MTG Salvation

Quick intro: I play with a small group of four people, including myself. Our meta is entirely our own. We don't play outside our group. We have very limited card pools that basically don't go back past Innistrad with some minor exceptions.

The Situation: Two of the guys in my group opened the new gods at the prerelease, and I expect to be playing against them next weekend when we get together. Specifically, I plan on facing The Scarab God and The Locust God (not really sure who the other guy will bring).

The Request: I'm curious about what general strategy you would use if you had to play against both of those gods at once. By general, I mean things like "I would run more exile effects so that they have to pay commander taxes". I don't mind card-specific recommendations, but there's a good chance I won't have the card you recommend (the rules of our group dictate that we can't go buy something we don't open, so if don't have it, i probably will never have it).

I realize this is an unusual request for these boards where people are used to making card-specific recommendations. By all means, I'm open to very specific suggestions. If I see a trend in the types of cards being recommended, I will see if I can find cards similar in purpose in my card pool. Overall, I am hoping to walk away from this discussion with more focus.

Exile is definitely a good start. It's not too much different then when the Theros gods came out and many people had to adapt to decks like Purphoros. In my group things like Return to Dust became far more playable.

I'd also suggest just turning them off, although this is more difficult because they have both triggers and activated abilities (so you can't just Cursed Totem for instance). Imprisoned in the Moon, Song of the Dryads, Humility.

With Solemnity and Vizier of Remedies the Scorpion can be pretty easily turned off. The Locust God less so but things like Illness in the Ranks and Curse of Death's Hold. You could also use Notion Thief to stop his draw shenanigans.

Unlike the Theros gods, the Amonkhet gods are always creatures. Damage/destroy effects don't work, but they don't work on other indestructible creatures either. -X/-X, lots of -1/-1 counters, creature bounce, creature exile, creature theft... they all work, all the time, whereas doing the same thing to Theros gods required waiting for your opponent to hit sufficient devotion, which almost never happens for some decks.

It's the same problem posed by someone running Sliver Hivelord, Sapling of Colfenor, Tajic, Blade of the Legion, Avacyn, Angel of Hope, or either Ulamog as their commander (and a few others like Yahenni, Undying Partisan who almost-always have indestructible). AKH/HOD have introduced 8 more commanders in the category, but it's a category that has existed for a long time.

Against the new gods the issue isnt killing them but against normal removal they just come back again next turn. Exile or the aforementioned Song of the Dryads type effects will be the best bet because none of them are particularly cheap to play and the tax will add up. You could try running more yard hate to make sure they go back to the command zone after killing them. Of the three The Scarab God I think is the most troublesome because of its obvious gross ability.

White and blue both have ways to take control of creatures, and Gods are not immune to brain washing (unless he also has a sac outlet). Countering them is another way to handle them, and the aforementioned exiling effects. Green and white both have various of enchantments rendering permanents unusuable/uncastable, like Song of the Dryads, Faith's Fetters, and Nevermore.

Quote from cyberium_neo »

White and blue both have ways to take control of creatures, and Gods are not immune to brain washing (unless he also has a sac outlet). Countering them is another way to handle them, and the aforementioned exiling effects. Green and white both have various of enchantments rendering permanents unusuable/uncastable, like Song of the Dryads, Faith's Fetters, and Nevermore.

Darksteel Mutation

Quote from Gutterstorm »

With Solemnity and Vizier of Remedies the Scorpion can be pretty easily turned off. The Locust God less so but things like Illness in the Ranks and Curse of Death's Hold. You could also use Notion Thief to stop his draw shenanigans.

I like the idea of turning card draw against the Locust God player. I hadn't considered that. Not sure I have many good options there, unfortunately. I normally keep Sword of War and Peace in my deck. That's the closest I have to a draw/hand size punisher.

I also like the idea of permanently undermining the tokens, but all I have in that arena is a Dampening Pulse. Consolation prize: The player with Locust God normally runs Queen Marchesa. If I'm in blue, I should probably be giving more consideration to Dampening Pulse anyway. I hadn't considered that before, so definitely a big thank you for suggesting something along those lines.

Quote from un_diplomatic »

Against the new gods the issue isnt killing them but against normal removal they just come back again next turn. Exile or the aforementioned Song of the Dryads type effects will be the best bet because none of them are particularly cheap to play and the tax will add up. You could try running more yard hate to make sure they go back to the command zone after killing them. Of the three The Scarab God I think is the most troublesome because of its obvious gross ability.

Yeah, The Scarab God is the one that worries me the most.

At the moment, I'm thinking of going with Archangel Avacyn for my commander and running a ton of Boros destruction and exile. I have Descend Upon the Sinful and False Prophet for mass exile, some spot exile, traditional board wipe stuff - and then I'm thinking of stuffing the deck with token-generating, non-creature spells. I don't really have the ability to keep everyone's graveyard off limits, but I can make Scarab's life harder by running as few creatures as possible. The problem I have there is with a real win condition. I'm thinking of Anointed Procession and some sort of damage multiplier to alpha strike and take a person out. I could also go with Approach of the Second Sun. Is that even viable in EDH, or does it just draw a huge, multi-player bulls-eye on you?

Two of my mates and I built up one of the gids each and played them against each other. I had The Scarab God. The best way to beat it is GY exile. Scarab get's so much value out of the GY that you need to get rid of it. Also mana doublers. Get rid of them ASAP. Don't give Scarab a chance to untap with them.

When I built the deck, I thought of three major possible strategies: mill to abuse the GY, zombies to abust the damage/scry, or clones to use their decks against them. That may help with how to beat him.

Darksteel Mutation for Ayli

Imprisoned in the Moon for Rashmi

As for removal. anything that exiles the god is good. If they die normally they are returned to hand and therefore immune to commander tax so exile them back to the command zone.

I mean, rest in peace, leyline of the void, faerie macabre, relic of progenitus, necrogenesis, night soil, nihil spellbomb, underworld cerberus...
Undead Alchemist hates Entomb, dredge, etc, but not discard.

The scary thing isn't the fact that the god is easy to recur. It's a vanilla body that can easily be blocked. Commanders are already easy to recur. The scary part is the reanimation, and a deck throwing fatties in the yard to be reanimated will also be playing reanimate, animate dead, etc. I don't think you can stop their deck by just hating on the commander.

Sure, pithing needle, song of the dryads, etc will be great, but have some graveyard hate too!

Exile, tuck, and things like Song of the Dryads and Arrest. You can even kill them and then use Bojuka Bog, Nihil Spellbomb, Tormod's Crypt, Leyline of the Void, and the like to keep them dead.

Another thing you can do is find cards that hate out the Commander. Slifer got you down? Just use Underworld Dreams, Megrim, and Suture Priest to turn a good thing into a bad thing. (You can actually make a Nekusar deck to take him down.) Or just run Night of Souls' Betrayal or Spirit of the Labyrinth. Obelisk is your problem? Solemnity and Melira, Sylvok Outcast can help, but Melira won't solve all your problems. Ra is a problem? May I suggest Leyline of the Void, Aether Snap, Extinction, Angel of Glory's Rise, and Elephant Grass; Light of Day is another option, but very specific.

Quote from Gutterstorm »

Quote from cyberium_neo »

White and blue both have ways to take control of creatures, and Gods are not immune to brain washing (unless he also has a sac outlet). Countering them is another way to handle them, and the aforementioned exiling effects. Green and white both have various of enchantments rendering permanents unusuable/uncastable, like Song of the Dryads, Faith's Fetters, and Nevermore.

Darksteel Mutation

Bolas should've eternalize the zombies in Darksteel. :3

I would honestly be more worried about The Locust God. A deck with him will be able to kill out of nowhere with very little resource investment, and be able to control the game up to that point. And it seems to me that a lot of EDH decks already try to gain value from the graveyard. So an ordinary deck should be able to interact with The Scarab God without too many tweaks.

What both of the decks have in common it seems like are creature swarms. So playing things like Propaganda, Crawlspace, etc, would be good. They are also not bad generally in the common stompy, creature-based metas.

Quote from Jusstice »

I would honestly be more worried about The Locust God. A deck with him will be able to kill out of nowhere with very little resource investment, and be able to control the game up to that point. And it seems to me that a lot of EDH decks already try to gain value from the graveyard. So an ordinary deck should be able to interact with The Scarab God without too many tweaks.

What both of the decks have in common it seems like are creature swarms. So playing things like Propaganda, Crawlspace, etc, would be good. They are also not bad generally in the common stompy, creature-based metas.

True, there are many combos associated with Locust combat is merely one way it beats down opponents. With a sac outlet and Vicious Shadow it by passes most pillow fort with direct damage. Kill on sight is rough given Locust can just return to hand after death. Good thing most people would target it immediately it comes out, in 1v1 some exiles would be required.

Quote from cyberium_neo »

White and blue both have ways to take control of creatures, and Gods are not immune to brain washing (unless he also has a sac outlet). Countering them is another way to handle them, and the aforementioned exiling effects. Green and white both have various of enchantments rendering permanents unusuable/uncastable, like Song of the Dryads, Faith's Fetters, and Nevermore.

Null Chamber could work if you have a willing player. Also, grave hate should make them pay the commander tax at least.

Just kill it over and over again. In an Ayli deck, a token should cost you a lot less than a God, but Grave Pact and Butcher of Malakir don't see things that way. (Not to mention Martyr's Bond, Dictate of Erebos, etc)

You could also play thingd like Gideon's Intervention or Pithing Needle to prevent them from being played or used at all.

Sorry on phone so no tags

Quote from Ertai Planeswalker »

You could also play thingd like Gideon's Intervention or Pithing Needle to prevent them from being played or used at all.

Sorry on phone so no tags

Gideon's Intervention is probably something I can get by trade. Thanks for the idea.

Just to remind you guys

the scorpion god is to not be taken lightly.

And I'm not seeing much safety net talk of him.

solemnity is the only one I seen mentioned so far.

Quote from Ryperior74 »

Just to remind you guys

the scorpion god is to not be taken lightly.

And I'm not seeing much safety net talk of him.

solemnity is the only one I seen mentioned so far.

Vizier of Remediesworks well too. You can also use +1/+1 counters to negate the -1/-1 counters. Mass stuff like Cathar's Crusade.

Quote from Gutterstorm »

Quote from Ryperior74 »

Just to remind you guys

the scorpion god is to not be taken lightly.

And I'm not seeing much safety net talk of him.

solemnity is the only one I seen mentioned so far.

Vizier of Remediesworks well too. You can also use +1/+1 counters to negate the -1/-1 counters. Mass stuff like [c[Cathar's Crusade[/c].

On top of the usual Humility, Linvala, Keeper of Silence and Cursed Totem shut down the -1/-1 counter parade. Melira, Sylvok Outcast is also an option.

Discard and cards like Praetor's Grasp, perhaps?

Cheers!

So some generics and then some specifics.

GENERAL:

• Theft is a good way to deal with sticky legends / gods. It generally forces your opponents to use answers on their own commanders which is kind of a 2 for 1 for you.
• Grave hate will help against all gods because they are in the grave temporarily. Things like Rest in Peace, Scavenging Ooze, Withered Wretch, Crook of Condemnation all work fairly well in that they globally stop or can target remove graveyards.
• Wraths - it might sound odd but most of the new gods take a bit to get set up. The Scarab God will be a little faster at rebuilding but any of the tokens you kill will be gone given its an exile to make the tokens.

The Scarab God

• Graveyard hate is honestly going to be one of the biggest things here. If you have graveyard hate, the rest of what this god does is mostly manageable.
• Running creature light strategies is also potentially a thing here since this god rezes from all graves. Avoid a self mill / reanimator strategies if possible against this one if you can help it.

The Locust God

• Anti token strategies should be good here. Magus of the Tabernacle, Propaganda, Pestilence, Silklash Spider, etc. Pillow fort as well as anti token strategies will make life harder for this player.
• Wraths will be your friend. This deck actually takes a few turns between casting its commander and then trying to make tokens to really hit some sort of critical mass. Wraths will set it back a lot between a 6 mana commander and then needing to

Just wanted to say that all of this input has been very helpful. I've come full circle and gone back to the Ayli shell that has been so powerful for me. I made some modifications to bring in more exiling stuff - even made a trade to get my hands on an Anguished Unmaking. Looking forward to a fun weekend.