifelink, again to keep your plans from backfiring on you. The Locust God also lets you harass your opponents whenever you draw cards.
And remember to include lots of targeted card draw. Sign in Blood is also a shock to the dome (and you shock again for each of the aforementioned cards!)
I don't like Necropotence because it won't allow me to use the my discarded cards from exile.
This is a poor reason for not including one of the most powerful cards in the format. Doubly so for a deck that wishes to be competitive. I haven't seen your list but if you're capable of consistently being able to pay the casting cost you should definitely run it. Besides, what are you running to recur spells? Yawgmoth's Will or Past in Flames, sure, but while they have negative synergy with Necro it's just such a powerful card that it's worth running regardless.
I would avoid mill and focus on winning through damage or infect. While they somewhat work in tandem I think you would ultimately dilute your deck's focus by trying to jam in an alternate win condition such as mill. Beyond that mill is just a super weak mechanic in EDH. Not only do you have more cards to burn through, but mill usually doesn't affect the boardstate. Just pack your deck with enough disruption and protection to insure that your A plan (Wheels) can be consistently met each game.
and I don't like Necropotence because it won't allow me to use the my discarded cards from exile.
The problem isn't you. I don't use it in many of my decks either. (Decks with three or more colors are questionable. Decks which focus on the graveyard are a no-go.) The problem is that your opponent will, most of the time, use it. You need counterspells for those cases. But Necro hoses your entire game plan, to an extent, because Necro draws aren't legally "draws". (The same can be said for Bob and friends.) You can still force an opponent to draw, or play off of other card draw spells they use (especially since any necro player worth his salt, or her salt, has instant-speed card draw available, should the need arise).
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I don't like Necropotence because it won't allow me to use the my discarded cards from exile.
This is a poor reason for not including one of the most powerful cards in the format. Doubly so for a deck that wishes to be competitive. I haven't seen your list but if you're capable of consistently being able to pay the casting cost you should definitely run it. Besides, what are you running to recur spells? Yawgmoth's Will or Past in Flames, sure, but while they have negative synergy with Necro it's just such a powerful card that it's worth running regardless.
I would avoid mill and focus on winning through damage or infect. While they somewhat work in tandem I think you would ultimately dilute your deck's focus by trying to jam in an alternate win condition such as mill. Beyond that mill is just a super weak mechanic in EDH. Not only do you have more cards to burn through, but mill usually doesn't affect the boardstate. Just pack your deck with enough disruption and protection to insure that your A plan (Wheels) can be consistently met each game.
and I don't like Necropotence because it won't allow me to use the my discarded cards from exile.
The problem isn't you. I don't use it in many of my decks either. (Decks with three or more colors are questionable. Decks which focus on the graveyard are a no-go.) The problem is that your opponent will, most of the time, use it. You need counterspells for those cases. But Necro hoses your entire game plan, to an extent, because Necro draws aren't legally "draws". (The same can be said for Bob and friends.) You can still force an opponent to draw, or play off of other card draw spells they use (especially since any necro player worth his salt, or her salt, has instant-speed card draw available, should the need arise).
I put Dream Halls instead of Necropotence. I put so many tutors on my decklist that I expect Chains of Mephistopheles to stop them from drawing. I will build a deck here and put the link in this thread.
Just to point out, Forced Fruition can actually lock opponents out if you give Nek infect and can get a bit more damage from him. Gratuitous Violence(because you seem averse to damaging yourself to get your ends so Furnace of Rath is out) with the aforementioned Tainted Strike or Corrupted Conscience means that Nek is immediately lethal to anyone who casts a spell.
Yep. Don't think of it as "opponent draws 7 cards". Think of it as "opponent can only cast (life/7-1, rounded up) spells for the rest of the game, until I start adding my other, ahem, 'fun units'". Nek and Forced Fruition basically hate storm off the board.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Just to point out, Forced Fruition can actually lock opponents out if you give Nek infect and can get a bit more damage from him. Gratuitous Violence(because you seem averse to damaging yourself to get your ends so Furnace of Rath is out) with the aforementioned Tainted Strike or Corrupted Conscience means that Nek is immediately lethal to anyone who casts a spell.
I put Gratuitous Violence because I like it more than Furnace of Rath(yeah I'm very averse to self dmg and I also don't like to give edges to my opponents)
Btw, do you guys know if there's tool (software and the likes) that can "measure" the "competitiveness" of a deck? Merry Xmas btw!
One of the better ways to test the 'competitiveness' is to goldfish the deck a whole lot of times (100 minimum), and to keep track on the turn that you would win. More 'competitive' decks can do this 75%~ by turn 5.
One of the better ways to test the 'competitiveness' is to goldfish the deck a whole lot of times (100 minimum), and to keep track on the turn that you would win. More 'competitive' decks can do this 75%~ by turn 5.
Not necessarily. Control decks can't really be goldfished, but they can cut through a combo deck like a hot knife through butter.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I've been playing Commander for sometime and of all the commanders out there Nekusar, the Mindrazer is my fav. I know I know he is tier 3 and very much hated (just because some people run infect) but I do think he may be competitive, so I just wanna try him in a competitive scenario. (I also acknowledge that there are "better" Grixis commanders like Kess, Dissident Mage and Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge but I don't like them). I don't know if there are other posts already made regarding this subject and I'm not really into searching because I am lazy to spend some time searching in forums but so far, I got these cards:
Underworld Dreams, Liliana's Caress, Megrim, Wheel of Fortune, Windfall, Molten Psyche, Dark Deal, Wheel and Deal, Chains of Mephistopheles, Teferi's Puzzle Box, Reforge the Soul, Winds of Change, Timetwister, Day's Undoing, Fate Unraveler, Magus of the Jar, Memory Jar, Mindcrank and Duskmantle Guildmage.
I need help to build a Nekusar deck based not only on wheeling but also milling so I got this card Mind Grind for some epic group milling and Mindcrank is amazing. I'm wondering: what other cards must I include in my deck? Should I put stax cards? Pillowforts? What about the mana rocks? And cards like Cabal Ritual, Dark Ritual, Pyretic Ritual, High Tide, Drain Power? How many tutors and fetch lands I must put? - Thanks in advance.
You'll probably want Black Vise and friends as well.
Also, no mention of Forced Fruition? Really?
You might consider Arcane Laboratory to keep your opponents from actually, you know, using all those cards you drew.
On phasing:
Generally speaking, you're in a deck that runs a lot of card draw, so outside of demonic tutor, mystical tutor, and vampiric tutor, I am not sure I would run that many. These tutors are the most competitive in your colors. I realize gamble is a one mana tutor, but it is a dangerous one because of the discard at random clause.
For pillowfort, in BUR? I think you're better off just running damnation or similar in addition to the mass bounce previously suggested. Innocent blood and barter in blood are relatively budget options that are extremely potent in a more competitive meta because not many people play battlecruiser go-wide decks.
Mana rocks? Signets (rakdos signet, izzet signet, and dimir signet), sol ring, mana vault, mana crypt, grim monolith, talismans (talisman of indulgence, talisman of dominance), etc. If you ever get to cmc 3 mana rocks, then I would only consider chromatic lantern or coalition relic because you will have intense color needs, rather than colorless.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
- wheels (Wheel of Fortune, Whispering Madness, Molten Psyche, etc.)
- pain-for-draw (Psychosis Crawler, Underworld Dreams, etc.)
- pain-for-discard (Megrim, Liliana's Caress, etc.)
With most of those types of cards in play and consistent wheeling, it's very easy to win a game out of nowhere in a single turn.BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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Burning Inquiry and master of the feast are good.
Also, Spiteful visions and fevered visions.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Those are good for slower versions of Nekusar. If you want it to be Tier1 you have to make the deck win as quickly as possible.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
Fair enough. If you're running storm, that can be a problem, but "only one" isn't really a problem in the colors of universal tutors. My biggest concern is, I've actually helped my opponents combo out on me before.
By the way, you forgot Darksteel Ingot. It's my boardwipe insurance.
On phasing:
Thanks for the help. I'm definitively going to add those cards but I'm afraid Forced Fruition will backfire in some situations...?
I already have most of the mana rocks you mentioned. I was thinking about adding cards like Propaganda, Dissipation Field and No Mercy to protect myself since I'm the most hated. But I don't know, I'm wondering if those enchantments will make my deck slower.
That's definitively a good card, but for my Nekusar I have Helm of the Ghastlord just for him. I could give Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind this card (Curiosity). So many options you know.
I don't like reanimators, I prefer mills and wheels, I mean, losing friends. Notion Thief I hate this card, really. Always backfired.
I cut off Spiteful Visions because of the self-harm. Coupling Spiteful Visions and fetch lands I kill myself. I also cut Fevered Visions because I thought it was a stupid card, but I'm rethinking.
This is what I'm afraid of. I'm thinking about cutting some cards like Propaganda and No Mercy in order to put some cruel boardwipes like Damnation, Black Sun's Zenith and Plague Winds.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Allow me to introduce you to Underworld Dreams and Spiteful Visions. Now one Forced Fruition trigger does 7 damage for each time your opponent does that for Nekusar, 7 for Dreams, and 7 for Visions. You should also include some equipment to give Nekusar lifelink, again to keep your plans from backfiring on you. The Locust God also lets you harass your opponents whenever you draw cards.
And remember to include lots of targeted card draw. Sign in Blood is also a shock to the dome (and you shock again for each of the aforementioned cards!)
You will need counterspells though, regardless. The best draw spell in the format hoses your whole game plan.
On phasing:
Spiteful Visions will kill me and I don't like Necropotence because it won't allow me to use the my discarded cards from exile.
I would avoid mill and focus on winning through damage or infect. While they somewhat work in tandem I think you would ultimately dilute your deck's focus by trying to jam in an alternate win condition such as mill. Beyond that mill is just a super weak mechanic in EDH. Not only do you have more cards to burn through, but mill usually doesn't affect the boardstate. Just pack your deck with enough disruption and protection to insure that your A plan (Wheels) can be consistently met each game.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
No, it won't. Nekusar and Underworld Dreams don't hurt you. Spiteful Visions is the only one that does, which means it'll hurt your opponents more.
The problem isn't you. I don't use it in many of my decks either. (Decks with three or more colors are questionable. Decks which focus on the graveyard are a no-go.) The problem is that your opponent will, most of the time, use it. You need counterspells for those cases. But Necro hoses your entire game plan, to an extent, because Necro draws aren't legally "draws". (The same can be said for Bob and friends.) You can still force an opponent to draw, or play off of other card draw spells they use (especially since any necro player worth his salt, or her salt, has instant-speed card draw available, should the need arise).
On phasing:
That's what I'm trying to do. Mill is an alternate win-con. So far I could only put 5 counterspells (Mana Drain,Cryptic Command,Force of Will,Counterflux and Counterspell). To reuse my spells I have Reverberate,Kess, Dissident Mage and Reiterate. Instead of using Necropotence I prefer Dream Halls because I won't be discarding my cards into exile.
I put Dream Halls instead of Necropotence. I put so many tutors on my decklist that I expect Chains of Mephistopheles to stop them from drawing. I will build a deck here and put the link in this thread.
On phasing:
I put Gratuitous Violence because I like it more than Furnace of Rath(yeah I'm very averse to self dmg and I also don't like to give edges to my opponents)
Btw, do you guys know if there's tool (software and the likes) that can "measure" the "competitiveness" of a deck? Merry Xmas btw!
Not necessarily. Control decks can't really be goldfished, but they can cut through a combo deck like a hot knife through butter.
On phasing: