I think the RC should weigh in. Silver-bordered cards have been rare up to this point because Unhinged and Unglued are old sets, and besides the rare appearance of Frankie Peanuts you'll hardly ever see un-cards. With Unstable and WOTC's expressed commitment to design the set to retain more conventional playability, a question is presented that should be answered about their legality in Commander.
In my opinion, they should set up a whitelist of silver-bordered cards that are allowed for play. Grusilda, Monster Masher for example is a very fair creature with fun possibilities as a commander but the way things are now she runs the risk of being mired in the ambiguous legality of silver-bordered cards in the format. A friend of mine has also utilized Deadheadin his zombie tribal deck to amusing effect without breaking the game. The Countdown Is at One and its ilk obviously shouldn't be at the table, however.
I think there's a place for un-cards in commander, but they should be treated delicately, and I think the RC should have the final say in the matter before Unstable creates all kinds of... unstable situations at pods regarding legality.
I can imagine a "white list" being done in the sense of developing a supplemental card pool of silver-bordered cards to be combined with other current formats thus creating un-formats. I feel that this is probably a direction they're going to wanna go to being as Oracle will be updated to include revision of Unglued and Unhinged (hopefully the Happy Holidays promos also).
I for one would love a globally accepted list of silver-bordered cards. But this will bring many problems. Here are what I consider to be the pros and cons:
PROS:
Having a pre-established list would mean that there is uniformity regardless the playgroup. For example, if you play un-commander online, everybody will be building from the same pool regardless of previous houserules, agreements, etc., which wouldn't be possible with random strangers on the internet.
Everybody would be following the same card list. So, in order to not follow the established card pool, you'd have to have previous agreement from the playgroup in order to proceed. So it would make the process much shorter.
CONS:
If all the silver-bordered cards were added to the card pool, I would be very reluctant to play in that format. For one thing, I wouldn't want to play with dexterity, contest cards, fractions, etc.
It would have to be tested and eventually have a banlist like the current commander card pool. Wizards doesn't ban cards from the commander format, the EDH Committee does. So all of the annoying or cards too broken would be used until someone says otherwise. So games would be too wacky or somewhat serious, depending on your playgroup. So again, it boils down to your playgroup.
I agree with not wanting to play with cards like The Countdown Is at One (likewise Enter the Dungeon). Unfortunately, there was a time where cards like this existed in black-border world. Boy did I hate whenever someone cast Shahrazad...
I think the RC should weigh in. Silver-bordered cards have been rare up to this point because Unhinged and Unglued are old sets, and besides the rare appearance of Frankie Peanuts you'll hardly ever see un-cards. With Unstable and WOTC's expressed commitment to design the set to retain more conventional playability, a question is presented that should be answered about their legality in Commander.
In my opinion, they should set up a whitelist of silver-bordered cards that are allowed for play. Grusilda, Monster Masher for example is a very fair creature with fun possibilities as a commander but the way things are now she runs the risk of being mired in the ambiguous legality of silver-bordered cards in the format. A friend of mine has also utilized Deadheadin his zombie tribal deck to amusing effect without breaking the game. The Countdown Is at One and its ilk obviously shouldn't be at the table, however.
I think there's a place for un-cards in commander, but they should be treated delicately, and I think the RC should have the final say in the matter before Unstable creates all kinds of... unstable situations at pods regarding legality.
There's not any "ambiguity". Silver bordered cards are very clearly not legal by the rules of the format.
The RC encourages house rules as long as your group is in agreement, though, if you want to play them. It's your group you should be talking to, not the RC. Any global legality of un-cards would be a nightmare.
I agree. Silver-bordered cards as legal in commander as it is would cause quite the uproar. The cards would have to be cards that are not ambiguous in the slightest and be very similar to how the game is actually played. Although that would resonate with many players, it would also be fruitless to those who want the wackiness. I'm sort of seeing a pattern emerge in that players would rather leave the EDH format as it is, but are open to an un-EDH format where only the viable silver-bordered cards can be used. The latter would probably be cards previously agreed upon by a playgroup. My prediction is that the un-formats Wizards will push for is the inclusion of all silver-bordered cards.
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I agree with not wanting to play with cards like The Countdown Is at One (likewise Enter the Dungeon). Unfortunately, there was a time where cards like this existed in black-border world. Boy did I hate whenever someone cast Shahrazad...
The Countdown Is as One is much less of a pain than Enter the Dungeon or Shahrazad, though, since the subgame starts you at 1 life and you don't have to do anything special for it.
Most decks that run it would probably end up being something like "5 mana, Gratuitous Violence emblem", since they'll run free and/or extremely cheap burn spells.
It's pretty clear that silver-bordered cards are not legal.
I bought a Grimlock a few months back. I know he isn't legal. I have 5 other decks in case that is a problem. The deck I am making for him is supposed to be fun and thematic, but I fully expect some people will have a conniption over whether it is okay if I play him or not. That's fine.
Yes, I think EDH is a format where many of these cards can flourish, despite being illegal. I think that they add fun wrinkles to the format and that when built fairly they are a positive impact. Don't be that guy that asks to play the illegal card in a super broken deck. It better be fun to face. When you start trying to play something powerful/competitive, then there is a problem.
It's pretty clear that silver-bordered cards are not legal.
I bought a Grimlock a few months back. I know he isn't legal. I have 5 other decks in case that is a problem. The deck I am making for him is supposed to be fun and thematic, but I fully expect some people will have a conniption over whether it is okay if I play him or not. That's fine.
Yes, I think EDH is a format where many of these cards can flourish, despite being illegal. I think that they add fun wrinkles to the format and that when built fairly they are a positive impact. Don't be that guy that asks to play the illegal card in a super broken deck. It better be fun to face. When you start trying to play something powerful/competitive, then there is a problem.
I totally agree. Silver-bordered cards are quite the grey area (no pun intended). And as I've said before, this would be an incentive for me to actually go and spend money on cards and/or participate in booster drafts and/or limited tourneys. It's a real bummer buying cards that won't be used anywhere else. This is why the Conspiracy sets include chase cards so that players would feel they're getting their money's worth drafting these sets. If there's a way to "balance out" or iron the kinks in a possible un-format, then I'm definitely for it. Everyone will have the same references, card pools, etc. and should be able to see eye-to-eye on what's allowable and what isn't allowable. This would still be difficult to achieve online (Cockatrice, for example) since there you can't really use dexterity cards or any other cards like that.
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That card is perfectly fine. It could have been blackbordered.
The problem is with cards where you have to drop dice from x inch.
Or cards that care about the pieces of clothing you are wearing.
Cards that look at the colour of your eyes and cards that require you to yell keywords within 5 seconds.
And one of the worst has to be all the cards with Gotcha!. Those cards are toxic.
In general the bad cards in my opinion are the ones that create "mini-games" that have nothing to do with Magic the Gathering.
That card is perfectly fine. It could have been blackbordered.
The problem is with cards where you have to drop dice from x inch.
Or cards that care about the pieces of clothing you are wearing.
Cards that look at the colour of your eyes and cards that require you to yell keywords within 5 seconds.
And one of the worst has to be all the cards with Gotcha!. Those cards are toxic.
In general the bad cards in my opinion are the ones that create "mini-games" that have nothing to do with Magic the Gathering.
I guess my issue with The Countdown Is at One is all the Shahrazad flashbacks I get whenever I see the text "Magic subgame" on a card...
As for your other points, I can understand how those cards can be "fun" in some circles but annoying in others. I remember when Unglued came out; I was in the 8th grade. I had plenty of "ha ha" moments and I really wanted to make a chicken tribal deck work. I had even assembled a The Cheese Stands Alone + Kaervek's Spite + Academy Rector deck. It wasn't entirely consistent but it was awesome everytime I was able to pull it off. One thing that disappointed me about Unglued was not being able to donate an Illusions of Grandeur with Clambassadors.
Yet, when Unhinged came out, I was in my 2nd year of college. My funny bone still tingled with some of the cards from the set but I was found a great majority of the cards to be annoying. In particular I really disliked the fraction cards. I got the point but they were everywhere. Another thing I found quite annoying was the Gotcha mechanic. The cards that cared about artists were cute because that had never been done before and gave an importance to something else on the card; I found it quite cheeky. However, even that could be a bit cumbersome given all the artists that make the card art for MtG. The minigames were okay, I guess. Depending on the mood they could be fun; staring contests, breath holding contests, etc. could really go both ways. But I can understand how some people don't like those kinds of interactions in a MtG game. Although I disliked Unhinged as a set, some of my favorite silver-bordered cards come from this set: Blast from the Past, Booster Tutor, Duh, Form of the Squirrel, Greater Morphling, Magical Hacker, Meddling Kids, Mise, Now I Know My ABC's, Rare-B-Gone, Richard Garfield, Ph.D., S.N.O.T., Staying Power, Super Secret Tech, Symbol Status, Uktabi Kong, Water Gun Balloon Game, Who // What // Where // When // Why, and Yet Another Æther Vortex.
Unstable on the other hand, from what has been spoiled so far, seems like an amazing set. It's like a double-edged sword though because unless you add those cards to cube or you have a playgroup that allows for silver-bordered decks at the kitchen table in casual games, the cards are gonna be useless after drafting and/or limited. With a now much larger silver-bordered card pool, it should be very feasible to have consistent, fun - yet still competitive, decks that consist mostly of silver-bordered cards. It may be harder to pull off in the commander format since, from the looks of things, the most colors legendary creatures have had so far is 2 (unless you count Grimlock, Dinobot Leader which is 3), so most cards in your deck won't be silver-bordered. I already wanna make a Grimlock, Dinobot Leader tribal EDH deck with dinosaurs, vehicles, and creatures with transform. I would also like to build an EDH contraption deck with as many spells that allow for assembling contraptions. However, the commander for that deck probably won't be a silver-bordered legend, since I'd only have access to at most 2 colors.
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Yeah,I'm actually excited about trying out a lot of these cards. Unhinged was just a joke, it focused more on being funny than playable. This set seems much more like Future Sight 2 with jokes mostly confined to flavor. A number of cards could simply be black bordered, or are only not black bordered because they refer to a mechanic from the set.
The problem is there are miserable cards and cards that are just too out of the box. Arm wrestling shouldn't be ok as the standard, and so having to clear silver bordered nonsense ahead of time is needed. In fact, I'd say clear all "could be black bordered" cards as a group, then anything else on a card by card basis. Saying "can I run contraptions" is fine, but Richard Garfield, PhD should probably be cleared individually.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
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Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I want to be able to play Crow Storm. That card is like living the dream for me since my first ever flying creature I played with in this game was Storm Crow from portal. Now I can Doubling Season stir up a birdemic of epic proportions.
Also, I think The Countdown is at one is much safer than Shahrazad. Dear lord the latter I had played on me as a joke when I was in college during a 4 player casual match and it was like MTG Inception, since he cast another one within the first one.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I want to be able to play Crow Storm. That card is like living the dream for me since my first ever flying creature I played with in this game was Storm Crow from portal. Now I can Doubling Season stir up a birdemic of epic proportions.
Also, I think The Countdown is at one is much safer than Shahrazad. Dear lord the latter I had played on me as a joke when I was in college during a 4 player casual match and it was like MTG Inception, since he cast another one within the first one.
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I want to be able to play Crow Storm. That card is like living the dream for me since my first ever flying creature I played with in this game was Storm Crow from portal. Now I can Doubling Season stir up a birdemic of epic proportions.
Also, I think The Countdown is at one is much safer than Shahrazad. Dear lord the latter I had played on me as a joke when I was in college during a 4 player casual match and it was like MTG Inception, since he cast another one within the first one.
The specific reason Crow Storm is black border, in addition to being a joke, is because they'd have to cost it much higher in black border, due to having been burned by storm before. With Unstable, they can cost it appropriate for Unstable limited, and not give a ***** about every other format because it's not legal there.
I want to be able to play Crow Storm. That card is like living the dream for me since my first ever flying creature I played with in this game was Storm Crow from portal. Now I can Doubling Season stir up a birdemic of epic proportions.
Also, I think The Countdown is at one is much safer than Shahrazad. Dear lord the latter I had played on me as a joke when I was in college during a 4 player casual match and it was like MTG Inception, since he cast another one within the first one.
The specific reason Crow Storm is black border, in addition to being a joke, is because they'd have to cost it much higher in black border, due to having been burned by storm before. With Unstable, they can cost it appropriate for Unstable limited, and not give a ***** about every other format because it's not legal there.
True, storm is a problematic and broken mechanic. But it hasn't stopped them from printing other cards with storm in black-border after that block. Flusterstorm was printed in Commander and only later reprinted in Iconic Masters so many years later. So it wasn't printed in a limited or standard format and it isn't legal in modern. The same could've been true for Crow Storm.
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I feel the o ly cards that will be legal (if any) will be the contraptions and contraption builders. Sword of dnd and mahbe the hist creatures and aumentations. Whule i would love riles lawyer to ve legal, it wont be.
I feel the o ly cards that will be legal (if any) will be the contraptions and contraption builders. Sword of dnd and mahbe the hist creatures and aumentations. Whule i would love riles lawyer to ve legal, it wont be.
I will probably huold a cobtraption deck mtself.
Yeah, I'm definitely interested in building a deck based on contraptions. When everything is spoiled I'd have to see which commander would be ideal for a contraption deck. The host and augment aren't really convincing me as super amazing. So I'd have to wait until all of them are spoiled. But hopefully we'd be able to have legit contraptions in the future. Or at least this will be a returning mechanic. They did print 45 different contraptions though so I don't think that'll be possible. Maybe the contraptions themselves will be legal in the future but only with new silver-bordered riggers in future sets. That could be another possibility.
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I feel the o ly cards that will be legal (if any) will be the contraptions and contraption builders. Sword of dnd and mahbe the hist creatures and aumentations. Whule i would love riles lawyer to ve legal, it wont be.
I will probably huold a cobtraption deck mtself.
Yeah, I'm definitely interested in building a deck based on contraptions. When everything is spoiled I'd have to see which commander would be ideal for a contraption deck. The host and augment aren't really convincing me as super amazing. So I'd have to wait until all of them are spoiled. But hopefully we'd be able to have legit contraptions in the future. Or at least this will be a returning mechanic. They did print 45 different contraptions though so I don't think that'll be possible. Maybe the contraptions themselves will be legal in the future but only with new silver-bordered riggers in future sets. That could be another possibility.
the aume tations do have an infi ite combo (half squirrel half pony)
Riggers will never see standard (which saddens me) but i am also wanting to make cybord tribal
Vile Bile on the other hand.... I have brought up before. If I were to pick this card up without releasing the card.... would I only take 2 damage? If I then flick it against your face repeatedly do you just..... lose the game essentially where I only lose 2 life?
I imagine you just fell in love with Hazmat Suit (Used), then?
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I'm getting worried that WotC have been overlooking those types of obvious things that are being errata-ed later on, like Hostage Taker that received errata to prevent it from targeting itself. What errata did Ordinary get?
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I'm getting worried that WotC have been overlooking those types of obvious things that are being errata-ed later on, like Hostage Taker that received errata to prevent it from targeting itself. What errata did Ordinary get?
The new Oracle text is:
When this creature enters the battlefield, you may exile target non-Horse creature you control that wasn't put onto the battlefield with this ability this turn, then return it to the battlefield under its owner's control.
Regarding these misses, I can certainly understand the concern, though I think there is a bit of leeway with this set. It has been in Design/Development for 7 years and different people worked on it on and off. It is possible someone did catch it and just felt it was intended due to the nature of the set.
I do agree about Hostage Taker though (and Majestic Myriarch for that matter). These things shouldn't be falling through the cracks.
I'm getting worried that WotC have been overlooking those types of obvious things that are being errata-ed later on, like Hostage Taker that received errata to prevent it from targeting itself. What errata did Ordinary get?
The new Oracle text is:
When this creature enters the battlefield, you may exile target non-Horse creature you control that wasn't put onto the battlefield with this ability this turn, then return it to the battlefield under its owner's control.
Regarding these misses, I can certainly understand the concern, though I think there is a bit of leeway with this set. It has been in Design/Development for 7 years and different people worked on it on and off. It is possible someone did catch it and just felt it was intended due to the nature of the set.
I do agree about Hostage Taker though (and Majestic Myriarch for that matter). These things shouldn't be falling through the cracks.
Or maybe this was their plan all along in order to abuse these cards thanks to R&D's Secret Lair?
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I do agree about Hostage Taker though (and Majestic Myriarch for that matter). These things shouldn't be falling through the cracks.
Myriarch isn't a functional errata, it's just supposed to make the language clearer. Technically as it was it was perfectly valid and functionally identical.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Vile Bile on the other hand.... I have brought up before. If I were to pick this card up without releasing the card.... would I only take 2 damage? If I then flick it against your face repeatedly do you just..... lose the game essentially where I only lose 2 life?
It seems as though your prayers have been answered. Vile Bile can no longer be used against you that way. You don't lose points for it touching you, only you touching it. Also, if it's in a sleeve, the sleeve will count as part of the card for all effects and purposes of touching it.
Holiday cards and super rare to obtain cards are yet another reason not to allow silver boardered cards. Anyone who remembers the Nalathni Dragon problem will know what I mean. Essentially, you should never do some sort of super rare give away card that is the only way to obtain a legal copy. They intentionally make these super specific and special give away cards be reprints of existing cards that can be obtained through opening sets or whatever and silver boardered cards.
Think for a second if Un cards were legal in all of commander as a Rules Committee approved rule. Something like Grimlock, Dinobot Leader would be beyond reasonable prices (already $120.00+ on tcgplayer and playable nowhere by default) because the way in which to obtain a copy was ridiculously narrow and very few overall copies were issued.
Special give aways are even more of a reason to not allow these cards in regular commander.
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I do agree about Hostage Taker though (and Majestic Myriarch for that matter). These things shouldn't be falling through the cracks.
Myriarch isn't a functional errata, it's just supposed to make the language clearer. Technically as it was it was perfectly valid and functionally identical.
Except it wasn't. The printed wording is an "intervening if" clause. While the ability to respond by destroying an opponent's creature with one of the abilities still exists (though an argument could be made that destroying one creature with one of the abilities causes the entire ability to do nothing when it goes to resolve with the printed wording), the ability wouldn't even trigger if you didn't have a creature of every ability. Since the template was "weird" in regards to intervening if clauses it may not have played out that way, but the ability at the very least wouldn't have triggered at all if you didn't have a creature with Flying (since it was the ability called out in the clause to begin with. Applying the "the same is true for..." wording means it wouldn't have triggered at all unless every ability listed was present among all your creatures.
Effectively, the printed wording didn't work at all.
Vile Bile on the other hand.... I have brought up before. If I were to pick this card up without releasing the card.... would I only take 2 damage? If I then flick it against your face repeatedly do you just..... lose the game essentially where I only lose 2 life?
It seems as though your prayers have been answered. Vile Bile can no longer be used against you that way. You don't lose points for it touching you, only you touching it. Also, if it's in a sleeve, the sleeve will count as part of the card for all effects and purposes of touching it.
There's no "no longer", both of those rulings are in the Unhinged FAQTIWDAWCC from when the set was released.
I imagine you just fell in love with Hazmat Suit (Used), then?
I essentially completely detest everything about every un set ever made. My issues with the mechanics and playability of the set was my first and foremost issue. Assuming that is put aside I have about 3 other issues I have with Un sets.
1) Many of the cards are annoying for the sake of being annoying.
2) The cards that are worth playing that are not just annoying troll cards are broken in half and probably would have to be banned.
3) The cards that are not completely broken or super annoying are just ok cards. I dont have an issue with someone who has a cool theme deck playing some casual un card because it fits the theme. My issue though is that other than cases where a card is just cool in a list and not broken as ***** / annoying as hell I dont ever want to see it.
So...... I guess I am back to still saying, no I have no desire to ever play against un cards. If the RC wants to make them legal then they need to also ban a big block of them so that wont happen as far as I am concerned. If anyone ever shows up and asks me if they can play un cards and its like.... literally not the worst thing in the world I have ever seen my answer is still going to be no because.... NO I dont want to play against busted ass cards or the trolley as ***** cards. I see no compelling reason to assume that anyone is building with un cards for reasons other than to try to break the game or turn everything into trollfest.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I imagine you just fell in love with Hazmat Suit (Used), then?
I essentially completely detest everything about every un set ever made. My issues with the mechanics and playability of the set was my first and foremost issue. Assuming that is put aside I have about 3 other issues I have with Un sets.
1) Many of the cards are annoying for the sake of being annoying.
2) The cards that are worth playing that are not just annoying troll cards are broken in half and probably would have to be banned.
3) The cards that are not completely broken or super annoying are just ok cards. I dont have an issue with someone who has a cool theme deck playing some casual un card because it fits the theme. My issue though is that other than cases where a card is just cool in a list and not broken as ***** / annoying as hell I dont ever want to see it.
So...... I guess I am back to still saying, no I have no desire to ever play against un cards. If the RC wants to make them legal then they need to also ban a big block of them so that wont happen as far as I am concerned. If anyone ever shows up and asks me if they can play un cards and its like.... literally not the worst thing in the world I have ever seen my answer is still going to be no because.... NO I dont want to play against busted ass cards or the trolley as ***** cards. I see no compelling reason to assume that anyone is building with un cards for reasons other than to try to break the game or turn everything into trollfest.
Yeah, the banning would probably have to be consistent - even in a silver-bordered version of commander. However, maybe the legends (some of them) could be tested out first; if that were the only silver-bordered card in the deck. Not all of them are inherently broken or too wacky. Or at least ban those that are. But that would beg the question, who would decide this? Would it only be the Rules Committee? Would they take input from WotC if they make rules for other Un-Formats? Would they make polls / ask the community? It is definitely a pickle. For the moment even with a larger card pool I don't really see it happening, either. For the moment silver-bordered cards will probably only ever see kitchen table play (or in cubes).
Your hatred for silver-bordered cards aside, what do you feel about contraptions as a mechanic?
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I can imagine a "white list" being done in the sense of developing a supplemental card pool of silver-bordered cards to be combined with other current formats thus creating un-formats. I feel that this is probably a direction they're going to wanna go to being as Oracle will be updated to include revision of Unglued and Unhinged (hopefully the Happy Holidays promos also).
I for one would love a globally accepted list of silver-bordered cards. But this will bring many problems. Here are what I consider to be the pros and cons:
PROS:
I agree. Silver-bordered cards as legal in commander as it is would cause quite the uproar. The cards would have to be cards that are not ambiguous in the slightest and be very similar to how the game is actually played. Although that would resonate with many players, it would also be fruitless to those who want the wackiness. I'm sort of seeing a pattern emerge in that players would rather leave the EDH format as it is, but are open to an un-EDH format where only the viable silver-bordered cards can be used. The latter would probably be cards previously agreed upon by a playgroup. My prediction is that the un-formats Wizards will push for is the inclusion of all silver-bordered cards.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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Most decks that run it would probably end up being something like "5 mana, Gratuitous Violence emblem", since they'll run free and/or extremely cheap burn spells.
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I bought a Grimlock a few months back. I know he isn't legal. I have 5 other decks in case that is a problem. The deck I am making for him is supposed to be fun and thematic, but I fully expect some people will have a conniption over whether it is okay if I play him or not. That's fine.
Yes, I think EDH is a format where many of these cards can flourish, despite being illegal. I think that they add fun wrinkles to the format and that when built fairly they are a positive impact. Don't be that guy that asks to play the illegal card in a super broken deck. It better be fun to face. When you start trying to play something powerful/competitive, then there is a problem.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
I totally agree. Silver-bordered cards are quite the grey area (no pun intended). And as I've said before, this would be an incentive for me to actually go and spend money on cards and/or participate in booster drafts and/or limited tourneys. It's a real bummer buying cards that won't be used anywhere else. This is why the Conspiracy sets include chase cards so that players would feel they're getting their money's worth drafting these sets. If there's a way to "balance out" or iron the kinks in a possible un-format, then I'm definitely for it. Everyone will have the same references, card pools, etc. and should be able to see eye-to-eye on what's allowable and what isn't allowable. This would still be difficult to achieve online (Cockatrice, for example) since there you can't really use dexterity cards or any other cards like that.
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That card is perfectly fine. It could have been blackbordered.
The problem is with cards where you have to drop dice from x inch.
Or cards that care about the pieces of clothing you are wearing.
Cards that look at the colour of your eyes and cards that require you to yell keywords within 5 seconds.
And one of the worst has to be all the cards with Gotcha!. Those cards are toxic.
In general the bad cards in my opinion are the ones that create "mini-games" that have nothing to do with Magic the Gathering.
I guess my issue with The Countdown Is at One is all the Shahrazad flashbacks I get whenever I see the text "Magic subgame" on a card...
As for your other points, I can understand how those cards can be "fun" in some circles but annoying in others. I remember when Unglued came out; I was in the 8th grade. I had plenty of "ha ha" moments and I really wanted to make a chicken tribal deck work. I had even assembled a The Cheese Stands Alone + Kaervek's Spite + Academy Rector deck. It wasn't entirely consistent but it was awesome everytime I was able to pull it off. One thing that disappointed me about Unglued was not being able to donate an Illusions of Grandeur with Clambassadors.
Yet, when Unhinged came out, I was in my 2nd year of college. My funny bone still tingled with some of the cards from the set but I was found a great majority of the cards to be annoying. In particular I really disliked the fraction cards. I got the point but they were everywhere. Another thing I found quite annoying was the Gotcha mechanic. The cards that cared about artists were cute because that had never been done before and gave an importance to something else on the card; I found it quite cheeky. However, even that could be a bit cumbersome given all the artists that make the card art for MtG. The minigames were okay, I guess. Depending on the mood they could be fun; staring contests, breath holding contests, etc. could really go both ways. But I can understand how some people don't like those kinds of interactions in a MtG game. Although I disliked Unhinged as a set, some of my favorite silver-bordered cards come from this set: Blast from the Past, Booster Tutor, Duh, Form of the Squirrel, Greater Morphling, Magical Hacker, Meddling Kids, Mise, Now I Know My ABC's, Rare-B-Gone, Richard Garfield, Ph.D., S.N.O.T., Staying Power, Super Secret Tech, Symbol Status, Uktabi Kong, Water Gun Balloon Game, Who // What // Where // When // Why, and Yet Another Æther Vortex.
Unstable on the other hand, from what has been spoiled so far, seems like an amazing set. It's like a double-edged sword though because unless you add those cards to cube or you have a playgroup that allows for silver-bordered decks at the kitchen table in casual games, the cards are gonna be useless after drafting and/or limited. With a now much larger silver-bordered card pool, it should be very feasible to have consistent, fun - yet still competitive, decks that consist mostly of silver-bordered cards. It may be harder to pull off in the commander format since, from the looks of things, the most colors legendary creatures have had so far is 2 (unless you count Grimlock, Dinobot Leader which is 3), so most cards in your deck won't be silver-bordered. I already wanna make a Grimlock, Dinobot Leader tribal EDH deck with dinosaurs, vehicles, and creatures with transform. I would also like to build an EDH contraption deck with as many spells that allow for assembling contraptions. However, the commander for that deck probably won't be a silver-bordered legend, since I'd only have access to at most 2 colors.
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The problem is there are miserable cards and cards that are just too out of the box. Arm wrestling shouldn't be ok as the standard, and so having to clear silver bordered nonsense ahead of time is needed. In fact, I'd say clear all "could be black bordered" cards as a group, then anything else on a card by card basis. Saying "can I run contraptions" is fine, but Richard Garfield, PhD should probably be cleared individually.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Also, I think The Countdown is at one is much safer than Shahrazad. Dear lord the latter I had played on me as a joke when I was in college during a 4 player casual match and it was like MTG Inception, since he cast another one within the first one.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Crow Storm is legit black-bordered. The only reason it's silver-bordered is because it's literally a joke. But mechanically it's viable. Many other cards make tokens of actual cards like Cloudseeder, Goldmeadow Lookout, Kher Keep, Llanowar Mentor, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher, Skirk Ridge Exhumer, Sliversmith, and Sparkspitter. Wizards should really consider black-bordering viable un-cards in the future like they did with The Cheese Stands Alone and Barren Glory. But only 1 card out of 228 is not really that high a percentage...
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True, storm is a problematic and broken mechanic. But it hasn't stopped them from printing other cards with storm in black-border after that block. Flusterstorm was printed in Commander and only later reprinted in Iconic Masters so many years later. So it wasn't printed in a limited or standard format and it isn't legal in modern. The same could've been true for Crow Storm.
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I will probably huold a cobtraption deck mtself.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Yeah, I'm definitely interested in building a deck based on contraptions. When everything is spoiled I'd have to see which commander would be ideal for a contraption deck. The host and augment aren't really convincing me as super amazing. So I'd have to wait until all of them are spoiled. But hopefully we'd be able to have legit contraptions in the future. Or at least this will be a returning mechanic. They did print 45 different contraptions though so I don't think that'll be possible. Maybe the contraptions themselves will be legal in the future but only with new silver-bordered riggers in future sets. That could be another possibility.
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Riggers will never see standard (which saddens me) but i am also wanting to make cybord tribal
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WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I imagine you just fell in love with Hazmat Suit (Used), then?
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I'm getting worried that WotC have been overlooking those types of obvious things that are being errata-ed later on, like Hostage Taker that received errata to prevent it from targeting itself. What errata did Ordinary get?
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Regarding these misses, I can certainly understand the concern, though I think there is a bit of leeway with this set. It has been in Design/Development for 7 years and different people worked on it on and off. It is possible someone did catch it and just felt it was intended due to the nature of the set.
I do agree about Hostage Taker though (and Majestic Myriarch for that matter). These things shouldn't be falling through the cracks.
Or maybe this was their plan all along in order to abuse these cards thanks to R&D's Secret Lair?
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Myriarch isn't a functional errata, it's just supposed to make the language clearer. Technically as it was it was perfectly valid and functionally identical.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
It seems as though your prayers have been answered. Vile Bile can no longer be used against you that way. You don't lose points for it touching you, only you touching it. Also, if it's in a sleeve, the sleeve will count as part of the card for all effects and purposes of touching it.
I was trying to find some info concerning how Happy Holidays pictures into silver-bordered land and the answer is "yes". Straight from MaRo himself:
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/111262611883/as-un-rules-manager-is-unhinged-classed-as-an
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/56674242883/in-rules-question-does-spatula-of-the-ages-apply
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/111347259083/does-spatula-of-the-ages-affect-just-un-set-cards
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/105934401863/re-spatula-of-the-ages-does-it-work-with-other
Now, the question still remains as to whether the Happy Holidays promos as well as the Hascon promos get added to Oracle with the update for the 3 UnSets remains to be answered.
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/165564862203/will-the-hascon-un-promo-cards-get-gatherer-pages
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/163741851898/will-the-hascon-promos-and-rulings-of-said-cards
Nalathni Dragon, which was only available at DragonCon, appears in the official Gatherer as "Promo Set for Gatherer", same as Windseeker Centaur and Sewers of Estark, both of which could only be obtained from the books. So maybe by that reasoning Grimlock, Dinobot Leader and Nerf War will also be included? Anyways, I'm kind of bummed I didn't know that you could also purchase the 3 Hascon promos in the box as the Hasbro website for a limited time. For only $29.99! Had I known I would've jumped on that in a heartbeat! And not even to resell at the ridiculous prices people are selling them on eBay for. But to actually play with them. Sword of Dungeons & Dragons and Grimlock, Dinobot Leader alone were worth it.
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Effectively, the printed wording didn't work at all.
I essentially completely detest everything about every un set ever made. My issues with the mechanics and playability of the set was my first and foremost issue. Assuming that is put aside I have about 3 other issues I have with Un sets.
1) Many of the cards are annoying for the sake of being annoying.
2) The cards that are worth playing that are not just annoying troll cards are broken in half and probably would have to be banned.
3) The cards that are not completely broken or super annoying are just ok cards. I dont have an issue with someone who has a cool theme deck playing some casual un card because it fits the theme. My issue though is that other than cases where a card is just cool in a list and not broken as ***** / annoying as hell I dont ever want to see it.
So...... I guess I am back to still saying, no I have no desire to ever play against un cards. If the RC wants to make them legal then they need to also ban a big block of them so that wont happen as far as I am concerned. If anyone ever shows up and asks me if they can play un cards and its like.... literally not the worst thing in the world I have ever seen my answer is still going to be no because.... NO I dont want to play against busted ass cards or the trolley as ***** cards. I see no compelling reason to assume that anyone is building with un cards for reasons other than to try to break the game or turn everything into trollfest.
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[Modern] Allies
Yeah, the banning would probably have to be consistent - even in a silver-bordered version of commander. However, maybe the legends (some of them) could be tested out first; if that were the only silver-bordered card in the deck. Not all of them are inherently broken or too wacky. Or at least ban those that are. But that would beg the question, who would decide this? Would it only be the Rules Committee? Would they take input from WotC if they make rules for other Un-Formats? Would they make polls / ask the community? It is definitely a pickle. For the moment even with a larger card pool I don't really see it happening, either. For the moment silver-bordered cards will probably only ever see kitchen table play (or in cubes).
Your hatred for silver-bordered cards aside, what do you feel about contraptions as a mechanic?
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