This is a Zur tribal deck utilizing Rebel and Arcane Adaptation to fetch for creature-based answers directly from the deck.
I did not come up with this idea, the original deck was in fact a Zombie deck from EDHREC, a visitor commented below described the possibility of comboing AA with Rebel. Fetched it with Zur upon the first attack, naming Rebel, and after that maintain control by fetching answers with Rebel searchers. Training Ground makes the fetching even easier.
The obvious weakness of this deck is (of course) the reliance on AA, supplements such as counterspells and Conspiracy are needed to keep the board state. Fortunately, white also doesn't lack spells that could replay enchantments and is overall very high on chant synergy level.
Rebel theme also opens up combo potentials such as (generously provided by the said commenter): Bloodline Keeper or Steward of Solidarity + Intruder Alarm for infinite tokens, add Pious Evangel for infinite life. (flip to Wayward Disciple for infinite damage using sac engine). I believe we can also activate Rebel Informer’s ability on stack with Perplexing Chimera trigger, to gain control of the spell while shuffling Chimera back to the deck for later use.
I open this thread to invite people to gather ideas for the deck. I will start by posting some ideas below:
Seems like the most common Rebel fetch CMC is 3 or less. Of course you can upgrade with another Rebel for following turn, but important it seems to hit nice 3 drops.
With Intruder Alarm being a potential key, I like the idea of Merieke Ri Berit. Gilded Drake also works nice with Rebel Informer. So already we can have a bit of a thief theme.
Paradox Engine can be a pusedo backup plan to Intruder Alarm, but value rather than infinite. For this plan you could get Metalworker and Arcum Dagsson as "Rebel" tutors.
With mana creatures, you can keep fetching "Rebels" with Intruder Alarm or Paradox Engine.
With infinite mana Zur can get Compulsion so you can get your win-con (I'm sure there is something better).
I would play some number of enchantment animate cards, like Necromancy, Animate Dead or Dance of the Dead, so that Zur can get back some of the key combo creatures.
Also, if you run Rebels, you definitly should run Bound in Silence. It being a Rebel means you can fetch it, plus what most people often overlook is that if you do and put it on the battlefield you're not targetting whatever you're putting it on. So no matter how many boots/greaves that opposing commander is wearing, it's not attacking or blocking
It's more of a cute trick, but if you can fetch it out of your deck then I think [c]Portal Mage[/c[ can lead to a lot of epic moments.
Kindred Dominance also seems good. Konda's Banner is really cheap for it's effect in a tribal deck (+2/+2 for your team if player on your commander).
I don't have lot of other ideas at this moment, but whatever you do, don't forget to cover the basic removal/draw/discard effects in the deck. Augur of Skulls can do a lot of damage during the upkeep. Mindslicer is even harder: you can keep casting spells through searching rebels and enchantments with Zur so your loss if significantly less than everyone else's though you need a sac outlet to surprise people with it.
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Thanks for all the wonderful ideas. Like I said, I did not come up with this initially, so feel free to expand on it.
Looks like the enchantment/artifact approach is the key here. Our obviously plays the key role of getting the AA and other removal into play, and Paradox Engine dictates good portion of artifact mana to abuse Rebel and Power Artifact. Searching for retrieval/control/reanimation/removal is definitely a plus package, and compare to the original rebel deck during MM block this deck lacks Gaea's Cradle, so there will be mana issues in the beginning for sure, again further pushing the deck towards artifact control.
Perhaps Zur ironically doesn't need too many enchantment in this deck, instead let the enchantments he fetched out to initiate combos.
Aegis of the Gods can be a nice trick, effectively a counterspell if fetched at instant speed and Zur can fetch it too. Always Watching allows us to attack AND use the rebels. Animal Boneyard is a findable version of Miren for the infinite life combo.
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Further to the infinite mana approach Sydri, Galvanic Genius and Synod Artificer are further 3 CMC creatures that can make the Intruder Alarm or Paradox Engine combos work.
Its important to think what your sequencing would likely to be on the average game. There are 7 Rebels that can be cast around turn 3. So you're hoping for one of these. Its likely that you cast out Zur turn 4. So your first Rebel activation is the turn Zur attacks. The first Zur target is Arcane Adaptation.
Then the greedy play is to go for Steward of Solidarity and Intruder Alarm. But a creature board wipe leaves you absolutely crushed.
Getting out 2 Rebels is another sequence you could do. First Rebel gets another tutor Rebel. Zur can get Training Grounds, so that a double activation is very possible in a turn. So this is when you can set up for 2 creature combos, like Pili-Pala and Grand Architect for example.
Remember its a Rebel deck without the Rebels...but there might be something in this.
A fall back to making Rebels count in the face of Arcane Adaptation being removed or even Zur simply never getting an attack to tutor it, could be a plan. Normally I don't like infinite life as a win-con, as other combo decks don't care about life. But with Necropotence being a target for Zur, I can see some merit here. I was thinking Arguel's Blood Fast is probably the most versatile of sac for Toughness enchantments that Zur can fetch. Its requirements to flip can be fueled by Necropotence life loss. Also Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim is another versatile sac for Toughness, which can of course be tutored with our AA Rebel tutors. Also it must be noted that Lightning Greaves can also be used on Task Force, if you have another creature to swap equip with. Lightning Greaves is an auto include in Zur deck anyway.
On this note if anybody can think of a static card that can return a creature to hand in response to a creature board wipe? Obviosuly a <= 3 CMC enchantment or creature is preferable.
You could base your Arcane Adaptation on whether you have Rebel or Mercenary in your starting sequence. However Mercenary are the poor cousins of Rebels, not being able to actually tutor for another true Mercenary is a big drawback. Plus getting stuck with AA on Mercenaries when your combos are disrupted will feel pretty, pretty, pretty bad.
I'd honestly consider Serum Powder, to highlight the importance of having a Rebel in your starting hand.
I will organize all suggestions in the OP. To add, Gift of Immortality is great with many of the creatures on the list, like Glen Elendra Archmage and Sun Titan, and fetchable by Zur, I think it'd work well with this creature base deck.
I updated the list, and separated the list into creatures, enchantments, and spells for easier reference so you know which can be fetched by rebels and which can be fetched by Zur (assuming 3 or less cc).
So I've mentioned the infinite combos, but actually my favourite style of Commander is creature toolbox. This nomrally is going to include green, for the likes of Survial of the Fittest, Fauna Shaman, Birthing Pod as the heart of these decks.
However here is a real chance to play toolbox in Esper. Passing the turn with all your mana available and reactioning to what your opponents are doing, is definetly my idea of fun.
With this in mind, having at least one answer for what your opponents are doing would make a neat deck. You really need creatures that can do something immediately as you will be reacting to the opponents spells. So anything with tap, I wouldn't consider "answers".
So breaking it down into <= 3 CMC creatures that answer opponents cards:
I play various Zur dekcs for years, normally big creature reanimate, but Vanishing should really be your first Zur target. Its so hard for your opponents to stop what you're doing once you have this and mana untapped. Being such a great toolbox, you can react to board wipes and recover immediately. Animate Dead a Rebel card, and get straight back into control.
Remember its a Rebel deck without the Rebels...but there might be something in this.
A fall back to making Rebels count in the face of Arcane Adaptation being removed or even Zur simply never getting an attack to tutor it, could be a plan. Normally I don't like infinite life as a win-con, as other combo decks don't care about life. But with Necropotence being a target for Zur, I can see some merit here.
I personally feel this way: that this would in fact be a rebel deck but the power of enter the battlefield abilities to make it more of a control/toolbox deck then traditional rebels were. So the commander would actually be Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero even though it's officially Zur kind of like how there's that deck with General Tazri as commander while the actual commander is Zada, Hedron Grinder. But as you say, you need enough of a "Rebel Core" to make sure it remains a functional deck even without Arcane Adaptation.
So I've mentioned the infinite combos, but actually my favourite style of Commander is creature toolbox. This nomrally is going to include green, for the likes of Survial of the Fittest, Fauna Shaman, Birthing Pod as the heart of these decks.
However here is a real chance to play toolbox in Esper. Passing the turn with all your mana available and reactioning to what your opponents are doing, is definetly my idea of fun.
With this in mind, having at least one answer for what your opponents are doing would make a neat deck. You really need creatures that can do something immediately as you will be reacting to the opponents spells. So anything with tap, I wouldn't consider "answers".
So breaking it down into <= 3 CMC creatures that answer opponents cards:
I play various Zur dekcs for years, normally big creature reanimate, but Vanishing should really be your first Zur target. Its so hard for your opponents to stop what you're doing once you have this and mana untapped. Being such a great toolbox, you can react to board wipes and recover immediately. Animate Dead a Rebel card, and get straight back into control.
First of all, major props for this list. Second, I totally feel the creature toolbox route. I would be looking to add copy enchantment to the deck to reduce the cost of rebel searching by 4: this means some of the smallest can do it for free. I also think Illusionist's Bracers is a good card to play in this respect, get even more.
I can see this deck then grinding value out of the combo of Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero + a sac outlet and just keep repeating those enter the battlefield triggers. Of course, Intruder Alarm is the ultimate combo piece, which will enable you to go infinite with any enter the battlefield ability of any creatire with cmc 4 or less. (If you have Lin Sivvi, two training grounds (one copy) and Intruder Alarm on the battlefield). you can even up that number to 6 if the sac outlet happens to be Ashnod's Altar. You can mill everybody out if it's Ashnod's Altar. The combo also works with Faces of the Past which might be the more safe card here anyway, as it has less chance to backfire.
The best part of it all is that I think this might be the biggest Rube Goldberg machine style combo I've seen in a long time where each and every card is also good on it's own.
Damn I need to add this deck to my build list...
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I've made a deck and play tested ten games so far, needing to make alterations each time to get a version that I'm happy with. I'll give examples of how to play, etc as time goes on. But all in all, very competitive and fun for, you the player, but just causes outrage from opponents. People hate it when you can literally answer anything they try and do
I've made a deck list and play tested ten games so far, needing to make alterations each time to get a version that I'm happy with. I'll give examples of how to play, etc as time goes on. But all in all, very competitive and fun for, you the player, but just causes outrage from opponents. People hate it when you can literally answer anything they try and do
Thx for the primer. Yeah, a general who can search for answer is bad enough, worse when even his minions could search and recycle answers. That was, after all, why rebel was hated by the players at the time (also because of Cradle).
I can see this deck then grinding value out of the combo of Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero + a sac outlet and just keep repeating those enter the battlefield triggers. Of course, Intruder Alarm is the ultimate combo piece, which will enable you to go infinite with any enter the battlefield ability of any creatire with cmc 4 or less. (If you have Lin Sivvi, two training grounds (one copy) and Intruder Alarm on the battlefield). you can even up that number to 6 if the sac outlet happens to be Ashnod's Altar. You can mill everybody out if it's Ashnod's Altar. The combo also works with Faces of the Past which might be the more safe card here anyway, as it has less chance to backfire
With Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero, Training Grounds, (Intruder Alarm or Faces of the Past) and Ashnod's Altar you can keep cycling a 3 CMC infinitely.
I could only find Aven Riftwatcher in Rebels which would actually give you infinite life, so you'd need the Arcane Adaptation as well to do a non-Rebel creature that actually kills or some ETB effect on board that also does the trick. But adding Ashnod's Altar to a deck, for this combo could be a plan.
[EDIT]
If you have Lightning Greaves then keep recycling Blightspeaker to kill all opponents.
Alright further to this, I was looking at Enchantments that Zur could get and with Krovikan Plague you could enchant Task Force. You can tap to deal a damage to itself to get +0/+3 to keep it alive for every 2 damage you deal damage to opponents, so this is infinite damage as well. Its a lot of cards now, but you know all naturally searchable stuff.
I can see this deck then grinding value out of the combo of Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero + a sac outlet and just keep repeating those enter the battlefield triggers. Of course, Intruder Alarm is the ultimate combo piece, which will enable you to go infinite with any enter the battlefield ability of any creatire with cmc 4 or less. (If you have Lin Sivvi, two training grounds (one copy) and Intruder Alarm on the battlefield). you can even up that number to 6 if the sac outlet happens to be Ashnod's Altar. You can mill everybody out if it's Ashnod's Altar. The combo also works with Faces of the Past which might be the more safe card here anyway, as it has less chance to backfire
With Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero, Training Grounds, (Intruder Alarm or Faces of the Past) and Ashnod's Altar you can keep cycling a 3 CMC infinitely.
I could only find Aven Riftwatcher in Rebels which would actually give you infinite life, so you'd need the Arcane Adaptation as well to do a non-Rebel creature that actually kills or some ETB effect on board that also does the trick. But adding Ashnod's Altar to a deck, for this combo could be a plan.
[EDIT]
If you have Lightning Greaves then keep recycling Blightspeaker to kill all opponents.
Alright further to this, I was looking at Enchantments that Zur could get and with Krovikan Plague you could enchant Task Force. You can tap to deal a damage to itself to get +0/+3 to keep it alive for every 2 damage you deal damage to opponents, so this is infinite damage as well. Its a lot of cards now, but you know all naturally searchable stuff.
I love the Riftwatcher suggestion: It takes only the card itself besides cards you want to run anyway, whereas task force and outrider en-Kor would be run purely for this combo, not to mention Miren and/or Animal Boneyard.
Does anyone have any more suggestions for the creature toolbox style build? What I have gathered so far:
I went with old-template style Oblivion Ringish creatures that you can actually sac in response to their ability on the stack and have whatever they exile actually stay exiled (That's why Fiend Hunter > Banisher Priest. Counters are obvious. Blink is to safe permanents, as a different form of counter. Not sure about Blinky, maybe he's good maybe he's not. Also not that sure about Aegis Angel: 6 mana for a 5/5 flying is not the best of value but the fact that she can make Arcane Adaptation indestructable for as long as she's around might go a long way in protecting the AA. The late game creatures are the one's who's abilities will help close the game out once you've established control.
I'm also looking for a way to be able to tutor up an instant through the use of a creature. The plan would be to include Pull from Eternity in the deck to allow AA to be recoverd from exile, since Return to Dust and Sylvan Reclamation are frequently played. Whatshisname Minamo Sensei is not an option since he would exile the PfE itself. Only other creature I can think of is Razaketh, the Foulblooded whom, while good (sac outlet + beater + tutor), is a tad bit expensive coming in at 8 mana so I'm not sure the deck could support him. Any other ideas?
I'm also looking for a way to be able to tutor up an instant through the use of a creature. The plan would be to include Pull from Eternity in the deck to allow AA to be recoverd from exile, since Return to Dust and Sylvan Reclamation are frequently played. Whatshisname Minamo Sensei is not an option since he would exile the PfE itself. Only other creature I can think of is Razaketh, the Foulblooded whom, while good (sac outlet + beater + tutor), is a tad bit expensive coming in at 8 mana so I'm not sure the deck could support him. Any other ideas?
Well when you cast the cards from Kaho, Minamo Historian they go on the stack then go to graveyard, so not sure what would be the problem? Are you worried that if Kaho is killed before you get to activate that the PfE is gone forever as well?
I did not realize the cards went back to your graveyard! I though he worked like a multiple choice Isochron Scepter. In that case, I think he fits this deck nicely!
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I like the idea of Arcane Adaptation Zur, but my main question is whether or not you run any other tutorable enchantments and if so, which.
Zur has the problem of creating many 1-card combos + commander and including other enchantments that do that would detract from the allure of an Arcane Adaptation build for me.
I like the idea of Arcane Adaptation Zur, but my main question is whether or not you run any other tutorable enchantments and if so, which.
Zur has the problem of creating many 1-card combos + commander and including other enchantments that do that would detract from the allure of an Arcane Adaptation build for me.
Well Zur has been around since before Commander was a thing, so the number of archetypes and strategies are too numerous to mention them all. Zur is a Tier 1 commander, so are there a more winning deck types with Zur? Of course there is. Stax and I personally already have a big creature reanimation deck with Zur, which I would consider more powerful and consistent than the Rebel Creature Toolbox version I have.
But a classic example is the Astral Slide deck with cycling that people put together because of Zurs ability to get that one card. Do you not play this Astral Slide deck, because a Stax version is better? Its just up to personal preference of "need to win always" and play style I guess. Plus there is always that multiplayer thing of people knowing your power level. Playing Stax? Expect you versus everyone. Playing Astral Slide, probably going to be left more alone.
I think you misunderstand the direction I lean. I like the idea of only having one tutorable enchantment. I'm just asking now many other enchantments you intend to run besides the build around.
I like Oath of Jace and Monastery Siege as tutorable cardflow in Zur but I don't know what other tribal enchantments exist beyond that that would be relevant.
I think you misunderstand the direction I lean. I like the idea of only having one tutorable enchantment. I'm just asking now many other enchantments you intend to run besides the build around.
I like Oath of Jace and Monastery Siege as tutorable cardflow in Zur but I don't know what other tribal enchantments exist beyond that that would be relevant.
Oh right. I don't run any other "tribal" enhancers, just Training Grounds to make the Rebels easier to activate. These are the exact enchantments I have in the deck. You don't want too many enchantments as Zur can only get one a turn, so running too many is kind of pointless. You just want to make sure you have variety.
I did not come up with this idea, the original deck was in fact a Zombie deck from EDHREC, a visitor commented below described the possibility of comboing AA with Rebel. Fetched it with Zur upon the first attack, naming Rebel, and after that maintain control by fetching answers with Rebel searchers. Training Ground makes the fetching even easier.
The obvious weakness of this deck is (of course) the reliance on AA, supplements such as counterspells and Conspiracy are needed to keep the board state. Fortunately, white also doesn't lack spells that could replay enchantments and is overall very high on chant synergy level.
Rebel theme also opens up combo potentials such as (generously provided by the said commenter): Bloodline Keeper or Steward of Solidarity + Intruder Alarm for infinite tokens, add Pious Evangel for infinite life. (flip to Wayward Disciple for infinite damage using sac engine). I believe we can also activate Rebel Informer’s ability on stack with Perplexing Chimera trigger, to gain control of the spell while shuffling Chimera back to the deck for later use.
I open this thread to invite people to gather ideas for the deck. I will start by posting some ideas below:
1 Amrou Scout
1 Blightspeaker
1 Defiant Falcon
1 Defiant Vanguard
1 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 Ramosian Captain
1 Ramosian Commander
1 Ramosian Lieutenant
1 Ramosian Revivalist
1 Ramosian Sergeant
1 Ramosian Sky Marshal
1 Rebel Informer
Mercenary (!)
1 Cateran Kidnappers
1 Rathi Assassin
1 Rathi Fiend
Fetch Support
1 Arcane Adaptation
1 Ashes of the Fallen
1 Conspiracy
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Serum Powder
1 Training Grounds
Counterspell - Creatures
1 Frontline Medic
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Silumgar Sorcerer
1 Siren Stormtamer
1 Soulsworn Jury
1 Spell Queller
1 Venser, Saper Savant
1 Voidmage Prodigy
Fetch-Fetch Creatures
1 Heliod's Pilgrim
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Thalia's Lancers
1 Trinket Mage
Draw - Creatures
1 Ephara, God of the Polis
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
Draw - Enchantments
1 Arguel's Blood Fast
1 Compulsion
1 Kindred Discovery
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
Draw - Spell
1 Distant Melody
Discard/Hand Disruption
1 Augur of Skulls
1 Brain Maggot
1 Kitesail Freebooter
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Mindslicer
1 Ravenous Rats
1 Sin Collector
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Vendilion Clique
Enchantment Protection
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Karmic Justice
1 Renegade's Getaway
Creature Protection - Creatures
1 Aegis Angel
1 Bastion Protector
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Mother of Runes
1 Selfless Spirit
Creature Protection - Spells
1 Ajani's Presence
1 Kindred Boon
1 Make a Stand
1 Rootborn Defenses
1 Shielded by Faith
1 Spirit Bonds
1 Survive the Night
1 Valorous Stance
1 Vanishing
1 Without Weakness
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Leonin Arbiter
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Withered Wretch
Creature Bounce - Creatures
1 Aether Adept
1 Man-o'-War
Creature Bounce - Enchantments
1 Angelic Shield
1 Ghostly Wings
1 Flooded Shoreline
1 Necromancer's Magemark
1 Phantom Wings
1 Sun Clasp
Self Bounce - Creatures
1 Deputy of Acquittals
1 Escape Routes
1 Faerie Imposter
1 Jeskai Barricade
1 Kami of Twisted Reflection
1 Quickling
1 Shrieking Drake
Blink
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Flickerwisp
1 Mistmeadow Witch
1 Nephalia Smuggler
Reanimation/Anti Death - Creatures
1 Karmic Guide
1 Phyrexian Delver
Reanimation/Anti Death - Enchantments
1 Athreos, God of Passage
1 Angelic Renewal
1 Animate Dead
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Gifts of Immortality
1 Necromancy
1 Necromancer's Magemark
1 No Rest for the Wicked
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Puppet Master
Reanimation/Anti Death - Spells
1 Faith's Reward
1 Fated Return
1 Patriarch's Bidding
1 Second Sunrise
Removal - Creatures
1 Banisher Priest
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Devout Lightcaster
1 Fairgrounds Warden
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Lieutenant Kirtar
1 Monk Realist
1 Lawbringer
1 Lightbringer
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Nekrataal
Removal - Enchantments
1 Bound in Silence
1 Darksteel Mutation
Removal - Spells
1 Harsh Mercy
1 Kindred Dominance
Control - Creature
1 Gilded Drake
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Corrupted Conscience
1 Treachery
Retrieval - Creatures
1 Hanna, Ship's Navigator
1 Lost Auramancers
1 Monk Idealist
1 Sun Titan
Retrieval - Enchantments
1 Starfield of Nyx
Retrieval - Spells
1 Crystal Chimes
1 Obzedat's Aid
1 Profound Journey
1 Replenish
Multi-Purpose
1 Brine Shaman
1 Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 Stonecloaker
1 Spellskite
Untap - Enchantments
1 Freed from the Real
1 Pemmin's Aura
1 Power Artifact
Combat - Enchantment
1 Always Watching
1 Cover of Darkness
1 Steel of the Godhead
Combat - Spells
1 Konda's Banner
Tribal
1 Heirloom Blade
1 Herald's Horn
1 Urza's Incubator
Additional Tricks
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Copy Enchantment
1 Faces of the Past
1 Maralen of the Mornsong
1 Perplexing Chimera
Alt Wincon
1 Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Combo: Intruder Alarm
1 Intruder Alarm
1 Bloodline Keeper
1 Merieke Ri Berit
1 Pious Evangel
1 Steward of Solidarity
Combo: Engine/Artifact
1 Paradox Engine
1 Arcum Dagsson
1 Filigree Sages
1 Grand Architect
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Master Transmuter
1 Metalworker
1 Palladium Myr
1 Pili-Pala
1 Voltaic Construct
Combo: Infinite Life #2
1 Animal Boneyard
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Outrider en-Kor
1 Task Force
1 Worthy Cause
Combo: Wheel
1 Jace's Archivist
1 Notion Thief
I personally don’t think we need all the fetchers, just the ones that match the mana curve of your creatures, but extra always helps in a singleton.
Let’s brew!
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
More graveyard retrieval, as the deck live and dies on Arcane Adaptation.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Sun Titan
Starfield of Nyx
I think the go to plan is as mentioned would be Steward of Solidarity/Bloodline Keeper + Intruder Alarm
With Intruder Alarm being a potential key, I like the idea of Merieke Ri Berit.
Gilded Drake also works nice with Rebel Informer. So already we can have a bit of a thief theme.
Paradox Engine can be a pusedo backup plan to Intruder Alarm, but value rather than infinite. For this plan you could get Metalworker and Arcum Dagsson as "Rebel" tutors.
With mana creatures, you can keep fetching "Rebels" with Intruder Alarm or Paradox Engine.
I could see infinite mana being another potential game plan. There are numerous combinations around creatures and enchantments for infinite mana, so working a balance with these could be another game plan.
Creatures: Pili-Pala, Grand Architect, Filigree Sages, Master Transmuter, Voltaic Construct, Palladium Myr, Metalworker, Karn, Silver Golem
Enchantments: Power Artifact, Pemmin's Aura, Freed from the Real, Training Grounds
With infinite mana Zur can get Compulsion so you can get your win-con (I'm sure there is something better).
I would play some number of enchantment animate cards, like Necromancy, Animate Dead or Dance of the Dead, so that Zur can get back some of the key combo creatures.
Just nice <= 3 CMC creatures:
Trinket Mage
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Lawbringer/Lightbringer + Whim of Volrath/Distorting Lens. Especially with Lin Sivvi, this is repeatable creature exile.
Task Force+Outrider en-Kor+Worthy Cause/Miren, the Moaning Well = infinite life.
That's the two classic rebel combo's, no need to skip them here
Also, if you run Rebels, you definitly should run Bound in Silence. It being a Rebel means you can fetch it, plus what most people often overlook is that if you do and put it on the battlefield you're not targetting whatever you're putting it on. So no matter how many boots/greaves that opposing commander is wearing, it's not attacking or blocking
It's more of a cute trick, but if you can fetch it out of your deck then I think [c]Portal Mage[/c[ can lead to a lot of epic moments.
Kindred Dominance also seems good. Konda's Banner is really cheap for it's effect in a tribal deck (+2/+2 for your team if player on your commander).
I don't have lot of other ideas at this moment, but whatever you do, don't forget to cover the basic removal/draw/discard effects in the deck.
Augur of Skulls can do a lot of damage during the upkeep. Mindslicer is even harder: you can keep casting spells through searching rebels and enchantments with Zur so your loss if significantly less than everyone else's though you need a sac outlet to surprise people with it.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Looks like the enchantment/artifact approach is the key here. Our obviously plays the key role of getting the AA and other removal into play, and Paradox Engine dictates good portion of artifact mana to abuse Rebel and Power Artifact. Searching for retrieval/control/reanimation/removal is definitely a plus package, and compare to the original rebel deck during MM block this deck lacks Gaea's Cradle, so there will be mana issues in the beginning for sure, again further pushing the deck towards artifact control.
Perhaps Zur ironically doesn't need too many enchantment in this deck, instead let the enchantments he fetched out to initiate combos.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Aegis of the Gods can be a nice trick, effectively a counterspell if fetched at instant speed and Zur can fetch it too.
Always Watching allows us to attack AND use the rebels.
Animal Boneyard is a findable version of Miren for the infinite life combo.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Its important to think what your sequencing would likely to be on the average game. There are 7 Rebels that can be cast around turn 3. So you're hoping for one of these. Its likely that you cast out Zur turn 4. So your first Rebel activation is the turn Zur attacks. The first Zur target is Arcane Adaptation.
Then the greedy play is to go for Steward of Solidarity and Intruder Alarm. But a creature board wipe leaves you absolutely crushed.
So its very important not to play out more than one Rebel from your hand. These are precious. On this note if anybody can think of a static card that can return a creature to hand in response to a creature board wipe? Obviosuly a <= 3 CMC enchantment or creature is preferable.
[EDIT]Angelic Shield, Escape Routes, No Rest for the Wicked, Phyrexian Reclamation.
Æther Adept, Deputy of Acquittals, Faerie Impostor, Jeskai Barricade, Kami of Twisted Reflection, Man-o'-War, Quickling, Shrieking Drake, Sidisi's Faithful, Silver Drake, Stonecloaker, Whitemane Lion. I'd personally run one enchantment and one creature. So I think the best are: Phyrexian Reclamation and Stonecloaker.
Recruiter of the Guard seems important for getting an actual Rebel card if needed.
Getting out 2 Rebels is another sequence you could do. First Rebel gets another tutor Rebel. Zur can get Training Grounds, so that a double activation is very possible in a turn. So this is when you can set up for 2 creature combos, like Pili-Pala and Grand Architect for example.
Another two creature combo is Jace's Archivist and Notion Thief.
Remember its a Rebel deck without the Rebels...but there might be something in this.
A fall back to making Rebels count in the face of Arcane Adaptation being removed or even Zur simply never getting an attack to tutor it, could be a plan. Normally I don't like infinite life as a win-con, as other combo decks don't care about life. But with Necropotence being a target for Zur, I can see some merit here. I was thinking Arguel's Blood Fast is probably the most versatile of sac for Toughness enchantments that Zur can fetch. Its requirements to flip can be fueled by Necropotence life loss. Also Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim is another versatile sac for Toughness, which can of course be tutored with our AA Rebel tutors. Also it must be noted that Lightning Greaves can also be used on Task Force, if you have another creature to swap equip with. Lightning Greaves is an auto include in Zur deck anyway.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Other options from best to worst:
So 3 CMC being the sweet spot there are 3 Mercenaries that satisfy; Cateran Kidnappers, Rathi Assassin, Rathi Fiend.
You could base your Arcane Adaptation on whether you have Rebel or Mercenary in your starting sequence. However Mercenary are the poor cousins of Rebels, not being able to actually tutor for another true Mercenary is a big drawback. Plus getting stuck with AA on Mercenaries when your combos are disrupted will feel pretty, pretty, pretty bad.
I'd honestly consider Serum Powder, to highlight the importance of having a Rebel in your starting hand.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
However here is a real chance to play toolbox in Esper. Passing the turn with all your mana available and reactioning to what your opponents are doing, is definetly my idea of fun.
With this in mind, having at least one answer for what your opponents are doing would make a neat deck. You really need creatures that can do something immediately as you will be reacting to the opponents spells. So anything with tap, I wouldn't consider "answers".
So breaking it down into <= 3 CMC creatures that answer opponents cards:
Any Permanent Removal:
Necrotic Sliver
Creature Removal:
Banisher Priest
Big Game Hunter
Fairgrounds Warden
Fiend Hunter
Lieutenant Kirtar
Hand Disruption:
Vendilion Clique
Kitesail Freebooter
Sin Collector
(already mentioned)
Brain Maggot
Mesmeric Fiend
Tidehollow Sculler
Artifact or Enchantment Removal:
Leonin Relic-Warder
Graveyard Removal:
Withered Wretch
Stonecloaker (already mentioned)
Countering Spells:
Voidmage Prodigy
Brine Shaman
Silumgar Sorcerer
Siren Stormtamer
Soulsworn Jury
(Lots of Force Spike type creatures, but wouldn't be a fan of playing them myself, too conditional)
Cursecatcher
Judge's Familiar
Martyr of Frost
Mausoleum Wanderer
Patron Wizard
Spellstutter Sprite
Spiketail Drakeling
Spiketail Hatchling
Wizard Replica
(already mentioned)
Frontline Medic
Glen Elendra Archmage
Spell Queller
Venser, Saper Savant
Blink:
Eldrazi Displacer
Flickerwisp
Mistmeadow Witch
Nephalia Smuggler
Permanent Protection:
Spellskite
Planeswalkers:
Liliana, Heretical Healer
General Hate-Bears:
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Aven Mindcensor
Eidolon of Rhetoric
Kataki, War's Wage
Ethersworn Cannonist
Leonin Arbiter
Color specific:
Devout Lightcaster
Other things to add to list Neo =>
Fetch Support
Thalia's Lancers
Maralen of the Mornsong (Rebel search at end of opponents turn to get first crack)
Control - Creature
Gilded Drake
I play various Zur dekcs for years, normally big creature reanimate, but Vanishing should really be your first Zur target. Its so hard for your opponents to stop what you're doing once you have this and mana untapped. Being such a great toolbox, you can react to board wipes and recover immediately. Animate Dead a Rebel card, and get straight back into control.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I personally feel this way: that this would in fact be a rebel deck but the power of enter the battlefield abilities to make it more of a control/toolbox deck then traditional rebels were. So the commander would actually be Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero even though it's officially Zur kind of like how there's that deck with General Tazri as commander while the actual commander is Zada, Hedron Grinder. But as you say, you need enough of a "Rebel Core" to make sure it remains a functional deck even without Arcane Adaptation.
First of all, major props for this list. Second, I totally feel the creature toolbox route. I would be looking to add copy enchantment to the deck to reduce the cost of rebel searching by 4: this means some of the smallest can do it for free. I also think Illusionist's Bracers is a good card to play in this respect, get even more.
I can see this deck then grinding value out of the combo of Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero + a sac outlet and just keep repeating those enter the battlefield triggers. Of course, Intruder Alarm is the ultimate combo piece, which will enable you to go infinite with any enter the battlefield ability of any creatire with cmc 4 or less. (If you have Lin Sivvi, two training grounds (one copy) and Intruder Alarm on the battlefield). you can even up that number to 6 if the sac outlet happens to be Ashnod's Altar. You can mill everybody out if it's Ashnod's Altar. The combo also works with Faces of the Past which might be the more safe card here anyway, as it has less chance to backfire.
The best part of it all is that I think this might be the biggest Rube Goldberg machine style combo I've seen in a long time where each and every card is also good on it's own.
Damn I need to add this deck to my build list...
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I've made a primer, you can check it out here ==>
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/785532-zur-and-rebels-lin-sivvis-crew-for-toolbox-control
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Thx for the primer. Yeah, a general who can search for answer is bad enough, worse when even his minions could search and recycle answers. That was, after all, why rebel was hated by the players at the time (also because of Cradle).
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I could only find Aven Riftwatcher in Rebels which would actually give you infinite life, so you'd need the Arcane Adaptation as well to do a non-Rebel creature that actually kills or some ETB effect on board that also does the trick. But adding Ashnod's Altar to a deck, for this combo could be a plan.
[EDIT]
If you have Lightning Greaves then keep recycling Blightspeaker to kill all opponents.
Alright further to this, I was looking at Enchantments that Zur could get and with Krovikan Plague you could enchant Task Force. You can tap to deal a damage to itself to get +0/+3 to keep it alive for every 2 damage you deal damage to opponents, so this is infinite damage as well. Its a lot of cards now, but you know all naturally searchable stuff.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I love the Riftwatcher suggestion: It takes only the card itself besides cards you want to run anyway, whereas task force and outrider en-Kor would be run purely for this combo, not to mention Miren and/or Animal Boneyard.
Does anyone have any more suggestions for the creature toolbox style build? What I have gathered so far:
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Leonin Relic Warder
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Tidehollow Sculler
//Counter
1 Silumgar Sorcerer
1 Spell Queller
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Frontline Medic
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Flickerwisp
//Other
1 Spellskite
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Aegis Angel
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Kira, Great Glass Spinner
1 Portal Mage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Archaeomancer
1 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Trinket Mage
1 Trophy Mage
1 Noxious Gearhulk
1 Luminate Primordial
1 Sepulchral Primordial
1 Diluvian Primordial
I went with old-template style Oblivion Ringish creatures that you can actually sac in response to their ability on the stack and have whatever they exile actually stay exiled (That's why Fiend Hunter > Banisher Priest. Counters are obvious. Blink is to safe permanents, as a different form of counter. Not sure about Blinky, maybe he's good maybe he's not. Also not that sure about Aegis Angel: 6 mana for a 5/5 flying is not the best of value but the fact that she can make Arcane Adaptation indestructable for as long as she's around might go a long way in protecting the AA. The late game creatures are the one's who's abilities will help close the game out once you've established control.
I'm also looking for a way to be able to tutor up an instant through the use of a creature. The plan would be to include Pull from Eternity in the deck to allow AA to be recoverd from exile, since Return to Dust and Sylvan Reclamation are frequently played. Whatshisname Minamo Sensei is not an option since he would exile the PfE itself. Only other creature I can think of is Razaketh, the Foulblooded whom, while good (sac outlet + beater + tutor), is a tad bit expensive coming in at 8 mana so I'm not sure the deck could support him. Any other ideas?
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I did an article on this babe a while back, one of my favorite cards, and is my avatar as you can see. Check the break down here => http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/760752-kaho-minamo-historian-the-best-all-purpose-tutor
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Zur has the problem of creating many 1-card combos + commander and including other enchantments that do that would detract from the allure of an Arcane Adaptation build for me.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
But a classic example is the Astral Slide deck with cycling that people put together because of Zurs ability to get that one card. Do you not play this Astral Slide deck, because a Stax version is better? Its just up to personal preference of "need to win always" and play style I guess. Plus there is always that multiplayer thing of people knowing your power level. Playing Stax? Expect you versus everyone. Playing Astral Slide, probably going to be left more alone.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I like Oath of Jace and Monastery Siege as tutorable cardflow in Zur but I don't know what other tribal enchantments exist beyond that that would be relevant.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
1 Conspiracy
1 Vanishing
1 Training Grounds
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Rhystic Study
1 Necromancy
1 Stony Silence
1 Grasp of Fate
1 Detention Sphere
1 Aura of Silence
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Ghostly Prison
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith