I was wondering what direction one should take piloting Razaketh. I was thinking of some sort of combo/storm based taking what Griselbrand was doing. 8cc isnt really that bad since its mono black. Or would it be just best to make him a sack general that searches while punishing everyones board?? He was one of the few generals I was looking forward to playing out of HoD.
He's never going to be Griselbrand with regards to storm. Those decks were built in such a way that card volume was more important than card quality. I'd recommend making him into an attrition-based general. He's going to be a powerhouse with hand destruction (Mindslicer, for example) since he can recover from topdeck mode very effectively. Some combination of Grave Pacts and Bottomless Pits should get you into a good position. Combine that with B's ability to double mana with things like Cabal Coffers, Crypt Ghast, Gauntlet of Power, etc.
I think he's best in a traditional mono-black big mana deck, using token generators and sac outlets with Grave Pact effects to control the board and tutor up your win condition of choice. His mana cost is very high, but black has a ton of ways to generate a lot of mana. Coffers and the like will get the job done, but Black Market is also a strong choice in that particular deck. Exsanguinate or Gary are good win cons, and you can easily play a more grindy style if it's more to your liking.
I ordered cards for the deck. I found out I had zero black staples so it is going to cost me a nice penny. I'm going Helm of the Obediance + Layline combo for my finisher, with board wide sack engine.
I ordered cards for the deck. I found out I had zero black staples so it is going to cost me a nice penny. I'm going Helm of the Obediance + Layline combo for my finisher, with board wide sack engine.
Not to poo poo on your parade, but Helm of Obedience + Leyline of the Void combo generally is bad for multiple reasons. First, it only kills one player. Secondly, after you have assembled that combo, and let's say hypothetically you did pull it off, the other 3 players (assuming you are playing the traditional 4 player game) are absolutely going to gun for you, ESPECIALLY playing demonic tutor on a stick demon as your commander. If you didn't pull it off and didn't resolve the combo due to a stifle, trickbind, whatever, I can practically guarantee they will try and kill you just for trying it. People in EDH are petty like that unfortunately.
I think your best bet is to build him with the tutor function of his to just be a toolbox function, not to go H.A.M. combo mode since your opponents are going to either A. get really tired of it B. get really tired of it and wise up to the combo(s) you typically tutor or C. hate you for searching your deck for a minute every time you activate his ability, and then they will just choose not to play with you and play with their other group across the room. I dunno man, doesn't seem like a good time but if that is "your fun" then go nuts and see how long the fun lasts for you and your opponents before it starts wearing thin.
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"People are the worst. The worst thing about music is that people play it." - Mike Patton
I ordered cards for the deck. I found out I had zero black staples so it is going to cost me a nice penny. I'm going Helm of the Obediance + Layline combo for my finisher, with board wide sack engine.
Not to poo poo on your parade, but Helm of Obedience + Leyline of the Void combo generally is bad for multiple reasons. First, it only kills one player. Secondly, after you have assembled that combo, and let's say hypothetically you did pull it off, the other 3 players (assuming you are playing the traditional 4 player game) are absolutely going to gun for you, ESPECIALLY playing demonic tutor on a stick demon as your commander. If you didn't pull it off and didn't resolve the combo due to a stifle, trickbind, whatever, I can practically guarantee they will try and kill you just for trying it. People in EDH are petty like that unfortunately.
I think your best bet is to build him with the tutor function of his to just be a toolbox function, not to go H.A.M. combo mode since your opponents are going to either A. get really tired of it B. get really tired of it and wise up to the combo(s) you typically tutor or C. hate you for searching your deck for a minute every time you activate his ability, and then they will just choose not to play with you and play with their other group across the room. I dunno man, doesn't seem like a good time but if that is "your fun" then go nuts and see how long the fun lasts for you and your opponents before it starts wearing thin.
I'm going to be playing one of every black sweeper including the new Bontu's last Reconing. The play group is a casual play where we have pods of 4 with 2 rounds. we have anywhere between 16-24 people who show up. I dont think its going to be as bad as you say when we have a Gitrog player, and a player who plays the same blue Enter the Infinite combo. I'm known for playing chaos decks as I have played Norin several times, and even have a creatureless Mogis deck along with a Phenax mill.
I will have a couple different win cons to play with. I just think that the Helm + Leyline will allow me to atleast eliminate the main threat that is taking over the table. Or at least get a turn 1 leyline out and watch the combo players cry until they get a removal.
Besides the standard Exsanguinate win, what would you recommend?
I play big mana mono black control, with Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath as my general. I like Ob because he survives my boardwipes and because he can make a big 5/5 to protect my planeswalkers.
I don't know if your plan to run every boardwipe goes well with Razaketh. What creatures do you plan on sacrificing to his ability?
Sidisi, Undead Vizier might be better for your deck. She's a tutor at 5 mana then at 7 mana, then at 9 mana. She doesn't rely on you having sac fodder.
New card in HOU for big mana black is dope: Torment of Hailfire. The fact that they can't sacrifice lands is huge. Wiped a table with X=18, something Exsanguinate can't do, though an ex for 18 isn't bad either.
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Modern: -UBG Lantern Control-GW or RG or R Tron - G Stompy - C KCI Combo-
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
I play big mana mono black control, with Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath as my general. I like Ob because he survives my boardwipes and because he can make a big 5/5 to protect my planeswalkers.
I don't know if your plan to run every boardwipe goes well with Razaketh. What creatures do you plan on sacrificing to his ability?
Sidisi, Undead Vizier might be better for your deck. She's a tutor at 5 mana then at 7 mana, then at 9 mana. She doesn't rely on you having sac fodder.
I'm going to use Bitterblossom for token production. As well as ETB creatures
I'd assume slow combo, and maybe a side of Aristocrats/tokens and reanimator. You're going to need a lot of mana, so, break out all those mana rocks. Beyond that, it's your standard black control/combo deck. All this mana would suggest Exsanguinate and Torment of Hailfire as well.
But I should warn you, you really shouldn't have an 8-mana commander. I'm not even too crazy about 7 if green's not involved.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I play big mana mono black control, with Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath as my general. I like Ob because he survives my boardwipes and because he can make a big 5/5 to protect my planeswalkers.
I don't know if your plan to run every boardwipe goes well with Razaketh. What creatures do you plan on sacrificing to his ability?
Sidisi, Undead Vizier might be better for your deck. She's a tutor at 5 mana then at 7 mana, then at 9 mana. She doesn't rely on you having sac fodder.
I'm going to use Bitterblossom for token production. As well as ETB creatures
I play big mana mono black control, with Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath as my general. I like Ob because he survives my boardwipes and because he can make a big 5/5 to protect my planeswalkers.
I don't know if your plan to run every boardwipe goes well with Razaketh. What creatures do you plan on sacrificing to his ability?
Sidisi, Undead Vizier might be better for your deck. She's a tutor at 5 mana then at 7 mana, then at 9 mana. She doesn't rely on you having sac fodder.
I'm going to use Bitterblossom for token production. As well as ETB creatures
You probably don't need that many recurring creatures since your commander is a tutor. Razaketh can eat just about anything to tutor for your recurring creature, then cast it and tutor for a recursion tool like XHD if you need to get back whatever he ate first. I'd run two at most, personally.
You probably don't need that many recurring creatures since your commander is a tutor. Razaketh can eat just about anything to tutor for your recurring creature, then cast it and tutor for a recursion tool like XHD if you need to get back whatever he ate first. I'd run two at most, personally.
If I only had to choose two: Reassembling Skeleton and Brood of Cockroaches. One you can activate at instant speed to return to the battlefield, the other returns to your hand for free without any other restrictions (other than the life loss).
I'm just planning on running the demon in a Ghoulcaller Gisa deck rather than as the commander, but, he's extremely strong. Even if you don't run her as your general, her in the 99 would be decent too since she can make a lot of sacrifice fodder as well as just being a potent token maker that can win games with the sheer amount she can make.
Also, if you're going with the discard route to disable opponents while you topdeck/sac for tutors to work past that, Geth's Grimoire, Waste Not, and probably Liliana, Heretical Healer are all cards worth considering. Myojin of Night's Reach is also a potent discard creature. You can afford the mana cost with all the ramp/rocks you should be running to cast your commander.
Speaking of ramp/rocks: Bubbling Muck. It's amazing, and almost as good as High Tide (not an instant, doesn't provide U).
Pawn of Ulamog is a nice way to increase the creatures you got.
If I were planning to use Razzle to win a game though I am not sure he would be in the Command Zone, seems much sneakier and much more deadly from somewhere they won't see coming on the tin when you put the deck down.
Ophiomancer enables a DT on every upkeep Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder on the field prior to Razzle Dazzle being cast sets up 8 DT's when he resolves Pawn of Ulamog is a nice way to increase the creatures you got.
If I were planning to use Razzle to win a game though I am not sure he would be in the Command Zone, seems much sneakier and much more deadly from somewhere they won't see coming on the tin when you put the deck down.
Yeah, I was playing with a buddy of mine online and he was alternating between Razaketh, the Foulblooded and the same deck with Sidisi, Undead Vizier. He said he couldn’t decide which was better, but obvious to me that Sidisi was and that he was just overeager to make Razaketh good. The way it played out, Sidisi tutored mana about 3 times out of 4 and then I’m assuming accessed Razaketh about every time on second cast. Razaketh was predictably hurting for mana when a piece of the Urborg-Coffers combo was missing or the mana doubler got killed, which was quite often due to playing an 8-cost Demon as a general.
Honestly, I have seen a lot of hype around this guy, talk that he will get banned. All hype, imo. Demons have a reputation to live up to. I see close to zero chance that this one will get banned by an RC that is actually playing it and testing it. Diabolic Revelation is already a bargain-bin rare that sees no play, and it can fetch you 3 cards for the same mana without any restrictions. And funny thing, it will probably draw less hate after you tap out for it.
Honestly, I have seen a lot of hype around this guy, talk that he will get banned. All hype, imo. Demons have a reputation to live up to. I see close to zero chance that this one will get banned by an RC that is actually playing it and testing it. Diabolic Revelation is already a bargain-bin rare that sees no play, and it can fetch you 3 cards for the same mana without any restrictions. And funny thing, it will probably draw less hate after you tap out for it.
On one hand, I agree with you based on the fact that Protean Hulk was unbanned and there has nary been a peep about it getting rebanned; however, Razaketh has one aspect that seems to trigger the RC into banning: the game revolves around him when he resolves. The Hulk ends games and the RC seems to have no problem against that, with Coalition Victory being the odd exception. After all, they haven't banned all the other "I Win" buttons in the format. Razaketh, however, makes people want to play, kill, clone or steal him which is exactly like every other Banned Creature.
I finally resolved him in my Rakdos, Lord of Riots deck and it was disgusting. Razaketh single-handedly let me setup my entire lock upon resolution. If he hadn't, then my opponents would all be trying to kill, clone or steal his ass.
I'm of two minds regarded Razzle Dazzle. He's a lot of fun but the behaviour he evokes is similar to other banned cards.
That doesn't however read ad any different to any other really good creature in Commander.
Especially because most decks will not be set up to utilize him as the deck which firsts casts him.
In that was I find him akin to Hulk and almost still not as good as Concecrated Sphinx for pure value any deck having one of at the time (A card I am also seeing much less of these days).
As much as creatures seem central to EDH I do not think that alone tips this demon over into that category.
Ophiomancer enables a DT on every upkeep Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder on the field prior to Razzle Dazzle being cast sets up 8 DT's when he resolves Pawn of Ulamog is a nice way to increase the creatures you got.
If I were planning to use Razzle to win a game though I am not sure he would be in the Command Zone, seems much sneakier and much more deadly from somewhere they won't see coming on the tin when you put the deck down.
Yeah, I was playing with a buddy of mine online and he was alternating between Razaketh, the Foulblooded and the same deck with Sidisi, Undead Vizier. He said he couldn’t decide which was better, but obvious to me that Sidisi was and that he was just overeager to make Razaketh good. The way it played out, Sidisi tutored mana about 3 times out of 4 and then I’m assuming accessed Razaketh about every time on second cast. Razaketh was predictably hurting for mana when a piece of the Urborg-Coffers combo was missing or the mana doubler got killed, which was quite often due to playing an 8-cost Demon as a general.
Honestly, I have seen a lot of hype around this guy, talk that he will get banned. All hype, imo. Demons have a reputation to live up to. I see close to zero chance that this one will get banned by an RC that is actually playing it and testing it. Diabolic Revelation is already a bargain-bin rare that sees no play, and it can fetch you 3 cards for the same mana without any restrictions. And funny thing, it will probably draw less hate after you tap out for it.
It's my guess that you play on the higher end of the casual spectrum (because if you were playing highly competitive this guy would be completely unviable). Raz is unlikely to make waves there. I'm not worried about him at all in my meta. On the discussion following his release I came to the same conclusion as you: Sidisi is just better if you want to to degenerate things. Where I think the issue with Raz will be greatest is in the middle- and low-tier casual play. It's going to be the people picking up the cat tribal deck coming out that will have games ruined by this guy.
As the general level of the decks gets less tuned, the better an inefficient tutor gets. This guy could absolutely dominate in games where he's used to tutor the perfect answer to the situation. Looking at him as a combo enabler (like Griselbrand) is not looking at the real issue. I see this guy going down the same way PoK or Sundering Titan did. Basically, he's a casual game wrecker.
Raz seems best used in the 99 rather than as a general, something heavy on the reanimator and sacrifice combo adjacent like Ghave, Savra, Meren, Varolz, Jarad and the like. inifinte Zulaport Cutthroat and/or Blood Artist style of combo seems most appropriate.
A multiplayer victory has to exist beyond simply beating your opponent, there has to be a mutual enjoyment of everyone involved. If you win the game and everyone else is miserable then you've still lost. What gets played is irrelevant.
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BWREDGAR MARKOV VAMPIRESBWR
You could do any number of things, really.
Storm is tough. You need to sac creatures to tutor, and a high creature count is not really where you want to be for storm.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
BWREDGAR MARKOV VAMPIRESBWR
Not to poo poo on your parade, but Helm of Obedience + Leyline of the Void combo generally is bad for multiple reasons. First, it only kills one player. Secondly, after you have assembled that combo, and let's say hypothetically you did pull it off, the other 3 players (assuming you are playing the traditional 4 player game) are absolutely going to gun for you, ESPECIALLY playing demonic tutor on a stick demon as your commander. If you didn't pull it off and didn't resolve the combo due to a stifle, trickbind, whatever, I can practically guarantee they will try and kill you just for trying it. People in EDH are petty like that unfortunately.
I think your best bet is to build him with the tutor function of his to just be a toolbox function, not to go H.A.M. combo mode since your opponents are going to either A. get really tired of it B. get really tired of it and wise up to the combo(s) you typically tutor or C. hate you for searching your deck for a minute every time you activate his ability, and then they will just choose not to play with you and play with their other group across the room. I dunno man, doesn't seem like a good time but if that is "your fun" then go nuts and see how long the fun lasts for you and your opponents before it starts wearing thin.
I'm going to be playing one of every black sweeper including the new Bontu's last Reconing. The play group is a casual play where we have pods of 4 with 2 rounds. we have anywhere between 16-24 people who show up. I dont think its going to be as bad as you say when we have a Gitrog player, and a player who plays the same blue Enter the Infinite combo. I'm known for playing chaos decks as I have played Norin several times, and even have a creatureless Mogis deck along with a Phenax mill.
I will have a couple different win cons to play with. I just think that the Helm + Leyline will allow me to atleast eliminate the main threat that is taking over the table. Or at least get a turn 1 leyline out and watch the combo players cry until they get a removal.
Besides the standard Exsanguinate win, what would you recommend?
BWREDGAR MARKOV VAMPIRESBWR
Other than Exsanguinate, the deck can dump mana into Geth, Lord of the Vault, Profane Command, Pestilence (which is really good with Exquisite Blood), Damnable Pact, and Empty the Pits.
I don't know if your plan to run every boardwipe goes well with Razaketh. What creatures do you plan on sacrificing to his ability?
Sidisi, Undead Vizier might be better for your deck. She's a tutor at 5 mana then at 7 mana, then at 9 mana. She doesn't rely on you having sac fodder.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
I'm going to use Bitterblossom for token production. As well as ETB creatures
BWREDGAR MARKOV VAMPIRESBWR
But I should warn you, you really shouldn't have an 8-mana commander. I'm not even too crazy about 7 if green's not involved.
On phasing:
May I recommend Bloodghast?
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Hello friends it is I the Reassembling Skeleton please eat me repeatedly thank you for your attention.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
If I only had to choose two: Reassembling Skeleton and Brood of Cockroaches. One you can activate at instant speed to return to the battlefield, the other returns to your hand for free without any other restrictions (other than the life loss).
I'm just planning on running the demon in a Ghoulcaller Gisa deck rather than as the commander, but, he's extremely strong. Even if you don't run her as your general, her in the 99 would be decent too since she can make a lot of sacrifice fodder as well as just being a potent token maker that can win games with the sheer amount she can make.
Also, if you're going with the discard route to disable opponents while you topdeck/sac for tutors to work past that, Geth's Grimoire, Waste Not, and probably Liliana, Heretical Healer are all cards worth considering. Myojin of Night's Reach is also a potent discard creature. You can afford the mana cost with all the ramp/rocks you should be running to cast your commander.
Speaking of ramp/rocks: Bubbling Muck. It's amazing, and almost as good as High Tide (not an instant, doesn't provide U).
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
BWREDGAR MARKOV VAMPIRESBWR
Posted my deck list on the multiplayer forms.
BWREDGAR MARKOV VAMPIRESBWR
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder on the field prior to Razzle Dazzle being cast sets up 8 DT's when he resolves
Pawn of Ulamog is a nice way to increase the creatures you got.
If I were planning to use Razzle to win a game though I am not sure he would be in the Command Zone, seems much sneakier and much more deadly from somewhere they won't see coming on the tin when you put the deck down.
Yeah, I was playing with a buddy of mine online and he was alternating between Razaketh, the Foulblooded and the same deck with Sidisi, Undead Vizier. He said he couldn’t decide which was better, but obvious to me that Sidisi was and that he was just overeager to make Razaketh good. The way it played out, Sidisi tutored mana about 3 times out of 4 and then I’m assuming accessed Razaketh about every time on second cast. Razaketh was predictably hurting for mana when a piece of the Urborg-Coffers combo was missing or the mana doubler got killed, which was quite often due to playing an 8-cost Demon as a general.
Honestly, I have seen a lot of hype around this guy, talk that he will get banned. All hype, imo. Demons have a reputation to live up to. I see close to zero chance that this one will get banned by an RC that is actually playing it and testing it. Diabolic Revelation is already a bargain-bin rare that sees no play, and it can fetch you 3 cards for the same mana without any restrictions. And funny thing, it will probably draw less hate after you tap out for it.
On one hand, I agree with you based on the fact that Protean Hulk was unbanned and there has nary been a peep about it getting rebanned; however, Razaketh has one aspect that seems to trigger the RC into banning: the game revolves around him when he resolves. The Hulk ends games and the RC seems to have no problem against that, with Coalition Victory being the odd exception. After all, they haven't banned all the other "I Win" buttons in the format. Razaketh, however, makes people want to play, kill, clone or steal him which is exactly like every other Banned Creature.
I finally resolved him in my Rakdos, Lord of Riots deck and it was disgusting. Razaketh single-handedly let me setup my entire lock upon resolution. If he hadn't, then my opponents would all be trying to kill, clone or steal his ass.
I'm of two minds regarded Razzle Dazzle. He's a lot of fun but the behaviour he evokes is similar to other banned cards.
Mid-Tier:
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG
Especially because most decks will not be set up to utilize him as the deck which firsts casts him.
In that was I find him akin to Hulk and almost still not as good as Concecrated Sphinx for pure value any deck having one of at the time (A card I am also seeing much less of these days).
As much as creatures seem central to EDH I do not think that alone tips this demon over into that category.
It's my guess that you play on the higher end of the casual spectrum (because if you were playing highly competitive this guy would be completely unviable). Raz is unlikely to make waves there. I'm not worried about him at all in my meta. On the discussion following his release I came to the same conclusion as you: Sidisi is just better if you want to to degenerate things. Where I think the issue with Raz will be greatest is in the middle- and low-tier casual play. It's going to be the people picking up the cat tribal deck coming out that will have games ruined by this guy.
As the general level of the decks gets less tuned, the better an inefficient tutor gets. This guy could absolutely dominate in games where he's used to tutor the perfect answer to the situation. Looking at him as a combo enabler (like Griselbrand) is not looking at the real issue. I see this guy going down the same way PoK or Sundering Titan did. Basically, he's a casual game wrecker.