Okay lets assume that Draconic Dominatiion gave us 37 lands that made possibly the greatest mana base for 5 color. Let's assume for a minute there were 37 lands that produced 5 colors with no drawback. What is the set missing? It has draw power, it has big creatures, The creatures do stuff and most have some form of synergy. Yet every time i play i feel like it is missing something. I am currently 4-4 with the deck, so that should not be it. But i feel there is still something that I could add to rally push it over the top. Decks to me are only finished when they feel finished (Does not mean they can not be upgraded, but i mean really feel like i finished the deck.
I replaced the mana base (or more so replaced 34/37 lands) and for the rest of the deck kept 44% (So in total i have replaced 57 cards. It feels more complete than when i had the base deck as it was, but it still feels like it is missing something and I want to see what the deck was missing originally to see if maybe i could fix that with my current build. Maybe i have fixed that and just do not realize it. Maybe the reason it doe snot feel complete is by fixing one problem i caused another.
I feel like the clunkiness of the manabase is it. Theoretically the cost reduction should make it much more feasible to play a deck full of 5 and 6 drops when they cost 4-5, but the lands entering tapped makes you still feel like you're playing these cards on turn 6 at times.
Oh wait, you meant assuming a perfect manabase. I think in this case it is the fact that it is a beatdown focused tribal deck.. There's probably a limit as to how good that can be.
I feel like the clunkiness of the manabase is it. Theoretically the cost reduction should make it much more feasible to play a deck full of 5 and 6 drops when they cost 4-5, but the lands entering tapped makes you still feel like you're playing these cards on turn 6 at times.
Oh wait, you meant assuming a perfect manabase. I think in this case it is the fact that it is a beatdown focused tribal deck.. There's probably a limit as to how good that can be.
I guess Beatdown in a place where control and combo reigns supreme, you have to hope for the best. (At least dragons pack a punch.)
maybe that is why it feels incomplete, I am not liking the lack of control it has.
It needs a few more tricks to help you get past various problems. Cards like Sneak Attack, Survival of the Fittest and a Reanimate-based package. This should help you be able to cycle through more stuff, but it isn't a cheap fix, money-wise.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
It needs a few more tricks to help you get past various problems. Cards like Sneak Attack, Survival of the Fittest and a Reanimate-based package. This should help you be able to cycle through more stuff, but it isn't a cheap fix, money-wise.
Hm, well i d need to pic up a sneak attack anyway. I guess I could consider it an investment as I have a few decks that will use it. (Surprisingly enough, my wizards will use it, well at the moment they will be, it might not pan out the way I want it to)
It needs a few more tricks to help you get past various problems. Cards like Sneak Attack, Survival of the Fittest and a Reanimate-based package. This should help you be able to cycle through more stuff, but it isn't a cheap fix, money-wise.
Hmm reanimate seems interesting. Would it be effective with the Ur Dragon though? I'd be interested to test this, what other cards would you suggest?
* The complete lack of cheap, instant speed answers are suicide in EDH.
* There's no way for the deck to really "explode". Even with your dragons always costing 1 less and even if you get lucky enough to ramp a bunch of lands out you're usually only gonna throw down one dragon a turn which is not how to really get anywhere in a multiplayer game. Like, they could've made Patriarch's Bidding not go up in price but I guess they felt the patriarchy is a very problematic presence in Otaria.
* Speaking of Patriarch's Bidding there's not a whole lot of recursion which lowers the durability of the deck even further and also makes Scion of the Ur-Dragon a nonsensical inclusion in the deck. It's like throwing entomb in a deck for no reason.
It needs a few more tricks to help you get past various problems. Cards like Sneak Attack, Survival of the Fittest and a Reanimate-based package. This should help you be able to cycle through more stuff, but it isn't a cheap fix, money-wise.
Hmm reanimate seems interesting. Would it be effective with the Ur Dragon though? I'd be interested to test this, what other cards would you suggest?
It doesn't work with Ur-Dragon's Eminence but some reanimation cards like the classic, Animate Dead, Necromancy and Rise of the Dark Realms all help you have longevity. In a deck built around giant haymakers, you NEED some reanimation.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
* The complete lack of cheap, instant speed answers are suicide in EDH.
* There's no way for the deck to really "explode". Even with your dragons always costing 1 less and even if you get lucky enough to ramp a bunch of lands out you're usually only gonna throw down one dragon a turn which is not how to really get anywhere in a multiplayer game. Like, they could've made Patriarch's Bidding not go up in price but I guess they felt the patriarchy is a very problematic presence in Otaria.
* Speaking of Patriarch's Bidding there's not a whole lot of recursion which lowers the durability of the deck even further and also makes Scion of the Ur-Dragon a nonsensical inclusion in the deck. It's like throwing entomb in a deck for no reason.
no way to explode? Tell that to drippjng e dragkns all ostibg 7+
Urzas oncubator. Ur dragon and the two tbings i cljded that also lower drago cost. My dragons can pitentially cost 6 less.
Kokusho, the Evening Star (wait for iconic masters to be released first its in that and will be aproximately half the price of $16) Balefire Dragon (i would get one while its cheap since its confirmed to not be in iconic masters.) Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund (too late unfortunately the jump already happened due to not being in iconic masters)
lands
(remove several of the enter tapped lands asap0
shock lands if you have em (battle for zendikar lands are budget options.)
fetchlands if you have em (mirage fetchlands for budget bad news they enter tapped) Cavern of Souls (congradulations if you got one during the MM3 starting while it was cheaper)
For normal split cards it's [c]Left Side Name // Right Side Name[/c] with a space between the names and the // .
Example: [c]Assault // Battery[/c] → Assault // Battery
For aftermath cards it's [c]Top Side Name // Bottom Side Name[/c] with a space between the names and the // .
Example: [c]Heaven // Earth[/c] → Heaven // Earth
For the sake of completion, for a certain silver bordered card it's [c]Who/What/When/Where/Why[/c] → Who/What/When/Where/Why
Gonna have to disagree with you on those walkers. Sarkhan Unbroken is inferior to Sarkhan the Mad unless you also have a doubling season in the deck. More often than not, Sarkhan Unbroken is a generic 4/4 dragon token that doesn't get the ur-dragon discount while Sarkhan the Mad is often a gigantic punch in the jaw. Nicol Bolas has little place in a dragon tribal beatdown deck as his abilities don't really synergize with it and draws so much hate you will lack the means to protect him from that he's really just an over-costed Stolen Goods/exile Unnerve. He's a better fit as a finisher in a control deck.
As for lands I'd say just the usual five color stuff. The best you got but try to find room for basics. You're gonna want something out of a Path to Exile.
Gonna have to disagree with you on those walkers. Sarkhan Unbroken is inferior to Sarkhan the Mad unless you also have a doubling season in the deck. More often than not, Sarkhan Unbroken is a generic 4/4 dragon token that doesn't get the ur-dragon discount while Sarkhan the Mad is often a gigantic punch in the jaw. Nicol Bolas has little place in a dragon tribal beatdown deck as his abilities don't really synergize with it and draws so much hate you will lack the means to protect him from that he's really just an over-costed Stolen Goods/exile Unnerve. He's a better fit as a finisher in a control deck.
As for lands I'd say just the usual five color stuff. The best you got but try to find room for basics. You're gonna want something out of a Path to Exile.
I use unbroken, but mainly his +1. Extra mana and a draw, So maybe it is an over-costed draw spell, but if i have a few dragons out i might have the sizable army needed to protect him. ge him to 8 and then use the -8.
granted even if i don't, he does provide a target they have to deal with. A dragon tribal deck would love to get all the dragons out.
* The complete lack of cheap, instant speed answers are suicide in EDH.
* There's no way for the deck to really "explode". Even with your dragons always costing 1 less and even if you get lucky enough to ramp a bunch of lands out you're usually only gonna throw down one dragon a turn which is not how to really get anywhere in a multiplayer game. Like, they could've made Patriarch's Bidding not go up in price but I guess they felt the patriarchy is a very problematic presence in Otaria.
* Speaking of Patriarch's Bidding there's not a whole lot of recursion which lowers the durability of the deck even further and also makes Scion of the Ur-Dragon a nonsensical inclusion in the deck. It's like throwing entomb in a deck for no reason.
no way to explode? Tell that to drippjng e dragkns all ostibg 7+
Urzas oncubator. Ur dragon and the two tbings i cljded that also lower drago cost. My dragons can pitentially cost 6 less.
Then you so have fist of suns.
As well as I can understand you (please Apple provide an option so people can remove autocorrect from their damned iPhones), that's still not explosive, unless you have a haste enabler. There is no threat you can drop that I can't answer, so you're essentially hoping that your threats won't draw removal.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Gonna have to disagree with you on those walkers. Sarkhan Unbroken is inferior to Sarkhan the Mad unless you also have a doubling season in the deck. More often than not, Sarkhan Unbroken is a generic 4/4 dragon token that doesn't get the ur-dragon discount while Sarkhan the Mad is often a gigantic punch in the jaw. Nicol Bolas has little place in a dragon tribal beatdown deck as his abilities don't really synergize with it and draws so much hate you will lack the means to protect him from that he's really just an over-costed Stolen Goods/exile Unnerve. He's a better fit as a finisher in a control deck.
As for lands I'd say just the usual five color stuff. The best you got but try to find room for basics. You're gonna want something out of a Path to Exile.
I added those walkers for reasons I know they are not the best choices for the deck but they have reasons
This sarkhan +1 is card draw and mana fixing a must for any 5 color deck
And this bolas is immense in edh especially the +1 it's Karn's +4 but to all opponents and one more and the plus +2 you can steal any spell protect him long enough you can sweep the board of opponents nonland stuff permanently.
Unbroken Sarkhan was beautiful in my Intet, the dreamer because it had doubling season which also went hand in hand with the token copy makers like Rite of Replication and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and part of me still wishes I had any room for the two in my current the Ur-Dragon build. For now, I am on team Sarkhan the Mad.
Got some extensive play with my ur dragon today so these have proven to be the most useful in my build outside the precon.
* Steely Resolve pretty much won me a game. Only 2 mana to protect my dragons is great even if its with shroud as the only thing I would even target them with is Lightning Greaves.
* Temur Ascendancy is tricky to cast but fulfills two functions that are very important to the deck.
* Sarkhan the Mad is the best Sarkhan Planeswalker. Seriously, hit someone big time with the ur dragon and a friend or two then drop this guy down for a second fist to the throat. His other 2 abilities are useful too if he sticks around after basically killing someone.
* Vampiric Tutor and Demonic Tutor are understandably very handy and there's no shame in even using them to fix your mana. It helped me out a lot.
Unbroken Sarkhan was beautiful in my Intet, the dreamer because it had doubling season which also went hand in hand with the token copy makers like Rite of Replication and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and part of me still wishes I had any room for the two in my current the Ur-Dragon build. For now, I am on team Sarkhan the Mad.
Got some extensive play with my ur dragon today so these have proven to be the most useful in my build outside the precon.
* Steely Resolve pretty much won me a game. Only 2 mana to protect my dragons is great even if its with shroud as the only thing I would even target them with is Lightning Greaves.
* Temur Ascendancy is tricky to cast but fulfills two functions that are very important to the deck.
* Sarkhan the Mad is the best Sarkhan Planeswalker. Seriously, hit someone big time with the ur dragon and a friend or two then drop this guy down for a second fist to the throat. His other 2 abilities are useful too if he sticks around after basically killing someone.
* Vampiric Tutor and Demonic Tutor are understandably very handy and there's no shame in even using them to fix your mana. It helped me out a lot.
* Sylvan Library especially if you plan to stack the deck in a Ur-Dragon attack trigger's favor.
* And finally, while Earthquake is good in a flying based deck, Fault line is better.
Sadly Vampiric Tutor and Sylvan Library are a no go. I look at the mount of life my deck would remove from my total if I took advanatge of each card, my land base alone removes 30 (10 fetches and 10 shocks) I rather not play more spells that drain more life. (Sylvan was in the deck but i took it out)
* The complete lack of cheap, instant speed answers are suicide in EDH.
* There's no way for the deck to really "explode". Even with your dragons always costing 1 less and even if you get lucky enough to ramp a bunch of lands out you're usually only gonna throw down one dragon a turn which is not how to really get anywhere in a multiplayer game. Like, they could've made Patriarch's Bidding not go up in price but I guess they felt the patriarchy is a very problematic presence in Otaria.
* Speaking of Patriarch's Bidding there's not a whole lot of recursion which lowers the durability of the deck even further and also makes Scion of the Ur-Dragon a nonsensical inclusion in the deck. It's like throwing entomb in a deck for no reason.
no way to explode? Tell that to drippjng e dragkns all ostibg 7+
Urzas oncubator. Ur dragon and the two tbings i cljded that also lower drago cost. My dragons can pitentially cost 6 less.
Then you so have fist of suns.
As well as I can understand you (please Apple provide an option so people can remove autocorrect from their damned iPhones), that's still not explosive, unless you have a haste enabler. There is no threat you can drop that I can't answer, so you're essentially hoping that your threats won't draw removal.
I was actually on my phone which does not have a spell check. (Turned it off for that exact reason I don't like turning certain words like "didnt" into something very inappropriate.
But at the same time my keypad is so small I make mass typos while on my phone. You can probably see the difference from my phone and my computer.
I replaced the mana base (or more so replaced 34/37 lands) and for the rest of the deck kept 44% (So in total i have replaced 57 cards. It feels more complete than when i had the base deck as it was, but it still feels like it is missing something and I want to see what the deck was missing originally to see if maybe i could fix that with my current build. Maybe i have fixed that and just do not realize it. Maybe the reason it doe snot feel complete is by fixing one problem i caused another.
DECK
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/784036-gashnaws-the-ur-dragon
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Oh wait, you meant assuming a perfect manabase. I think in this case it is the fact that it is a beatdown focused tribal deck.. There's probably a limit as to how good that can be.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
I guess Beatdown in a place where control and combo reigns supreme, you have to hope for the best. (At least dragons pack a punch.)
maybe that is why it feels incomplete, I am not liking the lack of control it has.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Hm, well i d need to pic up a sneak attack anyway. I guess I could consider it an investment as I have a few decks that will use it. (Surprisingly enough, my wizards will use it, well at the moment they will be, it might not pan out the way I want it to)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Temur Ascendancy, for example.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
THAT IS A GREAT CARD!
Not only doe sit give me haste but big guys like my dragons allow me to draw.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Dragonstorm
Anguished Unmaking
Balefire Dragon(possible the most notable absence from the base deck)
Signal the Clans
Breaking // Entering
Selvala's Stampede (this card is nuts)
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Dragonlord Dromoka
Bogardan Hellkite
Temur Ascendancy
Gaze of Granite
Dissolve
Boros Charm
Fearsome Awakening
Sarkhan's Triumph
Crackling Doom
Dissipate
Utter End
Dragonlord Atarka
Numot, the Devastator
Some of these won't make the cut in the long run but they've all been fun and done work.
Edit: ***** how do we tag split cards?
Hmm reanimate seems interesting. Would it be effective with the Ur Dragon though? I'd be interested to test this, what other cards would you suggest?
* There's no way for the deck to really "explode". Even with your dragons always costing 1 less and even if you get lucky enough to ramp a bunch of lands out you're usually only gonna throw down one dragon a turn which is not how to really get anywhere in a multiplayer game. Like, they could've made Patriarch's Bidding not go up in price but I guess they felt the patriarchy is a very problematic presence in Otaria.
* Speaking of Patriarch's Bidding there's not a whole lot of recursion which lowers the durability of the deck even further and also makes Scion of the Ur-Dragon a nonsensical inclusion in the deck. It's like throwing entomb in a deck for no reason.
It doesn't work with Ur-Dragon's Eminence but some reanimation cards like the classic, Animate Dead, Necromancy and Rise of the Dark Realms all help you have longevity. In a deck built around giant haymakers, you NEED some reanimation.
Urzas oncubator. Ur dragon and the two tbings i cljded that also lower drago cost. My dragons can pitentially cost 6 less.
Then you so have fist of suns.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Kokusho, the Evening Star (wait for iconic masters to be released first its in that and will be aproximately half the price of $16)
Balefire Dragon (i would get one while its cheap since its confirmed to not be in iconic masters.)
Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund (too late unfortunately the jump already happened due to not being in iconic masters)
instants
sorceries
Artifacts
Chromatic Lantern (if you have it or got yidris deck eariler put it in.)
Urza's Incubator (did you get it cheap? if so put it in.)
ofcoarse what ever signets you have.
amulet of vigor (if you can't let go of the enter tapped lands.)
enchantments
Mirari's Wake (thanks to the cats deck this is a little more afordable)
planeswalkers
lands
(remove several of the enter tapped lands asap0
shock lands if you have em (battle for zendikar lands are budget options.)
fetchlands if you have em (mirage fetchlands for budget bad news they enter tapped)
Cavern of Souls (congradulations if you got one during the MM3 starting while it was cheaper)
Terramorphic Expanse and evolving wilds (GET THESE IN ASAP NO ACCEPTIONS!!!)
For normal split cards it's [c]Left Side Name // Right Side Name[/c] with a space between the names and the // .
Example: [c]Assault // Battery[/c] → Assault // Battery
For aftermath cards it's [c]Top Side Name // Bottom Side Name[/c] with a space between the names and the // .
Example: [c]Heaven // Earth[/c] → Heaven // Earth
For the sake of completion, for a certain silver bordered card it's [c]Who/What/When/Where/Why[/c] → Who/What/When/Where/Why
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Gonna have to disagree with you on those walkers. Sarkhan Unbroken is inferior to Sarkhan the Mad unless you also have a doubling season in the deck. More often than not, Sarkhan Unbroken is a generic 4/4 dragon token that doesn't get the ur-dragon discount while Sarkhan the Mad is often a gigantic punch in the jaw. Nicol Bolas has little place in a dragon tribal beatdown deck as his abilities don't really synergize with it and draws so much hate you will lack the means to protect him from that he's really just an over-costed Stolen Goods/exile Unnerve. He's a better fit as a finisher in a control deck.
As for lands I'd say just the usual five color stuff. The best you got but try to find room for basics. You're gonna want something out of a Path to Exile.
I use unbroken, but mainly his +1. Extra mana and a draw, So maybe it is an over-costed draw spell, but if i have a few dragons out i might have the sizable army needed to protect him. ge him to 8 and then use the -8.
granted even if i don't, he does provide a target they have to deal with. A dragon tribal deck would love to get all the dragons out.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
1 Thought Scour
1 Unburial Rites
1 Victimize
1 Faithless Looting
1 Zombify
1 Rescue from the Underworld
1 Reanimate
1 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Commune with the Gods
1 Entomb
1 Animate Dead
1 Buried Alive
1 Feldon of the third path
1 Life // Death
Which ones to keep, what am I forgetting? I am afraid that if I add too much I won't have enough dragons to play with
As well as I can understand you (please Apple provide an option so people can remove autocorrect from their damned iPhones), that's still not explosive, unless you have a haste enabler. There is no threat you can drop that I can't answer, so you're essentially hoping that your threats won't draw removal.
On phasing:
I added those walkers for reasons I know they are not the best choices for the deck but they have reasons
This sarkhan +1 is card draw and mana fixing a must for any 5 color deck
And this bolas is immense in edh especially the +1 it's Karn's +4 but to all opponents and one more and the plus +2 you can steal any spell protect him long enough you can sweep the board of opponents nonland stuff permanently.
Got some extensive play with my ur dragon today so these have proven to be the most useful in my build outside the precon.
* Steely Resolve pretty much won me a game. Only 2 mana to protect my dragons is great even if its with shroud as the only thing I would even target them with is Lightning Greaves.
* Temur Ascendancy is tricky to cast but fulfills two functions that are very important to the deck.
* Sarkhan the Mad is the best Sarkhan Planeswalker. Seriously, hit someone big time with the ur dragon and a friend or two then drop this guy down for a second fist to the throat. His other 2 abilities are useful too if he sticks around after basically killing someone.
* Vampiric Tutor and Demonic Tutor are understandably very handy and there's no shame in even using them to fix your mana. It helped me out a lot.
* Fearsome Awakening...is garbage. Run Unburial Rites instead.
* And more on recursion, Eternal Witness and Patriarch's Bidding are obvious inclusions and Living Death is great at shifting the momentum of a game.
* Sylvan Library especially if you plan to stack the deck in a Ur-Dragon attack trigger's favor.
* And finally, while Earthquake is good in a flying based deck, Fault line is better.
Sadly Vampiric Tutor and Sylvan Library are a no go. I look at the mount of life my deck would remove from my total if I took advanatge of each card, my land base alone removes 30 (10 fetches and 10 shocks) I rather not play more spells that drain more life. (Sylvan was in the deck but i took it out)
as for Temur Ascendancy and Fearsome Awakening. both nice cards.
Yes Fault line is a good card I should pick up.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I was actually on my phone which does not have a spell check. (Turned it off for that exact reason I don't like turning certain words like "didnt" into something very inappropriate.
But at the same time my keypad is so small I make mass typos while on my phone. You can probably see the difference from my phone and my computer.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist