I also feel tutors get a bad rap - with great power comes great responsibility, and my wife at least can tutor for utility or fun instead of insta-kill comboes. I don't have that restraint, but she does. This is usually just Cabal Coffers #2 and that's still insane. And of course, if you aren't interested in fair play, this makes any infinite combo literally twice as likely to go off (since it's now a 1/50 chance of drawing a piece, instead of a 1/99).
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I also feel tutors get a bad rap - with great power comes great responsibility, and my wife at least can tutor for utility or fun instead of insta-kill comboes. I don't have that restraint, but she does. This is usually just Cabal Coffers #2 and that's still insane. And of course, if you aren't interested in fair play, this makes any infinite combo literally twice as likely to go off (since it's now a 1/50 chance of drawing a piece, instead of a 1/99).
Agree - the more I play them, the more certain I am it depends what you're tutoring for. They're undoubtedly strong, but not ever any stronger than the card/combo you're finding. As much as it can be painful waiting what seems like an eternity for someone to pick what they want, that's the player that's frustrating you. And if you get sick of combos always coming off because of excessive tutors, that's the player again.
It's kind of a weird spot - I'm not a fan of combos or waiting for people to find their stuff when they ought to have a pretty good idea before they cast, but tutors do go a really long way to make sure you get a good game in. No one likes a game where you're mana screwed, draw nothing and play diddly-squat, and they can help with that. Like anything, too much of a good thing is a bad thing, but they're not inherently evil. Except for the Demon on this card, because...he's a demon.
Nothing you could say could tear me away from my DT,
(My DT)
Nothing you could do 'cause I'm stuck like glue to my DT.
(My DT)
I'm sticking to my DT like a stamp to a letter,
Like birds of a feather we stick together,
I'm tellin' you from the start I can't be torn apart from my DT.
With the recent printing the price dipped a lot. Picked up a few copies.
I am not jamming them in all my decks, but some janky decks need the tutor to function.
Funny how this is an amazing card but Grim Tutor is considered weak.
Beyond that, I don’t agree with the assessment that tutors are “only as bad as what you’re tutoring for”. I mean, obviously. You also aren’t “pulling punches” with tutors. You are most certainly grabbing something that is going to benefit you in some way. Board wipe, key answer, a threat, etc. While you aren’t necessarily grabbing a game winner, unless that’s your thing, you are still bypassing the RNGness of the format. I guess my point is, you aren’t grabbing a Counterspell with Blightsteel Colossus on the board. Or, one of the things that really ‘grinds my gears’, you tutor for a bettercounterspell...
However, as said above, some decks just wouldn’t function without the ability to do so. I do encourage players to try the more narrow tutors, avoiding catch all’s like today’s card(like Fierce Empath to grab your fatty instead of Worldly Tutor).
With the recent printing the price dipped a lot. Picked up a few copies.
I am not jamming them in all my decks, but some janky decks need the tutor to function.
Funny how this is an amazing card but Grim Tutor is considered weak.
Lies. Grim is just as good, it's just downplayed by players that haven't bought one. It's been the best $175 I spent on a card this side of imperial recruiter and moat.
I want you all to know, the random button didn't pick the white border version of this, I did.
I still remember (and regret) the day I traded this exact card when I was like 12-13. I don't even remember what for. I was a fool.
Great card, obviously. I'm not a fan off decklists with every single tutor ever printed in them, but if you were going to include just one in your list with black this is a great add.
Way back when, I traded my copies of city of traitors for a shivan dragon.. 'cuz you know, DRAGON!
Now when i was looking into building a mono-red prison deck, the stupid land's like $130!
Anyways, demonic tutor is good. Though more often than not, the first instinct of EDH players with tutors is to tutor for their 'i win' cards, which unfortunately usually doesn't lead to a fun gamestate. It takes a lot of willpower to use tutors (especially unconditional ones) responsibly and in a way that creates fun board states.
Also, i think this is probably within my top 10 most interacted with card on the stack (regardless of whether or not i or someone else played it). Albeit a counter, or a copy, or an exile or whatever.
Anyways, demonic tutor is good. Though more often than not, the first instinct of EDH players with tutors is to tutor for their 'i win' cards, which unfortunately usually doesn't lead to a fun gamestate. It takes a lot of willpower to use tutors (especially unconditional ones) responsibly and in a way that creates fun board states.
If you don't put things in your deck that are unfun, then you won't have to worry about it.
Tutors don't create problems, they just exacerbate them. You could have just drawn whatever unfun card it was naturally, after all. If playing it isn't fun, then don't play it. Pretty simple.
Anyways, demonic tutor is good. Though more often than not, the first instinct of EDH players with tutors is to tutor for their 'i win' cards, which unfortunately usually doesn't lead to a fun gamestate. It takes a lot of willpower to use tutors (especially unconditional ones) responsibly and in a way that creates fun board states.
If you don't put things in your deck that are unfun, then you won't have to worry about it.
Tutors don't create problems, they just exacerbate them. You could have just drawn whatever unfun card it was naturally, after all. If playing it isn't fun, then don't play it. Pretty simple.
I want you all to know, the random button didn't pick the white border version of this, I did.
The working class man's border
Don't give Third Way any ideas.
Anyway, tutors are fine, as long as you don't do so incompetently. If you don't know what card you want, please, refrain from tutoring. You can use it later.
Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Grim Tutor are my favorites, as far as universal tutors go, but I must confess, I don't see why so many people think Imperial Seal is all that great. It (and strictly-worse Cruel Tutor) are sorcery-speed topdecks. If I topdeck, I usually want to draw it right away. Vamp Tutor even has one benefit over Demon and Grim in that I can topdeck for Counterbalance and similar. You don't get either of those with sorcery speed; it's just too slow.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
In what language?
I also feel tutors get a bad rap - with great power comes great responsibility, and my wife at least can tutor for utility or fun instead of insta-kill comboes. I don't have that restraint, but she does. This is usually just Cabal Coffers #2 and that's still insane. And of course, if you aren't interested in fair play, this makes any infinite combo literally twice as likely to go off (since it's now a 1/50 chance of drawing a piece, instead of a 1/99).
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Agree - the more I play them, the more certain I am it depends what you're tutoring for. They're undoubtedly strong, but not ever any stronger than the card/combo you're finding. As much as it can be painful waiting what seems like an eternity for someone to pick what they want, that's the player that's frustrating you. And if you get sick of combos always coming off because of excessive tutors, that's the player again.
It's kind of a weird spot - I'm not a fan of combos or waiting for people to find their stuff when they ought to have a pretty good idea before they cast, but tutors do go a really long way to make sure you get a good game in. No one likes a game where you're mana screwed, draw nothing and play diddly-squat, and they can help with that. Like anything, too much of a good thing is a bad thing, but they're not inherently evil. Except for the Demon on this card, because...he's a demon.
Nothing I can say.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
(My DT)
Nothing you could do 'cause I'm stuck like glue to my DT.
(My DT)
I'm sticking to my DT like a stamp to a letter,
Like birds of a feather we stick together,
I'm tellin' you from the start I can't be torn apart from my DT.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Pauper EDH: ~ Rhox War Monk ~ Scornful Aether-Lich ~ Ashenmoor Gouger ~ Ascended Lawmage ~ Nightscape Battlemage ~ Warden of the Eye ~ Hedge Troll ~ Dinrova Horror ~ Renata
Pauper 60: ~ Caw Blade ~ MonoU Delver ~ MonoW Monk Fish ~
Standard: ~ Boros Knights ~ RDW ~
Pioneer: ~ U BControl ~
Modern: ~ UB Control ~
Legacy/Vintage: ~ MonoU Delver ~
93/94: ~ Erhnamgeddon ~
I am not jamming them in all my decks, but some janky decks need the tutor to function.
Funny how this is an amazing card but Grim Tutor is considered weak.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Beyond that, I don’t agree with the assessment that tutors are “only as bad as what you’re tutoring for”. I mean, obviously. You also aren’t “pulling punches” with tutors. You are most certainly grabbing something that is going to benefit you in some way. Board wipe, key answer, a threat, etc. While you aren’t necessarily grabbing a game winner, unless that’s your thing, you are still bypassing the RNGness of the format. I guess my point is, you aren’t grabbing a Counterspell with Blightsteel Colossus on the board. Or, one of the things that really ‘grinds my gears’, you tutor for a better counterspell...
However, as said above, some decks just wouldn’t function without the ability to do so. I do encourage players to try the more narrow tutors, avoiding catch all’s like today’s card(like Fierce Empath to grab your fatty instead of Worldly Tutor).
Lies. Grim is just as good, it's just downplayed by players that haven't bought one. It's been the best $175 I spent on a card this side of imperial recruiter and moat.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The working class man's border
Way back when, I traded my copies of city of traitors for a shivan dragon.. 'cuz you know, DRAGON!
Now when i was looking into building a mono-red prison deck, the stupid land's like $130!
Anyways, demonic tutor is good. Though more often than not, the first instinct of EDH players with tutors is to tutor for their 'i win' cards, which unfortunately usually doesn't lead to a fun gamestate. It takes a lot of willpower to use tutors (especially unconditional ones) responsibly and in a way that creates fun board states.
Also, i think this is probably within my top 10 most interacted with card on the stack (regardless of whether or not i or someone else played it). Albeit a counter, or a copy, or an exile or whatever.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
This resonates with me as I just finished white border Kaalia.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Tutors don't create problems, they just exacerbate them. You could have just drawn whatever unfun card it was naturally, after all. If playing it isn't fun, then don't play it. Pretty simple.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Wholeheartedly agree.
Don't give Third Way any ideas.
Anyway, tutors are fine, as long as you don't do so incompetently. If you don't know what card you want, please, refrain from tutoring. You can use it later.
Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Grim Tutor are my favorites, as far as universal tutors go, but I must confess, I don't see why so many people think Imperial Seal is all that great. It (and strictly-worse Cruel Tutor) are sorcery-speed topdecks. If I topdeck, I usually want to draw it right away. Vamp Tutor even has one benefit over Demon and Grim in that I can topdeck for Counterbalance and similar. You don't get either of those with sorcery speed; it's just too slow.
On phasing:
If we hit another black card tomorrow, I'll intervene. Nothing's gonna top Yargle.
I for one hail our frog overlords. #HailFROG
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.