I have been brewing a Bant token/ +1/+1 counters deck so far it has been running smoothly. I was letting a friend look over my decklist and he asked me why Jenera why not some other more powerful/synergy commander that works with my theme and ideas (like Atraxa or mr spore man) and I couldn't give a good answer. I don't really like Jeneras art on the card I just wanted to make a bant deck.
My question for you guys and gals out there is had you ever had a deck idea and try to force it to work in colors you wanted to play? Did it work out? Do you still play the deck? Does the general really matter if the rest of the deck synergies with its self into an effective machine?
Well those are definitely good colors for both +1/+1 counters and tokens. Technically you cpuld cut the blue. But why would you cut blue? Maybe change to Roon of the Hidden Realm since he can allow you to abuse all the things that make tokens or counters on etb. Of note things like Geist-Honored Monk + Cathar's Crusade(I went from Vorosh to Atraxa specifically because I wanted this card). Off the top of my head the only things I can think of that you're losing out on by not going with Atraxa is Atraxa herself, Ghave, and Corpsejack Menace. Having Blue gets you Inexorable Tide as well as the juicy interaction between your choice of Clone variant and Enduring Scalelord (throw in Concordant Crossroads for all the winning) you also gain more stability (and frugality) in your mana which is certainly worth something.
Well those are definitely good colors for both +1/+1 counters and tokens. Technically you cpuld cut the blue. But why would you cut blue? Maybe change to Roon of the Hidden Realm since he can allow you to abuse all the things that make tokens or counters on etb. Of note things like Geist-Honored Monk + Cathar's Crusade(I went from Vorosh to Atraxa specifically because I wanted this card). Off the top of my head the only things I can think of that you're losing out on by not going with Atraxa is Atraxa herself, Ghave, and Corpsejack Menace. Having Blue gets you Inexorable Tide as well as the juicy interaction between your choice of Clone variant and Enduring Scalelord (throw in Concordant Crossroads for all the winning) you also gain more stability (and frugality) in your mana which is certainly worth something.
Its not about cutting the blue but why not use a General with more power like Roon or Derevi something over all more powerful. I want to keep it three colors as you said its a lot easier on the mana base and there are just to many Atraxa decks running around in the area.
Ghave just seems like a combo machines and he just builds into a crazy powerful deck. Its more a question of why Jenera I do like that shes a three mana 3/3 and she fly's but other than one or two cards in the deck she really is interchangeable with any other bant commander. I can't really think of why I picked her and now I am finding to hard to justify keeping her as a commander.
For myself, I have a Jenara deck. I love her as a commander. With some shroud and/or totem armor, she can be biatch, too. At 3 mana she just keeps coming out all game. All personal preference, though I use her with angels, not a counter/token setup.
The thing Jenara provides that the others don't is commander damage kills. But even there I think she's probably outdone by Rafiq of the Many. But for the given theme, like I said Roon is probably the best. Derevi had her benefits in utility
For myself, I have a Jenara deck. I love her as a commander. With some shroud and/or totem armor, she can be biatch, too. At 3 mana she just keeps coming out all game. All personal preference, though I use her with angels, not a counter/token setup.
Do you have a list for your deck I would like to see it would be a very different way to build her than I was thinking. Your right on the fact that she's cheap as is a great beater and I think that's what drew me to her in the first place she's cheap and she gives you a mans sink in the late game to where she can just one shot thinks with enough mana
The thing Jenara provides that the others don't is commander damage kills. But even there I think she's probably outdone by Rafiq of the Many. But for the given theme, like I said Roon is probably the best. Derevi had her benefits in utility
.
Rafiq is powerful for sure but I feel like he raises the red scary flag of you have to look out he can one shot you. Derevi can go nuts with all the tokens hitting people and all the taps and untaps for sure even lets you abuse some good tap to make token creatures. Roon is still a possibility but maybe I stick with Jenera and the rattle snake. Don't know what kinda deck it is until it gets going
Yep, it's linked in my sig below. It's a fun deck with angels, humans, and gods, so don't expect turn 4 tapouts. It's not meant to play in competitive metas, but I do have some fun cards in both initial and revised lists to peruse.
I like Jenara because she's so flexible. You don't need to make it any single kind of deck. It can be a force +1/+1 counter deck. It can be a control deck. It can be a voltron deck. She's a jack of all trades commmander.
That said, other commanders probably will cater to select strategies better. Rafiq is godly with voltron.
I played Jenara for years. The thing I realized with Jenara though is she needs like zero support to be good. Your deck doesnt need to have any synergy with her to make Jenara good on her own. That is part of what I loved about her so when I built her I built her in a way that the deck did its own thing and she did her own thing as well.
The hard thing about +/+ counters in my experience as a build is that its a strategy that always takes time to spin up and it falls flat kind of hard to sweepers. I think Jenara is actually a very good commander as she has great stats and abilities for her mana but I also dont think you should bother trying to make her "better" with your build. Throw in Sword of Feast and Famine and perhaps a few Time Warps and thats really as much synergy as she will ever need anyways.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
My Jenara list is strongly based off what ISB used to run, though it is up to date in terms of cards. It is pretty efficient and tight in terms of card slots, so I don't swap things out too often other than for strictly better cards that happen to get printed or just generally amazing additions. I've always enjoyed her as a general and felt like the deck did relevant things at all phases of the game.
I do also run Atraxa with +1/+1 counters and she gets derailed in my meta rather often since I built her a little more casually and with a less efficient theme. Jenara just feels a bit generic for a +1/+1 counter deck and I find it to be a harder list to run anyway without access to the persist combos that you get with Dark Bant.
I played Jenara for years. The thing I realized with Jenara though is she needs like zero support to be good. Your deck doesnt need to have any synergy with her to make Jenara good on her own. That is part of what I loved about her so when I built her I built her in a way that the deck did its own thing and she did her own thing as well.
The hard thing about +/+ counters in my experience as a build is that its a strategy that always takes time to spin up and it falls flat kind of hard to sweepers. I think Jenara is actually a very good commander as she has great stats and abilities for her mana but I also dont think you should bother trying to make her "better" with your build. Throw in Sword of Feast and Famine and perhaps a few Time Warps and thats really as much synergy as she will ever need anyways.
This is the point I think I was missing right here. Jenara is good on her own and I can make what ever kind of deck and she will be just fine on her own. I did some proxy testing on what you said and yes with the +1/+1 counters and tokens any boardwipes sent me back to the stone age every time just dead in the water. I looked thru your list and Zens list as well and I think I have a lot better idea of where to move to next.
@Boros_Blendo I looked your list over and I do dig the theme might be worth trying and angel tribe version
@JohnnyDegenerate I will have to pass on a voltron build I already have one deck is based that way and while she would be super good as one I dont want to double up on deck themes.
@RivenVII I do feel that using her for a +1/+1 them is week with her and I might just try more ETB focused deck with her
Well, bluntly put, while Jenara doesn't need support, she does suffer from the "Jack of all trades, Master of None" problem. The closest thing she could be a master of is Voltron, but (besides the fact you passed on it) Rafiq outclasses her in that department way too well that Jenara simply has no niche.
So yeah, she ultimately just falls into generic Commander used for colors, but that doesn't mean you can't take advantage of her strongest trait - she can "Voltron" with simply a lot of mana and hence doesn't need a specific plan for that, which makes it a very good back-up plan. This means whatever your plan is, it better involve a lot of mana and the ability to store it, which Bant happens to be very good at.
Mana generation (as well as sustaining and protecting it) should be your focus - you'll use it to fuel your primary game plan, but in the case it doesn't work out, Jenara can use all that mana as as back-up plan.
Like ISB said, Jenara doesn't need any help, and truly plays to the strengths of Bant. You don't need many support cards, but a few are totally worth playing, like Seedborn Muse, Sword of Feast and Famine, and Hardened Scales/Training Grounds. You can play out a more controlling deck and then out of nowhere cast Jenara in the late game + Timewarp and one shot someone. You also shouldn't really care if Jenara dies because she is easy to recast and you should be ramping a decent bit throughout the game.
I would say stay with Jenara if you are comfortable, but wouldn't blame you for switching if you get bored of 'generic bant goodstuff' decks.
Just posting in case you are still considering Roon. I have a primer, link in signature below, where you should be able to find some useful information in order to make your decision.
@Yatsufusa and @krichaiushii you guys really hit it on the head there. She builds into a whatever kind of deck and that keeps people from gunning for me out the gate cause there is no clear oh your playing this then your on this idea.
@akroma44 I think I will try a kinda of good stuff deck for a while as I don't really have one and it will be fun to mess around and see what the deck turns into.
@Outcryqq oh I have looked over your primer quite a few times and it really really makes me want to play with Roon really bad.
I wanna thank everyone that stopped in and gave their input in this. I am gonna try a sorta good stuff deck with Jenera for a bit and see how it turns out.
Atraxa is a good pick as you can run tutors to help get your peices. Black is by far tbe best tutor color kn the game. Beseesh the queen, diabolic tutor, demonic tutor and vampiric tutor. I rin all 4 in any deck i play that runs black.
My question for you guys and gals out there is had you ever had a deck idea and try to force it to work in colors you wanted to play? Did it work out? Do you still play the deck? Does the general really matter if the rest of the deck synergies with its self into an effective machine?
Its not about cutting the blue but why not use a General with more power like Roon or Derevi something over all more powerful. I want to keep it three colors as you said its a lot easier on the mana base and there are just to many Atraxa decks running around in the area.
Ghave just seems like a combo machines and he just builds into a crazy powerful deck. Its more a question of why Jenera I do like that shes a three mana 3/3 and she fly's but other than one or two cards in the deck she really is interchangeable with any other bant commander. I can't really think of why I picked her and now I am finding to hard to justify keeping her as a commander.
Do you have a list for your deck I would like to see it would be a very different way to build her than I was thinking. Your right on the fact that she's cheap as is a great beater and I think that's what drew me to her in the first place she's cheap and she gives you a mans sink in the late game to where she can just one shot thinks with enough mana
Rafiq is powerful for sure but I feel like he raises the red scary flag of you have to look out he can one shot you. Derevi can go nuts with all the tokens hitting people and all the taps and untaps for sure even lets you abuse some good tap to make token creatures. Roon is still a possibility but maybe I stick with Jenera and the rattle snake. Don't know what kinda deck it is until it gets going
That said, other commanders probably will cater to select strategies better. Rafiq is godly with voltron.
The hard thing about +/+ counters in my experience as a build is that its a strategy that always takes time to spin up and it falls flat kind of hard to sweepers. I think Jenara is actually a very good commander as she has great stats and abilities for her mana but I also dont think you should bother trying to make her "better" with your build. Throw in Sword of Feast and Famine and perhaps a few Time Warps and thats really as much synergy as she will ever need anyways.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I do also run Atraxa with +1/+1 counters and she gets derailed in my meta rather often since I built her a little more casually and with a less efficient theme. Jenara just feels a bit generic for a +1/+1 counter deck and I find it to be a harder list to run anyway without access to the persist combos that you get with Dark Bant.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
This is the point I think I was missing right here. Jenara is good on her own and I can make what ever kind of deck and she will be just fine on her own. I did some proxy testing on what you said and yes with the +1/+1 counters and tokens any boardwipes sent me back to the stone age every time just dead in the water. I looked thru your list and Zens list as well and I think I have a lot better idea of where to move to next.
@JohnnyDegenerate I will have to pass on a voltron build I already have one deck is based that way and while she would be super good as one I dont want to double up on deck themes.
@RivenVII I do feel that using her for a +1/+1 them is week with her and I might just try more ETB focused deck with her
So yeah, she ultimately just falls into generic Commander used for colors, but that doesn't mean you can't take advantage of her strongest trait - she can "Voltron" with simply a lot of mana and hence doesn't need a specific plan for that, which makes it a very good back-up plan. This means whatever your plan is, it better involve a lot of mana and the ability to store it, which Bant happens to be very good at.
Mana generation (as well as sustaining and protecting it) should be your focus - you'll use it to fuel your primary game plan, but in the case it doesn't work out, Jenara can use all that mana as as back-up plan.
Why Jenara over Rafiq or Derevi? People don't automatically target you based on commander reputation.
I can't speak for Roon.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
I would say stay with Jenara if you are comfortable, but wouldn't blame you for switching if you get bored of 'generic bant goodstuff' decks.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebears@akroma44 I think I will try a kinda of good stuff deck for a while as I don't really have one and it will be fun to mess around and see what the deck turns into.
@Outcryqq oh I have looked over your primer quite a few times and it really really makes me want to play with Roon really bad.
I wanna thank everyone that stopped in and gave their input in this. I am gonna try a sorta good stuff deck with Jenera for a bit and see how it turns out.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist