There's times when I've had to target one of my own permanents with Decimate in order to be able to use it, or worse, I didn't have a valid enchantment target at all. Being 3 cheaper helps a lot, but Decimate gets worse the more times you cast it, while this remains the same every time.
Titanic is an overrun with extra bells and whistles.
Brilliant is a super FoF (don't kid yourself, casting on average 2+ spells for free is ridiculously strong).
Cruel is still a 7 for 1 with a 10 point swing.
Then we come to violent. It's a triple vindicate on one card, which makes your 7 mana a steal vs the 9 it would take to cast vindicate three times. I think people are getting a bit spoiled with the expectation of wanting every card to be an Expropriate, For 7cmc, these are still terrific value.
Titanic is an overrun with extra bells and whistles.
Brilliant is a super FoF (don't kid yourself, casting on average 2+ spells for free is ridiculously strong).
Cruel is still a 7 for 1 with a 10 point swing.
Then we come to violent. It's a triple vindicate on one card, which makes your 7 mana a steal vs the 9 it would take to cast vindicate three times. I think people are getting a bit spoiled with the expectation of wanting every card to be an Expropriate, For 7cmc, these are still terrific value.
You're not wrong on Titanic, but it feels EXCEPTIONALLY like a 'win more' card as opposed to Overrun. Most everyone won't cast it until they can win, at which point lifelink doesn't mean much. The first strike and trample are legit and worth the 7 mana, but I do feel like it's held back more often than not BECAUSE people see it as an Overrun card, and don't run it that often.
Clarion...I never did get one during my 'ultimatum collection' craze, so I'd forgotten what it did. That is legit; but with the number of other 'spell cheat' cards that have recently come out(mostly in blue and black), I think it's lost a lot of its luster. Your mana curve can also make this whiff pretty badly too...I sure would love to cast 3 one drops for 7. :\
Clarion, we all agree, is worthless in this format...moving on.
Cruel is probably the most efficient of the cycle, IMO. Six effects for 7 is hard to argue with. I can't really see a downside to it, aside from the color investment. But as was said, a 5 life swing on one opponent is often not going to help out as much as you'd like it to(even tapping out for a Drain Life might be better).
I don't think they are terrific value. 7 mana is fine, but the color investment for each limits them greatly even in the decks that use them, and their purported limitations in the heat of the moment make them even worse.
But, they are big splashy plays...which is what EDH is about.
Depends on Titanic. If you're in three or four colors, that third green source may be the last mana source you play for it. But I always (well, after last year, anyway) preferred Overwhelming Stampede over Overrun, especially in a format where creatures like Titans and Steel Hellkite are a common sight. If you have at least a 3-power creature, Stampede is a better Overrun. If you have at least a 6-power creature, how much do first strike (when everything has +6/+6!) and lifelink matter to you? So, Titanic Ultimatum is good, but not the best.
Now, let's move on to Cruel Ultimatum. Lot of card advantage (+4 to you, -4 to one opponent, for a total net gain of +8 against that opponent and +4 against all other opponents, but there's a good chance that sacrificed creature will be a token, and your opponent might want you to help him or her fill the graveyard), lot of life gain/loss. I like this card, since it's almost always good, but it's also not green, which can be a problem for mana fixing.
Brilliant Ultimatum is an interesting Fact or Fiction variant. It gets around mana costs, but it costs seven mana, all colored mana, in three colors, so it's debatable how good getting around mana costs really is. And one of those cards may be a land or a creature with kicker (which you can pay for, but you're probably tapped out), or counterspell.
Violent Ultimatum is generally worse than Decimate, but I can see its benefit against affinity, enchantress, superfriends, any deck focusing on a permanent type.
Clarion Ultimatum is worthless in this format, especially since the Rats ability is only in black.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
This ones a classic. A creature that turns into double ramp, easily gets pumped or recurred to expand the value. Bonus weirdness, can ramp other players, probably how it got reprinted in Battlebond.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Curious to hear how you guys use this beast.
I have a copy laying around for my Atraxa deck but it just doesnt seem to make the cut at 3+2cmc.
Some can be said for Gyre Sage tbh.
I remembered the joy when I finally ran across a foil one a few years ago (of course the Battlebond reprint means they're much easier to find now). I used to run it in Horde to go with the Elemental theme (and ramp/fix in 5c), but after a streamlining exercise it went over to Animar because having a +1/+1 counter theme (and support) allowed it to function way better (plus realistically no one's using Horde's ability to cast this card back and it was honestly a middling ramp option in a deck full of them).
I haven't got the chance to utilize it in a game proper, but that politically-friendly ramp option also benefits me since I tend to end up playing Kingdom Variant Games more often than not.
Would you consider Fertilid as preferable in Atraxa +1/+1 over a multi purpose tool like Deathrite Shaman or a shureshot t2 rampspell like Rampant Growth?
Would you consider Fertilid as preferable in Atraxa +1/+1 over a multi purpose tool like Deathrite Shaman or a shureshot t2 rampspell like Rampant Growth?
All depends on your build. My Atraxa deck includes Fertilid but does not include either of the other two cards you mention. It's there because of the benefits it offers a four-color deck + the interaction with counters.
In four-color, I'd also run Farseek ahead of Rampant Growth, but that's not really relevant to the question of Fertilid.
I play this in my Azor Flying Tribal deck. It draws a gazillion cards. Note also, others attacking with flying creatures still draws you cards. 7 mana is a lot, but in the right deck, that much repeatable card draw is worth it.
It's one of the four creatures in my Talrand, Sky Summoner Polymorph control deck. It can do some serious work. I think my record is drawing 25 cards by attacking with it and four drakes turned into copies of it via Polymorphous Rush.
It's like it trades mana cost for reliability over Coastal Piracy. (And of course, they need to have flying.)
Obvious benefit in Talrand, or in decks like Derevi where it's easy to give creatures flying and you'll want them evasive. But as long as your commander has flying, it is, at a bare minimum, a double Phyrexian Arena (minus life loss), so there's that.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Even in this format, most players die by being either attacked or targeted, and this neat little cat can deflect either of those. I definitely have a deck I should play this in.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Being 4 mana just pushes it a wee bit above where I'd want this effect to be. For 3 I'd consider it more often, for 2 it'd be a slam dunk in more decks even if it was a 1/1.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
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Brilliant is a super FoF (don't kid yourself, casting on average 2+ spells for free is ridiculously strong).
Cruel is still a 7 for 1 with a 10 point swing.
Then we come to violent. It's a triple vindicate on one card, which makes your 7 mana a steal vs the 9 it would take to cast vindicate three times. I think people are getting a bit spoiled with the expectation of wanting every card to be an Expropriate, For 7cmc, these are still terrific value.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
You're not wrong on Titanic, but it feels EXCEPTIONALLY like a 'win more' card as opposed to Overrun. Most everyone won't cast it until they can win, at which point lifelink doesn't mean much. The first strike and trample are legit and worth the 7 mana, but I do feel like it's held back more often than not BECAUSE people see it as an Overrun card, and don't run it that often.
Clarion...I never did get one during my 'ultimatum collection' craze, so I'd forgotten what it did. That is legit; but with the number of other 'spell cheat' cards that have recently come out(mostly in blue and black), I think it's lost a lot of its luster. Your mana curve can also make this whiff pretty badly too...I sure would love to cast 3 one drops for 7. :\
Clarion, we all agree, is worthless in this format...moving on.
Violent's been discussed.
Cruel is probably the most efficient of the cycle, IMO. Six effects for 7 is hard to argue with. I can't really see a downside to it, aside from the color investment. But as was said, a 5 life swing on one opponent is often not going to help out as much as you'd like it to(even tapping out for a Drain Life might be better).
I don't think they are terrific value. 7 mana is fine, but the color investment for each limits them greatly even in the decks that use them, and their purported limitations in the heat of the moment make them even worse.
But, they are big splashy plays...which is what EDH is about.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
Now, let's move on to Cruel Ultimatum. Lot of card advantage (+4 to you, -4 to one opponent, for a total net gain of +8 against that opponent and +4 against all other opponents, but there's a good chance that sacrificed creature will be a token, and your opponent might want you to help him or her fill the graveyard), lot of life gain/loss. I like this card, since it's almost always good, but it's also not green, which can be a problem for mana fixing.
Brilliant Ultimatum is an interesting Fact or Fiction variant. It gets around mana costs, but it costs seven mana, all colored mana, in three colors, so it's debatable how good getting around mana costs really is. And one of those cards may be a land or a creature with kicker (which you can pay for, but you're probably tapped out), or counterspell.
Violent Ultimatum is generally worse than Decimate, but I can see its benefit against affinity, enchantress, superfriends, any deck focusing on a permanent type.
Clarion Ultimatum is worthless in this format, especially since the Rats ability is only in black.
On phasing:
BURNINATE!
It's all fun and games at 5 or more...until someone ruins your day.
I will always love Banefire because that's how I got one of my earliest FNM wins...
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
This ones a classic. A creature that turns into double ramp, easily gets pumped or recurred to expand the value. Bonus weirdness, can ramp other players, probably how it got reprinted in Battlebond.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I have a copy laying around for my Atraxa deck but it just doesnt seem to make the cut at 3+2cmc.
Some can be said for Gyre Sage tbh.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I remembered the joy when I finally ran across a foil one a few years ago (of course the Battlebond reprint means they're much easier to find now). I used to run it in Horde to go with the Elemental theme (and ramp/fix in 5c), but after a streamlining exercise it went over to Animar because having a +1/+1 counter theme (and support) allowed it to function way better (plus realistically no one's using Horde's ability to cast this card back and it was honestly a middling ramp option in a deck full of them).
I haven't got the chance to utilize it in a game proper, but that politically-friendly ramp option also benefits me since I tend to end up playing Kingdom Variant Games more often than not.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
All depends on your build. My Atraxa deck includes Fertilid but does not include either of the other two cards you mention. It's there because of the benefits it offers a four-color deck + the interaction with counters.
In four-color, I'd also run Farseek ahead of Rampant Growth, but that's not really relevant to the question of Fertilid.
I'd play this in a deck full of flyers. Or The Locust God, or Oona, Queen of the Fae.
3/7 is a bummer though, when you're paying 5UU
Obvious benefit in Talrand, or in decks like Derevi where it's easy to give creatures flying and you'll want them evasive. But as long as your commander has flying, it is, at a bare minimum, a double Phyrexian Arena (minus life loss), so there's that.
On phasing:
Even in this format, most players die by being either attacked or targeted, and this neat little cat can deflect either of those. I definitely have a deck I should play this in.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.