I am still trying to nail down the balance but right now the possibility space for how this deck can be built is wide open and can swing wildly but I think it will generally land into a Tempo/Combo Control/Combo space depending on how much the person enjoys attacking with their Commander.
I see a good amount of enthusiasm in playing Mairsil, and I playtested several decks posted here and online.
Thus far, there are several ways to win with Mairsil:
1) Combo is the most common one
2) Creature/token based that has greater board presence (some with damage from Purphoros)
3) Control deck, with minimal caged targets, maintain defense and using Mairsil as a trickster who could counter spells and remove permanents.
4) Voltron, which is rare, equipping/enchant Mairsil while caging wonderful creatures like Morphling.
Pure combo version is just like other combo deck, you can assemble pieces very quickly and win early, but if you fail it's hard to come back, riskier in multiplayer game. By comparison, creature/token based deck can still win or at least defend until you get Marsil to activate a wincon. Control I feel is the most stable handsize wise since, well, it's a control deck, and it could afford to play a long game. Voltron is quite fun to play, since it makes the already hard to kill general even harder to remove, and more dangerous even with low number of caged targets.
Then some decks emphasize on artifacts, some on creatures, some on reanimation, in the end different players would want different things out of Mairsil. I'm not a fan of uber combo deck, but I think having one or two combos in a deck makes it a lot more versatile, just in case opponents handled other strategies.
My take is probably going to be less combo and more value, a combination of #2 and #3.
This is the kind of dumb stuff I can not wait to come out of this guy.
Care to explain? I got the part where you can lower your attack power with Avenger and get shadow, tap to turn someone's health into 3, then hit him with a direct attack... looks like an untap is missing here.
Isn't turning your opponent's lifetotal to 4 with a caged tree and shooting them for 4 with a spikeshot elder not more effecient? No untap required. If you have an untapper caged, that's great, but not vital.
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
Isn't turning your opponent's lifetotal to 4 with a caged tree and shooting them for 4 with a spikeshot elder not more effecient? No untap required. If you have an untapper caged, that's great, but not vital.
For the same cost and adding a possible untap effect if you want to combo with something else there's Hateflayer
I'm a little confused by this statement. Not just any mana rock would allow Mairsil to go infinite; you would need to have a mana rock that makes 3 mana and blue mana if you cage Quicksilver Elemental, right? (You'd need 1 to untap, U to activate Quicksilver elemental, and a U to float to get infinite activations, it seems.)
I'm pretty interested in making a less streamlined artifact-oriented version of this deck, as there are a lot of fun value artifacts like planar bridge that Mairsil can get good use out of.
Unblockable
Vigilance
Declare Attacker
Switch 4 with player who has at least 21 life
Switch Power Toughness
Hit a different player for lethal commander damage
Goodness, I didn't think about commander damage. Mairsil be like, "My butt became size 21 and I'm bumping you with it."
Isn't turning your opponent's lifetotal to 4 with a caged tree and shooting them for 4 with a spikeshot elder not more effecient? No untap required. If you have an untapper caged, that's great, but not vital.
With Taleran's method though, one player would be left with four life which then you can hit with Spikeshot, KO two players at once.
I'm a little confused by this statement. Not just any mana rock would allow Mairsil to go infinite; you would need to have a mana rock that makes 3 mana and blue mana if you cage Quicksilver Elemental, right? (You'd need 1 to untap, U to activate Quicksilver elemental, and a U to float to get infinite activations, it seems.)
I'm pretty interested in making a less streamlined artifact-oriented version of this deck, as there are a lot of fun value artifacts like planar bridge that Mairsil can get good use out of.
Activating Quicksilver Elemental's ability once gives you a copy of all activated abilities Mairsil has, without the once per turn restriction. You need U to kick it off, after that you only need 1 to untap each loop. There's no need to activate Quicksilver's ability multiple times.
Quicksilver Elemental is one of the cards I'm skipping for that reason. Too easy to go infinite with it and that's not what I want out of the deck.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I'm a little confused by this statement. Not just any mana rock would allow Mairsil to go infinite; you would need to have a mana rock that makes 3 mana and blue mana if you cage Quicksilver Elemental, right? (You'd need 1 to untap, U to activate Quicksilver elemental, and a U to float to get infinite activations, it seems.)
I'm pretty interested in making a less streamlined artifact-oriented version of this deck, as there are a lot of fun value artifacts like planar bridge that Mairsil can get good use out of.
Activating Quicksilver Elemental's ability once gives you a copy of all activated abilities Mairsil has, without the once per turn restriction. You need U to kick it off, after that you only need 1 to untap each loop. There's no need to activate Quicksilver's ability multiple times.
Quicksilver Elemental is one of the cards I'm skipping for that reason. Too easy to go infinite with it and that's not what I want out of the deck.
Oh, I see! Thanks for clearing that up for me. I've been thinking of playing a subgame with Mairsil. Maybe seeding my deck with X number of cards that he has to cage to win the game... there's a lot to do with him, and I do like that he makes every new set exciting, as every set will have some good activated ability for him to abuse (one would hope...)
I do like him as one of the weirdest voltron commanders possible. Aetherling and Co. seem really great when you can also slap a sword or two on him. Could be a fun take.
Has anyone Considered Oblivion Stone For Mairsil? Sure the ability is far more expensive than Disk but with an untap effect you can repeatedly blow the field and keep him for 9 Mana.
After futher thought, here's my list built around Mirror-Mad Phantasm. This list is not tuned or really tested, but is a fast combo deck that can consistently win on or before turn 5. I like the idea of Quicksilver Elemental as a work around of Mairsil's ability, but caging multiple cards seems slow and difficult. With the line of: Entomb effect --> Mirror-Mad Phantasm --> caging the Phantasm with Mairsil, the Pretender --> Activate ability of Mirror-Mad Phantasm on Mairsil with at least 3 mana available --> Unearth Fatestitcher and Dregscape Zombie --> Sacrifice three creatures to Dread Return (the third being Narcomoeba), reanimating Laboratory Maniac --> flashback Deep Analysis winning the game on the spot! The rest of the deck is draw, search, and permission. I feel that with proper tuning this deck can be quite strong, but maybe I'm on the wrong thread or I'm misunderstanding the rules nuances of Phantasm being caged by Mairsil. What do you all think?
After futher thought, here's my list built around Mirror-Mad Phantasm. This list is not tuned or really tested, but is a fast combo deck that can consistently win on or before turn 5. I like the idea of Quicksilver Elemental as a work around of Mairsil's ability, but caging multiple cards seems slow and difficult. With the line of: Entomb effect --> Mirror-Mad Phantasm --> caging the Phantasm with Mairsil, the Pretender --> Activate ability of Mirror-Mad Phantasm on Mairsil with at least 3 mana available --> Unearth Fatestitcher and Dregscape Zombie --> Sacrifice three creatures to Dread Return (the third being Narcomoeba), reanimating Laboratory Maniac --> flashback Deep Analysis winning the game on the spot! The rest of the deck is draw, search, and permission. I feel that with proper tuning this deck can be quite strong, but maybe I'm on the wrong thread or I'm misunderstanding the rules nuances of Phantasm being caged by Mairsil. What do you all think?
I'm brewing an artifacts based list with Ballista or Memnarch as the win condition. Someone brought up Mirror Mad Mairsil as a faster win-condition. Looking at this list, it looks very much like a Hermit Druid combo list (sans green). The concept looks sound---there's just very little in regards to combo protection here.
There's Pact, Arcane Denial, Swan Song, and maybe Izzet Charm if everyone is tapped out. For a combo that relies on two spells (Dread Return and Deep Analysis), I feel like you want maybe a bit more on-the-stack protection.
Otherwise, the deck looks interesting. Why Doomsday though? Just an alternative win con?
Doomsday would be an alternate win con that doesn't cost much space in the deck- Lab Maniac, Gitaxian Probe, and Gush are all fine in the deck otherwise. Granted, I really don't know that much about cEDH or dedicated combo decks, I'm just excited to brew with new cards. Also the tutors can make it easier to get counters once you have the combo set up. Thanks for the feedback, is your list already on this thread?
I got to play a couple games with Mairsil and here's my takeaways.
The thing I dislike about Mairsil is that he (she? everyone's saying he but frankly I'm not sure) wears his power on his sleeve. For my build, I tutored up aetherling ASAP, which already means he's almost unkillable. Then you add in something like disk combo or tree of perdition or whatever, and suddenly you're #1 threat very quickly.
I think aethering is too versatile not to use, but it does kind of paint a target on your head because killing you is the only real way to deal with Mairsil short of sudden death into forbid or something. And then stuff like disk and tree are really strong but also really target-painty. Which is fine if you're into that thing, but I don't love decks that immediately force an archenemy situation, I'd rather play politics and exhaust my opponents' resources a bit.
I wonder if there's a good way to play Mairsil more conservatively, with abilities like shauku, endbringer and arcanis the omnipotent that let you do powerful things without becomes a must-answer threat.
The thing I dislike about Mairsil is that he (she? everyone's saying he but frankly I'm not sure) wears his power on his sleeve. For my build, I tutored up aetherling ASAP, which already means he's almost unkillable. Then you add in something like disk combo or tree of perdition or whatever, and suddenly you're #1 threat very quickly.
Did you try "Flip attack and Defense." After you Tree'd someone?
disk doesn't though, and you can blink mairsil in response to the activation to keep destructing over and over.
If you cage us something like Aetherling you have an extremely resilient commander backed up with control elements.
Thus far, there are several ways to win with Mairsil:
1) Combo is the most common one
2) Creature/token based that has greater board presence (some with damage from Purphoros)
3) Control deck, with minimal caged targets, maintain defense and using Mairsil as a trickster who could counter spells and remove permanents.
4) Voltron, which is rare, equipping/enchant Mairsil while caging wonderful creatures like Morphling.
Pure combo version is just like other combo deck, you can assemble pieces very quickly and win early, but if you fail it's hard to come back, riskier in multiplayer game. By comparison, creature/token based deck can still win or at least defend until you get Marsil to activate a wincon. Control I feel is the most stable handsize wise since, well, it's a control deck, and it could afford to play a long game. Voltron is quite fun to play, since it makes the already hard to kill general even harder to remove, and more dangerous even with low number of caged targets.
Then some decks emphasize on artifacts, some on creatures, some on reanimation, in the end different players would want different things out of Mairsil. I'm not a fan of uber combo deck, but I think having one or two combos in a deck makes it a lot more versatile, just in case opponents handled other strategies.
My take is probably going to be less combo and more value, a combination of #2 and #3.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Like for example a Aetherling + Jodah's Avenger + Tree of Perdition + Turtleshell Changeling kinda OHKO for 1UU and 4 Cages, that also cripples whoever's life you have just stolen.
This is the kind of dumb stuff I can not wait to come out of this guy.
Care to explain? I got the part where you can lower your attack power with Avenger and get shadow, tap to turn someone's health into 3, then hit him with a direct attack... looks like an untap is missing here.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Unblockable
Vigilance
Declare Attacker
Switch 4 with player who has at least 21 life
Switch Power Toughness
Hit a different player for lethal commander damage
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
For the same cost and adding a possible untap effect if you want to combo with something else there's Hateflayer
I'm a little confused by this statement. Not just any mana rock would allow Mairsil to go infinite; you would need to have a mana rock that makes 3 mana and blue mana if you cage Quicksilver Elemental, right? (You'd need 1 to untap, U to activate Quicksilver elemental, and a U to float to get infinite activations, it seems.)
I'm pretty interested in making a less streamlined artifact-oriented version of this deck, as there are a lot of fun value artifacts like planar bridge that Mairsil can get good use out of.
Goodness, I didn't think about commander damage. Mairsil be like, "My butt became size 21 and I'm bumping you with it."
With Taleran's method though, one player would be left with four life which then you can hit with Spikeshot, KO two players at once.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Quicksilver Elemental is one of the cards I'm skipping for that reason. Too easy to go infinite with it and that's not what I want out of the deck.
Oh, I see! Thanks for clearing that up for me. I've been thinking of playing a subgame with Mairsil. Maybe seeding my deck with X number of cards that he has to cage to win the game... there's a lot to do with him, and I do like that he makes every new set exciting, as every set will have some good activated ability for him to abuse (one would hope...)
I do like him as one of the weirdest voltron commanders possible. Aetherling and Co. seem really great when you can also slap a sword or two on him. Could be a fun take.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
1x Arid Mesa
1x Badlands
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Cascade Bluffs
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Flooded Strand
6x Island
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Mountain
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Sunken Ruins
3x Swamp
1x Underground River
1x Underground Sea
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volcanic Island
1x Watery Grave
1x Wooded Foothills
Enchantment (1)
1x Necropotence
Instant (21)
1x Arcane Denial
1x Brainstorm
1x Cabal Ritual
1x Crosis's Charm
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Dark Ritual
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Entomb
1x Frantic Search
1x Gush
1x Impulse
1x Intuition
1x Izzet Charm
1x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Pact of Negation
1x Predict
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Swan Song
1x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Arcanis the Omnipotent
1x Civilized Scholar Flip
1x Corpse Connoisseur
1x Dregscape Zombie
1x Fatestitcher
1x Laboratory Maniac
1x Leveler
1x Magus of the Wheel
1x Mirror-Mad Phantasm
1x Narcomoeba
1x Necrotic Ooze
1x Stinkweed Imp
Sorcery (18)
1x Buried Alive
1x Careful Study
1x Dark Petition
1x Deep Analysis
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Doomsday
1x Faithless Looting
1x Gamble
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Night's Whisper
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Thoughtseize
1x Treasure Cruise
1x Unearth
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Windfall
1x Basalt Monolith
1x Defense Grid
1x Dimir Signet
1x Izzet Signet
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mesmeric Orb
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Indulgence
---
I'm brewing an artifacts based list with Ballista or Memnarch as the win condition. Someone brought up Mirror Mad Mairsil as a faster win-condition. Looking at this list, it looks very much like a Hermit Druid combo list (sans green). The concept looks sound---there's just very little in regards to combo protection here.
There's Pact, Arcane Denial, Swan Song, and maybe Izzet Charm if everyone is tapped out. For a combo that relies on two spells (Dread Return and Deep Analysis), I feel like you want maybe a bit more on-the-stack protection.
Otherwise, the deck looks interesting. Why Doomsday though? Just an alternative win con?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lets-rage-cage-bro-mairsil-artifact-combo/
Going for combo as well, but utilizing Mairsil as either a back-up plan or to really ensure I always have access to a combo piece.
Yeah I guess so, I thought the "self destruct." came from the "Doesn't have a counter." part. My mistake.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
The thing I dislike about Mairsil is that he (she? everyone's saying he but frankly I'm not sure) wears his power on his sleeve. For my build, I tutored up aetherling ASAP, which already means he's almost unkillable. Then you add in something like disk combo or tree of perdition or whatever, and suddenly you're #1 threat very quickly.
I think aethering is too versatile not to use, but it does kind of paint a target on your head because killing you is the only real way to deal with Mairsil short of sudden death into forbid or something. And then stuff like disk and tree are really strong but also really target-painty. Which is fine if you're into that thing, but I don't love decks that immediately force an archenemy situation, I'd rather play politics and exhaust my opponents' resources a bit.
I wonder if there's a good way to play Mairsil more conservatively, with abilities like shauku, endbringer and arcanis the omnipotent that let you do powerful things without becomes a must-answer threat.
disk doesn't though, and you can blink mairsil in response to the activation to keep destructing over and over.
So that's why disk is a lot better.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Did you try "Flip attack and Defense." After you Tree'd someone?
Heh I would say both is the right answer.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
I don't really see how that would solve my issue with her as a commander? If anything it would make it worse.
Also all the creatures with that ability are p bad.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I was just curious, being able to dome someone for 40 Commander damage sounds pretty deadly.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan