MTG Salvation

I built a casual deck around Momir Vig, Simic Visionary and usually it's a lot of fun. My gameplan is to sit there and make mana creatures until I can overrun everyone with Craterhoof Behemoth. The problem is that if someone plays a mass removal spell early on, I have a lot of trouble coming back from behind. Green recursion is slow and doesn't bring creatures directly back. Mystic Snake and other counterspells are good later on, but not early when I'm developing my mana. I'd be play more cards like Nature's Lore but I need to keep my creature count high for Momir. Ideally I'm looking for something like Twilight's Call or Return to the Ranks... just in blue or green... and on a creature... lol. Anyone know any cards like these? OR maybe there's a general I would like in UGW/UGB where I can build the same kind of deck?

If you're looking for direct reanimation ( and it isn't a land), in blue/green you aren't going to be lucky. That sort of ability is a white or black one. On the flip side, Green can recur absolutely anything. Since your strategy is to barf up a lot of mana dorks, have you given any consideration to damia, sage of stone as a good way to keep your hand topped up? Going black/blue/green also allows you to consider aluren combo as well as null profusion/recycle

1) Free or absurdly cheap counters like Pact of negation, force of will, and swan song.

2) cards that let you sac in response for profit like perilous forays and greater good.

3) or just play more combo.

Quote from weltkrieg »

If you're looking for direct reanimation ( and it isn't a land), in blue/green you aren't going to be lucky. That sort of ability is a white or black one. On the flip side, Green can recur absolutely anything. Since your strategy is to barf up a lot of mana dorks, have you given any consideration to damia, sage of stone as a good way to keep your hand topped up? Going black/blue/green also allows you to consider aluren combo as well as null profusion/recycle

I'm aware the ability is white or black, but Wizards has been known to make mistakes over the years :-). Like, I found Cauldron of Souls, but I play a lot of elves so that's not quite good enough.
I would prefer to keep my deck UG for the time being, but I'll keep Damia in mind if I ever end up switching. She seems like the most powerful option.
No combos is my self-imposed deckbuilding restriction. I already have fast instant-win combo decks, and those get boring. Then there's lockdown kinda stuff, which I know people in my playgroup would complain about if I have too much of it (they already complain my deck is too consistent).

Quote from robtheman »

1) Free or absurdly cheap counters like Pact of negation, force of will, and swan song.

2) cards that let you sac in response for profit like perilous forays and greater good.

3) or just play more combo.

I really like Swan Song; I have trouble leaving open UU early on but U would work. Perilous Forays looks worth a try too. Greater good's a strong card but in my deck I'll be drawing 1 and discarding 3 most of the time.

There aren't many options for UG creature based decks to counteract mass removal aside from counterspells, indestructible spells like Heroic Intervention and regeneration like Asceticism. Regeneration is a forte for green. This is kind of the reason why I expanded my elf tribal to a 5c elf tribal instead of sticking to UG, hard to bounce back after sweeps (mine is a sweep happy meta sighz).

But that said, UG does have some ways to help alleviate if not mitigate the effects of creature wipe a little. I'll keep it within the context of an Elf tribal since you are mainly an elf tribal deck I suppose?

There are some partner cards to Cauldron of Souls for Elves, which are in UG colors, mainly Master Biomancer and Ivy Lane Denizen. These will help negate the effects of having the -1/-1 counter when they return back to play from persist. Both cards are also good in a creature aggro setting since they buff creatures too.

To help mitigate the lack of creatures in a boardwipe setting, there are 2 cards I recommend. Evolutionary Leap is a good card to turn your dorks into other creatures when there is a board wipe in the early turns so you can bounce back faster. Caller of the Claw is an Elf which is really good to cast after a boardwipe, to use the bear tokens to maul that sweeper for revenge = =+.

Over in the blue side we have a really interesting spell to mitigate the damage, Paradoxical Outcome. It is easy to cast since it has only U in its mana, draws you more fuel while saving your precious elves that matter.

Quote from nekorin »

There aren't many options for UG creature based decks to counteract mass removal aside from counterspells, indestructible spells like Heroic Intervention and regeneration like Asceticism. Regeneration is a forte for green. This is kind of the reason why I expanded my elf tribal to a 5c elf tribal instead of sticking to UG, hard to bounce back after sweeps (mine is a sweep happy meta sighz).

But that said, UG does have some ways to help alleviate if not mitigate the effects of creature wipe a little. I'll keep it within the context of an Elf tribal since you are mainly an elf tribal deck I suppose?

There are some partner cards to Cauldron of Souls for Elves, which are in UG colors, mainly Master Biomancer and Ivy Lane Denizen. These will help negate the effects of having the -1/-1 counter when they return back to play from persist. Both cards are also good in a creature aggro setting since they buff creatures too.

To help mitigate the lack of creatures in a boardwipe setting, there are 2 cards I recommend. Evolutionary Leap is a good card to turn your dorks into other creatures when there is a board wipe in the early turns so you can bounce back faster. Caller of the Claw is an Elf which is really good to cast after a boardwipe, to use the bear tokens to maul that sweeper for revenge = =+.

Over in the blue side we have a really interesting spell to mitigate the damage, Paradoxical Outcome. It is easy to cast since it has only U in its mana, draws you more fuel while saving your precious elves that matter.

My meta isn't actually that sweeper happy, but when games take over an hour, a sweeper on turn 3 or 4 is like "welp, I know how this one is gonna go". (Not meaning to complain, mostly looking for answers)

I don't have any elf tribal synergies, but I'm considering it. I just mess around with Deadeye Navigator/Tradewind Rider + Eternal Witness/Mystic Snake/other CIP effect until I can win with Craterhoof.

Biomancer and Ivy Lane Denizen aren't really what I'm trying to do because I don't care much about the p/t of my creatures.

I found Evolutionary Leap when looking up Perilous Forays, and I like it a lot. Caller of the Claw (and Fresh Meat) is on my radar; I might add it for sweepers that are problematic late-game like Supreme Verdict.

You don't actually have to play aluren combo. Null Profusion and Recycle's nasty drawbacks are completely mitigated by damia's ability. In fact, damia is the only general in these colors that I know of that does that. I am also well aware of Wotc's butchering of the color pie over the years. One can look at my myriad of red decks to note that. However, to battlefield recursion isn't one they have missed on much. Blue does get something like it in body double, but that is a singular target, not a multiple hit, unfortunately. In fact, the only colors I know of that do that specific thing are Black and white for creatures, and white and red for enchantments and artifacts, respectively. Counters, as mentioned, really are your best option. I understand that UU is difficult in the early turns, but you in addition to the ones listed, you might also consider
1. Arcane Denial
2. Spell pierce
3. mana leak
4. remand
5. Glen eledra archmage

I know green has a ton of ways to get things back from the graveyard, but if you are playing any kind of flash enablers (green and blue are rife with these), you might consider lifeline or perhaps moldgraf monstrosity.

eldrazi monument
soul of new phyrexia

If you are having trouble rebuilding due to lack of cards, you might not be running enough card draw, cards like mystic remora, consecrated sphinx, recurring insight, skullclamp

Heroic Intervention saved my ass, brah.

As far as counterspells go, Stubborn denial depending on the average power of your creatures.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'll definitely look into all those cards even though there are only a couple that do *exactly* what I'm looking for.

Creeping Renaissance can get all permanents of one type up on hand (creatures in your case), I guess that will be your best option to get all back.

Play Ertai, Wizard Adept, Glen Elendra Archmage and Venser, shaper savant (Venser is great versus Supreme Verdict especially. If it's that much of an issue, add creature combos and envelop. Yes, I know envelop is conditional, but for 1 blue mana its dissolves any sorcery save for supreme verdict. If you play lots of blue creatures, hybrid etc or blue token or u/g tokens you can also play abjure.