You can extend the combo further by chaining Man-o'-War creatures and replaying the U/G card draw creatures. The problem is that you need either 7 mana or to have cast Aluren on the previous turn.
What I'm looking for is a creature (CMC 3 or less) to replace Cloudtone Curio. It either needs to let me return 2 creatures, work like Cavern Harpy, or bounce a creature on cast. Some initial searches on Gatherer didn't get me anything useful. Does such a card exist with a U and/or G color identity?
There's Temur Sabertooth, which of course is itself 4-mana and doesn't play nicely with Aluren, plus you'd need at least one land that produces more than one mana to go infinite with Cloud of Faeries. Deadeye Navigator performs the same function with the same restrictions.
Invasive Species is the only ETB-bounce-a-perm creature less than 3cc that I know of in green, although there are a few in blue (Quickling/Dream Stalker come to mind).
I *feel* like there is something that could be done with Wormfang Drake. Let me think on it for a bit.
EDIT: I think this works. You have a creature in play that bounces a creature (let's say Quickling). You play Wormfang Drake and exile Quickling. Then you play another bounce creature (let's say Dream Stalker), which bounces Wormfang Drake, which releases Quickling, which bounces Dream Stalker. It doesn't produce any mana or let Cloud of Faeries do its thing, but it is infinite triggers for any other enter/leave thing you have and infinite draw from Momir Vig if you mix an Invasive Species in.
EDIT EDIT EDIT: Misread Momir Vig. It's only infinite draw if you mix in the Invasive Species for tutoring. Oops, corrected above.
EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: Of course, come to think of it, you could just do this combo with the two self bouncers, no Wormfang Drake needed.
I'm assuming that you want to get rid of Cloudstone Curio for the extra three mana on the turn you want to combo. The problem is that it's a super unique ability and I don't think there is an easy solution.
If I understand correctly you want something that will do what Cavern Harpy does for Aluren decks in competitive formats (read: Legacy)? So you need something that bounces two creatures (like you said), so it can replace itself and not just give you +1 of an effect.
I did a search for every creature (u/g, cmc <= 3) that bounces anything at all, and didn't turn up anything that fits...
There are a lot of self-bouncers and Man-o-wars, of course. An alternative might be to play a ton of those (there are easily 5 or 6) and go for infinite ETB triggers? Replace Trophy Mage with Trinket Mage and fetch Altar of the Brood?
If you really love Aluren combos and want to build the deck around them, I think Sultai would be the right colors for it :/
Tho maybe it's just a fun Momir Vig deck with Aluren tech
Yeah, the deck is going to stay Momir (it's actually my younger brother's deck that he asked me to tune up). Aluren seemed like a great option since there were a bunch of low CMC U/G creatures.
Thank you for the advice Iansisle, but I unfortunately came to that same conclusion. Wormfang Drake just functions as a self-bouncer. Although Invasive Species plus a blue bouncing creature gets me all of my creatures into my hand, so that's something.
You could work with Panharmonicon. I mean, it's not ideal but even without going comboy, Panharmonicon should give you some extra value so that's something?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
You could work with Panharmonicon. I mean, it's not ideal but even without going comboy, Panharmonicon should give you some extra value so that's something?
Oh yeah. Panharmonicon is already earmarked for the build. The deck as it stands is kind of an ETB value deck with a DEN/Palinchron/Soul of the Harvest finisher. I'm just streamlining the win condition.
Actually, you just need to get 3 mana. That is much easier. E.g. assuming two islands in play (i think you do not need that either but I am too lazy right now to avoid it): play coiling oracle -> fetch and get Heritage Druid from vig trigger -> play druid in response to etb trigger from oracle. Use druids trigger from vig to fetch Selkie Hedge-Mage and draw ir from oracles trigger. Get three mana from druid tapping oracle, vig and druid. Play selkie and fetch and get treasure mage. Bounce oracle using trigger from selkie. Play treasure mage and get curio. Play curio. Play oracle and you are off.
Actually, you just need to get 3 mana. That is much easier. E.g. assuming two islands in play (i think you do not need that either but I am too lazy right now to avoid it): play coiling oracle -> fetch and get Heritage Druid from vig trigger -> play druid in response to etb trigger from oracle. Use druids trigger from vig to fetch Selkie Hedge-Mage and draw ir from oracles trigger. Get three mana from druid tapping oracle, vig and druid. Play selkie and fetch and get treasure mage. Bounce oracle using trigger from selkie. Play treasure mage and get curio. Play curio. Play oracle and you are off.
Wow, I actually feel kind of dumb. I've been playing with an elves player for years and somehow this didn't register. This should work, thanks.
Actually, you just need to get 3 mana. That is much easier. E.g. assuming two islands in play (i think you do not need that either but I am too lazy right now to avoid it): play coiling oracle -> fetch and get Heritage Druid from vig trigger -> play druid in response to etb trigger from oracle. Use druids trigger from vig to fetch Selkie Hedge-Mage and draw ir from oracles trigger. Get three mana from druid tapping oracle, vig and druid. Play selkie and fetch and get treasure mage. Bounce oracle using trigger from selkie. Play treasure mage and get curio. Play curio. Play oracle and you are off.
Yep, this would work. Although I'd grab Invasive Species/Man-o'-War first to search up all of the creatures I need without having to stack triggers. I'm actually a little embarrassed I didn't think of this. I've played elves for years.
Alright, I think I have my answer now. Just adding in Invasive Species and Heritage Druid gets me everything I need. Thanks guys.
Yeah, half of those are already in it. The old Palinchron/Deadeye Navigator/Soul of the Harvest loop is in there already. This just gives it a backup combo while only adding 3 cards, 2 of which are useful without the combo. Thank you, though.
You can extend the combo further by chaining Man-o'-War creatures and replaying the U/G card draw creatures. The problem is that you need either 7 mana or to have cast Aluren on the previous turn.
What I'm looking for is a creature (CMC 3 or less) to replace Cloudtone Curio. It either needs to let me return 2 creatures, work like Cavern Harpy, or bounce a creature on cast. Some initial searches on Gatherer didn't get me anything useful. Does such a card exist with a U and/or G color identity?
No need for Cloudstone Curio at all.
Momir Vig & Aluren out.
1. play any UG creature
2. fetch and draw Nulltread Gargantuan
3. play NG -> fetch and draw Man-o-War -> put NG on top
4. play MoW -> draw NG -> bounce MoW back to hand
we have now established a mechanism to fetch every creature in our deck:
START: NG & MoW in hand
1. play NG -> fetch and draw the desired creature -> put NG on top
2. play MoW -> draw NG -> bounce MoW back to hand
END: NG & MoW in hand + desired creature in hand
Use this loop to find any creatures you might need. The simplest line is below:
1. fetch and draw Sage's Row Denizen
2. play and bounce MoW infinitely to mill everyone
You can extend the combo further by chaining Man-o'-War creatures and replaying the U/G card draw creatures. The problem is that you need either 7 mana or to have cast Aluren on the previous turn.
What I'm looking for is a creature (CMC 3 or less) to replace Cloudtone Curio. It either needs to let me return 2 creatures, work like Cavern Harpy, or bounce a creature on cast. Some initial searches on Gatherer didn't get me anything useful. Does such a card exist with a U and/or G color identity?
No need for Cloudstone Curio at all.
Momir Vig & Aluren out.
1. play any UG creature
2. fetch and draw Nulltread Gargantuan
3. play NG -> fetch and draw Man-o-War -> put NG on top
4. play MoW -> draw NG -> bounce MoW back to hand
we have now established a mechanism to fetch every creature in our deck:
START: NG & MoW in hand
1. play NG -> fetch and draw the desired creature -> put NG on top
2. play MoW -> draw NG -> bounce MoW back to hand
END: NG & MoW in hand + desired creature in hand
Use this loop to find any creatures you might need. The simplest line is below:
1. fetch and draw Sage's Row Denizen
2. play and bounce MoW infinitely to mill everyone
That is correct. The Curio lets me loop Cloud of Faeries and Coiling Oracle to get all of my cards and infinite mana, however. I opted against the Sage's Row Denizen due to the prevalence of eldrazi titans in my meta. Plus, since the deck has an ETB goodstuff primary theme, the Curio does not go to waste as only a combo piece the way Denizen would. If you check out the spoilers in post #14 I have 2 similar loops. Thank you, though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1. Momir Vig, Simic Visionary + Aluren in play.
2. Cast Wistful Selkie/Coiling Oracle/Rogue Refiner
3. Search for Treasure Mage.
4. Mage gets Cloudstone Curio.
5. Cast Curio, cast a CMC 3 or less creature.
6. Return a creature from step 1 to hand.
7. Search up Cloud of Faeries.
8. You now have infinite mana and all of your cards.
You can extend the combo further by chaining Man-o'-War creatures and replaying the U/G card draw creatures. The problem is that you need either 7 mana or to have cast Aluren on the previous turn.
What I'm looking for is a creature (CMC 3 or less) to replace Cloudtone Curio. It either needs to let me return 2 creatures, work like Cavern Harpy, or bounce a creature on cast. Some initial searches on Gatherer didn't get me anything useful. Does such a card exist with a U and/or G color identity?
Invasive Species is the only ETB-bounce-a-perm creature less than 3cc that I know of in green, although there are a few in blue (Quickling/Dream Stalker come to mind).
Wizard Mentor if you could get haste (Concordant Crossroads or Thousand-Year Elixir).
I *feel* like there is something that could be done with Wormfang Drake. Let me think on it for a bit.
EDIT: I think this works. You have a creature in play that bounces a creature (let's say Quickling). You play Wormfang Drake and exile Quickling. Then you play another bounce creature (let's say Dream Stalker), which bounces Wormfang Drake, which releases Quickling, which bounces Dream Stalker. It doesn't produce any mana or let Cloud of Faeries do its thing, but it is infinite triggers for any other enter/leave thing you have and infinite draw from Momir Vig if you mix an Invasive Species in.
EDIT EDIT: Sage's Row Denizen makes it infinite mill.
EDIT EDIT EDIT: Misread Momir Vig. It's only infinite draw if you mix in the Invasive Species for tutoring. Oops, corrected above.
EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: Of course, come to think of it, you could just do this combo with the two self bouncers, no Wormfang Drake needed.
I'm assuming that you want to get rid of Cloudstone Curio for the extra three mana on the turn you want to combo. The problem is that it's a super unique ability and I don't think there is an easy solution.
I did a search for every creature (u/g, cmc <= 3) that bounces anything at all, and didn't turn up anything that fits...
There are a lot of self-bouncers and Man-o-wars, of course. An alternative might be to play a ton of those (there are easily 5 or 6) and go for infinite ETB triggers? Replace Trophy Mage with Trinket Mage and fetch Altar of the Brood?
If you really love Aluren combos and want to build the deck around them, I think Sultai would be the right colors for it :/
Tho maybe it's just a fun Momir Vig deck with Aluren tech
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Thank you for the advice Iansisle, but I unfortunately came to that same conclusion. Wormfang Drake just functions as a self-bouncer. Although Invasive Species plus a blue bouncing creature gets me all of my creatures into my hand, so that's something.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
Yep, that's the combo I'm going for. I undestand the steps involved, I'm just looking for a way to get it to work with only Aluren.
Oh yeah. Panharmonicon is already earmarked for the build. The deck as it stands is kind of an ETB value deck with a DEN/Palinchron/Soul of the Harvest finisher. I'm just streamlining the win condition.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Wow, I actually feel kind of dumb. I've been playing with an elves player for years and somehow this didn't register. This should work, thanks.
Yep, this would work. Although I'd grab Invasive Species/Man-o'-War first to search up all of the creatures I need without having to stack triggers. I'm actually a little embarrassed I didn't think of this. I've played elves for years.
Alright, I think I have my answer now. Just adding in Invasive Species and Heritage Druid gets me everything I need. Thanks guys.
You are right - I had copied it from the first post. It should be Trophy mage.
That said, I think the best combo with vig right now is Vizier of the Menagerie + heritage druid + 1 drop elves.
for anyone that was following this thread: I've done a bit more thinking on this and it can actually work with just Invasive Species/Man-o'-War or Nulltread Gargantuan/Phantasmal Image/Coiling Oracle paired with a Cloud of Faeries.
With Momir Vig & Aluren in play:
With Momir Vig & Aluren in play:
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Yeah, half of those are already in it. The old Palinchron/Deadeye Navigator/Soul of the Harvest loop is in there already. This just gives it a backup combo while only adding 3 cards, 2 of which are useful without the combo. Thank you, though.
Yeah, that's in there, too/
Momir Vig & Aluren out.
1. play any UG creature
2. fetch and draw Nulltread Gargantuan
3. play NG -> fetch and draw Man-o-War -> put NG on top
4. play MoW -> draw NG -> bounce MoW back to hand
we have now established a mechanism to fetch every creature in our deck:
START: NG & MoW in hand
1. play NG -> fetch and draw the desired creature -> put NG on top
2. play MoW -> draw NG -> bounce MoW back to hand
END: NG & MoW in hand + desired creature in hand
Use this loop to find any creatures you might need. The simplest line is below:
1. fetch and draw Sage's Row Denizen
2. play and bounce MoW infinitely to mill everyone
That is correct. The Curio lets me loop Cloud of Faeries and Coiling Oracle to get all of my cards and infinite mana, however. I opted against the Sage's Row Denizen due to the prevalence of eldrazi titans in my meta. Plus, since the deck has an ETB goodstuff primary theme, the Curio does not go to waste as only a combo piece the way Denizen would. If you check out the spoilers in post #14 I have 2 similar loops. Thank you, though.