This feels too narrow for my tastes, but maybe that's because my meta is a little bit slower and more battle-cruisery. I imagine its power is directly proportional to the power of your meta; for me countering an equip activation or fetchland or something isn't worth the deck slot. MaybeI am being unfair and should try it out though - could be that, like Split Second cards, I will be surprised at how often it is relevant.
Just think of every etb trigger. Imagine the Craterhoof player's reaction.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
This feels too narrow for my tastes, but maybe that's because my meta is a little bit slower and more battle-cruisery. I imagine its power is directly proportional to the power of your meta; for me countering an equip activation or fetchland or something isn't worth the deck slot. MaybeI am being unfair and should try it out though - could be that, like Split Second cards, I will be surprised at how often it is relevant.
Just think of every etb trigger. Imagine the Craterhoof player's reaction.
Sure, but I'd rather run Counterspell/Arcane Denial (insert counters here) and stop ol' Cratey from entering the battlefield at all. I generally would prefer to pay a little more to stop a more wide variety of threats, with 2 or 3 mana being the sweet spot. Granted this stops opponents who cheat Craterhoof in, and gets past any cruel folks running Prowling Serpopard but even so.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I feel like I'd rather play something with more versatility, like Disallow. Of course, Disallow is a lot of mana in a competitive playgroup, but I think it's serviceable most of the time otherwise.
This feels too narrow for my tastes, but maybe that's because my meta is a little bit slower and more battle-cruisery. I imagine its power is directly proportional to the power of your meta; for me countering an equip activation or fetchland or something isn't worth the deck slot. MaybeI am being unfair and should try it out though - could be that, like Split Second cards, I will be surprised at how often it is relevant.
Just think of every etb trigger. Imagine the Craterhoof player's reaction.
Sure, but I'd rather run Counterspell/Arcane Denial (insert counters here) and stop ol' Cratey from entering the battlefield at all. I generally would prefer to pay a little more to stop a more wide variety of threats, with 2 or 3 mana being the sweet spot. Granted this stops opponents who cheat Craterhoof in, and gets past any cruel folks running Prowling Serpopard but even so.
Don't think of it as a counter spell at a discount, think of it as a unique effect that hoses a particular set of (occasionally game ending) effects, and because of how important etb triggers are it has broader applicability than is apparent at first glance.
For more casual groups, I still like it, of only because it lets you be political. Basically, it lets you let the Shriekmaw resolves and see what creature is getting killed before countering it. Since you are really only countering the maw, or gearhulk, or other 187, because of the kill effect, you don't mind leaving the critter behind, and if it targets an opponents creature then you don't have to use it and save it for something else. Same with mindslaver. You don't want to get hit with it, but you might be fine with it hitting an opponent.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Oh yeah, definitely diggin' the Stifle. I need to get that and a Disallow, but I'm not sure if I want those to join Trickbind in my Niv deck. On a side note, props to hyalapterouslemur about Bind...I might see about putting that in Sisay for lulz.
Most of the time I use stifle-type effects is when someone's popping a planeswalker; they still remove counters(yeah, you could use it on + abilities, but I don't think that would have the effect you want, heh) and get nothing. I've literally let people get their PWs to ult range, and then, NOPE! Pulled the same shenanigan on someone who decided to O-Stone the board, which extends it to O-ring and its ilk...
To those who claim it to be narrow, trust me...it's anything but. It's truly amazing, if you take a second look, at how many things depend on abilities, activated or triggered. When you figure that out, you will embrace the Stifle*.
*: You may or may not embrace the Stifle if you hate blue. Some restrictions apply.
I agree with this assessment. In Legacy it matters that it costs one mana when you're using it as mana denial, but for trying to stop some nasty combo I'd rather have the split second. And Disallow's flexibility is of course great.
Stifle (and similar effects) seem to get the most praise in more competitive contexts where you can blow someone out of their fetchland, but you'd be hard pressed to find an opponent you can't blow out with this card.
I disagree. Despite activated and triggered abilities being everywhere, there's not a lot of them that you want to counter with a oneshot spell in a multiplayer setting. Stifling a fetchland in the early turns is so much more unnecessary and pointless than destroying a Sol Ring or Mana Crypt, and later on it can really feel like a dead weight card, unless your opponent spent a lot of cards and/or mana on an activated or triggered ability, I'd be tempted to call it very narrow, but maybe worth for a Lord of Tresserhorn deck. More worth it in playgroups that like to storm off, as you can counter the Storm trigger, pretty nice.
Its an effect I want access to, but stifle itself seems just too narrow, despite not actually being that narrow in practice. I feel like you need to have a meta where everyone is a combo deck to want to run it.
Man its a confusing card to explain why it doesn't feel as good to use as I expected it to.
So it actually hits a great many things, but I just feel like most decks have soooo many triggers so many activated abilities that stopping one just seems inconsequential, unless the power of those things is extremely high.
It is also pretty bad when you are behind in a game, just seems to stall your opponent rather than flip it into your favour the way the best EDH cards do.
I feel like counterspells are mostly better, except when it comes to lands, but unless you can be sure you'll be ahead when you use it to prevent someone overpowering you, they'll just use it again the next turn.
So I'd play it only in a very tempo deck that comes out swinging hard and wants to stay that way and in heavy combo metas (that rely on triggered or activated abilities).
I think Bind and squelch are nice in that they can-trip so you can just use them on anything and replace themselves and not get stuck in your hand waiting for the best target. I have definitely seen trickbind but again needs to be a heavy combo meta to be good.
And I like Nimble Obstructionist because its a bird and I can play it in Deveri and not lose bird and creature counts and still interact, it can-trips, can't be countered (except by stifle) and bird wizards are cool.
In the end I traded my high value stifle for a great many cards the sum of which was better in commander than a single stifle.
In the end I traded my high value stifle for a great many cards the sum of which was better in commander than a single stifle.
High value? Isn't it like $4?
I mean, I get budgets but calling $4 "high value" seems excessively budget.
It's definitely the kind of card (like all answers, really) that requires good threat assessment to get good value out of. Those who throw it out whenever they see a decent ability are sure to find it underwhelming. As a silver bullet that's easy to keep up, though, it's a rock solid card for the judicious control player.
I really should be trying to fit it in a deck or two. I've got a couple of Trickbinds in decks because the split second and until end of turn parts are so strong, but the fact that it's only U is powerful too. It's just very hard making room in the 99, a problem I think everyone has.
As I finish my Mairsil the Pretender list, ya'll have convinced me to slot this in. "Narrow silver bullets" is a thing I can be behind when my commander is a one-card combo and kill engine, so we'll see if this card which has sat in my trade binder since I pulled it in a random Scourge pack, lives up to its hype.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
It has been a very rare game that I have Stifle in hand and don't find a very good use for it. Yes, there have been times I wished I had Counterspell available instead, but that is true of practically every card one might play - there is always a chance that some other card would be better at that moment. Disallow is better, as it gives you more options, but it is sometimes harder to keep three mana available than it is to keep one mana on hand.
Dire Undercurrents is one of those enchantments I feel need to be destroyed on sight. The discard part is terrifying, like Aura Shards for your hand, and in the meantime the controller is drawing a billion cards. Also, "combos with Locust God" might be the new "combos with ghave."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Dire Undercurrent is a terrifying thought combined with the Locust God. I've never seen this one at a table or at least I can't remember seeing it. I like it, you can play politics with it and pass some cards around or just be greedy and keep all the cards. The discard can be instant speed of you have some creatures that can come in at instant speed. The CMC is a bit expensive but the value more than makes up for it. If you are staying in only 2 colors the hybrid makes it super easy to cast.
Dire Undercurrents is one of those enchantments I feel need to be destroyed on sight. The discard part is terrifying, like Aura Shards for your hand, and in the meantime the controller is drawing a billion cards. Also, "combos with Locust God" might be the new "combos with ghave."
Quite deadly with Oona, every Faerie made becomes discard/draw, and with Vela your ninjas would create even more value.
I play it in Oona, where it is obviously dangerous. It's good enough to potentially slot in elsewhere, but I've never found it quite right for any other deck, as 5 cmc is a very competitive spot in the mana curves for most of my decks.
Fits well in sygg. I run him as U/B weenie aggro, so this is near the top of the curve and I have enough cheap creatures that I can often get two triggers the turn after it hits the board, or if it comes down when I have 7 mana one trigger the turn it hits then two or 3 next turn.
Yea, you really want to be in UB only and reliably make a bunch of creatures. Other people have mentioned commanders that provide that all from the and zone, but UB is surprisingly deep in good cheap critters, and obviously in ways to keep them coming
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Dire Undercurrents is one of those enchantments I feel need to be destroyed on sight. The discard part is terrifying, like Aura Shards for your hand, and in the meantime the controller is drawing a billion cards. Also, "combos with Locust God" might be the new "combos with ghave."
You can also use a lot of other black and blue token generators. I'm fond of Chasm Skulker.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Just think of every etb trigger. Imagine the Craterhoof player's reaction.
Sure, but I'd rather run Counterspell/Arcane Denial (insert counters here) and stop ol' Cratey from entering the battlefield at all. I generally would prefer to pay a little more to stop a more wide variety of threats, with 2 or 3 mana being the sweet spot. Granted this stops opponents who cheat Craterhoof in, and gets past any cruel folks running Prowling Serpopard but even so.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Hosing Planeswalkers is also very good
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
I use Disallow first and would use Trickbind second.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Don't think of it as a counter spell at a discount, think of it as a unique effect that hoses a particular set of (occasionally game ending) effects, and because of how important etb triggers are it has broader applicability than is apparent at first glance.
For more casual groups, I still like it, of only because it lets you be political. Basically, it lets you let the Shriekmaw resolves and see what creature is getting killed before countering it. Since you are really only countering the maw, or gearhulk, or other 187, because of the kill effect, you don't mind leaving the critter behind, and if it targets an opponents creature then you don't have to use it and save it for something else. Same with mindslaver. You don't want to get hit with it, but you might be fine with it hitting an opponent.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Most of the time I use stifle-type effects is when someone's popping a planeswalker; they still remove counters(yeah, you could use it on + abilities, but I don't think that would have the effect you want, heh) and get nothing. I've literally let people get their PWs to ult range, and then, NOPE! Pulled the same shenanigan on someone who decided to O-Stone the board, which extends it to O-ring and its ilk...
To those who claim it to be narrow, trust me...it's anything but. It's truly amazing, if you take a second look, at how many things depend on abilities, activated or triggered. When you figure that out, you will embrace the Stifle*.
*: You may or may not embrace the Stifle if you hate blue. Some restrictions apply.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
I disagree. Despite activated and triggered abilities being everywhere, there's not a lot of them that you want to counter with a oneshot spell in a multiplayer setting. Stifling a fetchland in the early turns is so much more unnecessary and pointless than destroying a Sol Ring or Mana Crypt, and later on it can really feel like a dead weight card, unless your opponent spent a lot of cards and/or mana on an activated or triggered ability, I'd be tempted to call it very narrow, but maybe worth for a Lord of Tresserhorn deck. More worth it in playgroups that like to storm off, as you can counter the Storm trigger, pretty nice.
Its an effect I want access to, but stifle itself seems just too narrow, despite not actually being that narrow in practice. I feel like you need to have a meta where everyone is a combo deck to want to run it.
Man its a confusing card to explain why it doesn't feel as good to use as I expected it to.
So it actually hits a great many things, but I just feel like most decks have soooo many triggers so many activated abilities that stopping one just seems inconsequential, unless the power of those things is extremely high.
It is also pretty bad when you are behind in a game, just seems to stall your opponent rather than flip it into your favour the way the best EDH cards do.
I feel like counterspells are mostly better, except when it comes to lands, but unless you can be sure you'll be ahead when you use it to prevent someone overpowering you, they'll just use it again the next turn.
So I'd play it only in a very tempo deck that comes out swinging hard and wants to stay that way and in heavy combo metas (that rely on triggered or activated abilities).
I think Bind and squelch are nice in that they can-trip so you can just use them on anything and replace themselves and not get stuck in your hand waiting for the best target. I have definitely seen trickbind but again needs to be a heavy combo meta to be good.
And I like Nimble Obstructionist because its a bird and I can play it in Deveri and not lose bird and creature counts and still interact, it can-trips, can't be countered (except by stifle) and bird wizards are cool.
In the end I traded my high value stifle for a great many cards the sum of which was better in commander than a single stifle.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I mean, I get budgets but calling $4 "high value" seems excessively budget.
It's definitely the kind of card (like all answers, really) that requires good threat assessment to get good value out of. Those who throw it out whenever they see a decent ability are sure to find it underwhelming. As a silver bullet that's easy to keep up, though, it's a rock solid card for the judicious control player.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
The invocation is significantly more pricy. Scourge foils even more so.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Dire Undercurrents is one of those enchantments I feel need to be destroyed on sight. The discard part is terrifying, like Aura Shards for your hand, and in the meantime the controller is drawing a billion cards. Also, "combos with Locust God" might be the new "combos with ghave."
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
Quite deadly with Oona, every Faerie made becomes discard/draw, and with Vela your ninjas would create even more value.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Yea, you really want to be in UB only and reliably make a bunch of creatures. Other people have mentioned commanders that provide that all from the and zone, but UB is surprisingly deep in good cheap critters, and obviously in ways to keep them coming
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Neither can use it. Though Oona, Queen of the Fae can.
Actually, Breya, Etherium Shaper can as well. Blink into an Ancestral Recall and one opponent has to discard a card?
You can also use a lot of other black and blue token generators. I'm fond of Chasm Skulker.
On phasing: