MTG Salvation

So, I am debating between Terastodon and Woodfall Primus for my GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow deck. I considered the possibility of Bane of Progress as well but I think for now I want to go with one of the spot removal options instead of the sweeping.

Obviously the bigger impact of Terastodon is kind of appealing but I also run sac outlets and some Grave Pact effects not to mention Greater Good. I think there are some reasons to consider both given these but I am not coming to a conclusive reason to run one over the other. I think that Woodfall Primus is potentially less appealing to bribery from me for opponents.

Quote from ISBPathfinder »

So, I am debating between Terastodon and Woodfall Primus for my GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow deck. I considered the possibility of Bane of Progress as well but I think for now I want to go with one of the spot removal options instead of the sweeping.

Obviously the bigger impact of Terastodon is kind of appealing but I also run sac outlets and some Grave Pact effects not to mention Greater Good. I think there are some reasons to consider both given these but I am not coming to a conclusive reason to run one over the other. I think that Woodfall Primus is potentially less appealing to bribery from me.

Are you running Papa Zombie Mikaus? Spelling is awful on my phone. If you are the primus is better. Otherwise I'd go with the other guy since he is much better on his own.

Quote from Colt47 »

Are you running Papa Zombie Mikaus? Spelling is awful on my phone. If you are the primus is better. Otherwise I'd go with the other guy since he is much better on his own.

I am but going infinite is not my goal. I am also thinking he is probably getting cut as it stands.

I like Terastodon more. Mostly, I like the option of flattening 3 things I hate, and the power/toughness on Terastodon is considerably threatening (even if you do spawn elephants for your opponents).

I also like the capacity to flatten some spare lands for more stats on my own side. It just seems more functional on its own than Woodfall Primus. JMHO, though, I can easily see someone finding the persist more attractive on WP.

I prefer Woodfall Primus - his Persist makes him nearly a rattlesnake, he makes for great sacrifice fodder especially if you have +1/+1 counter synergy in the deck, and Trample makes him better at rumbling in a vacuum. I hate giving my opponent stuff so I am always reluctant to run Terasty.

For your deck, however, I think it's Terastodon - you seem likely to flip Brawn and Filth into the 'yard to make it more threatening, it can hit your own permanents while still crippling opponents if you need Grave Pact food or delirium enabled, and it's a little easier on the mana.

Don't know what else you're thinking of tossing, but if you want some REALLY nasty removal with Terastodon, Cauldron of Souls is always an option too. Again though, I don't know what else you're thinking of dropping.

In general I prefer Tetastadon. The impact is so much more immediate and getting the persist trigger pn primus is no guarantee.

Quote from Underhill83 »

I really think Bane of Progress is underrated / underused. Sure, it's no spot removal, but a lot of decks are killed by this kind of boardwipe.
And cmc 6 is a lot easier to cast than cmc 8.
Jm2c

Bane of Progress is a powerful 6 drop and competes in a lot of ways for that slot; however, it is not on the same level as these other 2. Different CMC, mass wipe vs target (gets around hex/shroud), and lack of resilience / evasion.

I believe the question is how much removal do you have already and how specific is it. Along with do you care of the 3/3 creatures. In a vacuum, Terry is slightly better - higher P/T and hits 3 vs 1 targets.

In a raw power sense, Terastodon I think is better because it has a bigger impact the turn it comes out. The caveat to this is if you have a way of getting rid of the -1/-1 to let woodfall primus come back more than once.

Unless I can specifically abuse the Persist of Woodfall Primus I'd go for the big elephant. Not that I think either is a particularly good card - if I need something gone, I don't want to spend 8 mana getting rid of it, even if I do get a big body out of the deal. I'll also add my vote to the Bane of Progress side - it's not exactly the same type of card as these two, but outside of something like an enchantress deck where it could really hurt you to play it, it's significantly more powerful.

I've killed more than one person with 3 3/3 beasts they gave me with Terastodon.

Terastodon is better because you get more out of it especially if you dump and revive it.

With what you have said about your deck, I believe the primus is the more synergistic choice. Having free, onboard instant speed removal with your sac outlets is very strong, plus you're not giving opponents extra Grave Pact fodder.

Depends on your play-style though. I prefer instant speed effects, and subtle plays over windmill slamming the biggest, beefiest, most attention-getting thing every turn.

Given Flash, I do enjoy two immediate permanent destruction without blockers of Primus.

depends of the rest of your deck terastodon functions better in reanimator strategies and i would take it over woodfall in that case. woodfall primus is better in sac strategies as mentioned earlier however it also has combo potential with Melira, Sylvok Outcast/mikaeus the unhallowed. For good stuff with out a focus one any of the synergies above i would recommend terastodon if I cant have both.

I like Woodfall Primus better than Terastodon. WAY too many people like to go all clone happy on Terastodon in vengance and the game just devolves from there. I've been much happier with Primus, plus he usually hit two permanents without blockers. Every once in a while giving an opponent 9 power worth of creatures after you just nuked 3 things ends up back firing. Woodfall is "almost" like 11 power worth of creature and 2x spot removal.

I like Woodfall.

And Bane of Progress is great too if you don't have a permanent heavy deck.

I prefer Primus to Terastodon. Too often when i'm casting T-Don, I find myself targeting a third thing "just because," which doesn't really lend itself to optimal gameplay. Mostly, I just usually find that if most decks at the table are playing a reasonable amount of removal, board states don't get to a point where I need to remove three things. Of course, you can sometimes give yourself the extra 3/3 with T-Don, but there's always a risk to that, and it's not always the right call, even if you have a lot of mana. As many times as the board gets cleared and you're fine, there are times when your T-Don gets removed and the damage from those 3/3s (and their vindictive controllers) starts to add up.

T-Don has a high ceiling but I think it depends more on the board state and how politically you can play with your opponents, which you can sometimes leverage to your advantage but sometimes not. I value Primus because it's results are more predictable.

Ultimately I think a G/B deck can probably use and abuse both of those cards quite well and it just comes down to what your deck is geared to take advantage of and how you like to play - I don't think one is strictly better than the other.