I have only recently gained awareness into the depths of the divide between "casual" and "competitive" players in Commander.
To be clear, this thread is not intended to ask whether the player with stronger decks has any "responsibility" to make sure the group has fun. Likewise, this thread is not about insulting players who go at full force and calling them jerks for doing so. Instead, I'm interested in seeing how players respond to a simple scenario.
You have no reason to suspect that these commanders were chosen to be ironic or to lull you into a state of security.
You do not know these individuals and have no emotional attachment to them beyond whatever courtesy you'd extend to any fellow gamer, though you might end up seeing or playing them again if you don't dismiss them out of hand.
This game has no stakes and there is no prize for winning.
Not really what you're asking, but if people are running unknown old commanders like skeleton ship, in my experience odds are good they're at least semi-veteran players trying to do something silly (although I've occasionally seen players with old commanders that still had bafflingly terrible decks). Maybe a better example would be something like linvala, the preserver that's fairly new, not very good, and unlikely to be some kind of silly synergy deck. That's the sort of thing I'd expect a new player with a bad deck to play.
Personally I'll usually have a new deck I want to play, and I'll usually play that first regardless of what the power level looks like since it's hard to tell from commanders alone - typically I'll have something strong but not super competitive. After the first game, I'll decide if I should change decks to something better or worse, if I have them available. I also don't mind borrowing decks to match power levels.
If I'm to play against an unknown playgroup with unknown power level I'll just use my Life/Gain loss deck and switch the commander to Ayli if I happen to bring it. It has a number of cards built to help the board around such as Benevolent Offering, Hunted Horror, Exotic Orchard to help push the game along.
Most of my decks aren't built to be hyper competitive and do leave room for players to interact with so that the game can go to and fro. Against weaker decks just play at their power level.
Train them. Offer them tips to improve and help them understand why their builds maybe aren't so good. You're likely not the only one whom will have a stronger deck than what they have to offer. If they refuse the help...well, that's on them.
You can only lead a horse to water...can't make 'em drink.
I feel like a strong spike will feel severely chained trying to play a deliberately bad deck and will just not enjoy themselves. Which is why I have gone with the second option of playing whacky and weird. Pick something inherently weak and easy too attack then you have to teach the rest of the group what they need to do to beat you. Sometimes they wont have it and you will still win.
The biggest issue with weak play groups is the lack of answers, people just all want to do their own thing and win. When that thing is much weaker than what is possible in EDH. Someone that comes in with power things get terrible fast. It is a big issue that the best answers can cost a lot more than power in EDH. A lot of people don't like playing answers, feel pressured not wanting to destroy other peoples things, some players can make playing any answers at all a personal attack which just makes people not play any so they don't piss that person off. If there is one of those players, either don't play or stay strong and push through and hope to show to the other players they don't have to put up with that kind of bullying.
Well, when a new player shows up and is in my random pod, I check to see if they've played against one of my powerful decks before. If not, then I play it and destroy them with it. If they have seen the deck before I proceed to whip it out and dominate them as usual.
Train them. Offer them tips to improve and help them understand why their builds maybe aren't so good. You're likely not the only one whom will have a stronger deck than what they have to offer. If they refuse the help...well, that's on them.
You can only lead a horse to water...can't make 'em drink.
train them to do what? change their decks and playstyle to accommodate some one new? that is how you run off players.
for the original question, as the new person to the group you should try to play to their power level, at least initially. if they are causal players and you come in and start stomping them they are more likely to avoid playing with you as opposed to improving their decks. it sounds like they have a playstyle they all seem to enjoy and upsetting that and then telling them to improve wont make you many friends. however if you have no interest in playing with them again just stomp their throats in. just make it quick so they can get started on the next game.
i have dealt with this situation quite recently as i have moved to a new country (Japan) and am trying to integrate myself into the local shops playgroup. the issue i am having is there is a handful of casual player along with a handful of competitive players who show up each week. i have started bringing a couple different decks for playing depending on who i am grouped with. for the most part majority of my decks are in line with the casual players power lever, but i have had to try to spike up a few for when im grouped with the spikes. as the "outsider" i feel its my responsibility to play their game and not force them to play mine.
When I first started working at a LGS I taught the kids EDH and loved watching them build up from decks made of standard cards. I helped them build and modify decks, showed them how to find information online, etc. I was so proud of one of the lil buggers the day one used an infinite combo.
As for deck choices I had decks of varying power level because my playgroup with my friends is different. I dont use degenerate decks that dont let them play. mostly battlecruisers and combo decks. I definitely played rough because the kids enjoyed the challenge of taking me down.
I actually borrowed a standard deck and won a game day because I needed this mat roar of challenge because it basically shows I see myself against all those kids.
TL;DR. I believe in forging new players in fire as long as they enjoy themselves.
I feel like the question is kind of misleading. What makes the playgroup weak? Are you labeling a playgroup as weak because they don't play certain cards? Or is it because of game play errors? I think it's best to give advice when asked or when there is misunderstanding of rules. I would never sit down to a table and assume anything about the players based on card selection. That's how they chose to build their deck, and you don't know if it's due to affordability, choice, skill, or play style. To answer your question though, if I don't have a deck with me that can "fit in" with what a playgroup is playing, I may borrow a deck, but I wouldn't label that playgroup as weak. I just don't think it's a fair assumption to make. At the end of the day, I think people want to have fun and tend to play what is most comfortable for them.
I play my enchantment deck. Their seizures are only the brain being overwhelmed by enlightenment from Magic the Gathering's rules achieving perfect evolution.
If you get to talk with a new playgroup before starting a game, you may learn things about a group's playstyle (such as not liking kill spells or finding 6-card infinite combos to be overwhelming) to be indicative of poor players. In many cases, however, the first impressions of power level that you can get from a commander group come from the decks that the group uses (or attempt to use).
To be clear: I do not mean to offend anyone with the use of "weak" instead of "lower power level". Many factors can fit into card selection and not all decks are built with the same intentions. With that said, discussion of "tiers" among commanders are generally intelligible. Whether you are playing a casual group hug deck or spike down to the core, many players understand that an optimized Riku of Two Reflections or Yisan, the Wanderer Bard deck is a bit more scary than one piloted by Seshiro the Anointed. While there is no guarantee of optimized builds or play styles, a player can "read a book by its cover" to get a general gauge of potential power (especially if every commander is similarly powerful or inefficient).
I was just curious if players would rather "set the bar" in the name of playing their favorite decks and strategies (which they may have spent years and thousands of dollars assembling), adapt to the local culture of the unknown playgroup (to respect the desired power level of the people who allowed you to join), or work towards some form of compromise in the middle.
You can always kindly request to see the contents of their decks. Browsing through them will give you the clearest indication of the power level within said group. Of course, sharing can be an intrusion of personal space, so offer to show them yours as well.
And like some mentioned, you can also bring a few decks with varying power levels. If you don't have the budget or the cards, I suggest bringing some "sideboard cards" to cater to whichever power level you chose to play with. Try to know what to take out/put in before games.
As for me, I purposely made a wacky and fun multiplayer deck to lend others. I always bring it with me (in addition to my other decks). It also serves as teaching tool if someone new wants to join. There they can witness/experience first-hand how we play our EDH.
I dont jave money to keep buildinb new deck after new deck and lately my decks have been ratber powerful. Prior to now i would play a weak deck but got tired of losing, so i now have two strong decks. (With a few more on the way)
Playing vela combo and ramos superfriends. Building dragons. Wizard combo and ramos good stuff.eldrazi tribal on the backburner for now along with rhys tribal swarm.
Train them. Offer them tips to improve and help them understand why their builds maybe aren't so good. You're likely not the only one whom will have a stronger deck than what they have to offer. If they refuse the help...well, that's on them.
You can only lead a horse to water...can't make 'em drink.
train them? like everyone has the same acess to the cardpool, or is willing to spend as much money to a hobby
magic is less about skill, and more about your deckbuilding and choice of cards
ill train you, buy 400$ of cards to improve your deck, that is.
I didn't vote because the poll only allows one option. Personally, I prefer a combination of several of the answers. I did have a while where I deliberately backed off on the power level of my decks because I won every single game week after week. At the same time, I find that teaching people how to build a better deck (i.e. - actually look at your mana curve and get better at card evaluation) results in more fun for an entire playgroup. Once everyone gets better, you can start upgrading your decks. And I have occasionally loaned out decks, although I don't do that so much because there have been a string of recent thefts at our store.
Even with these steps, communication is key. Some people like really cutthroat MLD and stax decks, and some people don't. There is no "training" a person to enjoy the type they hate. You need to make sure that everyone is aiming for approximately the same style of game. It's not a matter of "cutthroat is better" and players will all embrace the most cutthroat if they're "good enough." I hate grindy topdecking games. I play to interact and have fun. But I wouldn't expect everyone to play nice in an established cutthroat group just because I want that. To try to impose a starkly different ideal on an established group borders on arrogant and inconsiderate.
Not really what you're asking, but if people are running unknown old commanders like skeleton ship, in my experience odds are good they're at least semi-veteran players trying to do something silly (although I've occasionally seen players with old commanders that still had bafflingly terrible decks). Maybe a better example would be something like linvala, the preserver that's fairly new, not very good, and unlikely to be some kind of silly synergy deck. That's the sort of thing I'd expect a new player with a bad deck to play.
Personally I'll usually have a new deck I want to play, and I'll usually play that first regardless of what the power level looks like since it's hard to tell from commanders alone - typically I'll have something strong but not super competitive. After the first game, I'll decide if I should change decks to something better or worse, if I have them available. I also don't mind borrowing decks to match power levels.
Yeah, I was going to say that Skeleton Ship and two other cards that are more than 10 years old are not what I would expect novices to be playing. I would expect something more recently printed and straightforward like Sigarda, Heron's Grace.
So, those players probably have a reason for what they were doing. The one time I heard about Skeleton Ship being run, it was in a deck that the designer wanted to deliberately eliminate any possible ways to win, and then just cram it with counters and removal. Seems like a fair game to me.
You need to make sure that everyone is aiming for approximately the same style of game. It's not a matter of "cutthroat is better" and players will all embrace the most cutthroat if they're "good enough."
This. Not everyone playing with a low powered deck is doing it because they can't make a better one. My group consists almost entirely of former competitive players, most of whom are well employed with decent collections. Sometimes you just want to use Bazaar of Baghdad to turn on Hazoret the Pervert instead of playing a nasty dredge deck with it. If you show up to my group's EDH night and follow my T3 Markov Blademaster with EOT Ad Nauseam into combo kill, you're probably not getting a second invite. We're careful about avoiding an arms race because we like the power level we're at, not because we can't build stronger decks.
The reason I type all that isn't to call out competitive players - if that's the way you like to play, go for it. It's to point out the importance of communication. I suspect it's less common than groups that are lower powered due to lack of experience or resources, but there are definitely groups that have made a conscious choice to reign in power level. You can avoid a lot of power level related headaches with 30 seconds of conversation.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I voted for lifting them up but I wouldn't lend out decks. I'd just keep winning. Be a good sport about it. Explain sideboards and what a meta game is. Offer to make suggestions during confusing battle sequences. Explain why instants and activated abilities are usually best when saved for end of opponents turn. Then explain it again. And probably again. Win again. Explain why I won. Never gloat. Never trash talk. Never take anger directed at me personally. Always compliment good plays. Keep winning until I don't win anymore. Celebrate. Adjust my deck.
I'd probably run out MY Daretti-combo deck. It should be a quick match so we can play another with my clone-ALL-the-things.dek.
t's good at adjusting its powerlevel to those you play against.
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Train them. Offer them tips to improve and help them understand why their builds maybe aren't so good. You're likely not the only one whom will have a stronger deck than what they have to offer. If they refuse the help...well, that's on them.
You can only lead a horse to water...can't make 'em drink.
train them? like everyone has the same acess to the cardpool, or is willing to spend as much money to a hobby
magic is less about skill, and more about your deckbuilding and choice of cards
ill train you, buy 400$ of cards to improve your deck, that is.
Deck building is a skill. Knowing how to play, how to bait, how to read the board, when to fold'em, when to show'em. blah blah etc you might disagree but not the point im going for.
There are plenty of budget options, most newer players play stompy decks and there are plenty of 1$ rare/mythic decent big creatures.
If they cant afford path to exile then condem is an acceptable budget choice.
You can train them to be better players by showing then card interactions in your better decks. Like in a Meren deck they run naturalize but caustic catapiller offers real synergy.
You can show them how to choose cards for a deck Rampant Growth is fine in most decks but you'd rather run farseek in a multicolored deck (this was during return to ravinca, most kids I taught had enough allowence to buy a pack or 2 a week and had 1-2 shocks).
If they had a few bucks I'd show them a plethera of good playable 25 cent commons and uncommons and 1$ rares in the boxes.
Train them. Offer them tips to improve and help them understand why their builds maybe aren't so good. You're likely not the only one whom will have a stronger deck than what they have to offer. If they refuse the help...well, that's on them.
You can only lead a horse to water...can't make 'em drink.
train them? like everyone has the same acess to the cardpool, or is willing to spend as much money to a hobby
magic is less about skill, and more about your deckbuilding and choice of cards
ill train you, buy 400$ of cards to improve your deck, that is.
Deck building is a skill. Knowing how to play, how to bait, how to read the board, when to fold'em, when to show'em. blah blah etc you might disagree but not the point im going for.
There are plenty of budget options, most newer players play stompy decks and there are plenty of 1$ rare/mythic decent big creatures.
If they cant afford path to exile then condem is an acceptable budget choice.
You can train them to be better players by showing then card interactions in your better decks. Like in a Meren deck they run naturalize but caustic catapiller offers real synergy.
You can show them how to choose cards for a deck Rampant Growth is fine in most decks but you'd rather run farseek in a multicolored deck (this was during return to ravinca, most kids I taught had enough allowence to buy a pack or 2 a week and had 1-2 shocks).
If they had a few bucks I'd show them a plethera of good playable 25 cent commons and uncommons and 1$ rares in the boxes.
You can include substitutes, but you will still lose to the real thing a huge amount of the time, because that's just how the game works. When your cards are the optimal versions, like pte vs condemn, it makes a world of difference, especially when applied to all ~60 cards of an edh deck.
Your removal is more flexible and probably cheaper.
Your card draw gets more cards per mana
Your ramp is faster and produces more mana.
Your threats are more likely to do their job.
To me, a weak playgroup typically means weak, cheap cards. Not necessarily weak players. I'll bet on the weak player with a good deck over a strong player with a bad deck any day.
Train them. Offer them tips to improve and help them understand why their builds maybe aren't so good. You're likely not the only one whom will have a stronger deck than what they have to offer. If they refuse the help...well, that's on them.
You can only lead a horse to water...can't make 'em drink.
train them? like everyone has the same acess to the cardpool, or is willing to spend as much money to a hobby
magic is less about skill, and more about your deckbuilding and choice of cards
ill train you, buy 400$ of cards to improve your deck, that is.
Deck building is a skill. Knowing how to play, how to bait, how to read the board, when to fold'em, when to show'em. blah blah etc you might disagree but not the point im going for.
There are plenty of budget options, most newer players play stompy decks and there are plenty of 1$ rare/mythic decent big creatures.
If they cant afford path to exile then condem is an acceptable budget choice.
You can train them to be better players by showing then card interactions in your better decks. Like in a Meren deck they run naturalize but caustic catapiller offers real synergy.
You can show them how to choose cards for a deck Rampant Growth is fine in most decks but you'd rather run farseek in a multicolored deck (this was during return to ravinca, most kids I taught had enough allowence to buy a pack or 2 a week and had 1-2 shocks).
If they had a few bucks I'd show them a plethera of good playable 25 cent commons and uncommons and 1$ rares in the boxes.
You can include substitutes, but you will still lose to the real thing a huge amount of the time, because that's just how the game works. When your cards are the optimal versions, like pte vs condemn, it makes a world of difference, especially when applied to all ~60 cards of an edh deck.
Your removal is more flexible and probably cheaper.
Your card draw gets more cards per mana
Your ramp is faster and produces more mana.
Your threats are more likely to do their job.
To me, a weak playgroup typically means weak, cheap cards. Not necessarily weak players. I'll bet on the weak player with a good deck over a strong player with a bad deck any day.
My point was more about teaching and fostering a relationship with newer players.
I fostered those relationships and my store benefitted when some of those kids were in high school and had jobs.
I personally would bet on the strong player with the weak deck though. Umm... Some old saying to make me sound wise about a master with a stick will always beat a novice with a sword.
To be clear, this thread is not intended to ask whether the player with stronger decks has any "responsibility" to make sure the group has fun. Likewise, this thread is not about insulting players who go at full force and calling them jerks for doing so. Instead, I'm interested in seeing how players respond to a simple scenario.
The Scenario:
What do you do?
Not really what you're asking, but if people are running unknown old commanders like skeleton ship, in my experience odds are good they're at least semi-veteran players trying to do something silly (although I've occasionally seen players with old commanders that still had bafflingly terrible decks). Maybe a better example would be something like linvala, the preserver that's fairly new, not very good, and unlikely to be some kind of silly synergy deck. That's the sort of thing I'd expect a new player with a bad deck to play.
Personally I'll usually have a new deck I want to play, and I'll usually play that first regardless of what the power level looks like since it's hard to tell from commanders alone - typically I'll have something strong but not super competitive. After the first game, I'll decide if I should change decks to something better or worse, if I have them available. I also don't mind borrowing decks to match power levels.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Most of my decks aren't built to be hyper competitive and do leave room for players to interact with so that the game can go to and fro. Against weaker decks just play at their power level.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
You can only lead a horse to water...can't make 'em drink.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The biggest issue with weak play groups is the lack of answers, people just all want to do their own thing and win. When that thing is much weaker than what is possible in EDH. Someone that comes in with power things get terrible fast. It is a big issue that the best answers can cost a lot more than power in EDH. A lot of people don't like playing answers, feel pressured not wanting to destroy other peoples things, some players can make playing any answers at all a personal attack which just makes people not play any so they don't piss that person off. If there is one of those players, either don't play or stay strong and push through and hope to show to the other players they don't have to put up with that kind of bullying.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
BWREDGAR MARKOV VAMPIRESBWR
train them to do what? change their decks and playstyle to accommodate some one new? that is how you run off players.
for the original question, as the new person to the group you should try to play to their power level, at least initially. if they are causal players and you come in and start stomping them they are more likely to avoid playing with you as opposed to improving their decks. it sounds like they have a playstyle they all seem to enjoy and upsetting that and then telling them to improve wont make you many friends. however if you have no interest in playing with them again just stomp their throats in. just make it quick so they can get started on the next game.
i have dealt with this situation quite recently as i have moved to a new country (Japan) and am trying to integrate myself into the local shops playgroup. the issue i am having is there is a handful of casual player along with a handful of competitive players who show up each week. i have started bringing a couple different decks for playing depending on who i am grouped with. for the most part majority of my decks are in line with the casual players power lever, but i have had to try to spike up a few for when im grouped with the spikes. as the "outsider" i feel its my responsibility to play their game and not force them to play mine.
In other words, no considerations for the group in any way (play as normal).
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
As for deck choices I had decks of varying power level because my playgroup with my friends is different. I dont use degenerate decks that dont let them play. mostly battlecruisers and combo decks. I definitely played rough because the kids enjoyed the challenge of taking me down.
I actually borrowed a standard deck and won a game day because I needed this mat roar of challenge because it basically shows I see myself against all those kids.
TL;DR. I believe in forging new players in fire as long as they enjoy themselves.
Nicol Bolas, a balance of Vorthos and PowerUBR
Nath of the Gilt LeafBG
Others
Squee, Goblin of AwesomenessR
Nekusar, the Mindblazer!UBR
Vela the NightcladUB
I used to be a world champion, but then I took a wolf to the knee. And three Galvanic Blasts to the face.
Concerning when returning to Kamigawa would be acceptable
If you get to talk with a new playgroup before starting a game, you may learn things about a group's playstyle (such as not liking kill spells or finding 6-card infinite combos to be overwhelming) to be indicative of poor players. In many cases, however, the first impressions of power level that you can get from a commander group come from the decks that the group uses (or attempt to use).
To be clear: I do not mean to offend anyone with the use of "weak" instead of "lower power level". Many factors can fit into card selection and not all decks are built with the same intentions. With that said, discussion of "tiers" among commanders are generally intelligible. Whether you are playing a casual group hug deck or spike down to the core, many players understand that an optimized Riku of Two Reflections or Yisan, the Wanderer Bard deck is a bit more scary than one piloted by Seshiro the Anointed. While there is no guarantee of optimized builds or play styles, a player can "read a book by its cover" to get a general gauge of potential power (especially if every commander is similarly powerful or inefficient).
I was just curious if players would rather "set the bar" in the name of playing their favorite decks and strategies (which they may have spent years and thousands of dollars assembling), adapt to the local culture of the unknown playgroup (to respect the desired power level of the people who allowed you to join), or work towards some form of compromise in the middle.
And like some mentioned, you can also bring a few decks with varying power levels. If you don't have the budget or the cards, I suggest bringing some "sideboard cards" to cater to whichever power level you chose to play with. Try to know what to take out/put in before games.
As for me, I purposely made a wacky and fun multiplayer deck to lend others. I always bring it with me (in addition to my other decks). It also serves as teaching tool if someone new wants to join. There they can witness/experience first-hand how we play our EDH.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Playing vela combo and ramos superfriends. Building dragons. Wizard combo and ramos good stuff.eldrazi tribal on the backburner for now along with rhys tribal swarm.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
train them? like everyone has the same acess to the cardpool, or is willing to spend as much money to a hobby
magic is less about skill, and more about your deckbuilding and choice of cards
ill train you, buy 400$ of cards to improve your deck, that is.
Δε φοβάμαι τίποτα...
Είμαι Άνεργος.
Grimstringer on Cockatrice, add me if you wanna
Even with these steps, communication is key. Some people like really cutthroat MLD and stax decks, and some people don't. There is no "training" a person to enjoy the type they hate. You need to make sure that everyone is aiming for approximately the same style of game. It's not a matter of "cutthroat is better" and players will all embrace the most cutthroat if they're "good enough." I hate grindy topdecking games. I play to interact and have fun. But I wouldn't expect everyone to play nice in an established cutthroat group just because I want that. To try to impose a starkly different ideal on an established group borders on arrogant and inconsiderate.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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ManabaseCrafter
Yeah, I was going to say that Skeleton Ship and two other cards that are more than 10 years old are not what I would expect novices to be playing. I would expect something more recently printed and straightforward like Sigarda, Heron's Grace.
So, those players probably have a reason for what they were doing. The one time I heard about Skeleton Ship being run, it was in a deck that the designer wanted to deliberately eliminate any possible ways to win, and then just cram it with counters and removal. Seems like a fair game to me.
The reason I type all that isn't to call out competitive players - if that's the way you like to play, go for it. It's to point out the importance of communication. I suspect it's less common than groups that are lower powered due to lack of experience or resources, but there are definitely groups that have made a conscious choice to reign in power level. You can avoid a lot of power level related headaches with 30 seconds of conversation.
t's good at adjusting its powerlevel to those you play against.
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Rules Advisor
Deck building is a skill. Knowing how to play, how to bait, how to read the board, when to fold'em, when to show'em. blah blah etc you might disagree but not the point im going for.
There are plenty of budget options, most newer players play stompy decks and there are plenty of 1$ rare/mythic decent big creatures.
If they cant afford path to exile then condem is an acceptable budget choice.
You can train them to be better players by showing then card interactions in your better decks. Like in a Meren deck they run naturalize but caustic catapiller offers real synergy.
You can show them how to choose cards for a deck Rampant Growth is fine in most decks but you'd rather run farseek in a multicolored deck (this was during return to ravinca, most kids I taught had enough allowence to buy a pack or 2 a week and had 1-2 shocks).
If they had a few bucks I'd show them a plethera of good playable 25 cent commons and uncommons and 1$ rares in the boxes.
Nicol Bolas, a balance of Vorthos and PowerUBR
Nath of the Gilt LeafBG
Others
Squee, Goblin of AwesomenessR
Nekusar, the Mindblazer!UBR
Vela the NightcladUB
I used to be a world champion, but then I took a wolf to the knee. And three Galvanic Blasts to the face.
Concerning when returning to Kamigawa would be acceptable
You can include substitutes, but you will still lose to the real thing a huge amount of the time, because that's just how the game works. When your cards are the optimal versions, like pte vs condemn, it makes a world of difference, especially when applied to all ~60 cards of an edh deck.
Your removal is more flexible and probably cheaper.
Your card draw gets more cards per mana
Your ramp is faster and produces more mana.
Your threats are more likely to do their job.
To me, a weak playgroup typically means weak, cheap cards. Not necessarily weak players. I'll bet on the weak player with a good deck over a strong player with a bad deck any day.
My point was more about teaching and fostering a relationship with newer players.
I fostered those relationships and my store benefitted when some of those kids were in high school and had jobs.
I personally would bet on the strong player with the weak deck though. Umm... Some old saying to make me sound wise about a master with a stick will always beat a novice with a sword.
Nicol Bolas, a balance of Vorthos and PowerUBR
Nath of the Gilt LeafBG
Others
Squee, Goblin of AwesomenessR
Nekusar, the Mindblazer!UBR
Vela the NightcladUB
I used to be a world champion, but then I took a wolf to the knee. And three Galvanic Blasts to the face.
Concerning when returning to Kamigawa would be acceptable