Whenever a creature with -1/-1 counter on it dies, draw a card. 1BR: Put a -1/-1 counter on another target creature.
When the Scorpion God dies, return it to its owner's hand at the beginning of the next end step.
--------------------
Obvious synergy with -1/-1 related cards like Wither, Infect, and Undying, and allow killing your own creatures (including the God himself) net you cards. The deck can be played like Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons, but the addition of red allow cards like Everlasting Torment to be used, makes all direct damage distribute -1/-1 counters.
Flayer of the Hatebound Combo with Everlasting Torment for infinite draw by damaging itself when it enters play from graveyard. EDIT: Apparently the loop will not happen, at best one can draw two cards out of this combo. However, The Scorpion God can still add a -1/-1 counter on the Hatehound to remove the +1/+1 first to allow it to "Undying" again.
Let's brew!
EDIT: Here is a collective list of suggestions and research.
Currently I see The Scorpion God can go a few directions:
1) Creatures - Allow sacrificing your own creatures for cards and additional board influence.
2) Enchantment - Like Mogis, God of Slaughter, emphasize on control, and if going creatureless, can use cards like Repercussion as alfindeol suggested.
3) Sac Focus - Token/Perist/Undying Route. I used to have a Triad of Fates deck which exiles my own tokens for cards, the same idea could be applied here by -1/-1 your own tokens.
4) Mix Route - include themes from all of above.
Persist (like Furystoke Giant) and Undying creature (like Geralf's Messenger) both benefit from the God, since one dies to draw, the other can come back again and again. Furystoke Giant also allow each wither/infect creature to shoot -1/-1 counters at people.
I like how different this will play from Hapatra while still being on the -1/-1 theme. Since Hapatra generates tokens, she leans towards token synergies or STAX. In this case, I think you're looking more to play a control/punisher deck. The god will make the battlefield very hostile to creatures as long as you can keep mana up.
X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
Flayer of the Hatebound + Everlasting Torment = infinite card draw with The Scorpion God in play, make Flayer deals damage to itself (which are in -1/-1 counters), it dies with a -1/-1 counter on it, so you draw a card, but Flayer immediately comes back, repeat this process until you have enough cards.
EDIT: Rule forum suggests that the loop cannot happen due to Hatehound dying with both type of counters on it before they could cancel each other out.
I feel this card should bare some mentioning since the deck wants to have lots of death triggers going off.
Revel in Riches4B Enchantment (Rare, Ixalan)
Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, create a colorless Treasure artifact token with "T, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool."
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control (ten?) or more Treasures, you win the game.
I feel this card should bare some mentioning since the deck wants to have lots of death triggers going off.
Revel in Riches4B Enchantment (Rare, Ixalan)
Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, create a colorless Treasure artifact token with "T, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool."
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control (ten?) or more Treasures, you win the game.
That's quite a Monopoly card. I haven't looked deep at the Ixalan cards since it's too far away (not to mention the leak was a theft), but I see potential in the card in multi-player game, one Damnation would win the game right there.
Flayer of the Hatebound + Everlasting Torment = infinite card draw with The Scorpion God in play, make Flayer deals damage to itself (which are in -1/-1 counters), it dies with a -1/-1 counter on it, so you draw a card, but Flayer immediately comes back, repeat this process until you have enough cards.
That card...It does not work the way you think it does.
Okay, more to the point, if Flayer does damage to itself, the state-based action is checked, it's 0/-2 and has both a +1/+1 counter and five -1/-1 counters on it at the same time. Since both effects happen at the same time, it goes from being a creature on the battlefield with five -1/-1 counters and one +1/+1 counter to a creature in the graveyard with neither. The game then checks to see if there was a +1/+1 counter on it when it died. Since there was, undying doesn't trigger.
Grim Affliction puts a -1/-1 counter on a creature and brings every creature with a -1/-1 counter on it closer to death.
Private Mod Note
():
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I believe that +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters cancel each other out as a state-based effect, which means that by the time the Undying trigger checks Flayer of the Hatebound on its way to the graveyard, it would see only four -1/-1 counters and no +1/+1 counters. So that combo does work.
(which, I suppose, means that if there were no other creatures than Flayer in play, it would create an unstoppable loop and a game draw, as there is no "may" in the clause. )
EDIT: This post was poorly researched and incorrect. Go on ahead and disregard!
I believe that +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters cancel each other out as a state-based effect, which means that by the time the Undying trigger checks Flayer of the Hatebound on its way to the graveyard, it would see only four -1/-1 counters and no +1/+1 counters. So that combo does work.
(which, I suppose, means that if there were no other creatures than Flayer in play, it would create an unstoppable loop and a game draw, as there is no "may" in the clause. )
This is correct except for the parenthetical part. A +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter remove each other so the flayer would have 4 -1/-1 counters. The parenthetical part is wrong because flayer can target players ending the loop whenever you want.
I believe that +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters cancel each other out as a state-based effect, which means that by the time the Undying trigger checks Flayer of the Hatebound on its way to the graveyard, it would see only four -1/-1 counters and no +1/+1 counters. So that combo does work.
(which, I suppose, means that if there were no other creatures than Flayer in play, it would create an unstoppable loop and a game draw, as there is no "may" in the clause. )
thats assuming that there are no players in the game either of course
I believe that +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters cancel each other out as a state-based effect, which means that by the time the Undying trigger checks Flayer of the Hatebound on its way to the graveyard, it would see only four -1/-1 counters and no +1/+1 counters. So that combo does work.
(which, I suppose, means that if there were no other creatures than Flayer in play, it would create an unstoppable loop and a game draw, as there is no "may" in the clause. )
I will ask in the rule forum about it. No worry about the loop though, Hatehound can damage a player, preferably an opponent. :3
EDIT: The rule forum replied and said it indeed does NOT cause a loop, because the game would see the Hatehound having BOTH type of counters on it at the same time, and because its toughness drops below 0 it dies before the counters could cancel each other out.
HOWEVER, the Hatehound in this case also died with -1/-1 counters on it, so the owner of The Scorpion God can still draw a card. I guess a way to fully utilizes this is to keep Hatehound in play so each Undying creature could draw two cards total upon their deaths. (CONFIRMED)
The God could use its ability to remove the +1/+1 first prior to damage dealt. While this is no infinite, it is a useful information is one needs it to happen in a pinch. (CONFIRMED)
Just checked this on my wife the lvl 3 judge: it works, creating you the ability to draw 'til satisfied. The counters cancel each other as state-based effect. (That said, there is a mild caveat that she had no direct reading of the cards, just me quoting the card text. But I'd think it works.)
On a sidenote, this is why I love EDH. Really obscure and silly interactions that somehow, just, might, work.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
Just checked this on my wife the lvl 3 judge: it works, creating you the ability to draw 'til satisfied. The counters cancel each other as state-based effect. (That said, there is a mild caveat that she had no direct reading of the cards, just me quoting the card text. But I'd think it works.)
On a sidenote, this is why I love EDH. Really obscure and silly interactions that somehow, just, might, work.
Hm, the rule forum suggested otherwise, let me quote them here:
At this time SBA are performed, and the +1 and -1 counters take each other out. But at the same time the flayer is seen as having less than 0 toughness and is put into the graveyard.
Last known stats are used to determine undying and the last time it existed on the battlefield it had both +1 and -1 counters on it, and since it had a +1 counter on it undying won't trigger.
704.3. Whenever a player would get priority (see rule 116, “Timing and Priority”), the game checks for any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions simultaneously as a single event. If any state-based actions are performed as a result of a check, the check is repeated; otherwise all triggered abilities that are waiting to be put on the stack are put on the stack, then the check is repeated. Once no more state-based actions have been performed as the result of a check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, the appropriate player gets priority. This process also occurs during the cleanup step (see rule 514), except that if no state-based actions are performed as the result of the step’s first check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, then no player gets priority and the step ends. #
704.5f If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard. Regeneration can’t replace this event.
704.5r If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it.
704.7. If a state-based action results in a permanent leaving the battlefield at the same time other state-based actions were performed, that permanent’s last known information is derived from the game state before any of those state-based actions were performed.
Okay, that was probably us doing wrong understanding then. Snap judgment was wrong, pretty much; quote from my SO: "The second I saw the rules text, I knew I was wrong earlier. The rules are stupid sometimes."
So yeah, it would not work. Would be awesome, but wouldn't.
(I should really stop asking over-the-shoulder questions from wifey. Things get wrong when it's just "casual" asking of complicated rules messes...)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
"You traitors!"
Anyway...
The Scorpion God
3BR
Legendary Creature - God
6/5
Whenever a creature with -1/-1 counter on it dies, draw a card.
1BR: Put a -1/-1 counter on another target creature.
When the Scorpion God dies, return it to its owner's hand at the beginning of the next end step.
--------------------
Obvious synergy with -1/-1 related cards like Wither, Infect, and Undying, and allow killing your own creatures (including the God himself) net you cards. The deck can be played like Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons, but the addition of red allow cards like Everlasting Torment to be used, makes all direct damage distribute -1/-1 counters.
Flayer of the Hatebound Combo with Everlasting Torment for
infinitedraw by damaging itself when it enters play from graveyard. EDIT: Apparently the loop will not happen, at best one can draw two cards out of this combo. However, The Scorpion God can still add a -1/-1 counter on the Hatehound to remove the +1/+1 first to allow it to "Undying" again.Let's brew!
EDIT: Here is a collective list of suggestions and research.
1 Archfiend of Ifnir
1 Banewhip Punisher
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Blowfly Infestation
1 Blur of Blades
1 Carnifex Demon
1 Consuming Fervor
1 Cultbrand Cinder
1 Fevered Convulsions
1 Grief Tyrant
1 Grim Affliction
1 Grim Poppet
1 Harbinger of Night
1 Hateflayer
1 Hotheaded Giant
1 Incremental Blight
1 Inescapable Brute
1 Lethal Sting
1 Liliana, Death Wielder
1 Liliana's Influence
1 Lockjaw Snapper
1 Midnight Banshee
1 Puncture Blast
1 Puncture Bolt
1 Retribution
1 Shambling Swarm
1 Skinrender
1 Soul Snuffers
1 Soul-Scar Mage
1 Soulstinger
1 Torment of Venom
Infect/Poison
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Corpse Cur
1 Fallen Ferromancer
1 Hand of the Praetors
1 Ichor Rats
1 Ichorclaw Myr
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Necropede
1 Phyrexian Crusader
1 Phyrexian Juggernaut
1 Phyrexian Vatmother
1 Plague Myr
1 Plague Stinger
1 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
1 Whispering Specter
1 Blight Sickle
1 Corrosive Mentor
1 Everlasting Torment
1 Fang Skulkin
1 Fists of the Demigod
1 Glistening Oil
1 Grafted Exoskeleton
1 Phyresis
1 Tainted Strike
Control
1 Crumbling Ashes
1 Fractured Loyalty
1 Kulrath Knight
1 Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
1 Olivia Voldaren
1 Stigma Lasher
Token Generation
1 Bitterblossom
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Nest of Scarabs
1 Ogre Slumlord
1 Ophiomancer
Enemy Token Generation
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Hunted Dragon
1 Hunted Horror
1 Varchild's War-Riders
Persist
1 Cauldron of Souls
1 Furystoke Giant
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Thunderblust
Undying
1 Demonlord of Ashmouth
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Geralf's Messenger
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Undying Evil
Proliferate
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Contagion Engine
1 Core Prowler
1 Spread the Sickness
1 Volt Charge
Sac Outlet
1 Attrition
1 Flesh-Eater Imp
1 High Market
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Shivan Harvest
1 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
1 Chandra's Ignition
1 Hatchet Bully
1 Hour of Devastation
1 Chaos Maw
1 Warstorm Surge
Death Trigger
1 Blood Artist
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Demon of Dark Schemes
1 Deathrender
1 Dicate of Erebos
1 Dingus Staff
1 Dusk Urchins
1 Falkenrath Noble
1 Grave Betrayal
1 Grave pact
1 Harvester of Souls
1 Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 Necroskitter
1 Overseer of the Damned
1 Sangromancer
1 Shadows of the Past
1 Skullclamp
1 Stalking Vengeance
1 Zulaport Cutthroat
Recur
1 Palace Siege
1 Oversold Cemetry
Easy Come Easy Go
1 Bloodghast
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Nether Traitor
Cheat-In
1 Aether Vial
1 Dragon Arch
Discard/Cycling
1 Ruthless Sniper
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Cinderhaze Wretch
Mana
1 Black Market
1 Braid of Fire
Utilities
1 Mirage Mirror
Currently I see The Scorpion God can go a few directions:
1) Creatures - Allow sacrificing your own creatures for cards and additional board influence.
2) Enchantment - Like Mogis, God of Slaughter, emphasize on control, and if going creatureless, can use cards like Repercussion as alfindeol suggested.
3) Sac Focus - Token/Perist/Undying Route. I used to have a Triad of Fates deck which exiles my own tokens for cards, the same idea could be applied here by -1/-1 your own tokens.
4) Mix Route - include themes from all of above.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
soul-scar mage
archfiend of ifnir
nest of scarabs
Corrosive Mentor
Fists of the Demigod
Hateflayer
Kulrath Knight
Necroskitter
Stigma Lasher
Fallen Ferromancer
Phyrexian Crusader
soul snuffers
Contagion Clasp
Contagion Engine
And cards that distribute:
Carnifex Demon
Grim Poppet
Black Sun's Zenith
Consuming Fervor
Fevered Convulsions
Incremental Blight
Persist (like Furystoke Giant) and Undying creature (like Geralf's Messenger) both benefit from the God, since one dies to draw, the other can come back again and again. Furystoke Giant also allow each wither/infect creature to shoot -1/-1 counters at people.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Crumbling Ashes an all star.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
Your creatures could be dying a lot so
dicate of erebos and grave pact
attrition
Fevered Convulsions
black market
Grafted Exoskeleton (even when the god takes it off he bounces back to your hand on the endstep.)
Harbinger of Night hurts your guys, but it could be an option.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
----------------------------
Club Flamingo Wins: 10
----------------------------
EDH Decks
BG Vicious Varolz | RW Jor Kadeen, the Mean Machine | RG Atarka: Muh_Dragons.dec (WIP) | WU Brago, Blink Eternal (WIP)
----------------------------
Gonna add Braid of Fire to the list, inspired by Olivia Voldaren. She probably fits also, if we're giving people Wither and Infect.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
EDIT: Rule forum suggests that the loop cannot happen due to Hatehound dying with both type of counters on it before they could cancel each other out.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
The creature die trigger stuff
Butcher of Malakir draw from -1/-1 countering a 1/1 and forcing opponents to sac
Demon of Dark Schemes hey we are killing their stuff for draw why not use their creatures for are fun
Falkenrath Noble all aboard the damage and lifegain train
Deathrender is the god put back in your hand already let's sac something and cheat him out.
Grave Betrayal more creature stealing yay.
Harvester of Souls who needs the -1/-1 draw just kill something
Liliana, Heretical Healer easy to flip and stealing creatures from graveyards forever
Ob Nixilis, Unshackled I wouldn't tutor if I were you.
Ogre Slumlord more token generation
Overseer of the Damned even more token generation
Sangromancer lifegain on a big stick
Shadows of the Pastlets make sure the correct card is on top
Skullclamp alt route to card draw
Stalking Vengeance the evrlasting torment + Flayer of the hatebound combo is now even faster
Zulaport Cutthroat another fast route with the infinite
Enchantment (Rare, Ixalan)
Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, create a colorless Treasure artifact token with "T, Sacrifice this artifact: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool."
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control (ten?) or more Treasures, you win the game.
That's quite a Monopoly card. I haven't looked deep at the Ixalan cards since it's too far away (not to mention the leak was a theft), but I see potential in the card in multi-player game, one Damnation would win the game right there.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
-Modern-
WMartyrProcB
BBurnR
-Commander-
That card...It does not work the way you think it does.
Okay, more to the point, if Flayer does damage to itself, the state-based action is checked, it's 0/-2 and has both a +1/+1 counter and five -1/-1 counters on it at the same time. Since both effects happen at the same time, it goes from being a creature on the battlefield with five -1/-1 counters and one +1/+1 counter to a creature in the graveyard with neither. The game then checks to see if there was a +1/+1 counter on it when it died. Since there was, undying doesn't trigger.
Grim Affliction puts a -1/-1 counter on a creature and brings every creature with a -1/-1 counter on it closer to death.
On phasing:
(which, I suppose, means that if there were no other creatures than Flayer in play, it would create an unstoppable loop and a game draw, as there is no "may" in the clause. )
EDIT: This post was poorly researched and incorrect. Go on ahead and disregard!
This is correct except for the parenthetical part. A +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter remove each other so the flayer would have 4 -1/-1 counters. The parenthetical part is wrong because flayer can target players ending the loop whenever you want.
thats assuming that there are no players in the game either of course
I will ask in the rule forum about it. No worry about the loop though, Hatehound can damage a player, preferably an opponent. :3
EDIT: The rule forum replied and said it indeed does NOT cause a loop, because the game would see the Hatehound having BOTH type of counters on it at the same time, and because its toughness drops below 0 it dies before the counters could cancel each other out.
HOWEVER, the Hatehound in this case also died with -1/-1 counters on it, so the owner of The Scorpion God can still draw a card. I guess a way to fully utilizes this is to keep Hatehound in play so each Undying creature could draw two cards total upon their deaths. (CONFIRMED)
The God could use its ability to remove the +1/+1 first prior to damage dealt. While this is no infinite, it is a useful information is one needs it to happen in a pinch. (CONFIRMED)
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
On a sidenote, this is why I love EDH. Really obscure and silly interactions that somehow, just, might, work.
Hm, the rule forum suggested otherwise, let me quote them here:
The link to the thread: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/778345-flayer-of-the-hatebound-and-everlasting-torment
And yes, what a great format for all the wackiness to happen, may Gods favor the Judges.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
So yeah, it would not work. Would be awesome, but wouldn't.
(I should really stop asking over-the-shoulder questions from wifey. Things get wrong when it's just "casual" asking of complicated rules messes...)
boil/boiling seas
stench of evil/flashfires
So we can slow down players like those (warning could cause hate.)