I LOVED Guiltfeeder in my early days of kitchen table magic. My older brother and I used to play 60-card constructed, we built all kinds of ridiculous, and often terrible, decks. But we each had a few decks that we were proud of, and the deck I was most proud of was a UB discard-themed deck, featuring Hypnotic Specter, Mind Twist, Hymn to Tourach, I think I even used Mesmeric Fiend. It was such a fun deck, and Guiltfeeder was very very strong.
In EDH, this has less appeal, but if included in a dedicated style of list, this can do a lot of work.
Playing black and not playing Leyline of the Void and/or Bojuka Bog because they could potentially ruin your crappily evasive X/4 beater (if you can't evade Wurmcoil Engine what are you doing with your life, man?) just seems like setting yourself up to have a bad time. Any time this thing could potentially crack in for enough damage to justify it, you've given your opponent a lot of graveyard advantage.
Well, it's 0/4, so if you're not running your Doran as a Voltron deck, it gets around Ensnaring Bridge and Meekstone, and has a nice synergy with Skeleton Key. Though you really should be hating that graveyard out in a much more concrete manner (such as exiling it or playing things like Grafdigger's Cage).
6/10 It's a good effort, and has some decent synergies, but it's also antagonistic with all other graveyard hate (other than, I guess, Bloodchief Ascension).
Potential in Doran or Nekusar, maybe?
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Its a good card, my issue is that outside of runnin a deck jam packed with creatures who give me extra land drops / turn I have a hard time justifying playing it. It plays great into a few decks but I rarely run it outside of some sort of dedicated lands / dredge style of deck.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Now its not a green staple but its a graveyard deck staple (you just have to be using green)
There is a lot you can do with it even if you aren't abusing it. Its the only card with dredge in my glissa, the traitor deck. because buying back fetch and utility lands is just too useful. I don't run a lot of instants, so I like having interaction from my lands
Ran this alongside Warp World in Hazezon Tamar, which was a deck exclusively devoted to ramping like mad and then making a million tokens. It usually turned out well for me. This usually goes over a little better than Warp World because it doesn't punish people playing permanent light decks and the self exile means it's less likely to happen multiple times of the course of the game. Fun card all around.
I haven't tried this in my Hazezon Tamar deck, it does seem better than Warp World. Not having free creatures/artifact/enchantment coming in makes sure Hazezon Tamar comes out top.
My favorite green card in the game. Dredge is super cool even if it's broken, and repeatable card advantage that only gets lands always feels great, since it lets you keep developing consistently without raising too many eyebrows. Works great with fetches and cycling lands. Now if only it could get back the flip lands...
Love playing it with cycle lands. Perfect card for Karador, Ghost Chieftain, since you basically draw 3 every time you dredge and will still hit all of your land drops (which you don't do with other dredgers).
I run Loam in most green decks I play. It's notably stronger in Borborygmos Enraged and graveyard-centric decks, but its also a fairly strong card at its core. It used to be just fetches, Krosan Verge and cycling lands that let you grind card advantage with it, but Blighted Woodland and Myriad Landscape are fairly new additions to "things I want to loam in every turn." We also have new cycling lands. Using Loam with Strip Mine and Wasteland is a very deckslot-light way to pressure your opponent's manabase of increasingly devastating activated abilities from the back row, something everyone needs to consider when building an interactive deck.
I have a hard time resisting the urge to add this to any green deck with a fair amount of Cycling/Fetchlands because #value, and have someone ended up with 5 copies. Ultimately, however, it ends up being cut for better synergy except in the Gitrog Monster, where this card is far and away the best card in my 99 and the card I most hope to draw or mill into early.
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Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Its a good card, my issue is that outside of runnin a deck jam packed with creatures who give me extra land drops / turn I have a hard time justifying playing it.
You don't need to have extra land drops to make it useful. Cycling lands, discard outlets, and reanimation are all options as well, and you can use it to just never miss a land drop.
Even in an enemy 2 colour deck, you have access to 7 cycling lands (Blasted Landscape plus the Onslaught, Urza's Saga and Hour of Devastation cycles on mono-coloured ones) which can turn this into a pretty damn good draw engine for slower decks, even if you're not graveyard centric. If you are graveyard centric and/or have particular interactions with lands, this is just incredibly powerful
I love red Kamahl. I'll be frank, I think the green version is overrated. They get into a fight, Pit Fighter wins every time. Especially if they're fighting in a pit. Lightning Bolt every turn is actually really oppressive, especially considering the low toughness of many of the most offensive generals in the format, and the haste means that it never does nothing. The crippling weakness here is either the mana cost or the toughness, but it's edh, so you like lots of mana and nobody is gonna Gut Shot it. I have played this card in many decks and always enjoyed it.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Kamahl is THE payoff to barbarian tribal, because he's a reasonable body that does something no matter what. I have a hard time justifying him over Inferno Titan, Balefire Dragon, Steel Hellkite, and other big fatties otherwise. I have a minor legends matter theme to my Daretti deck (superfriends and all), but Kamahl didn't make the cut over Hellkite or Wurmcoil for the six slot. He's also not in Rakdos despite being a solid enabler and payoff, because the six slot is so crowded.
Basically, if you aren't getting value out of his typing or playing him for the nostalgia, I feel like he's far too fair. Even with the recent move to smaller utility 'mmanders though, I feel like he doesn't hi that much. He hits eight of the top ten commanders of all time (although in practice, probably more like seven as he's unlikely to ever get a crack at Animar before he goes to 4/4, and Sidisi and Derevi don't care so much about his bolts). For flavors of the month he's down to four out of twenty.
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I love red Kamahl. I'll be frank, I think the green version is overrated. They get into a fight, Pit Fighter wins every time. Especially if they're fighting in a pit. Lightning Bolt every turn is actually really oppressive, especially considering the low toughness of many of the most offensive generals in the format, and the haste means that it never does nothing. The crippling weakness here is either the mana cost or the toughness, but it's edh, so you like lots of mana and nobody is gonna Gut Shot it. I have played this card in many decks and always enjoyed it.
In a stunning twist, I disagree and think the green version is better. That being said, as tstorm says, this never does nothing, and at minimum a lightning bolt a turn is not nothing.
I love red Kamahl. I'll be frank, I think the green version is overrated. They get into a fight, Pit Fighter wins every time. Especially if they're fighting in a pit. Lightning Bolt every turn is actually really oppressive, especially considering the low toughness of many of the most offensive generals in the format, and the haste means that it never does nothing. The crippling weakness here is either the mana cost or the toughness, but it's edh, so you like lots of mana and nobody is gonna Gut Shot it. I have played this card in many decks and always enjoyed it.
In a stunning twist, I disagree and think the green version is better. That being said, as tstorm says, this never does nothing, and at minimum a lightning bolt a turn is not nothing.
I would agree Fist of Krosa is a bit overrated, as a fragile card that costs a billion mana to do anything compared to the immediate lethalness of Craterhoof Behemoth and the long-term efficiency of Pathbreaker Ibex and the tribal power of Ezuri, Renegade Leader (as far as overruns in a can go). But he's absolutely more applicable than Pit Fighter, as I can see running Fist of Krosa in any deck that expects to generate a ton of mana and is looking for redundancy in their finishers (and of course, he wombo-combos with Elesh Norn in Captain Sisay decks). They are both niche cards, but Fist of Krosa has a few more niches and if I was just building a casual Gruul beatdown deck (say Ruric Thar leading 60 creatures.dec), I'd be playing Fist over Pit every time.
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Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
It's actually a pretty easy justification: those things have to attack to do the work. Even disregarding the risk that they die in combat, it's still pretty comparable to being sorcery speed. Sure, their effects are more powerful for roughly the same cost, but you lose out on instant speed, and that's a big deal for removal when you have more than one opponent. Inferno Titan is great, but Inferno Titan isn't really removal, it really can't rattlesnake, and actually can often put you in a politically weak position where you want to hurt the strongest player at the table but have to swing at someone weaker, effectively a teammate, in order to use the damage trigger while keeping the titan.
Basically, you play Inferno Titan to kill people, and taking out their creatures is just a bonus. You play Kamahl to pick apart people's boards, and the ability to go face is the extra. The cards aren't the same slot, so there's no need for Kamahl to be better, it's filling a different role. I play Kamahl more like I play Attrition than as a finisher.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
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It got cut for several reasons. When i started off playing her i wanted to fill the yard asap, saccing a lot and blah. But i realized that's an aweful plan as my board state would basically be Alesha, Who Smiles at Death + 1 creature. Coming to that conclusion i had to keep CMC and hard casting in mind. And that is where Guiltfeeder fell short. For that much mana you can get both better (e.g. Master of Cruelties, Siege-Gang Commander, Karmic Guide, Blinding Angel, Raving Dead, ...) and more flavorful (Lim-Dûl's Paladin, Goblin Assassin, Mindclaw Shaman, Vulshok Battlemaster) stuff.
I really like the card a lot, but i might be too concerned about CMC to ever find a place for it. It's a shame, really.
In EDH, this has less appeal, but if included in a dedicated style of list, this can do a lot of work.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears6/10 It's a good effort, and has some decent synergies, but it's also antagonistic with all other graveyard hate (other than, I guess, Bloodchief Ascension).
Potential in Doran or Nekusar, maybe?
On phasing:
Hey look, a good card.
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[Modern] Allies
My second favorite Magic card. The only downside is that you can only run one copy.
As it turns out, good cards are less interesting to discuss than bad ones.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsThere is a lot you can do with it even if you aren't abusing it. Its the only card with dredge in my glissa, the traitor deck. because buying back fetch and utility lands is just too useful. I don't run a lot of instants, so I like having interaction from my lands
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I haven't tried this in my Hazezon Tamar deck, it does seem better than Warp World. Not having free creatures/artifact/enchantment coming in makes sure Hazezon Tamar comes out top.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I love red Kamahl. I'll be frank, I think the green version is overrated. They get into a fight, Pit Fighter wins every time. Especially if they're fighting in a pit. Lightning Bolt every turn is actually really oppressive, especially considering the low toughness of many of the most offensive generals in the format, and the haste means that it never does nothing. The crippling weakness here is either the mana cost or the toughness, but it's edh, so you like lots of mana and nobody is gonna Gut Shot it. I have played this card in many decks and always enjoyed it.
Basically, if you aren't getting value out of his typing or playing him for the nostalgia, I feel like he's far too fair. Even with the recent move to smaller utility 'mmanders though, I feel like he doesn't hi that much. He hits eight of the top ten commanders of all time (although in practice, probably more like seven as he's unlikely to ever get a crack at Animar before he goes to 4/4, and Sidisi and Derevi don't care so much about his bolts). For flavors of the month he's down to four out of twenty.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I would agree Fist of Krosa is a bit overrated, as a fragile card that costs a billion mana to do anything compared to the immediate lethalness of Craterhoof Behemoth and the long-term efficiency of Pathbreaker Ibex and the tribal power of Ezuri, Renegade Leader (as far as overruns in a can go). But he's absolutely more applicable than Pit Fighter, as I can see running Fist of Krosa in any deck that expects to generate a ton of mana and is looking for redundancy in their finishers (and of course, he wombo-combos with Elesh Norn in Captain Sisay decks). They are both niche cards, but Fist of Krosa has a few more niches and if I was just building a casual Gruul beatdown deck (say Ruric Thar leading 60 creatures.dec), I'd be playing Fist over Pit every time.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I have one deck with gut shot.
I have another deck that plays Night of Souls' Betrayal.
Then there are things like Pestilence (in two of my decks).
It's funny seeing the reactions, because I've never liked this card. Why is he so fragile?
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
It's actually a pretty easy justification: those things have to attack to do the work. Even disregarding the risk that they die in combat, it's still pretty comparable to being sorcery speed. Sure, their effects are more powerful for roughly the same cost, but you lose out on instant speed, and that's a big deal for removal when you have more than one opponent. Inferno Titan is great, but Inferno Titan isn't really removal, it really can't rattlesnake, and actually can often put you in a politically weak position where you want to hurt the strongest player at the table but have to swing at someone weaker, effectively a teammate, in order to use the damage trigger while keeping the titan.
Basically, you play Inferno Titan to kill people, and taking out their creatures is just a bonus. You play Kamahl to pick apart people's boards, and the ability to go face is the extra. The cards aren't the same slot, so there's no need for Kamahl to be better, it's filling a different role. I play Kamahl more like I play Attrition than as a finisher.