MTG Salvation

For reference: Izzet Chemister

Does this seem like a solid card, or is it just me? Another option like Mizzix’s Mastery for casting spells directly from the grave is highly welcome, and this isn’t nearly as good as the overload option on that, but all current options I am aware have self-exiling clauses, both on the copies and the spells themselves. So, Chemister seems like it could really do a lot of repeated work. With Time Stretch the game is over with any repeatable recursion like Phyrexian Reclamation.

Also, having Haste and an activated ability seems a lot more stable to me than options like Living Lore. Someone has to respond to the first ability with an Instant in order to really punish. And, the timing advantages of the second ability enable some Sorcery effects on another player’s turn, like Day’s Undoing or theft effects.

Although it has haste, without an untap option you're still not getting the spell until your next turn. I see this card as somewhat better than Living Lore since you do not need to actually contact with it to cast the spell (and could potentially get multiple spells at once). When playing this card, think of its mana cost as 2RR.

I could see this as a utility option in Samut, Voice of Dissent. Unfortunately, Day's Undoing does not end the turn unless it is your turn, although there are very few ways to instant speed wheel.

While it's a cool card, I'm afraid it's just too slow. You also always have to keep 2 mana open in case of emergency popping, so that's another strike against him. In any meta where boardwipes are common, I'm afraid this guy won't do much.

Quote from LouCypher »

While it's a cool card, I'm afraid it's just too slow. You also always have to keep 2 mana open in case of emergency popping, so that's another strike against him. In any meta where boardwipes are common, I'm afraid this guy won't do much.

I don't really see boardwipes being the problem, so much as "I activate him to exile just ONE LAST SPELL, so I can untap and do all sorts of great shenanigans!" "in response, kill him with targeted removal." "balls."

Cool card, though, I could see him doing nasty things. Somewhat slow, though, so I'd expect people with reasonable answers to prevent him from getting any amazing value without a lot of risk.

Day's undoing still sucks btw, since it doesn't end enemy turns. I mean I guess it's another time twister, but it's not like that card is anything all that special in most decks. Plus getting it in your graveyard requires a discard outlet or something.

Quote from DirkGently »

Plus getting [Day's Undoing] in your graveyard requires a discard outlet or something.

Or casting it on an opponent's turn the first time around!

Day's Undoing only exiles itself because it ends the turn, and it only ends the turn if cast on your turn. Cast on somebody else's turn, it might as well have been a budget Timetwister.

Of course, you do need some other card to enable flashing Day's Undoing, but still. Mill/discard isn't the only way to get it in your graveyard.

Quote from Lithl »

Quote from DirkGently »

Plus getting [Day's Undoing] in your graveyard requires a discard outlet or something.

Or casting it on an opponent's turn the first time around!

Day's Undoing only exiles itself because it ends the turn, and it only ends the turn if cast on your turn. Cast on somebody else's turn, it might as well have been a budget Timetwister.

Of course, you do need some other card to enable flashing Day's Undoing, but still. Mill/discard isn't the only way to get it in your graveyard.

I know how it works. Hence "or something".

I didn't really think it was worth the time to explain all the myriad ways one can get it into your graveyard, given that in basically every scenario it's a worse timetwister/wheel of fortune (maybe if you flash it, and then play word of command to force active player to commandeer it...in which case...well done I guess?).

The thing is though, I can’t see any replacement other than Mizzix Mastery that casts the spell for free. Otherwise, there’s just Eternal Witness and Mnemonic Wall type cards that return the spell to hand. That’ll obviously make a difference when you’re talking about spells like Enter the Infinite and Time Stretch.

Quote from Jusstice »

The thing is though, I can’t see any replacement other than Mizzix Mastery that casts the spell for free. Otherwise, there’s just Eternal Witness and Mnemonic Wall type cards that return the spell to hand. That’ll obviously make a difference when you’re talking about spells like Enter the Infinite and Time Stretch.

heads up btw - you don't need time stretch to go infinite with recursion, time warp will do the job just as well.

I want to like it, but it is slow. I can see it in some janky Marchesa, the Black Rose list that's able to bring him back if he's pinged. Marchesa lists tend to be pretty aggro anyway, so maybe not. Otherwise I'd struggle to find a place for him personally.

The cEDH folks are excited about this card in conjunction with Paradox Engine.

One good thing about Chemister is that the spells you cast go back to your graveyard, while Mastery would instead exile what's already in the GY. Mastery seems more reliable though, since Chemister requires two taps to even cast the first spell, being creature also makes him vulnerable unless you have a dedicated defense.

Quote from DirkGently »

Quote from Jusstice »

The thing is though, I can’t see any replacement other than Mizzix Mastery that casts the spell for free. Otherwise, there’s just Eternal Witness and Mnemonic Wall type cards that return the spell to hand. That’ll obviously make a difference when you’re talking about spells like Enter the Infinite and Time Stretch.

heads up btw - you don't need time stretch to go infinite with recursion, time warp will do the job just as well.

Yes, but suppose you have the same piece to return a creature to hand each turn, an active Oversold Cemetery for simplicity’s stake. Eternal Witness and Time Warp requires 8 mana, and Izzet Chemister and Time Stretch requires 6 mana. And other than that, I can’t think of anything involving any Regrowth effect that would beat the E-wit’s 8 mana requirement in the first place.

If you’re in a group where you’re doing things like this, the two mana savings is not insignificant. Realistically also, it will be more expensive than 0 to get the creature back from the grave, so going much north of 8 puts you in un-castable territory.

Time Magic, card draw, or burn spells seem worthwhile to copy, but the speed at which Izzet Chemister needs to operate needs to be significantly increased in order to actually be useful. Decks that naturally want Paradox Engine, naturally play a critical mass of instants/sorceries worth copying, and have a way of protecting it can really make a lot of waves with this. That's asking a lot, but the upside is significant if you can make that happen. It also means that he is relegated to URx decks.

One thing to remember (for those that care about such things) is that Izzet Chemister + Paradox Engine + Gilded Lotus allows you to sort of 'go off' by exiling every spell you play in a turn, then once you run out of spells you can sac Chemister to run them all back. It's useful for generating Storm count or for just trying to use Chemister the turn you play it in order to not leave it vulnerable. Chemister naturally ahving Haste was a good touch and actually makes it interesting enough to explore.

Without haste it'd be unplayable. As is, it's def worthy of consideration.