am i the only one who puts grave titan as the worst of the titans? it gives you vanilla beaters.
sun is probably one of the better ones, since it's reanimation over and over again, and it does lands and other nifty things. inferno is very useful 'cuz it effectively removes opposing mana dorks and other utility things. It's sneakily one of the better things you can do without most players seeing it. frost is ok, but unless there's a single threatening thing that needs to be untapped to be scary, i don't really see it doing too much work grave gives you some sac fodder. I think there are more efficient ways to do this, and are probably better vanilla beaters around at that cost. I mean sure it can overwhelm your opponent if they just leave it on the field, but i mean, seriously. we're in a 40-life, multiplayer format. It's gonna take a while.
Sun Titan - it really doesn't take much to see the combo potential of this guy. Being able to filter your deck with Evolving Wilds/Terramorphic Expanse, even at one per turn, is pretty helpful, as would be recovering dorks or other cheapies after a wrath.
Grave Titan - Sac and token decks like this guy. He may not create an army on demand like a kicked rite, but two beaters per swing/entry is not insignificant, particularly how many token shenanigans are available in EDH.
Inferno Titan - never thought about the deatchtouching, so that bumps him up in my estimation. Still pretty limited in his usage/enabling IMO, but he burns stuff and speeds the game along if need be.
Frost Titan - as said, he's much more niche than the other big guys. I'd say of all the titans, Frosty is the most meta-dependent, save for being cloned(whereas the others are scary with or without clones). He can grief decks with a lynchpin, which is good I suppose, but I don't see many targeted removals in my meta, so the pseudo-hexproof is also pointless to me.
I think what ranks Frosty below the others is that he's more meta-dependent, more than anything. Again, as said, all the titans are good, but I do agree that Frost is on the low end.
Banning Primeval basically meant I was taking posts and trons out of my decks if they used any colored mana. Beyond that, getting any utility land or any land in all your colors is always good, even if it ETB tapped. Or just any big mana land. And you get two? So, yeah, Primeval has to be at the top.
Grave is a bit weird. At a bare minimum, you're getting two 2/2s every turn. Seems minor, and on its own, it is, but with Warstorm Surge, you get two shocks and a murder (which can also be 6 to any player or planeswalker) when Grave enters, and another two shocks with each attack. With Aura Shards, that's three disenchants upon entering, two more with each attack. With Purphoros, God of the Forge, six damage to everyone else upon entering, four when attacking. These bodies can be used for sac fuel as well, meaning death triggers matter too. Oh, did I mention Panharmonicon? It's not as ridic as anything that makes four or more tokens upon entering with Purph and Panharmonicon (which is basically, yeah)
Inferno's easy to break. Just give it deathtouch or infect.
That brings us to Frost. Frost is the weakest, not offering card advantage of any sort every turn. It just is a tapper. Good, and it was annoying in Standard, but not as powerful as the others.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I don't know if this is very effective in this format for answering other people's spells, but I'd be aiming it at my own spells if I played it anyway.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I don't know if this is very effective in this format for answering other people's spells, but I'd be aiming it at my own spells if I played it anyway.
That’s the beauty of this spell, it’s versatility. I run it in Dralnu, and it’s been really solid. Imagine stealing someone’s cyclonic rift or tooth and nail. Sure they can recast but you’ve got the momentum now.
Extra versatile in Kess, dissident mage
At worst you can use it and Kess ability to cast the same spell 5 times
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
As mentioned, the versatility of this spell is what gives it such power. Imagine someone dumping all of their mana into a game ending Exsanguinate, Torment of Hailfire, Villainous Wealth or any other big X spell, and then you steal the glory with this. At worst, it can buy you and maybe the table a turn to deal with whatever your opponent was trying to do which can completely change the outcome of a game. I'm a fan.
It's very good. There's not much more to say about it than that, i guess.
Disclaimer: i don't actually use it in EDH; only in legacy. But its range goes from great to backbreakingly good. I can only imagine this being just as good here.
Sounds like I'd rather use it in my own spells than my opponent's but okay.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
If there's a time I'd use this on an opponent's spell, it would be something they tapped out for with intentions to win on the spot like Tooth and Nail, Time Stretch, and Boundless Realms. But yeah it's more for cheating self exile clauses in most cases, meaning it has the potential to be profoundly annoying. Just as Narset would like it apparently going by the cards that represent her.
If there's a time I'd use this on an opponent's spell, it would be something they tapped out for with intentions to win on the spot like Tooth and Nail, Time Stretch, and Boundless Realms. But yeah it's more for cheating self exile clauses in most cases, meaning it has the potential to be profoundly annoying. Just as Narset would like it apparently going by the cards that represent her.
If there's a time I'd use this on an opponent's spell, it would be something they tapped out for with intentions to win on the spot like Tooth and Nail, Time Stretch, and Boundless Realms. But yeah it's more for cheating self exile clauses in most cases, meaning it has the potential to be profoundly annoying. Just as Narset would like it apparently going by the cards that represent her.
A rare removal spell that takes 2 creatures off the table and still looks this bad is an impressive feat.
Well, it's not card advantage (unless you play it against a token) and while I like the "superhero Sophie's choice" feel of it (For those not familiar, supervillains have a habit of abducting two people close to the hero, and setting it up so the hero can only save one.) I feel that giving opponents choices on a spell (rather than a triggered ability) is not what I want to do at four mana.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I mean, a lot of those removal spells were good in limited. The invasion block was experimenting as the first set that was primarily multicolored cards. The invasion block also cards like terminate and vindicate.
It’s not really fair to compare Invasion block cards to other multicolored cards that it paved the way for, especially in a multiplayer format. Rhystic Study was printed in the set before as a common, so that tells you how much they were thinking about multiplayer in set design.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
sun is probably one of the better ones, since it's reanimation over and over again, and it does lands and other nifty things.
inferno is very useful 'cuz it effectively removes opposing mana dorks and other utility things. It's sneakily one of the better things you can do without most players seeing it.
frost is ok, but unless there's a single threatening thing that needs to be untapped to be scary, i don't really see it doing too much work
grave gives you some sac fodder. I think there are more efficient ways to do this, and are probably better vanilla beaters around at that cost. I mean sure it can overwhelm your opponent if they just leave it on the field, but i mean, seriously. we're in a 40-life, multiplayer format. It's gonna take a while.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Sun Titan - it really doesn't take much to see the combo potential of this guy. Being able to filter your deck with Evolving Wilds/Terramorphic Expanse, even at one per turn, is pretty helpful, as would be recovering dorks or other cheapies after a wrath.
Grave Titan - Sac and token decks like this guy. He may not create an army on demand like a kicked rite, but two beaters per swing/entry is not insignificant, particularly how many token shenanigans are available in EDH.
Inferno Titan - never thought about the deatchtouching, so that bumps him up in my estimation. Still pretty limited in his usage/enabling IMO, but he burns stuff and speeds the game along if need be.
Frost Titan - as said, he's much more niche than the other big guys. I'd say of all the titans, Frosty is the most meta-dependent, save for being cloned(whereas the others are scary with or without clones). He can grief decks with a lynchpin, which is good I suppose, but I don't see many targeted removals in my meta, so the pseudo-hexproof is also pointless to me.
I think what ranks Frosty below the others is that he's more meta-dependent, more than anything. Again, as said, all the titans are good, but I do agree that Frost is on the low end.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
Banning Primeval basically meant I was taking posts and trons out of my decks if they used any colored mana. Beyond that, getting any utility land or any land in all your colors is always good, even if it ETB tapped. Or just any big mana land. And you get two? So, yeah, Primeval has to be at the top.
Sun is pretty easy to understand. Recurring any permanent type, so long as its CMC < 3. So, at a bare minimum, this means things like Strip Mine and friends, fetches, Buried Ruin, and Glacial Chasm (which conveniently breaks its pseudosymmetry). But it also means you can get things like Seal of Doom, Seal of Cleansing, Moriok Replica, Spore Frog, Nihil Spellbomb, and Spiketail Hatchling.
Grave is a bit weird. At a bare minimum, you're getting two 2/2s every turn. Seems minor, and on its own, it is, but with Warstorm Surge, you get two shocks and a murder (which can also be 6 to any player or planeswalker) when Grave enters, and another two shocks with each attack. With Aura Shards, that's three disenchants upon entering, two more with each attack. With Purphoros, God of the Forge, six damage to everyone else upon entering, four when attacking. These bodies can be used for sac fuel as well, meaning death triggers matter too. Oh, did I mention Panharmonicon? It's not as ridic as anything that makes four or more tokens upon entering with Purph and Panharmonicon (which is basically, yeah)
Inferno's easy to break. Just give it deathtouch or infect.
That brings us to Frost. Frost is the weakest, not offering card advantage of any sort every turn. It just is a tapper. Good, and it was annoying in Standard, but not as powerful as the others.
On phasing:
I don't know if this is very effective in this format for answering other people's spells, but I'd be aiming it at my own spells if I played it anyway.
That’s the beauty of this spell, it’s versatility. I run it in Dralnu, and it’s been really solid. Imagine stealing someone’s cyclonic rift or tooth and nail. Sure they can recast but you’ve got the momentum now.
At worst you can use it and Kess ability to cast the same spell 5 times
Watched this hit an Expropriate three times in one game coming from a Kess deck. Needless to say my memories of it are not fond.........
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Disclaimer: i don't actually use it in EDH; only in legacy. But its range goes from great to backbreakingly good. I can only imagine this being just as good here.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
On phasing:
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
A rare removal spell that takes 2 creatures off the table and still looks this bad is an impressive feat.
Torment of Hailfire comes to mind...........
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Or the ever ubiquitous Exsanguinate.
In fact, I think I would DESTROY ALMOST EVERYTHING.
Well, it's not card advantage (unless you play it against a token) and while I like the "superhero Sophie's choice" feel of it (For those not familiar, supervillains have a habit of abducting two people close to the hero, and setting it up so the hero can only save one.) I feel that giving opponents choices on a spell (rather than a triggered ability) is not what I want to do at four mana.
Funny thing is, this isn't the only underwhelming "two for one" removal in Invasion block. Death Mutation and Dead Ringers both exist, after all. Desolation Angel and Desolation Giant look like crap in the era of blink spells.
On phasing:
It’s not really fair to compare Invasion block cards to other multicolored cards that it paved the way for, especially in a multiplayer format. Rhystic Study was printed in the set before as a common, so that tells you how much they were thinking about multiplayer in set design.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
KInda like fateseal 4. Alternatively, you can Bamboozle your Shenanigans into the graveyard.
Thud
Kaboom!
Shenanigans
Bamboozle
It's looking like an Izzet build, so as a bonus you could definitely fit Grozoth in there, and Vizzerdrix if you're desperate