My playgroup has recently been feeling jaded by group hug, so I decided to repurpose/reinvent Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis into something other than group hug. Technically, the list I had before wasn't hard core on the hug effects so much as pillow fort or fog/damage prevention effects to get me to late game to finish it off, but there were definitely a handful of hug cards littered throughout. I actually really liked the deck because it wasn't so heavy on the hugs and actually had multiple ways to win.win conditions that utilized all of K&T's colors: Psychosis Crawler (maybe targeted with a Rite of Replication) + some blue big draw spell, a huge Collective Voyage + Treacherous Terrain, classic Insurrection possibly after a huge Tempt with Vengeance (pro tip: never take the tempting offer), or a Reverse the Sands into a damage spell or another combination above, among other tricks. Basically, it was a group hug deck with that actually still played to win. Unfortunately, I too have been recently feeling a bit jaded by it because it has this way of really extending and prolonging games longer than they have to be - games getting quite stall-y - and that gets draining no matter whether I win or lose because I'm more about the fun social interaction of it all. My playgroup isn't really competitive.
I really love the flavor of K&T and the access to those 4 colors, so I'm hoping I can find a fun and interesting/original theme to go with, but I need some help coming up with ideas! So far I've thought of:
-Human or Soldier tribal. Unfortunately, most of the strong human and Soldier synergies are in W or WG despite me hearing all the time that R is the most "human" color, so I feel I wouldn't be taking full advantage of K&T's color access here, and that was one of my favorite things about the previous build - drawing good strengths from all the available colors. Are there some good R and U humans/soldiers I can add to balance out a mix of creatures if I went tribal?
-"Tribal" of big beater creatures with good evasion (indestructible, deathtouch, flying, menace, intimidate, etc.). Things like Rhonas the Indomitable (which can just use the activated ability on K&T to be able to fight). Just hard to remove and/or hard to block creatures.
-Landfall seems kind of predictable with this commander, so I'm looking for more unique.
-I thought tokens as well, since I thought it would be cool to combine cards creating token creatures of all the different colors, but I already have 2 other token decks build that I play regularly with, so that would seem kind of stale.
Other than that, I haven't really come up with anything. I saw the activated ability "tribal" list on these forums, but that looks like it would give me a headache keeping track of all the mana for which activated abilities I want available, etc.
I would really appreciate any suggestions for me to explore. Thanks!
I call it Judo Guardians, after the card Guardians of Meletis and the Judo-style play this deck has. It is very spell-heavy, and relies on your opponents using creatures, lands, spells, etc. to put pressure on you... and you take their momentum and redirect it right back at them. Given its lack of permanents and the commander, it's very easy to fly under the radar until your moment to strike. A well-timed Mirror Strike can give other players the impression that attacking you is a risky proposition, but even if they do fun things almost certainly ensue. The deck is a blast to play and play against. Some opponents call it the comeuppance.dec.
My philosophy for the deck is to lack any win condition unless that card is completely dependent on your opponents attempt to win the game. The result is a deck that I've won MOST games with, usually with surprising flair. There's a card in here that punishes all types of decks you could come up against, except for super friends (still working on that one weakness...). Also, the deck uses some "huggy" cards as a means to accelerate the game and allow opponents to pull off some crazy things. The deck WANTS your opponents to get out of control... so you can smack them down with the backhand of justice.
Initially, the deck was helmed by Ruhan of the Fomori and it's biggest weakness was mana acceleration and keeping a full grip of cards readily available to respond to opponents. When K&T was spoiled it was the PERFECT card that helped both of the deck's weaknesses AND added a fourth color. It's currently my favorite deck to play, as it's tuned to 75% and will only be as strong as the decks you're playing against.
The decklist I've posted has shifted a bit in the last few months, primarily to bring the mana curve down, but take a look at it and see what you think. The main cards are still there. It's very fun to play cards that most EDH players DO NOT see coming, or even know what they do until they read them.
EDIT: some of the new cards I've added are Berserk and Tempt with Discovery. Have fun with the crazy plays, and best of luck with the deck.
Thanks for the suggestion, Macabre. I don't think MLD is right for me or for my playgroup though. My playgroup isn't competitive, and although no one will deny another member from building what he or she wants to build, there are definitely some decks and deck strategies, like infect, that are "frowned" upon in the sense that if you played it often you would effectively be shunned from the group. We get it, you took the time and effort (and in some cases money) to build this thing that you obviously want to play with, so we will not deny that. If it's really spikey though, and consistently denies other decks from actually playing any Magic, then we will let you know to play it only once every great while. I feel like MLD would be in this category for us, and I'd like to play the decks I build a little more frequently without the stigma of oppression.
Voltron on the other hand seems really interesting. I actually don't have a voltron deck and K&T's butt is already so big. I wouldn't be building it with the Swords of X+Y (as I don't own any of them, they're a little pricey to drop for), but some other cards to give K&T protection and start beefing them up, keeping some pillow-fort pieces . . . hm that does sound interesting. A little more difficult since they don't naturally come with evasion or protection, but challenging and unique, which I like.
I made this activated ability tribal (link in sig) deck K&T at the helm which focuses controlling the game with creatures that have various tap abilities.
I am also running a Judo K&T deck. The only "group hug" card in the deck is the commander, but let's face it, allowing everyone at the table to draw every turn is going to make things escalate quickly. People will hit their land drops, find more ramp, etc. You might as well use their resources to your advantage. I've also got some landfall stuff thrown in cause of course, you get to play an extra land each turn.
daugarten and Krimsonmask, I haven't look at that deckstats list yet, but it sounds like a sub-theme I already had going. I used cards like Comeuppance, Repel the Abominable, and Deflecting Palm (could be a game-ender itself) to repel assaults early or hold off that last player a while until I put together a win attempt. I could take out the group hug cards and replace them with other fog/combat turn-around type tricks, possibly keeping most of my win cons together. I will definitely take a look at that list and see. Thanks for the suggestion!
daugarten and Krimsonmask, I haven't look at that deckstats list yet, but it sounds like a sub-theme I already had going. I used cards like Comeuppance, Repel the Abominable, and Deflecting Palm (could be a game-ender itself) to repel assaults early or hold off that last player a while until I put together a win attempt. I could take out the group hug cards and replace them with other fog/combat turn-around type tricks, possibly keeping most of my win cons together. I will definitely take a look at that list and see. Thanks for the suggestion!
You're welcome! I might add that playing fog cards are often not worth it unless they come with some other benefit you can take advantage of (such as Blunt the Assault, which I run). I've just updated the list for good with all the current cards I'm playing in it, so have a look and I hope you find some inspiration. Many of the card choices are not ideal and that's because of the theme I've forced on myself to let the opponents be the cause of their own demise (so I went with something like Fact or Fiction instead of a better blue card draw spell, for example). Other cards I run because it's hard to play without them (obligatory Cyclonic Rift and Solemn Simulacrum). Somehow... this deck doesn't even play Sol Ring... ?!!?
Take note of the Comeuppance-like cards that you may not have started running yet: Mirror Strike, Reflect Damage, and Boros Fury-Shield. They usually get a good roaring laugh from the table. Cards like Berserk do double-duty when you cast it on an opposing creature that's attacking an opposing player
I made mine into a Theros themed Warrior/Soldier deck with Auras, Heroic triggers, and heavy on the enchantments. Their effect is the only group hug effect in the deck, and just helps the pace of the game along. I mostly used the Red for access to Keranos and Purphoros as I tutor enchantments and Legends a lot. Helps when you use the W to make a lot of Tokens for Purphoros. Besides, lots of Akros synergy for theme with Heroic.
Wall of Beefcake: the art of pillowforting so I can get away with constantly pestering everyone.
Wall "tribal", meaning enough of the good defenders (Wall of Frost, Wall of Denial, Aether Membrane etc.), together with K&T themselves saves me a from a LOT of random attackers and gives the deck time, which it definitely needs.
Similarly, the deck plays a ton of card filtering (think cards with scry 3 or bigger) in addition to K&T's ability to get to my things, and a heftier-than-usual amount of (cantripping) removal & counters. Cantrips because the deck can pretty much shoulder the extra manacost so I keep having full grip of options...
Silly idea? You bet. Janky and casual creation? Yah. Loses a fair bit of games when despite all the filtering I don't get crucial cards when I need 'em? You bet. Fun though? Abso-fricken'-lutely.
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():
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
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I really love the flavor of K&T and the access to those 4 colors, so I'm hoping I can find a fun and interesting/original theme to go with, but I need some help coming up with ideas! So far I've thought of:
-Human or Soldier tribal. Unfortunately, most of the strong human and Soldier synergies are in W or WG despite me hearing all the time that R is the most "human" color, so I feel I wouldn't be taking full advantage of K&T's color access here, and that was one of my favorite things about the previous build - drawing good strengths from all the available colors. Are there some good R and U humans/soldiers I can add to balance out a mix of creatures if I went tribal?
-"Tribal" of big beater creatures with good evasion (indestructible, deathtouch, flying, menace, intimidate, etc.). Things like Rhonas the Indomitable (which can just use the activated ability on K&T to be able to fight). Just hard to remove and/or hard to block creatures.
-Landfall seems kind of predictable with this commander, so I'm looking for more unique.
-I thought tokens as well, since I thought it would be cool to combine cards creating token creatures of all the different colors, but I already have 2 other token decks build that I play regularly with, so that would seem kind of stale.
Other than that, I haven't really come up with anything. I saw the activated ability "tribal" list on these forums, but that looks like it would give me a headache keeping track of all the mana for which activated abilities I want available, etc.
I would really appreciate any suggestions for me to explore. Thanks!
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
Seems friendly, right? Totally group hug. The guys just want to hug you with a sword.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
I call it Judo Guardians, after the card Guardians of Meletis and the Judo-style play this deck has. It is very spell-heavy, and relies on your opponents using creatures, lands, spells, etc. to put pressure on you... and you take their momentum and redirect it right back at them. Given its lack of permanents and the commander, it's very easy to fly under the radar until your moment to strike. A well-timed Mirror Strike can give other players the impression that attacking you is a risky proposition, but even if they do fun things almost certainly ensue. The deck is a blast to play and play against. Some opponents call it the comeuppance.dec.
My philosophy for the deck is to lack any win condition unless that card is completely dependent on your opponents attempt to win the game. The result is a deck that I've won MOST games with, usually with surprising flair. There's a card in here that punishes all types of decks you could come up against, except for super friends (still working on that one weakness...). Also, the deck uses some "huggy" cards as a means to accelerate the game and allow opponents to pull off some crazy things. The deck WANTS your opponents to get out of control... so you can smack them down with the backhand of justice.
Initially, the deck was helmed by Ruhan of the Fomori and it's biggest weakness was mana acceleration and keeping a full grip of cards readily available to respond to opponents. When K&T was spoiled it was the PERFECT card that helped both of the deck's weaknesses AND added a fourth color. It's currently my favorite deck to play, as it's tuned to 75% and will only be as strong as the decks you're playing against.
The decklist I've posted has shifted a bit in the last few months, primarily to bring the mana curve down, but take a look at it and see what you think. The main cards are still there. It's very fun to play cards that most EDH players DO NOT see coming, or even know what they do until they read them.
EDIT: some of the new cards I've added are Berserk and Tempt with Discovery. Have fun with the crazy plays, and best of luck with the deck.
Voltron on the other hand seems really interesting. I actually don't have a voltron deck and K&T's butt is already so big. I wouldn't be building it with the Swords of X+Y (as I don't own any of them, they're a little pricey to drop for), but some other cards to give K&T protection and start beefing them up, keeping some pillow-fort pieces . . . hm that does sound interesting. A little more difficult since they don't naturally come with evasion or protection, but challenging and unique, which I like.
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
Some of the Judo cards:
Blatant Thievery
Reins of Power
Sage of Ancient Lore
Kraum, Ludevic's Opus
Molten Primordial
Insidious Will
Reverberate
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
Desertion
Diluvian Primordial
Carpet of Flowers
Recurring Insight
Burgeoning
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
You're welcome! I might add that playing fog cards are often not worth it unless they come with some other benefit you can take advantage of (such as Blunt the Assault, which I run). I've just updated the list for good with all the current cards I'm playing in it, so have a look and I hope you find some inspiration. Many of the card choices are not ideal and that's because of the theme I've forced on myself to let the opponents be the cause of their own demise (so I went with something like Fact or Fiction instead of a better blue card draw spell, for example). Other cards I run because it's hard to play without them (obligatory Cyclonic Rift and Solemn Simulacrum). Somehow... this deck doesn't even play Sol Ring... ?!!?
Take note of the Comeuppance-like cards that you may not have started running yet: Mirror Strike, Reflect Damage, and Boros Fury-Shield. They usually get a good roaring laugh from the table. Cards like Berserk do double-duty when you cast it on an opposing creature that's attacking an opposing player
Against Voltron:
- Deflecting Palm and its ilk
- Arcane Lighthouse
- Armory Automaton (I cut it for my meta, but you might get some use out of it)
Against Tokens:
- Incite Rebellion
- Fumigate
- Blunt the Assault
Against Combo:
- Comeuppance
- Reflect Damage
- Plagiarize
- Parallectric Feedback
- Gather Specimens (Again, I cut it, but you might play it)
Against Mono-Blue:
- Boseiju, Who Shelters All (This is it, really, gotta play politics to turn the table against the blue player :P)
- Sudden Impact
Against Ramp:
- Treacherous Terrain
- Acidic Soil
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Wall "tribal", meaning enough of the good defenders (Wall of Frost, Wall of Denial, Aether Membrane etc.), together with K&T themselves saves me a from a LOT of random attackers and gives the deck time, which it definitely needs.
Similarly, the deck plays a ton of card filtering (think cards with scry 3 or bigger) in addition to K&T's ability to get to my things, and a heftier-than-usual amount of (cantripping) removal & counters. Cantrips because the deck can pretty much shoulder the extra manacost so I keep having full grip of options...
...because my methods of winning are gloriously ineffective on paper but(might) win in the longer run: Vent Sentinel, Lobber Crew, Thermo-Alchemist, Keranos, God of Storms, Fevered Visions, Hazoret the Fervent, Impact Tremors, Nettle Drone etc. I run a few other ways to finish people off like Treacherous Terrain and Assault Formation, and also run the Vow cycle since it actually fits fairly well into this janky piece of work. But for the most part, people are going to die based on a silly amount of stuff that ping them for 1 damage once or twice a turn.
Silly idea? You bet. Janky and casual creation? Yah. Loses a fair bit of games when despite all the filtering I don't get crucial cards when I need 'em? You bet. Fun though? Abso-fricken'-lutely.
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Arkham, the 1920's. Investigators battle horrors from beyond time and space, risking life and sanity while conspiracies of cultists and malign servitors seek gateways for their outer gods to return...
Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!