There always seems to be discussions on this board about etiquette. By that I mean the dreaded 'Spirit of the Format' discussions. The same questions pop up every time. Who is responsible for the fun of the group? Why should I be responsible? Shouldn't my opponents use a better deck? Things of that nature.
The lessons are:
1. Communication can fix many problems
2. Just because you’re having fun doesn’t mean everyone else is
3. Sometimes you win by losing
4. Stay Positive
5. Slow down and enjoy the ride
It can all be condensed into the one rule my LGS uses: "Don't be a -insert expletive here-". Tends to work pretty well, actually.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
1. Communication
2. Communication
3. Communication
4. Communication
5. Communication
You should go into each situation with the notion that there is not any one "correct" way to play EDH, so it all comes down to talking about what each player wants, finding common ground, coming to a compromise, and setting the expectations beforehand. Once everyone has bought into whatever kind of game you are going to play, there is significantly less room for 'feelbad' moments. People also need to learn to be more flexible and and be willing to try new things sometimes; compromise only happens when is an actual "give and take" situation and people are actually willing to give and not just take.
As the target of "Don't be a -insert expletive here-" quite frequently ive learned to make a variety of deck types that suit particular groups, i even keep a precon unchanged to play other precons.
As the target of "Don't be a -insert expletive here-" quite frequently ive learned to make a variety of deck types that suit particular groups, i even keep a precon unchanged to play other precons.
Me too. I've got full on "big baller swag" Kaalia, and a Kaalia with just commons/uncommons. Seems to get a decent enough response.
I find there are two types of etiquette: Internal and external.
Internal: Build a variety of decks. Do not let yourself get caught up in a particular power level. This will limit you in the long run. Find decks that you'll like to play that go up and down the scale. You're around more competitive people, bust out the more spikey decks. Around more casual? Bust out the slightly tweaked or unaltered precon. When you have a variety of options that you like or at least don't mind to choose from, adapting to the situations you find yourself in is so much easier and won't make you feel like you're giving up something just to play a game or two.
External: Always communicate. Always ask questions. See what kind of players you're dealing with. Once everyone is on the same page, things will go a lot smoothly. Or will allow you to make the judgement call if you think it's worth it to play at a certain table or with a particular group.
We have to be mindful of both our and other's fun. I find that if you don't do both of these things, you'll encounter some rough times. We, as individual players, have a right to have fun but we've got to open ourselves up to the possibilities out there to have as much fun as we can. But we also owe others a chance to have fun as well. We have to check if we can reach a compromise with others. We don't want to ruin the experience for others if we can help it. We also have to acknowledge that we may not be able to reach common ground with others all the time and may have to walk away. Sad, but true.
It can all be condensed into the one rule my LGS uses: "Don't be a -insert expletive here-". Tends to work pretty well, actually.
But what does [expletive redacted] mean?
It's a good policy, though, regardless of the difficulty of defining what is precisely meant by [expletive redacted]. In my experience the only people who really need it spelled out for them are problematic.
You should go into each situation with the notion that there is not any one "correct" way to play EDH, so it all comes down to talking about what each player wants, finding common ground, coming to a compromise, and setting the expectations beforehand. Once everyone has bought into whatever kind of game you are going to play, there is significantly less room for 'feelbad' moments. People also need to learn to be more flexible and and be willing to try new things sometimes; compromise only happens when is an actual "give and take" situation and people are actually willing to give and not just take.
I also agree with this. Having a calm, mature discussion about what everyone wants out of the game saves a lot of hurt feelings and wasted time.
I find there are two types of etiquette: Internal and external.
Internal: Build a variety of decks. Do not let yourself get caught up in a particular power level. This will limit you in the long run. Find decks that you'll like to play that go up and down the scale. You're around more competitive people, bust out the more spikey decks. Around more casual? Bust out the slightly tweaked or unaltered precon. When you have a variety of options that you like or at least don't mind to choose from, adapting to the situations you find yourself in is so much easier and won't make you feel like you're giving up something just to play a game or two.
External: Always communicate. Always ask questions. See what kind of players you're dealing with. Once everyone is on the same page, things will go a lot smoothly. Or will allow you to make the judgement call if you think it's worth it to play at a certain table or with a particular group.
We have to be mindful of both our and other's fun. I find that if you don't do both of these things, you'll encounter some rough times. We, as individual players, have a right to have fun but we've got to open ourselves up to the possibilities out there to have as much fun as we can. But we also owe others a chance to have fun as well. We have to check if we can reach a compromise with others. We don't want to ruin the experience for others if we can help it. We also have to acknowledge that we may not be able to reach common ground with others all the time and may have to walk away. Sad, but true.
But being a -insert expletive here- is fun!! At least, so long as the others are playing by the same rules.
This is true, but everyone needs to be on the same page. If it is decided that resource denial is fair game (even for one night), then everyone can be prepared with different deck/card choices. We've had a couple of 'cut throat' nights where there are no holds barred and its kinda fun to play a more vintage style game every once and a while, but we all end up agreeing at the end of the night that that style isn't really what we want as our "normal".
As the target of "Don't be a -insert expletive here-" quite frequently ive learned to make a variety of deck types that suit particular groups, i even keep a precon unchanged to play other precons.
Me too. I've got full on "big baller swag" Kaalia, and a Kaalia with just commons/uncommons. Seems to get a decent enough response.
For me, it's a matter of what you're doing. Like, yeah, I play MLD. No, I don't play MLD just because I'm losing. (Which is stupid af anyway.)
And, no, I don't have some sort of "If you don't deal with my threats, you're dead next turn." call. (That's a Go joke: New players have an annoying habit of announcing "Atari!" as if we were playing chess.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
i've seen so many games ruined by one jerkoff who is pissy because they lost one pod, so they pick on the person who won regardless of board states and someone else wrecks the entire game because they're unhindered while another person doesn't get to play at all and the grudgeholding player is just salty the entire time, making someone else salty in the process
i've seen so many games ruined by one jerkoff who is pissy because they lost one pod, so they pick on the person who won regardless of board states and someone else wrecks the entire game because they're unhindered while another person doesn't get to play at all and the grudgeholding player is just salty the entire time, making someone else salty in the process
Everything is okay as long as we always, always, always, prioritize the U player. In everything. No good ever comes of that person getting left alone...........
My son told the group about my husband's combo before the cards were revealed. It does not seen to break a rule, Is this acceptable gaming behavior to reveal inside information about an opponents deck?
At first glance I would say this is not good behavior. I had a kid that would circle the table "just watching" the game and then he'd announce that "I had (Card 1)" in my hand. To which I would call him out on it, for even though it is not cheating since he was not playing, he was influencing the game. He would then peek at the other player's hand and announce a card from over there all the while with me going "no, no, no, you are missing the point."
The point is that even an outsider should not influence the game. I care not whether it is in my favor. Yes, I do differentiate between "influencing" and "coaching". Coaching is acceptable.
Now as for your son: his heart MIGHT have been in the right place. This is only truly forgivable IF:
He knew the general contents of the other players' decks.
He shared this general information with his father.
The other players knew the general contents of each other's decks as well as the general contents of your son's.
This wasn't a brand new deck your husband had made and playtested against your son and/or you with your son as a witness.
Your son knew about the combo prior to interacting with your husband's deck via an earlier game he played, something online, essentially something that had nothing to do with the inception of your husband's deck nor your husband playing his deck. This includes conversation about building said deck or how it ran between your husband and anyone else other than JUST your son.
If ALL of these are true, I am of the opinion that your son did absolutely nothing wrong. If he broke one of them, it isn't like he broke a cardinal sin, because I assume in his eyes, he was trying to level the playing field (okay, he could have possibly seen the combo coming [from an accidently revealed card perhaps?]and just wanted to save his own butt and didn't have an answer at the time [which would be worse]; but let's assume he had the best intentions).
The main unspoken rule here is that it is only sporting to share information about the deck you are piloting during the game. If someone is attempting to choose a deck by borrowing from someone, it is acceptable to weigh in at this point, especially if you own the deck (though other's who have borrowed/experienced the deck may also way in, as long as they aren't ****s about it). Talking about people's decks post game or nowhere near game time is also acceptable.
EDIT: Sharing obvious information that is available to everyone else about someone else's deck is obviously acceptable:
(commanders have been revealed)"Hey, that player is playing blue!"
"(card name)/(player) is looking like the biggest threat on the board." -Opinion
"You just said you were countering my spell, yet you are showing us a Plains. Are you sure you picked the right card?" -seeking clarification
(Blightsteel Colossus is equipped with Blade of Selves and an overloaded Cyclonic Rift just went off) "He's going to try to kill us all, somebody stop him!" -stating obvious as a cry for help
At first glance I would say this is not good behavior. I had a kid that would circle the table "just watching" the game and then he'd announce that "I had (Card 1)" in my hand. To which I would call him out on it, for even though it is not cheating since he was not playing, he was influencing the game. He would then peek at the other player's hand and announce a card from over there all the while with me going "no, no, no, you are missing the point."
The point is that even an outsider should not influence the game. I care not whether it is in my favor. Yes, I do differentiate between "influencing" and "coaching". Coaching is acceptable.
Now as for your son: his heart MIGHT have been in the right place. This is only truly forgivable IF:
He knew the general contents of the other players' decks.
He shared this general information with his father.
The other players knew the general contents of each other's decks as well as the general contents of your son's.
This wasn't a brand new deck your husband had made and playtested against your son and/or you with your son as a witness.
Your son knew about the combo prior to interacting with your husband's deck via an earlier game he played, something online, essentially something that had nothing to do with the inception of your husband's deck nor your husband playing his deck. This includes conversation about building said deck or how it ran between your husband and anyone else other than JUST your son.
If ALL of these are true, I am of the opinion that your son did absolutely nothing wrong. If he broke one of them, it isn't like he broke a cardinal sin, because I assume in his eyes, he was trying to level the playing field (okay, he could have possibly seen the combo coming [from an accidently revealed card perhaps?]and just wanted to save his own butt and didn't have an answer at the time [which would be worse]; but let's assume he had the best intentions).
The main unspoken rule here is that it is only sporting to share information about the deck you are piloting during the game. If someone is attempting to choose a deck by borrowing from someone, it is acceptable to weigh in at this point, especially if you own the deck (though other's who have borrowed/experienced the deck may also way in, as long as they aren't ****s about it). Talking about people's decks post game or nowhere near game time is also acceptable.
Yeah, I would say this sums up the dilemma. It just depends on the situation of how your son got that information and how/when he revealed.
i've seen so many games ruined by one jerkoff who is pissy because they lost one pod, so they pick on the person who won regardless of board states and someone else wrecks the entire game because they're unhindered while another person doesn't get to play at all and the grudgeholding player is just salty the entire time, making someone else salty in the process
Everything is okay as long as we always, always, always, prioritize the U player. In everything. No good ever comes of that person getting left alone...........
When in doubt? Target the U player.
this is also something to avoid doing.
evaluate current board state, don't just choose targets because someone runs counterspells, or because you don't like that a deck might have ld in it, or a stax effect, or a combo. i get really tired of hearing losing players whine and cry about blue and how broken it is, when really they just weren't prepared. what it does is creates an environment where that blue player CAN take advantage of the game because you don't like aspects of it.
what i see most often is someone who just doesn't like blue, focus the blue player, while that other guy pushes their ***** in and then the blue player (or whatever color player really) just happens to be able to seize the opportunity someone else created, but then they get blamed for the person who for lack of a better word, is an idiot, losing.
i've seen people go 'shields down' to try and kill 'the blue player' only to have something stupid like goat tribal untap and kill them, and then the blue player is still blamed for the loss because of reasons like 'blue is so cheap' and 'i hate counterspells' and 'all blue does is combo'. better yet, frequently i see the blue hater go ham on the blue deck, knock it down to a position where that player either can't recover or is at like 5 health, and then the entire rest of the table is scared by dragon tribal garbage deck, so they ******* obliterate that guy while he whines about how powerful blue is.
Usually I'll prioritize the blue player when they cast a Turn 1 Mystic Remora or a turn 2 Rhystic Study.
Blue is actually one of the most consistent colors for EDH as there are many, many cards that does the same thing (counter target spell) that is scales in all stages of the game as compared to the rest of the colors where their signature ability isn't as abundant as blue for redundency.
13 spells that do the exact same thing. We can't really say the same for other colors, Red doesn't even have that many burn spells for redundancy, nor black for creature removal at the same cost. Even if have, it is hard to find a group that is scale-able. Perhaps this is why in casual circles a number of players will tend to hate out the blue player. Answers at a cheap cost.
13 spells that do the exact same thing. We can't really say the same for other colors, Red doesn't even have that many burn spells for redundancy, nor black for creature removal at the same cost. Even if have, it is hard to find a group that is scale-able. Perhaps this is why in casual circles a number of players will tend to hate out the blue player. Answers at a cheap cost.
I'll be honest, 90% of the counters in my deck are 1U. CMC 3 counters are a little too slow and inconvenient in competitive play when every mana counts in those first three turns. The only CMC 3 counter I run is Disallow.
As a UR player it annoys me that people hate on me so much. I run counterspells and bounce to keep the table in check, everyone complains that they can't play their wombo combo or their 9 mana fatty gets denied. In my deck, I either suspend out a fatty and get it next turn or a few turns later on turn 3 or 4 if I'm fortunate, OR I sit until turn 5 or 6 with very little on the field besides lands and rocks waiting for a sensible time to play my commander without it getting blasted. For those four turns I have zero creatures or defense. When your pod of 5 is all running Sol Ring and Mana Crypt, people are quite thankful for the odd Artifact Blast to slow things down.
So one game I decided not to touch anything with a counter, left people alone. What happened? The Narset turns player combo'd off turn 3 and spent the next 20 minutes taking his infinite turns wittling my opponents down before half of them scooped.
Yep agree with what you said, which is why I said in casual circles most players don't understand the importance of having players to help police the board.
In my meta not all the time we will have blue players though, so most of the time we make do with other methods to prevent others from comboing off, mass land destruction for the win.
Edit:
But that said, I'll attack the blue player especially when I see them having 7 mana untapped. Got to bait out that Cyclonic Rift out fast. Sometimes it is just so tiring to experience 3+ cyclonic rifts in every game, the faster that card comes out the better the magic experience will be. :3
evaluate current board state, don't just choose targets because someone runs counterspells, or because you don't like that a deck might have ld in it, or a stax effect, or a combo. i get really tired of hearing losing players whine and cry about blue and how broken it is, when really they just weren't prepared. what it does is creates an environment where that blue player CAN take advantage of the game because you don't like aspects of it.
Maybe if they did something other than counter my cards, bounce my interactions to make me feel useless, I wouldn't feel so agitated by them. You wanna counter me? Here, I'll give you something to counter. Play with this t2 Scald, make sure you never ever tap out without a Force backup because I'm going to Boil/Omen of Fire you. I get about six different counters of my own, and they are reserved only for counter-warring the U player, or protecting my U hoser. "Keep countering all of my plays...I will run you cards out too, and then you won't win. Now you see how I feel." And then I will Seedtime to refresh myself.
As long as people play these 35+ counter decks, I will keep playing dedicated hate and hard hosers. As long as I'm the only guy at the table to not be on U, I will keep playing Cryoclasm. You keep doing a good job ensuring my Mogg Salvage is always free to cast. I will continue forcing Boseiju, and Samut-via-Cavern-backup, with Sable Stags, Scragnoths, Kavu Chameleons, and River Boas. And I will continue sending these uncounterables and protection-from-you guys at you, as long as you continue trying to make my limited time playing this game miserable.
So, no, don't tell me to stop focusing on the U player sitting from atop his throne of eleven mana and thirty counterspells like he's not the kingmaking threat that chooses who wins and who loses. Years of experience, bad beats, and getting combo locked have shaped my deck building & play strategy to what it is today.
I love these “who’s the *expletive*” threads here. They get my virtue signaling muscles warmed up for a new week at the office.
It’s an incredible contrast going from this discussion forum to the decklist forum on an EDH site. In here, it’s about how to safeguard everyone else’s sensibilities, or how many activations of Doubling Cube you’ve achieved in a single turn. In there, it’s about whether Obliterate or Enter the Infinite is the better haymaker, or questions about what the route to victory could possibly be for a deck running 10-12 6-drop creatures if there is no combo. Some people will even do you the favor of having stuff like Brago stax in their signatures as they go on with the platitudes. Even on this page, the “top 50” list is populated with stuff like Death Cloud, Ad Nauseam, Contamination, and Yawgmoth’s Will. Oh, the pretzels people twist themselves into as they play this game.
I read a lot on this format (probably too much). I also spectate a lot and watch a lot of VOD’s. The contrast between what people preach and what they actually do is just staggering in every setting. I don’t think an opinion has ever been written on what you ought to do that didn’t eventually come around to non-combat and other abrupt win conditions being less wholesome. And at the same time, there seems to be no group ever where at least half the games didn’t end exactly that way – Purphorous, God of the Forge, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, so on.
And I will continue sending these uncounterables and protection-from-you guys at you, as long as you continue trying to make my limited time playing this game miserable.
So, no, don't tell me to stop focusing on the U player sitting from atop his throne of eleven mana and thirty counterspells like he's not the kingmaking threat that chooses who wins and who loses. Years of experience, bad beats, and getting combo locked have shaped my deck building & play strategy to what it is today.
And while you're hating on the U player for playing U, the Ezuri player takes the game because the U player couldn't counter the Craterhoof he played. The Kaalia player drops a T3 Master of Cruelties and takes a player out. Krenko makes hundreds of goblins and kills her own Anger so they have haste. The G player Tooth and Nail's for the win.
The point we're making is that hating the U player out of the game is not always the best play. Read the game. Don't just hate someone for playing a colour just because you don't like it.
If I was the U player and you did this to me, I would not play another game with you.
And I will continue sending these uncounterables and protection-from-you guys at you, as long as you continue trying to make my limited time playing this game miserable.
So, no, don't tell me to stop focusing on the U player sitting from atop his throne of eleven mana and thirty counterspells like he's not the kingmaking threat that chooses who wins and who loses. Years of experience, bad beats, and getting combo locked have shaped my deck building & play strategy to what it is today.
And while you're hating on the U player for playing U, the Ezuri player takes the game because the U player couldn't counter the Craterhoof he played. The Kaalia player drops a T3 Master of Cruelties and takes a player out. Krenko makes hundreds of goblins and kills her own Anger so they have haste. The G player Tooth and Nail's for the win.
The point we're making is that hating the U player out of the game is not always the best play. Read the game. Don't just hate someone for playing a colour just because you don't like it.
If I was the U player and you did this to me, I would not play another game with you.
If ezuri takes off? If Kaalia does what Kaalia does best? If mono-r takes a whole table?
These are all fine. So long as the filthy misery loving island players got what they deserve for years upon years upon years of degenerate play.
You sound like some one I resolved a Choke on before.
There's an article on EDHRec titled 5 Lessons for Commander My Wife Taught Me and I think many people who have these questions should give it a read.
The lessons are:
1. Communication can fix many problems
2. Just because you’re having fun doesn’t mean everyone else is
3. Sometimes you win by losing
4. Stay Positive
5. Slow down and enjoy the ride
Do you agree? Do you have any lessons to add?
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
1. Communication
2. Communication
3. Communication
4. Communication
5. Communication
You should go into each situation with the notion that there is not any one "correct" way to play EDH, so it all comes down to talking about what each player wants, finding common ground, coming to a compromise, and setting the expectations beforehand. Once everyone has bought into whatever kind of game you are going to play, there is significantly less room for 'feelbad' moments. People also need to learn to be more flexible and and be willing to try new things sometimes; compromise only happens when is an actual "give and take" situation and people are actually willing to give and not just take.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
https://archidekt.com/user/71716
Me too. I've got full on "big baller swag" Kaalia, and a Kaalia with just commons/uncommons. Seems to get a decent enough response.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Internal: Build a variety of decks. Do not let yourself get caught up in a particular power level. This will limit you in the long run. Find decks that you'll like to play that go up and down the scale. You're around more competitive people, bust out the more spikey decks. Around more casual? Bust out the slightly tweaked or unaltered precon. When you have a variety of options that you like or at least don't mind to choose from, adapting to the situations you find yourself in is so much easier and won't make you feel like you're giving up something just to play a game or two.
External: Always communicate. Always ask questions. See what kind of players you're dealing with. Once everyone is on the same page, things will go a lot smoothly. Or will allow you to make the judgement call if you think it's worth it to play at a certain table or with a particular group.
We have to be mindful of both our and other's fun. I find that if you don't do both of these things, you'll encounter some rough times. We, as individual players, have a right to have fun but we've got to open ourselves up to the possibilities out there to have as much fun as we can. But we also owe others a chance to have fun as well. We have to check if we can reach a compromise with others. We don't want to ruin the experience for others if we can help it. We also have to acknowledge that we may not be able to reach common ground with others all the time and may have to walk away. Sad, but true.
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter
It's a good policy, though, regardless of the difficulty of defining what is precisely meant by [expletive redacted]. In my experience the only people who really need it spelled out for them are problematic.
I also agree with this. Having a calm, mature discussion about what everyone wants out of the game saves a lot of hurt feelings and wasted time.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
I. But --
No. This is true...
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
This is true, but everyone needs to be on the same page. If it is decided that resource denial is fair game (even for one night), then everyone can be prepared with different deck/card choices. We've had a couple of 'cut throat' nights where there are no holds barred and its kinda fun to play a more vintage style game every once and a while, but we all end up agreeing at the end of the night that that style isn't really what we want as our "normal".
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
For me, it's a matter of what you're doing. Like, yeah, I play MLD. No, I don't play MLD just because I'm losing. (Which is stupid af anyway.)
And, no, I don't have some sort of "If you don't deal with my threats, you're dead next turn." call. (That's a Go joke: New players have an annoying habit of announcing "Atari!" as if we were playing chess.)
On phasing:
i've seen so many games ruined by one jerkoff who is pissy because they lost one pod, so they pick on the person who won regardless of board states and someone else wrecks the entire game because they're unhindered while another person doesn't get to play at all and the grudgeholding player is just salty the entire time, making someone else salty in the process
Everything is okay as long as we always, always, always, prioritize the U player. In everything. No good ever comes of that person getting left alone...........
When in doubt? Target the U player.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The point is that even an outsider should not influence the game. I care not whether it is in my favor. Yes, I do differentiate between "influencing" and "coaching". Coaching is acceptable.
Now as for your son: his heart MIGHT have been in the right place. This is only truly forgivable IF:
The main unspoken rule here is that it is only sporting to share information about the deck you are piloting during the game. If someone is attempting to choose a deck by borrowing from someone, it is acceptable to weigh in at this point, especially if you own the deck (though other's who have borrowed/experienced the deck may also way in, as long as they aren't ****s about it). Talking about people's decks post game or nowhere near game time is also acceptable.
EDIT: Sharing obvious information that is available to everyone else about someone else's deck is obviously acceptable:
(commanders have been revealed)"Hey, that player is playing blue!"
"(card name)/(player) is looking like the biggest threat on the board." -Opinion
"You just said you were countering my spell, yet you are showing us a Plains. Are you sure you picked the right card?" -seeking clarification
(Blightsteel Colossus is equipped with Blade of Selves and an overloaded Cyclonic Rift just went off) "He's going to try to kill us all, somebody stop him!" -stating obvious as a cry for help
Yeah, I would say this sums up the dilemma. It just depends on the situation of how your son got that information and how/when he revealed.
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter
this is also something to avoid doing.
evaluate current board state, don't just choose targets because someone runs counterspells, or because you don't like that a deck might have ld in it, or a stax effect, or a combo. i get really tired of hearing losing players whine and cry about blue and how broken it is, when really they just weren't prepared. what it does is creates an environment where that blue player CAN take advantage of the game because you don't like aspects of it.
what i see most often is someone who just doesn't like blue, focus the blue player, while that other guy pushes their ***** in and then the blue player (or whatever color player really) just happens to be able to seize the opportunity someone else created, but then they get blamed for the person who for lack of a better word, is an idiot, losing.
i've seen people go 'shields down' to try and kill 'the blue player' only to have something stupid like goat tribal untap and kill them, and then the blue player is still blamed for the loss because of reasons like 'blue is so cheap' and 'i hate counterspells' and 'all blue does is combo'. better yet, frequently i see the blue hater go ham on the blue deck, knock it down to a position where that player either can't recover or is at like 5 health, and then the entire rest of the table is scared by dragon tribal garbage deck, so they ******* obliterate that guy while he whines about how powerful blue is.
Blue is actually one of the most consistent colors for EDH as there are many, many cards that does the same thing (counter target spell) that is scales in all stages of the game as compared to the rest of the colors where their signature ability isn't as abundant as blue for redundency.
Example counters at 1UU.
https://magiccards.info/query?q=o%3A%22counter+target+spell%22+t%3A%22instant%22+mana%3D1UU&v=card&s=cname
13 spells that do the exact same thing. We can't really say the same for other colors, Red doesn't even have that many burn spells for redundancy, nor black for creature removal at the same cost. Even if have, it is hard to find a group that is scale-able. Perhaps this is why in casual circles a number of players will tend to hate out the blue player. Answers at a cheap cost.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
I'll be honest, 90% of the counters in my deck are 1U. CMC 3 counters are a little too slow and inconvenient in competitive play when every mana counts in those first three turns. The only CMC 3 counter I run is Disallow.
As a UR player it annoys me that people hate on me so much. I run counterspells and bounce to keep the table in check, everyone complains that they can't play their wombo combo or their 9 mana fatty gets denied. In my deck, I either suspend out a fatty and get it next turn or a few turns later on turn 3 or 4 if I'm fortunate, OR I sit until turn 5 or 6 with very little on the field besides lands and rocks waiting for a sensible time to play my commander without it getting blasted. For those four turns I have zero creatures or defense. When your pod of 5 is all running Sol Ring and Mana Crypt, people are quite thankful for the odd Artifact Blast to slow things down.
So one game I decided not to touch anything with a counter, left people alone. What happened? The Narset turns player combo'd off turn 3 and spent the next 20 minutes taking his infinite turns wittling my opponents down before half of them scooped.
I showed them the Disdainful Stroke in my hand that would have countered Beacon of Tomorrows (he played Enter the Infinite) and subsequently would have caused him to mill himself out of the game the following turn.
They have never complained since.
Modern:R 8Whack R|W White Knights W
In my meta not all the time we will have blue players though, so most of the time we make do with other methods to prevent others from comboing off, mass land destruction for the win.
Edit:
But that said, I'll attack the blue player especially when I see them having 7 mana untapped. Got to bait out that Cyclonic Rift out fast. Sometimes it is just so tiring to experience 3+ cyclonic rifts in every game, the faster that card comes out the better the magic experience will be. :3
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
Maybe if they did something other than counter my cards, bounce my interactions to make me feel useless, I wouldn't feel so agitated by them. You wanna counter me? Here, I'll give you something to counter. Play with this t2 Scald, make sure you never ever tap out without a Force backup because I'm going to Boil/Omen of Fire you. I get about six different counters of my own, and they are reserved only for counter-warring the U player, or protecting my U hoser. "Keep countering all of my plays...I will run you cards out too, and then you won't win. Now you see how I feel." And then I will Seedtime to refresh myself.
As long as people play these 35+ counter decks, I will keep playing dedicated hate and hard hosers. As long as I'm the only guy at the table to not be on U, I will keep playing Cryoclasm. You keep doing a good job ensuring my Mogg Salvage is always free to cast. I will continue forcing Boseiju, and Samut-via-Cavern-backup, with Sable Stags, Scragnoths, Kavu Chameleons, and River Boas. And I will continue sending these uncounterables and protection-from-you guys at you, as long as you continue trying to make my limited time playing this game miserable.
So, no, don't tell me to stop focusing on the U player sitting from atop his throne of eleven mana and thirty counterspells like he's not the kingmaking threat that chooses who wins and who loses. Years of experience, bad beats, and getting combo locked have shaped my deck building & play strategy to what it is today.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
It’s an incredible contrast going from this discussion forum to the decklist forum on an EDH site. In here, it’s about how to safeguard everyone else’s sensibilities, or how many activations of Doubling Cube you’ve achieved in a single turn. In there, it’s about whether Obliterate or Enter the Infinite is the better haymaker, or questions about what the route to victory could possibly be for a deck running 10-12 6-drop creatures if there is no combo. Some people will even do you the favor of having stuff like Brago stax in their signatures as they go on with the platitudes. Even on this page, the “top 50” list is populated with stuff like Death Cloud, Ad Nauseam, Contamination, and Yawgmoth’s Will. Oh, the pretzels people twist themselves into as they play this game.
I read a lot on this format (probably too much). I also spectate a lot and watch a lot of VOD’s. The contrast between what people preach and what they actually do is just staggering in every setting. I don’t think an opinion has ever been written on what you ought to do that didn’t eventually come around to non-combat and other abrupt win conditions being less wholesome. And at the same time, there seems to be no group ever where at least half the games didn’t end exactly that way – Purphorous, God of the Forge, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, so on.
And while you're hating on the U player for playing U, the Ezuri player takes the game because the U player couldn't counter the Craterhoof he played. The Kaalia player drops a T3 Master of Cruelties and takes a player out. Krenko makes hundreds of goblins and kills her own Anger so they have haste. The G player Tooth and Nail's for the win.
The point we're making is that hating the U player out of the game is not always the best play. Read the game. Don't just hate someone for playing a colour just because you don't like it.
If I was the U player and you did this to me, I would not play another game with you.
If ezuri takes off? If Kaalia does what Kaalia does best? If mono-r takes a whole table?
These are all fine. So long as the filthy misery loving island players got what they deserve for years upon years upon years of degenerate play.
You sound like some one I resolved a Choke on before.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.