Ramp and card draw are two important functions in EDH, we are *supposed* to run 10 sources of each. But if there are enough cards that can do double duty these twenty slots could produce 15 of each (albeit 10 hybrid slightly less efficiently) with the 5 other slots being able to be of the more efficient variety. Or go hog wild and have 20 hybrid cards?
I looked around but didn't find a list of such cards. My post on another popular EDH forum has given the below, but that forum buries stuff too quickly, so I'd like to put up a long tail list here. Ramp cards that draw lands are also great, but a slightly different animal.
Honorable Mentions that are not technically hybrid cards:
Thawing Glaciers Rampant growth on a land which doesn't require much build around Maze's End More expensive that Thawing Glaciers, can produce mana, but requires build around
Ravnica Bounce lands- They read: Pay 1 to draw a land card; flip a coin to discard a card. Benefit from build around, but not necessary. Yavimaya Elder slower and more expensive Ancestral Recall Tireless Tracker enjoy some more clues Horn of Greed enjoy some draw with those extra lands you are playing, also symmetrical
The above list is 25+, so there are some tools to thus play around. Has anyone used such a deck building strategy before? How did it perform? Extra fun?
This is very hard in practice because cards that do both efficiently will have CMC>3 at which point I do not consider it ramp anymore. I don't want to spend more then the first three turns ramping/fixing: after that the actual game plan has to start or the deck will be too slow.
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If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Yes these are slightly less efficient, but there are a few that are still efficient enough. Plus one need not go whole hog all in .
But you really want to use the spells at different times, ramp early on and draw later on to replenish your grip. I would say the best you could really do is just ramp that also offers decent card advantage.
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EDH Pantheon UBRG Yidris, Eye of the Storm WBR Kaalia, Herald of Apocalypse UBG Damia, Sage of Nightmare WBG Karador, the Bridge Between WU Grand Warden Augustin IV RG Omnath, Locus of Awakening BG Nath Addict UR Niv Mizzet, Brain Aflame B Kokusho, the Mourning Star U Memnarch is All
Ravnica Bounce lands- They read: Pay 1 to draw a land card; flip a coin to discard a card.
Huh? You don't pay any mana for Ravnica Karoos (while the original Karoo cycle required bouncing an untapped land, the Ravnica Karoos let you bounce a tapped land, meaning you can use the land you're bouncing to pay for a spell as well as bounce it), and I don't understand what you're trying to imply with the coin flipping/discard part.
Magus of the Library Two very relevant abilities on a single creature. It's sire is one of the most powerful cards in all of Magic.
As good as Magus of the Library can be, this is a gross overstatement if its quality.
Pretty sure he meant library of alexandria by "It's [sic] sire". Whether it's still "one of the most powerful" is debatable (I don't think it sees a ton of vintage play these days?) but it's certainly a great card.
Ravnica Bounce lands- They read: Pay 1 to draw a land card; flip a coin to discard a card.
Huh? You don't pay any mana for Ravnica Karoos (while the original Karoo cycle required bouncing an untapped land, the Ravnica Karoos let you bounce a tapped land, meaning you can use the land you're bouncing to pay for a spell as well as bounce it), and I don't understand what you're trying to imply with the coin flipping/discard part.
Horn of Greed enjoy some draw with those extra lands you are playing, also symmetrical
Not just "not technically hybrid", it has absolutely nothing to do with ramp.
Various Commander Outlets preach that the general rule of thumb (*supposed*) is 10 ramp, 10 draw. It may be incorrect, but that is a common though out there. Many Magic the Gathering players ask...
Library of Alexandria one of the most powerful cards in Mtg. You are right, should say sired by, not sire of!
Rav Karoos- Think of it this way, you can tap the land you bounce, so that is mana neutral. However, the Karoos cost you one mana as they come in tapped, but they "draw" you a land card (the bounced land). So the draw is equivalent to costing one mana. If you have 7 cards in hand when you bounce the land, you will need to discard at end of turn.
Sorry that some of my text was either misleading or unclear.
Kodama's Reach and Cultivate are probably two of the best; they ramp your mana by one and put you up a card (not to mention fix your mana color-wise). There are plenty of 4CMC options that ramp you +2, and those are ramp plus card advantage. The card you "draw" is of course always a land so it isn't raw card advantage, but you can't have everything until you get to 5 mana.
Kodama's Reach and Cultivate are probably two of the best; they ramp your mana by one and put you up a card (not to mention fix your mana color-wise). There are plenty of 4CMC options that ramp you +2, and those are ramp plus card advantage. The card you "draw" is of course always a land so it isn't raw card advantage, but you can't have everything until you get to 5 mana.
They are extremely powerful and efficient, I'd love even more variants for sure!
Bounty of the Luxa is an interesting option as well. It alternates between card draw and 3 mana ramp, but it is uncontrollable (by itself) and doesn't offer ramp until 2 turns later.
If no other ramp is used this would be the progression:
Turn 4: Play the card (it has no flood counters on it)
Turn 5: Precombat main phase: Remove flood counters. There are none, so you remove none. The condition is met --> Put on a flood counter and draw a card.
Turn 6: Precombat main phase: Remove flood counters. There is one, so you remove it. The condition is not met --> add 1GU to your manapool.
Turn 7: [see Turn 5].
Turn 8: [see Turn 6].
Kodama's Reach and Cultivate are probably two of the best; they ramp your mana by one and put you up a card (not to mention fix your mana color-wise). There are plenty of 4CMC options that ramp you +2, and those are ramp plus card advantage. The card you "draw" is of course always a land so it isn't raw card advantage, but you can't have everything until you get to 5 mana.
They are extremely powerful and efficient, I'd love even more variants for sure!
Nissa's Pilgrimage is close, although it only gets basic Forests instead of any basic.
I might need to put that into my Ur-Dragon deck which needs more than +1 mana per ramp card. At 3cmc, +3 lands for one card is really nice, right up there with Surveyor's Scope and Oath of Lieges (I play 10x Bounce lands so not that hard to turn on). The fixing is done with a gaggle of rainbow lands and a few rainbow ramps.
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I looked around but didn't find a list of such cards. My post on another popular EDH forum has given the below, but that forum buries stuff too quickly, so I'd like to put up a long tail list here. Ramp cards that draw lands are also great, but a slightly different animal.
Hybrid Ramp/Draw Cards:
Weirding Wood only slight less efficient that its 2 cmc brother Fertile Ground
Mind Stone and it's older siblings Hedron Archive and Dreamstone Hedron
The Banners- not great but still pack quite a bit of utility
The Cluestones- see above
Commander's Sphere better than the Banners and Keystones
Zendikar Resurgent and its lizard cousin Regal Behemoth- budget doublers and card draw.
Explore and it's [meatier] cousin Urban Evolution let the good times roll.
Rites of Flourishing Howling Mine and Exploration but symmetrical.
Solemn Simulacrum Le sad robot
Shefet Monitor Rampant Growth version of Krosan Tusker. Why not run both? Worst case is you get a fattie out of the deal.
Beneath the Sands Modal rather than hybrid.
Magus of the Library Two very relevant abilities on a single creature. It is sired [by] one of the most powerful cards in all of Magic.
Selvala, Explorer Returned and Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
Honorable Mentions that are not technically hybrid cards:
Thawing Glaciers Rampant growth on a land which doesn't require much build around
Maze's End More expensive that Thawing Glaciers, can produce mana, but requires build around
Ravnica Bounce lands- They read: Pay 1 to draw a land card; flip a coin to discard a card. Benefit from build around, but not necessary.
Yavimaya Elder slower and more expensive Ancestral Recall
Tireless Tracker enjoy some more clues
Horn of Greed enjoy some draw with those extra lands you are playing, also symmetrical
The above list is 25+, so there are some tools to thus play around. Has anyone used such a deck building strategy before? How did it perform? Extra fun?
Any further ideas/cards welcome!
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
But you really want to use the spells at different times, ramp early on and draw later on to replenish your grip. I would say the best you could really do is just ramp that also offers decent card advantage.
UBRG Yidris, Eye of the Storm
WBR Kaalia, Herald of Apocalypse
UBG Damia, Sage of Nightmare
WBG Karador, the Bridge Between
WU Grand Warden Augustin IV
RG Omnath, Locus of Awakening
BG Nath Addict
UR Niv Mizzet, Brain Aflame
B Kokusho, the Mourning Star
U Memnarch is All
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
As good as Magus of the Library can be, this is a gross overstatement if its quality.
Huh? You don't pay any mana for Ravnica Karoos (while the original Karoo cycle required bouncing an untapped land, the Ravnica Karoos let you bounce a tapped land, meaning you can use the land you're bouncing to pay for a spell as well as bounce it), and I don't understand what you're trying to imply with the coin flipping/discard part.
Not just "not technically hybrid", it has absolutely nothing to do with ramp.
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Also idk that explore really counts as "draw" since it's just replacing itself.Pretty sure he meant library of alexandria by "It's [sic] sire". Whether it's still "one of the most powerful" is debatable (I don't think it sees a ton of vintage play these days?) but it's certainly a great card.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Various Commander Outlets preach that the general rule of thumb (*supposed*) is 10 ramp, 10 draw. It may be incorrect, but that is a common though out there. Many Magic the Gathering players ask...
Library of Alexandria one of the most powerful cards in Mtg. You are right, should say sired by, not sire of!
Rav Karoos- Think of it this way, you can tap the land you bounce, so that is mana neutral. However, the Karoos cost you one mana as they come in tapped, but they "draw" you a land card (the bounced land). So the draw is equivalent to costing one mana. If you have 7 cards in hand when you bounce the land, you will need to discard at end of turn.
Sorry that some of my text was either misleading or unclear.
Interesting card!
That is a lot of functionality for sure.
They are extremely powerful and efficient, I'd love even more variants for sure!
If no other ramp is used this would be the progression:
Turn 4: Play the card (it has no flood counters on it)
Turn 5: Precombat main phase: Remove flood counters. There are none, so you remove none. The condition is met --> Put on a flood counter and draw a card.
Turn 6: Precombat main phase: Remove flood counters. There is one, so you remove it. The condition is not met --> add 1GU to your manapool.
Turn 7: [see Turn 5].
Turn 8: [see Turn 6].
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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