This is a terrible rules change, will probably cause unforeseen problems (although tbh I can't really think of any so I'm probably just being paranoid) and might cause the RC to ban cards to work with the rules change.
But that brings up an interesting question: Doesn't Sheldon and the RC make these kinds of things happen? Or was this $hit forced upon them by WoTC and Hasbro?
It's a change to the comprehensive rules, not EDH specific. The RC isn't remotely relevant to this discussion.
We can be pretty sure there aren't going to be a lot of unforeseen problems. Full list of cards directly affected by the addition of the legendary supertype is below:
All of them get a little better, maybe even a lot better for Sisay and Lancers, but none of them seem really problematic. Other potential problems would stem from having two walkers of the same type or the newfound legendary status of walkers that can become creatures. The second category seems minor at best. There are already limited benefits to being a legendary creature - it's a downside outside of EDH outside of a very small pool of cards, and none of those cards are problematic. Controlling two walkers of the same type is obviously a power increase, but walkers are arguably underpowered in EDH outside of Doubling Season combos and a small few that are played mostly for single abilities.
This is basically a rules cleanup in the majority of cases, not a significant functional change.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
This is a terrible rules change, will probably cause unforeseen problems (although tbh I can't really think of any so I'm probably just being paranoid) and might cause the RC to ban cards to work with the rules change.
But that brings up an interesting question: Doesn't Sheldon and the RC make these kinds of things happen? Or was this $hit forced upon them by WoTC and Hasbro?
It's a change to the comprehensive rules, not EDH specific. The RC isn't remotely relevant to this discussion.
We can be pretty sure there aren't going to be a lot of unforeseen problems. Full list of cards directly affected by the addition of the legendary supertype is below:
All of them get a little better, maybe even a lot better for Sisay and Lancers, but none of them seem really problematic. Other potential problems would stem from having two walkers of the same type or the newfound legendary status of walkers that can become creatures. The second category seems minor at best. There are already limited benefits to being a legendary creature - it's a downside outside of EDH outside of a very small pool of cards, and none of those cards are problematic. Controlling two walkers of the same type is obviously a power increase, but walkers are arguably underpowered in EDH outside of Doubling Season combos and a small few that are played mostly for single abilities.
This is basically a rules cleanup in the majority of cases, not a significant functional change.
I don't feel like they needed a boost in power level. An inclusion of a particular PW in a deck usually fulfilled a very specific purpose, so there's a good chance there's a way for that deck to use it in that way.
I'm building a Edgar Markov deck and this rules change makes things kind of obscene with the three Sorin I was planning on running. Also it allowed me to drop in the possibility of including Liliana Vess in addition to the other Liliana I already had lined up for the deck.
It really bothers me to be honest with you. I look at it like this: You are a Planeswalker. You control your general. But at some point during the battle, you decide you need to summon -another- Planeswalker to help you, since you happen to have that spell in your library.
But...Liliana of the Veil was already on the battlefield. so HOW THE $HIT DOES A SECOND LILIANA SHOW UP AND HELP YOU WHEN SHE'S ALREADY ASSUMED HER PREVIOUS ROLE.
But nobody will care about the illogic because it gives them more toys to play with
I guess it won't be too long before the EDH Rules Committee decides to allow all Planeswalkers past, present, and future to be used as Commanders aside from the ones that say you're able to on the card text as If we need another shake up to increase the barrier of entry for new players in the format after this recent rule change to where Planeswalkers are no longer subject to the Planeswalker uniqueness rule.
Standard, Modern, and Legacy are already expensive enough to get into as it is so why bother making EDH/Commander more expensive when it comes to decks revolving around Planeswalkers? Has the format really come down to who has the biggest disposable income to keep up with whatever is being played in said playgroup?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I guess it won't be too long before the EDH Rules Committee decides to allow all Planeswalkers past, present, and future to be used as Commanders aside from the ones that say you're able to on the card text as If we need another shake up to increase the barrier of entry for new players in the format after this recent rule change to where Planeswalkers are no longer subject to the Planeswalker uniqueness rule.
Standard, Modern, and Legacy are already expensive enough to get into as it is so why bother making EDH/Commander more expensive when it comes to decks revolving around Planeswalkers? Has the format really come down to who has the biggest disposable income to keep up with whatever is being played in said playgroup?
Sure does seem like it. To me this looks like a way to cram as many mythics into a deck as possible. This is a greed move, not a rules cleanup. Crack those packs! Chase those mythics! Truly disgusting.
But...Liliana of the Veil was already on the battlefield. so HOW THE $HIT DOES A SECOND LILIANA SHOW UP AND HELP YOU WHEN SHE'S ALREADY ASSUMED HER PREVIOUS ROLE.
But nobody will care about the illogic because it gives them more toys to play with
That is one of the worst possible examples for your point... before the change you could have played creature Lili on a board with any of her planeswalker versions anyway. One of them would just have vanished when the flip happened - that doesn't really seem more logical to me.
As for the financial aspect: I doubt this will change much in terms of EDH. The only decks that are really affected by this are superfriends lists and these were never much of a budget option anyway. Even if all Planeswalkers would become valid generals, they're not exactly automatically stronger choices than the established (in some cases already kinda broken) creatures.
For Standard it could have more impact, but since they announced to do less of the same (gatewatch) characters even that has to be seen.
This is a terrible rules change, will probably cause unforeseen problems (although tbh I can't really think of any so I'm probably just being paranoid) and might cause the RC to ban cards to work with the rules change.
But that brings up an interesting question: Doesn't Sheldon and the RC make these kinds of things happen? Or was this $hit forced upon them by WoTC and Hasbro?
It's a change to the comprehensive rules, not EDH specific. The RC isn't remotely relevant to this discussion.
We can be pretty sure there aren't going to be a lot of unforeseen problems. Full list of cards directly affected by the addition of the legendary supertype is below:
All of them get a little better, maybe even a lot better for Sisay and Lancers, but none of them seem really problematic. Other potential problems would stem from having two walkers of the same type or the newfound legendary status of walkers that can become creatures. The second category seems minor at best. There are already limited benefits to being a legendary creature - it's a downside outside of EDH outside of a very small pool of cards, and none of those cards are problematic. Controlling two walkers of the same type is obviously a power increase, but walkers are arguably underpowered in EDH outside of Doubling Season combos and a small few that are played mostly for single abilities.
This is basically a rules cleanup in the majority of cases, not a significant functional change.
I don't feel like they needed a boost in power level. An inclusion of a particular PW in a deck usually fulfilled a very specific purpose, so there's a good chance there's a way for that deck to use it in that way.
I'm building a Edgar Markov deck and this rules change makes things kind of obscene with the three Sorin I was planning on running. Also it allowed me to drop in the possibility of including Liliana Vess in addition to the other Liliana I already had lined up for the deck.
It really bothers me to be honest with you. I look at it like this: You are a Planeswalker. You control your general. But at some point during the battle, you decide you need to summon -another- Planeswalker to help you, since you happen to have that spell in your library.
But...Liliana of the Veil was already on the battlefield. so HOW THE $HIT DOES A SECOND LILIANA SHOW UP AND HELP YOU WHEN SHE'S ALREADY ASSUMED HER PREVIOUS ROLE.
But nobody will care about the illogic because it gives them more toys to play with
The Thematics of Creatures being summoned have been borked post mending anyways so adding planeswalkers to that borking doesn't really make things any worse than they already are.
Wizards has chosen to tweak the Legend Rule over the years to make for better gameplay so both players can have a Gaea's Cradle on the field. They have tweaked the Planeswalker rule once to make it so both players can have a Jace on the field. They have always allowed different versions of the same Legendary creature. It just makes sense to extend this to Planeswalkers for the sake of gameplay.
Aha! My long awaited chandra tribal mono red superfriends deck finally can be made! bwaahahahahahaha.
Ok, all bs aside, it does make some sense from a gameplay perspective. On the other hand, I kind of liked the uniqueness of the planeswalker rules. Now I am going to be able to get away with too much in a red deck. c'est la vie...
Well, I rebuilt my Superfriends deck because of it.
And I might rebuild my mono-B Liliana tribal deck again. Right now my only mono-B deck is Ghoulcaller Gisa, whom I love. I wonder if Zombie tribal and Liliana tribal might have too much overlap...
There's no difference here. For both Legendary creatures, and for Planeswalkers, if you want to be thematic about it, we are putting them into play as they were at that point in time where there card was. So a Jace, the Living Guildpact is from a different point of time than Jace, the Mind Sculptor and thus are under the same rules as standard legendary creatures.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Well, all my green decks run Garruk Wildspeaker, and the fact that you couldn't use Garruk to ramp into a more expensive Garruk without losing Wildspeaker was always a small disincentive to include them. So I guess I might reconsider including Primal Hunter and Caller of Beasts in a couple of them....
But it's really a very small buff in most circumstances. The only decks where I can see this change having a substantial effect are, as mentioned many times above, Captain Sisay, Empress Galina, the flip-walkers, and Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath (he's the only commander-walker with another planeswalker card so far, right?).
Nahiri and Daretti both have multiple printings, but their second printings are off-color from their first so it's a moot point.
Anyone who think that this is the precursor to the RC declaring all walkers as legal commanders, can you explain your logic? I haven't seen anything that suggests they would be interested in doing so and everything that could be considered a move in that direction has come directly from WotC, not the RC.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
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We can be pretty sure there aren't going to be a lot of unforeseen problems. Full list of cards directly affected by the addition of the legendary supertype is below:
This is basically a rules cleanup in the majority of cases, not a significant functional change.
I don't feel like they needed a boost in power level. An inclusion of a particular PW in a deck usually fulfilled a very specific purpose, so there's a good chance there's a way for that deck to use it in that way.
I'm building a Edgar Markov deck and this rules change makes things kind of obscene with the three Sorin I was planning on running. Also it allowed me to drop in the possibility of including Liliana Vess in addition to the other Liliana I already had lined up for the deck.
It really bothers me to be honest with you. I look at it like this: You are a Planeswalker. You control your general. But at some point during the battle, you decide you need to summon -another- Planeswalker to help you, since you happen to have that spell in your library.
So now here's where it gets stupid, stay with me on this one...there's already a Liliana in play, let's say Liliana of the Veil but things aren't going so well, and you decide to summon another Plansewalker: Liliana, Heretical Healer so I can flip her into Liliana, Defiant Necromancer
But...Liliana of the Veil was already on the battlefield. so HOW THE $HIT DOES A SECOND LILIANA SHOW UP AND HELP YOU WHEN SHE'S ALREADY ASSUMED HER PREVIOUS ROLE.
But nobody will care about the illogic because it gives them more toys to play with
We are playing the game as powerful planeswalkers. I summon the Jace I need from when I want him.
How is it ok that so many different Jace cards exist if he is only one guy? Why not just keep reprinting Jace Beleren
Nicol Bolas, a balance of Vorthos and PowerUBR
Nath of the Gilt LeafBG
Others
Squee, Goblin of AwesomenessR
Nekusar, the Mindblazer!UBR
Vela the NightcladUB
I used to be a world champion, but then I took a wolf to the knee. And three Galvanic Blasts to the face.
Concerning when returning to Kamigawa would be acceptable
Standard, Modern, and Legacy are already expensive enough to get into as it is so why bother making EDH/Commander more expensive when it comes to decks revolving around Planeswalkers? Has the format really come down to who has the biggest disposable income to keep up with whatever is being played in said playgroup?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Sure does seem like it. To me this looks like a way to cram as many mythics into a deck as possible. This is a greed move, not a rules cleanup. Crack those packs! Chase those mythics! Truly disgusting.
That is one of the worst possible examples for your point... before the change you could have played creature Lili on a board with any of her planeswalker versions anyway. One of them would just have vanished when the flip happened - that doesn't really seem more logical to me.
As for the financial aspect: I doubt this will change much in terms of EDH. The only decks that are really affected by this are superfriends lists and these were never much of a budget option anyway. Even if all Planeswalkers would become valid generals, they're not exactly automatically stronger choices than the established (in some cases already kinda broken) creatures.
For Standard it could have more impact, but since they announced to do less of the same (gatewatch) characters even that has to be seen.
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
The Thematics of Creatures being summoned have been borked post mending anyways so adding planeswalkers to that borking doesn't really make things any worse than they already are.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
In general I don't mind this change, but superfriends did not need the buff.
Wizards has chosen to tweak the Legend Rule over the years to make for better gameplay so both players can have a Gaea's Cradle on the field. They have tweaked the Planeswalker rule once to make it so both players can have a Jace on the field. They have always allowed different versions of the same Legendary creature. It just makes sense to extend this to Planeswalkers for the sake of gameplay.
Ok, all bs aside, it does make some sense from a gameplay perspective. On the other hand, I kind of liked the uniqueness of the planeswalker rules. Now I am going to be able to get away with too much in a red deck. c'est la vie...
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
And I might rebuild my mono-B Liliana tribal deck again. Right now my only mono-B deck is Ghoulcaller Gisa, whom I love. I wonder if Zombie tribal and Liliana tribal might have too much overlap...
DO you people also hate how people can have Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Thalia, Heretic Cathar on the field at the same time? Or what about Sygg, River Guide, and Sygg, River Cutthroat?
There's no difference here. For both Legendary creatures, and for Planeswalkers, if you want to be thematic about it, we are putting them into play as they were at that point in time where there card was. So a Jace, the Living Guildpact is from a different point of time than Jace, the Mind Sculptor and thus are under the same rules as standard legendary creatures.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
But it's really a very small buff in most circumstances. The only decks where I can see this change having a substantial effect are, as mentioned many times above, Captain Sisay, Empress Galina, the flip-walkers, and Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath (he's the only commander-walker with another planeswalker card so far, right?).
Anyone who think that this is the precursor to the RC declaring all walkers as legal commanders, can you explain your logic? I haven't seen anything that suggests they would be interested in doing so and everything that could be considered a move in that direction has come directly from WotC, not the RC.