So this guy has started showing up who has an insane golgari resurrection deck. Yes it's an expensive deck mythics up the wazzoo.
Regardless I've been trying to figure out a way to win and so far I'm whipped.
He basically sacrifices his creatures forcing everyone else to do so as well. Also uses an ability that allows his mana to untapped each upkeep and ours to take two turn. This sucks.
My ideas have been at possible land destruction and burn. he can pretty muh return any creatures destroyed so even trying to boarding is pointless other than to save damage for a single turn.
Just curious what ideas ppl have against this type of deck. His commander allows him to float mana that doesn't dissapate. So I've seen him over 1000 floating.
9 out of 10 times your board state is zero creatures.
That being said, it sounds like your opponent is using Omnath, Locus of Mana. I'd focus on killing him early and often. It's possible your deck or your group's decks need more removal spells.
I run a rakdos, dragonlord kolaghan.
I have some destruction and exile cards but not much. Defiantly going to add in quite a few more exile graves. Only thing I have right now is the dessert from HOU that exiles all upon sacking.
Thanks for the input I'll side board the ***** out of grave hate
Mega-ramp is tough - Sounds like the other issue is Omnath mega-ramping into Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger which allows him to vomit his whole hand out while grinding you guys to a standstill.
For that, you need removal that is extremely mana efficient. In Rakdos, that would be Tragic Slip, Snuff Out, Dismember (early on, at least), and possibly Devour in Shadow. Combine all that with graveyard hate to prevent nasties like Vorniclex from coming back again (again, free is good - Tormod's Crypt) and you can shut down his nonsense and play a normal game.
You could also talk to him out of game, as it sounds like his deck is just way beyond what everyone else at the table is playing with. But if he's jamming black cards in a monogreen deck, that's not allowed and is against the entire point of the format.
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Otherwise, there is enough grave hate out there to combat reanimation just fine. You could always run a bleeder package too - whenever he kills a creature of yours or his, Blood Artist, Zulaport Cutthroat and Falkenrath Noble will sting him. It's not huge, but it's not nothing.
I also have to admit to some confusion as to how this guy is fitting a reanimation and sac package into an Omnath, Locus of Mana deck - it is entirely outside of the scope of EDH to run black cards in a mono green commander deck. Otherwise you're just playing 100 card singleton, and you have the possibility of doing the same thing.
I also have to agree that it sounds like this guy is running a deck that out powers the rest of the table - it could be very beneficial to have a talk to him about playing a deck that scales to the power level of the rest of the table. Not that he's playing anything there is no possible answer for - you do have options, and it is possible for you to beat him - but it does sound like he's dropped a lot more coin on his deck than the rest of your playgroup have.
Mega-ramp is tough - Sounds like the other issue is Omnath mega-ramping into Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger which allows him to vomit his whole hand out while grinding you guys to a standstill.
For that, you need removal that is extremely mana efficient. In Rakdos, that would be Tragic Slip, Snuff Out, Dismember (early on, at least), and possibly Devour in Shadow. Combine all that with graveyard hate to prevent nasties like Vorniclex from coming back again (again, free is good - Tormod's Crypt) and you can shut down his nonsense and play a normal game.
You could also talk to him out of game, as it sounds like his deck is just way beyond what everyone else at the table is playing with. But if he's jamming black cards in a monogreen deck, that's not allowed and is against the entire point of the format.
Yes you are exactly right, he runs a golgari and a mono green ramp. Both are equally ***** to play against.
Grave pact/dictate/butcher/and fallen angel.
Are in the golgari.
And then he plays onmnath early brings out voniclex and the game is over from there for the most part. Then he mindslavers the table. It's annoying as hell.
He usually scoops after and let's the table finish after he plays his whole deck.
Both the B/G and mono green lock the board and then he gets all his creatures out be it by ramping or recursion with ramping.
Otherwise, there is enough grave hate out there to combat reanimation just fine. You could always run a bleeder package too - whenever he kills a creature of yours or his, Blood Artist, Zulaport Cutthroat and Falkenrath Noble will sting him. It's not huge, but it's not nothing.
I also have to admit to some confusion as to how this guy is fitting a reanimation and sac package into an Omnath, Locus of Mana deck - it is entirely outside of the scope of EDH to run black cards in a mono green commander deck. Otherwise you're just playing 100 card singleton, and you have the possibility of doing the same thing.
I also have to agree that it sounds like this guy is running a deck that out powers the rest of the table - it could be very beneficial to have a talk to him about playing a deck that scales to the power level of the rest of the table. Not that he's playing anything there is no possible answer for - you do have options, and it is possible for you to beat him - but it does sound like he's dropped a lot more coin on his deck than the rest of your playgroup have.
Thanks for the comments. I run oblivion stone, and a couple exile grave cards. I think I'm going to have to fun alot more artifacts that exile graves.
He also has a green card that gains counters that he can neg, to make his creatures or permanent industractable. I have loads of board wipes in my deck but the don't work or have little effect.
Also I've only been playing since July this year. This guy has been playing since 02.
He knows his decks are super powefull. He always says " I give you credit, you know your out gunned but you still play with me and try to find ways to win" or something to that efffect.
For the Golgari one, may I suggest Tajuru Preserver/Sigarda, Host of Herons or just plain Angel of Jubilation? Any of those cards is a royal pain in the ass for my Ghave, which does the same sort of sac tricks. (The difference: I have answers. I would be an absolute moron to rely just on Grave Pact and friends. But it can still be painful until I draw or tutor my answer.) And as said, there are plenty of Tormod's Crypt-like cards, mostly in WBG, but a few artifacts as well.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Well, at least he's diplomatic about it. Still, it seems like being diplomatic about beating you up. As long as you're happy with the arrangement that's fine, I guess. If it starts to feel like one-sided fun for him and not for you, I'd think about having a talk to him.
Indestructible isn't a total loss for you - you'll find a lot of the answers to some of the other effects he's throwing at you will help with indestructible too. All indestructible means is that it 'can't be destroyed' - so no combat damage, direct damage or destroy effects. What will remove an indestructible permanent is exile effects, -1/-1 counters, bouncing to hand/library. There are some good options there:
Hour of Devastation - specifically removes indestructible. Black Sun's Zenith - cheap to buy, reusable. Toxic Deluge - to my mind, this is the best black sweeper. It comes with a higher price tag, but not entirely inaccessible. Massacre Wurm and Demon of Dark Schemes will kill smaller indestructibles, and Kagemaro, First to Suffer scales to some degree. Sudden Spoiling - really, really good card. Can't be responded to, renders his creatures redundant and gives you an opening for a turn. Anger of the Gods - there's a few burn spells that will exile instead of going to graveyard. They're mostly not amazing, but it is an option if you think you can make it work.
Exile, we've already run through most of the options in Rakdos colours. Bounce, you're pretty stuck except for Chaos Warp - which in some cases can be great, but I think the odds of it being successful against this deck is slim as it sounds like his deck is stacked with great stuff.
If you already have Oblivion Stone, be careful what you use it on. It sounds like creatures there's no point. Focus on enchantments, artifacts, the gears that run his deck's engine. That's often the way to beat this sort of deck - take apart the engine and take opportunities where you can. Sometimes the most crucial pieces are not what they seem to be.
Consider a mostly creatureless red black build. I suggest spreading plague, tainted aether, burning sands, and then just about every removal spell you can come up with. Laugh and watch the fireworks?
Consider a mostly creatureless red black build. I suggest spreading plague, tainted aether, burning sands, and then just about every removal spell you can come up with. Laugh and watch the fireworks?
This just sounds absolutely brutal. I'd be interested to see it happen.
I did wonder if he was the commander you had in mind. I've heard of some nasty group slug lists with him heading. Not sure if it's quite the vibe OP is going for, but a valid strategy nonetheless.
Beside classic grave hate, one card I can think of that can take advantage of the situation is Grave Betrayal, if stuff dies it become yours. Endless Whispers can also change the whole situation, but it will be be a bit more chaotic and messy as nothing will truly die as they will just change owners instead.
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Regardless I've been trying to figure out a way to win and so far I'm whipped.
He basically sacrifices his creatures forcing everyone else to do so as well. Also uses an ability that allows his mana to untapped each upkeep and ours to take two turn. This sucks.
My ideas have been at possible land destruction and burn. he can pretty muh return any creatures destroyed so even trying to boarding is pointless other than to save damage for a single turn.
Just curious what ideas ppl have against this type of deck. His commander allows him to float mana that doesn't dissapate. So I've seen him over 1000 floating.
9 out of 10 times your board state is zero creatures.
To fight a graveyard recursion based deck, you can add in some graveyard hate cards. Relic of Progenitus, Grafdigger's Cage, Scavenging Ooze, Tormod's Crypt, Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace,Agent of Erebos, Bojuka Bog, and Nihil Spellbomb are all ones I've used or I'd consider using.
That being said, it sounds like your opponent is using Omnath, Locus of Mana. I'd focus on killing him early and often. It's possible your deck or your group's decks need more removal spells.
Good luck!
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Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI run a rakdos, dragonlord kolaghan.
I have some destruction and exile cards but not much. Defiantly going to add in quite a few more exile graves. Only thing I have right now is the dessert from HOU that exiles all upon sacking.
Thanks for the input I'll side board the ***** out of grave hate
Mega-ramp is tough - Sounds like the other issue is Omnath mega-ramping into Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger which allows him to vomit his whole hand out while grinding you guys to a standstill.
For that, you need removal that is extremely mana efficient. In Rakdos, that would be Tragic Slip, Snuff Out, Dismember (early on, at least), and possibly Devour in Shadow. Combine all that with graveyard hate to prevent nasties like Vorniclex from coming back again (again, free is good - Tormod's Crypt) and you can shut down his nonsense and play a normal game.
You could also talk to him out of game, as it sounds like his deck is just way beyond what everyone else at the table is playing with. But if he's jamming black cards in a monogreen deck, that's not allowed and is against the entire point of the format.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Otherwise, there is enough grave hate out there to combat reanimation just fine. You could always run a bleeder package too - whenever he kills a creature of yours or his, Blood Artist, Zulaport Cutthroat and Falkenrath Noble will sting him. It's not huge, but it's not nothing.
I also have to admit to some confusion as to how this guy is fitting a reanimation and sac package into an Omnath, Locus of Mana deck - it is entirely outside of the scope of EDH to run black cards in a mono green commander deck. Otherwise you're just playing 100 card singleton, and you have the possibility of doing the same thing.
I also have to agree that it sounds like this guy is running a deck that out powers the rest of the table - it could be very beneficial to have a talk to him about playing a deck that scales to the power level of the rest of the table. Not that he's playing anything there is no possible answer for - you do have options, and it is possible for you to beat him - but it does sound like he's dropped a lot more coin on his deck than the rest of your playgroup have.
Yes you are exactly right, he runs a golgari and a mono green ramp. Both are equally ***** to play against.
Grave pact/dictate/butcher/and fallen angel.
Are in the golgari.
And then he plays onmnath early brings out voniclex and the game is over from there for the most part. Then he mindslavers the table. It's annoying as hell.
He usually scoops after and let's the table finish after he plays his whole deck.
Both the B/G and mono green lock the board and then he gets all his creatures out be it by ramping or recursion with ramping.
Thanks for the comments. I run oblivion stone, and a couple exile grave cards. I think I'm going to have to fun alot more artifacts that exile graves.
He also has a green card that gains counters that he can neg, to make his creatures or permanent industractable. I have loads of board wipes in my deck but the don't work or have little effect.
Also I've only been playing since July this year. This guy has been playing since 02.
He knows his decks are super powefull. He always says " I give you credit, you know your out gunned but you still play with me and try to find ways to win" or something to that efffect.
On phasing:
Indestructible isn't a total loss for you - you'll find a lot of the answers to some of the other effects he's throwing at you will help with indestructible too. All indestructible means is that it 'can't be destroyed' - so no combat damage, direct damage or destroy effects. What will remove an indestructible permanent is exile effects, -1/-1 counters, bouncing to hand/library. There are some good options there:
Hour of Devastation - specifically removes indestructible.
Black Sun's Zenith - cheap to buy, reusable.
Toxic Deluge - to my mind, this is the best black sweeper. It comes with a higher price tag, but not entirely inaccessible.
Massacre Wurm and Demon of Dark Schemes will kill smaller indestructibles, and Kagemaro, First to Suffer scales to some degree.
Sudden Spoiling - really, really good card. Can't be responded to, renders his creatures redundant and gives you an opening for a turn.
Anger of the Gods - there's a few burn spells that will exile instead of going to graveyard. They're mostly not amazing, but it is an option if you think you can make it work.
Exile, we've already run through most of the options in Rakdos colours. Bounce, you're pretty stuck except for Chaos Warp - which in some cases can be great, but I think the odds of it being successful against this deck is slim as it sounds like his deck is stacked with great stuff.
If you already have Oblivion Stone, be careful what you use it on. It sounds like creatures there's no point. Focus on enchantments, artifacts, the gears that run his deck's engine. That's often the way to beat this sort of deck - take apart the engine and take opportunities where you can. Sometimes the most crucial pieces are not what they seem to be.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
This just sounds absolutely brutal. I'd be interested to see it happen.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant - Lurking Zombies.
GBG Sapling of Colfenor - Forest Growth and Destruction.
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted - Blinking and trading.
GWB Teneb the Harvester - Enchantments, you lose life I gain life.
RRR Neheb the Eternal - Ping people for mana burn.