In a deck that's packed with instants? I mean you can always corpse dance a million times but that seems like a boringly goodstuff way to win.
Yea.... I didnt say it was interesting.... there are a lot of ways to loop him though.
Lashwrithe / Nightmare Lash aren't half bad either. They are hilarious when comboed with Altar of Dementia. Some have also gone the direction of Hatred too. In the right meta, False Cure can catch some for a kill on occasion too.
Torment of Hailfire, naturally. With sufficient X, it wins. With lower values of X, it will probably trigger Toshiro.
I've also got Exsanguinate, of course. And I've done mean things with Soul Conduit after drastically reducing my life total with Necropotence or Ad Nauseam. One time I swung at someone for 6 with Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis, the defending player sacrificed their only flying blocker, and before damage I poured ~20 life into Necro to get myself below 6, and then swapped life totals with my opponent. The perils of not paying attention to what people have in play.
how about old school: spirit of the night style points for weird art and the original creature with the most abilities
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In a deck that's packed with instants? I mean you can always corpse dance a million times but that seems like a boringly goodstuff way to win.
Yea.... I didnt say it was interesting.... there are a lot of ways to loop him though.
Lashwrithe / Nightmare Lash aren't half bad either. They are hilarious when comboed with Altar of Dementia. Some have also gone the direction of Hatred too. In the right meta, False Cure can catch some for a kill on occasion too.
Torment of Hailfire, naturally. With sufficient X, it wins. With lower values of X, it will probably trigger Toshiro.
I've also got Exsanguinate, of course. And I've done mean things with Soul Conduit after drastically reducing my life total with Necropotence or Ad Nauseam. One time I swung at someone for 6 with Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis, the defending player sacrificed their only flying blocker, and before damage I poured ~20 life into Necro to get myself below 6, and then swapped life totals with my opponent. The perils of not paying attention to what people have in play.
See, none of those wincons really feel like part of the toshiro deck, though. exsanguinate and torment of hailfire both want big mana, which toshiro isn't particularly inclined towards. At least rise of the dark realms is synergized with toshiro by reanimating all the crap he used his removal to kill. I like my decks to feel like they have a more holistic strategy than "here is a bunch of control things" and "here is a generic wincon that works on a totally different axis".
See, none of those wincons really feel like part of the toshiro deck, though. exsanguinate and torment of hailfire both want big mana, which toshiro isn't particularly inclined towards. At least rise of the dark realms is synergized with toshiro by reanimating all the crap he used his removal to kill. I like my decks to feel like they have a more holistic strategy than "here is a bunch of control things" and "here is a generic wincon that works on a totally different axis".
In what way does "I want to pay for all of my instants twice" not sound like "wants big mana"? Especially when it comes to instant-speed removal spells, where you have to pay for the second cast immediately if you don't want to be dependent on the things your opponents are doing to get Toshiro triggers.
See, none of those wincons really feel like part of the toshiro deck, though. exsanguinate and torment of hailfire both want big mana, which toshiro isn't particularly inclined towards. At least rise of the dark realms is synergized with toshiro by reanimating all the crap he used his removal to kill. I like my decks to feel like they have a more holistic strategy than "here is a bunch of control things" and "here is a generic wincon that works on a totally different axis".
In what way does "I want to pay for all of my instants twice" not sound like "wants big mana"? Especially when it comes to instant-speed removal spells, where you have to pay for the second cast immediately if you don't want to be dependent on the things your opponents are doing to get Toshiro triggers.
Most of black's best removal spells are in the 1-3 range. Also since they all (presumably) cost at least B to use, it means he gets a lot less value off big colorless producers which work well with X spells. Also some of the really big mana producers like coffers and doubling cube generate mana in one big burst, which he's not necessarily interested in either if he's trying to keep mana up to control various things at different times.
I'm not saying he doesn't want a decent amount of mana, but if your deck is mostly control, trying to build up the kind of mana it takes to one-shot someone with exsanguinate doesn't really seem like the sort of thing he's going to otherwise want to bother doing. As compared to someone like Drana, who will presumably be much more interested in big stacks of colorless mana all at once, rather than medium stacks of mostly black mana in small to medium increments.
See, none of those wincons really feel like part of the toshiro deck, though. exsanguinate and torment of hailfire both want big mana, which toshiro isn't particularly inclined towards. At least rise of the dark realms is synergized with toshiro by reanimating all the crap he used his removal to kill. I like my decks to feel like they have a more holistic strategy than "here is a bunch of control things" and "here is a generic wincon that works on a totally different axis".
In what way does "I want to pay for all of my instants twice" not sound like "wants big mana"? Especially when it comes to instant-speed removal spells, where you have to pay for the second cast immediately if you don't want to be dependent on the things your opponents are doing to get Toshiro triggers.
Most of black's best removal spells are in the 1-3 range. Also since they all (presumably) cost at least B to use, it means he gets a lot less value off big colorless producers which work well with X spells. Also some of the really big mana producers like coffers and doubling cube generate mana in one big burst, which he's not necessarily interested in either if he's trying to keep mana up to control various things at different times.
I'm not saying he doesn't want a decent amount of mana, but if your deck is mostly control, trying to build up the kind of mana it takes to one-shot someone with exsanguinate doesn't really seem like the sort of thing he's going to otherwise want to bother doing. As compared to someone like Drana, who will presumably be much more interested in big stacks of colorless mana all at once, rather than medium stacks of mostly black mana in small to medium increments.
I personally used Toshiro and instants to keep the board clear while using infect and poison creatures to go for the kill. It worked really well in tiny leaders, not so well in full-blown Commander, even with the addition of Skittles. I've been trying to decide what my new wincon should be, but that's the thing with Toshiro - he is a great value engine but doesn't indicate a default wincon. It's pretty much whatever wincon you want, with Toshiro providing value along the way.
See, none of those wincons really feel like part of the toshiro deck, though. exsanguinate and torment of hailfire both want big mana, which toshiro isn't particularly inclined towards. At least rise of the dark realms is synergized with toshiro by reanimating all the crap he used his removal to kill. I like my decks to feel like they have a more holistic strategy than "here is a bunch of control things" and "here is a generic wincon that works on a totally different axis".
In what way does "I want to pay for all of my instants twice" not sound like "wants big mana"? Especially when it comes to instant-speed removal spells, where you have to pay for the second cast immediately if you don't want to be dependent on the things your opponents are doing to get Toshiro triggers.
Most of black's best removal spells are in the 1-3 range. Also since they all (presumably) cost at least B to use, it means he gets a lot less value off big colorless producers which work well with X spells. Also some of the really big mana producers like coffers and doubling cube generate mana in one big burst, which he's not necessarily interested in either if he's trying to keep mana up to control various things at different times.
I'm not saying he doesn't want a decent amount of mana, but if your deck is mostly control, trying to build up the kind of mana it takes to one-shot someone with exsanguinate doesn't really seem like the sort of thing he's going to otherwise want to bother doing. As compared to someone like Drana, who will presumably be much more interested in big stacks of colorless mana all at once, rather than medium stacks of mostly black mana in small to medium increments.
I personally used Toshiro and instants to keep the board clear while using infect and poison creatures to go for the kill. It worked really well in tiny leaders, not so well in full-blown Commander, even with the addition of Skittles. I've been trying to decide what my new wincon should be, but that's the thing with Toshiro - he is a great value engine but doesn't indicate a default wincon. It's pretty much whatever wincon you want, with Toshiro providing value along the way.
There's a few decent instants that give some wincon potential - most notably fated return and empty the pits - but they probably don't have enough oomph even with a double cast.
I personally have a Mon-Black suicide aggro deck with Iname, Death Aspect at the helm. Basically it uses a supercharged graveyard to power out very cheap threats (Think Delve, mass reanimation, Avatar of Woe or Mortivore like cards) to put out massive damage relatively quickly. Even things like Liliana's Elite becomes a 23/23 with a Dark Ritualed out Iname. Really catches opponents with their pants down.
Additionally, you have good late game by being able to constantly recur threats out of your graveyard (think Kokusho) to finish off the table.
Yeah, this is also true. One of my friends built a Chainer Aristocrats deck, and having Altar of Dementia in play meant that he could basically deck an entire player or two with Grave Titan or Wurmcoil Engine.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
The first thing my mind went to was Oloro, Ageless Ascetic. Just because a commander has a set of colors , if they have an ability that occurs within the command zone, they essentially become a Vanguard-card/emblem and you don't have to use all/any of their color identity if you really don't want to do so.
You can use the Ur-dragon for black dragon tribal and essentially have yourself a Hanna Vanguard card without the five life drawback.
It is too easy to make a monoblack vampire deck and Edgar Markov can continue to make that possible.
Personally, I think the hardest to run would be Inalla, but at a glance there looks to be enough monoblack wizards (not sure if there are enough good ones, but Conspiracy would help with that.
I vote for Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder but I am obviously biased since he is my mono-black commander. Getting free Thrulls to use and abuse leads to all sort of shenanigans.
I've also got Exsanguinate, of course. And I've done mean things with Soul Conduit after drastically reducing my life total with Necropotence or Ad Nauseam. One time I swung at someone for 6 with Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis, the defending player sacrificed their only flying blocker, and before damage I poured ~20 life into Necro to get myself below 6, and then swapped life totals with my opponent. The perils of not paying attention to what people have in play.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
spirit of the night style points for weird art and the original creature with the most abilities
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I'm not saying he doesn't want a decent amount of mana, but if your deck is mostly control, trying to build up the kind of mana it takes to one-shot someone with exsanguinate doesn't really seem like the sort of thing he's going to otherwise want to bother doing. As compared to someone like Drana, who will presumably be much more interested in big stacks of colorless mana all at once, rather than medium stacks of mostly black mana in small to medium increments.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Any time I can really justify some Misinformation
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
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EDHREC
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EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Additionally, you have good late game by being able to constantly recur threats out of your graveyard (think Kokusho) to finish off the table.
Here's the link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autocardanywhere/eobkhgkgoejnjaiofdmphhkemmomfabg?hl=en
Yeah, this is also true. One of my friends built a Chainer Aristocrats deck, and having Altar of Dementia in play meant that he could basically deck an entire player or two with Grave Titan or Wurmcoil Engine.
You can use the Ur-dragon for black dragon tribal and essentially have yourself a Hanna Vanguard card without the five life drawback.
It is too easy to make a monoblack vampire deck and Edgar Markov can continue to make that possible.
Personally, I think the hardest to run would be Inalla, but at a glance there looks to be enough monoblack wizards (not sure if there are enough good ones, but Conspiracy would help with that.
The other options I looked at building or that I have played against that seemed interesting were Chainer, Dementia Master (Reanimation on an epic scale), Gonti, Lord of Luxury (Playing with other people's stuff can be fun... for me), and Marrow-Gnawer (Rats!). And even then, I think cards like Ghoulcaller Gisa, Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, and Balthor the Defiled would all make excellent commanders.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections