I love cards like Oreskos Explorer, Gift of Estates and Tajic. If it weren't for Tajic I would probably play Mono-White though. I actually don't use any Red at all outside of casting him.
Woo, another monowhite Tajic player. I do run Sunforger and some hybrid cards but yeah, Emeria is just too much of a payoff. I'm tempted to try monowhite Ephara just to get more consistent card draw off of bodies and token producers.
I think that the color combination is hindered much more by its lack of powerful generals than its inherent weaknesses. It's generals do not 1) support it's strength in stax/hate and 2) are not very good in multiplayer combat either.
A General that functions as a solid hate bear / stax element would bring Boros a lot closer to being able to compete. Out of the two color combinations (together with WG perhaps) it has the strongest array of cheap interaction for key permanent types as well as the greatest range of hate/MLD effects. Without a solid General to either break parity, act as another hate/lock piece, or be an effective win condition Boros is severely hindered.
And this brings me to my second point that for the color combination that is supposedly the best in combat, it does not have any generals that are actually very good at it in a multiplayer setting. Boros lacks good general options at low cmc for both supporting the team and for voltron more than most other two color combinations. The ones that scale in multiplayer have a high cmc and aside from Aurelia lack haste which really hinders their effectiveness in a color combination with only artifact ramp to depend upon. A General with Derevi's ability and good combo stats or a 4/3 flying lifelink haste for WWR would go a long way to making the color combination more competitive for a variety of deck types.
I have a Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas commander deck, and I can win Multiplayer games just fine. I have built in a way that it often shrugs off sweepers, as I include alot of means of making my commander (Bastion Protector is amazing with her.) and other creatures indestructible or able to just be immune to damage.(an Indestrucible Palisade Giant makes you and your creatures very hard to kill.) I can wipe out everyone elses stuff, and mine survives to quickly end the game. I don't need alot of cards to put people out of the game as Commander damage is ever present, and people quickly learned how scary this creature can be. Given your commander keeps it's experience counters, she will be dangerous all game long.
While it's a mixture of angels, soldiers and giants I do play alot of Legendary White and red creatures, so Heroes' PodiumLet's me just keep ripping them out of my deck if the game goes longer. My deck leans more heavily toward being white, so I can use Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx quickly generate a large amount of mana. I love getting effects like Odric, Lunarch Marshal and Concerted Effort as if you're going have creatures with awesome abilities, why not share them? Again another way of making your stuff indestructible.
I don't pull out my Boros deck and ever feel like it's gimped. It always holds it's own and wins enough to keep me happy with it's performance. Even the games I don't win someone usually finds their way out of a game from one massive giant attack hehe.
I use Cycling in my Boros deck. I run through my deck in no time, usually outpacing even the blue players long term, and deal massive damage usually starting around turn 4. If I happen to run into a Lightning Rift or Astral Slide along the way, cool. Usually doesn't matter though. Those cards are in there just for fun.
I use Cycling in my Boros deck. I run through my deck in no time, usually outpacing even the blue players long term, and deal massive damage usually starting around turn 4. If I happen to run into a Lightning Rift or Astral Slide along the way, cool. Usually doesn't matter though. Those cards are in there just for fun.
I use Cycling in my Boros deck. I run through my deck in no time, usually outpacing even the blue players long term, and deal massive damage usually starting around turn 4. If I happen to run into a Lightning Rift or Astral Slide along the way, cool. Usually doesn't matter though. Those cards are in there just for fun.
May I ask who is your general?
Lately I've been using Iroas, God of Victory. Mostly just for board presence as he is fairly cheap. He's actually made Fight to the Death really fun to play test. I don't always run Boros but when I feel like being aggressive and putting the table on their heels a bit, Boros works well.
Lately I've been using Iroas, God of Victory. Mostly just for board presence as he is fairly cheap. He's actually made Fight to the Death really fun to play test. I don't always run Boros but when I feel like being aggressive and putting the table on their heels a bit, Boros works well.
Aye, forcing opponents to combat regardless of their controlling scheme is a great way to even the field.
Lately I've been using Iroas, God of Victory. Mostly just for board presence as he is fairly cheap. He's actually made Fight to the Death really fun to play test. I don't always run Boros but when I feel like being aggressive and putting the table on their heels a bit, Boros works well.
Aye, forcing opponents to combat regardless of their controlling scheme is a great way to even the field.
Right. I'm not really an aggro player by nature. I prefer a mid-range slow roll myself, but sometimes bumping the tempo up can be fun. I also vastly underestimated Astral Slide as a political tool but wow. Being able to trigger other peoples ETB effects and untap is a nice favor. Also, Inquisitor's Flail has been a surprisingly reliable.
Now here is a card that can help Boros against control further.
It's much worse than notion thief, and it doesn't really give you card advantage so much as take it away from a single opponent.
It will replace itself when you catch someone with it, but then no one will cast their draw spells until it is gone. Unless you can catch a wheel with it, which is a niche case.
It won't help you against cards like phyrexian arena either.
It will replace itself when you catch someone with it, but then no one will cast their draw spells until it is gone. Unless you can catch a wheel with it, which is a niche case.
1) You have to think Boros, not Dimir. Boros main pressure via damage and make sure the board fight at equal insufficient level (Blood Moon, Stranglehold, Spirit of the Labyrinth, etc), opposite to typical blue/black/green decks where they would find answers by draw and tutor.
2) Boros doesn't lack Wheel effects, so when you say Alms Collector relies on opponent playing specific cards it's not entirely correct. It merely works "better" when opponent plays certain cards, but you can cast such spells yourself. The point is not drawing as many cards as possible like with Notion Thief, but how to make everyone draw less and equalizes the field.
3) Last I check, "No one will cast their draw spells until it is gone" is a good thing for WR decks that usually struggles at maintaining card advantage mid-late game. Hell, it's a good effect for any deck. On that function, Alms Collector is not very different from Notion Thief, plus Boros have many ways to protect their creatures.
It is true that Notion Thief is more powerful, but you have to think in the context of Boros color pie as a whole. Besides, Alms Collector is a lot stronger against opponent's Nekusar than Notion Thief would in a multiplayer game. Gotta think outside of the box.
Even though it is worse than the thief, I think if you're in Boros, you still play this card.
Being able to thief wheel in Boros is actually pretty legit.
Also, no one ever casts their draw spells into a Notion Thief after he catches the first. That being said, usually one is all you need and then he has already paid for himself.
This guy needs to do a little more to feel like he paid for himself.
if you play for example dimir or azorious....you also have only artifact ramp...so your argument about ramp is invalid
Too much needs to go right.
They have limited ability to tutor for a way to refill their hand, and limited cards in existence that can refill their hand in boros colors.
So even if they do get their ramp, they often won't have much to do with it, and they end up playing off the top of the deck too often.
This is much less of a problem in dimir and azorious.
Refilling your hand is a luxury you sacrifice for Boros speed and power. You don't need a handful of cards to win with Boros. Cycling will do just fine in most cases. Boros just needs to be able to dig. There are plenty of cantrip, cycling and scry effects for that.
The top tables end the game with combos before the 5th turn. Red/White are really bad in competitive games.
Actual game:
T1 Mountain, Mox Opal, Mox Diamond (pitch Plains), Sol Ring, Depala (commander)
T2 Plains, Basalt Monolith, Renegade Freighter
T3 Rings of Brighthearth (infinite colorless)
Tap Depala to crew Renegade Freighter, pay 100 mana for her trigger
Reveal Ovalchase Dragster, Fleetwheel Cruiser, and Mirror Entity (among others)
Cast vehicles and Entity
Crew Dragster with Entity
Activate Entity for X=ludicrous
Swing with Freighter, Dragster, and Cruiser for lethal on all opponents.
Sure, most of the time my Depala deck goes to turn 12-15 or so, but Boros is capable of being fast, too.
I've had a pretty typical Boros deck - equipment, aggressive general, MLD etc. - for a long time. It's had a few generals down the years, but Aurelia, the Warleader was the one that stuck around. A couple of months back, I decided to freshen things up, and switch general to Akiri, Line-Slinger. My initial thoughts were to stay Boros with Bruse as a partner but eventually settled on Tymna the Weaver. Black is no more than a splash in the deck, with only Demonic Tutor, Dark Confidant and Toxic Deluge, as well as access to Cranial Plating, and the deck still plays out like my old Boros deck did. But having access to what is almost always at least a Phyrexian Arena in the command zone just makes things run so much easier. The Boros core of the deck still does most of the work actually killing people, but adding in some reliable card draw makes such a difference.
The top tables end the game with combos before the 5th turn. Red/White are really bad in competitive games.
Actual game:
T1 Mountain, Mox Opal, Mox Diamond (pitch Plains), Sol Ring, Depala (commander)
T2 Plains, Basalt Monolith, Renegade Freighter
T3 Rings of Brighthearth (infinite colorless)
Tap Depala to crew Renegade Freighter, pay 100 mana for her trigger
Reveal Ovalchase Dragster, Fleetwheel Cruiser, and Mirror Entity (among others)
Cast vehicles and Entity
Crew Dragster with Entity
Activate Entity for X=ludicrous
Swing with Freighter, Dragster, and Cruiser for lethal on all opponents.
Sure, most of the time my Depala deck goes to turn 12-15 or so, but Boros is capable of being fast, too.
Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but Gisela, Blade of Goldnight is extremely powerful for a boros commander. She kind of functions like a control/burn deck.
Boros is also the best combination for Mass Land Destruction. Quickly develop a board and then lock everyone out. Not friendly, but it is definitely an edge Boros has. You can do some pretty dumb things with Aurelia, the Warleader as well. You don't even need a crazy board to take advantage of Aurelia coupled with something like True Conviction
What do people think about the new cards in C17 and Ixalan for Boros?
I think only Tocatli Honor Guard, Alms collector and Conqueror's Galleon (probably not) are the only barely playable ones. Torpor orb is good and Honor Guard is the third torpor orb. She is worse than the flash gryff and orb. Alms collector is not as good as Notion Thief but being able to steal a wheel puts you in a position where it is very easy to win even if you can't get the same incidental card draw. Galleon is basically a repeatable colorless Regrowth with extra modes. I think it's too expensive to really see play but still it's a strong effect.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
A General that functions as a solid hate bear / stax element would bring Boros a lot closer to being able to compete. Out of the two color combinations (together with WG perhaps) it has the strongest array of cheap interaction for key permanent types as well as the greatest range of hate/MLD effects. Without a solid General to either break parity, act as another hate/lock piece, or be an effective win condition Boros is severely hindered.
And this brings me to my second point that for the color combination that is supposedly the best in combat, it does not have any generals that are actually very good at it in a multiplayer setting. Boros lacks good general options at low cmc for both supporting the team and for voltron more than most other two color combinations. The ones that scale in multiplayer have a high cmc and aside from Aurelia lack haste which really hinders their effectiveness in a color combination with only artifact ramp to depend upon. A General with Derevi's ability and good combo stats or a 4/3 flying lifelink haste for WWR would go a long way to making the color combination more competitive for a variety of deck types.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
While it's a mixture of angels, soldiers and giants I do play alot of Legendary White and red creatures, so Heroes' PodiumLet's me just keep ripping them out of my deck if the game goes longer. My deck leans more heavily toward being white, so I can use Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx quickly generate a large amount of mana. I love getting effects like Odric, Lunarch Marshal and Concerted Effort as if you're going have creatures with awesome abilities, why not share them? Again another way of making your stuff indestructible.
I don't pull out my Boros deck and ever feel like it's gimped. It always holds it's own and wins enough to keep me happy with it's performance. Even the games I don't win someone usually finds their way out of a game from one massive giant attack hehe.
May I ask who is your general?
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Lately I've been using Iroas, God of Victory. Mostly just for board presence as he is fairly cheap. He's actually made Fight to the Death really fun to play test. I don't always run Boros but when I feel like being aggressive and putting the table on their heels a bit, Boros works well.
Aye, forcing opponents to combat regardless of their controlling scheme is a great way to even the field.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Right. I'm not really an aggro player by nature. I prefer a mid-range slow roll myself, but sometimes bumping the tempo up can be fun. I also vastly underestimated Astral Slide as a political tool but wow. Being able to trigger other peoples ETB effects and untap is a nice favor. Also, Inquisitor's Flail has been a surprisingly reliable.
Now here is a card that can help Boros against control further.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
It's much worse than notion thief, and it doesn't really give you card advantage so much as take it away from a single opponent.
It will replace itself when you catch someone with it, but then no one will cast their draw spells until it is gone. Unless you can catch a wheel with it, which is a niche case.
It won't help you against cards like phyrexian arena either.
It's very similar to spirit of the labyrinth as a hatebear.
It'll be hard to justify including it in a deck because it's so reliant on the opponent playing specific cards.
1) You have to think Boros, not Dimir. Boros main pressure via damage and make sure the board fight at equal insufficient level (Blood Moon, Stranglehold, Spirit of the Labyrinth, etc), opposite to typical blue/black/green decks where they would find answers by draw and tutor.
2) Boros doesn't lack Wheel effects, so when you say Alms Collector relies on opponent playing specific cards it's not entirely correct. It merely works "better" when opponent plays certain cards, but you can cast such spells yourself. The point is not drawing as many cards as possible like with Notion Thief, but how to make everyone draw less and equalizes the field.
3) Last I check, "No one will cast their draw spells until it is gone" is a good thing for WR decks that usually struggles at maintaining card advantage mid-late game. Hell, it's a good effect for any deck. On that function, Alms Collector is not very different from Notion Thief, plus Boros have many ways to protect their creatures.
It is true that Notion Thief is more powerful, but you have to think in the context of Boros color pie as a whole. Besides, Alms Collector is a lot stronger against opponent's Nekusar than Notion Thief would in a multiplayer game. Gotta think outside of the box.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Being able to thief wheel in Boros is actually pretty legit.
Also, no one ever casts their draw spells into a Notion Thief after he catches the first. That being said, usually one is all you need and then he has already paid for himself.
This guy needs to do a little more to feel like he paid for himself.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Too much needs to go right.
They have limited ability to tutor for a way to refill their hand, and limited cards in existence that can refill their hand in boros colors.
So even if they do get their ramp, they often won't have much to do with it, and they end up playing off the top of the deck too often.
This is much less of a problem in dimir and azorious.
Refilling your hand is a luxury you sacrifice for Boros speed and power. You don't need a handful of cards to win with Boros. Cycling will do just fine in most cases. Boros just needs to be able to dig. There are plenty of cantrip, cycling and scry effects for that.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
You've got things like Manabarbs, Vicious Shadows and War's Toll for red, and Martyr's Bond, Rule of Law, Sphere of Safety in white... You could make it so that your main win condition is something like Searing Meditation + Righteous Cause after you've locked down the board.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Boros can go control and combo route too, it isn't always combat phrase only. Brion Stoutarm + Serra Avatar
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
T1 Mountain, Mox Opal, Mox Diamond (pitch Plains), Sol Ring, Depala (commander)
T2 Plains, Basalt Monolith, Renegade Freighter
T3 Rings of Brighthearth (infinite colorless)
Tap Depala to crew Renegade Freighter, pay 100 mana for her trigger
Reveal Ovalchase Dragster, Fleetwheel Cruiser, and Mirror Entity (among others)
Cast vehicles and Entity
Crew Dragster with Entity
Activate Entity for X=ludicrous
Swing with Freighter, Dragster, and Cruiser for lethal on all opponents.
Sure, most of the time my Depala deck goes to turn 12-15 or so, but Boros is capable of being fast, too.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Consistency matters.
What do people think about the new cards in C17 and Ixalan for Boros?
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Run lots of damage based sweepers and utility cards like Pyrohemia, Aether Flash, Lightmine Field, Powerstone Minefield, you can be extra mean with Repercussion, just get a bit of ramp and card draw from artifacts and it should be a deck.
Boros is also the best combination for Mass Land Destruction. Quickly develop a board and then lock everyone out. Not friendly, but it is definitely an edge Boros has. You can do some pretty dumb things with Aurelia, the Warleader as well. You don't even need a crazy board to take advantage of Aurelia coupled with something like True Conviction
Arahbo, Kitty Kat Beatdown Decklist
Mizzix of the Izmagnus Decklist
Breya, Etherium Shaper
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Decklist
My Current Set Cube Lists:
Kamigawa Re-Experience
Ravnica, City of Guilds Re-Experience
Alara Re-Experience
I think only Tocatli Honor Guard, Alms collector and Conqueror's Galleon (probably not) are the only barely playable ones. Torpor orb is good and Honor Guard is the third torpor orb. She is worse than the flash gryff and orb. Alms collector is not as good as Notion Thief but being able to steal a wheel puts you in a position where it is very easy to win even if you can't get the same incidental card draw. Galleon is basically a repeatable colorless Regrowth with extra modes. I think it's too expensive to really see play but still it's a strong effect.